Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[Saga Ruby]

Anyone going to be on the North Africa cruise in October? What are the chances that the cruise will actually go to Libya? I'm thinking that it will either go to another port or have an extra day at sea. Any reason to try to get a Libyan visa?

 

For years, cruise ships have attempted a landing at Benghazi (the port of Tripoli). I do not personally know how many cruises have made that port stop, but evidently the ability to set foot on Libyan soil is dependent on whether Muammar K. likes his breakfast that day.

 

If it were me, I would get the visa and assume it would never be used, but what a fine opportunity if the stars align, breakfast is good, and you get to shop in Tripoli. You must tell us if you go and if you get to walk on Libyan sand.

 

Has anyone else has that great pleasure in the past?

 

Ruby

[Conte Di Savoia]

We are getting a bit off topic but this is the Department of State recommendations about travel to Libya.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_951.html

 

I've never been there but would love to see the Roman ruins.

[Saga Ruby]

In 1992, I was on the Island Princess which stopped in Guangzhou on the way to Hong Kong. We were rehearsed onboard the ship by local Chinese authorities on how to pronounce "Thank you" in both Mandarin and Cantonese and were told to stay with our assigned groups and government guides. No one was allowed to mingle with the locals. We also were not allowed to use or keep the local currency.

 

As our ship drifted slowly up the Pearl River toward the port of Whampoa, we passed the ancient style of small Chinese fishing boats constructed with long wooden poles lashed together with rope, squared-off prows, and a tiny wooden cabin perched precariously on the poles, with a lone fisherman’s oar providing the sole propulsion.

 

After arrival at the port, the tour buses loaded up and departed, following the brand-new, single lane ribbon of asphalt road that led into Guangzhou. Although we passed only a few small houses and 2-story "buildings," much construction was underway of tall buildings in which the scaffolding consisted of bamboo instead of steel, while gauzy nets enclosed the new floors as they arose. Large billboards exhorted the local populace to work hard for the betterment of all. Although downtown streets were full of bicycles and buses, there were almost no cars and yet the air pollution was noticeable.

 

Lunch was served at a Guangzhou hotel. The restaurant offered multiple courses to passengers seated at tables of ten. Each course was presented in a single large serving platter which was placed carefully on a large turntable. We were to help ourselves. The turntable would not budge despite many determined efforts so we passed the heavy platters amongst ourselves.

 

After 6 courses, the waitress walked up and made an exclamation as she saw us passing around the serving plates. She reached under the turntable, located the button, and the electric motor whirred to life, causing the serving platform to turn. Each of our places had a button under the edge of the turntable.

 

A bit of time after lunch was spent in line for the ladies’ restroom. There were 20 stalls of which 5 were "western" toilets. There was no line for the "eastern" toilets.

 

Our Guangzhou afternoon was spent at the Children’s Palace enjoying performances by gifted elementary school children who were adorable with their rosy cheeks and lacy dresses and uniforms. Our final stop was, of course, at the Friendship Store gift shop where we were surprised to find that they accepted credit cards. After selecting two eggshell porcelain bowls and waiting in a very long line to pay, we returned to the ship for our final destination of Hong Kong.

 

Do the modern behemoths sail upriver to Guangzhou? I don't know the statistics of draft versus waterway.

 

Ruby

[Druke I]

Virginia and I were in Guangzhou, 11-86, on the little Golden Odyssey, a 10,000 tonner, about half the size of Island Princess.

 

We didn't have as much of an adventure as you, in fact, I think we just took an "overview" bus tour. I do recall when leaving there was a kindergarten class of children that came to see the ship, and serenaded us as we pulled out. They certainly were cute, dressed in native dress and wearing makeup.

 

Just after that (next day or so), on the China Sea and en route to Manila, we tried to outrun the back end of a typhoon. We had green water over the bridge, screws out of the water, and inclinometer pegged. Rough time for about 24 hrs. Not too far from those waters (closer to Okinawa), Halsey's Fleet lost three destroyers to capsizing during a typhoon, closing days of WW2.

[AShipWatcher]

I found this wonderful site which has great pictures of the Saga Rose/Sagafjord throughout her long career.

http://www.simplonpc.co.uk/Sagafjord.html.

 

 

Just jumping in here, finding this thread as a result of a Google search on "Saga Rose."

 

The "Saga Rose" is in the Tanger port, as I type this. I don't know when she arrived as I don't recall seeing her yesterday in the port. The gangway from the stern is still in place, so she isn't going anywhere in the next few minutes.

[AShipWatcher]

Just jumping in here, finding this thread as a result of a Google search on "Saga Rose."

 

The "Saga Rose" is in the Tanger port, as I type this. I don't know when she arrived as I don't recall seeing her yesterday in the port. The gangway from the stern is still in place, so she isn't going anywhere in the next few minutes.

 

1336UTC 22 April, the "Saga Rose" cleared the outer breakwater of the Tanger port and is presently headed westbound.

[Saga Ruby]

As I have mentioned, I sailed out of Galveston in 1979 on the Stella Solaris, a Greek ship which was beautifully decorated with art pieces of sculptures and paintings.

 

Upon disembarkation at the top of the gangway, we walked past the maitre d' who stood straight and proud at the "tip" box. We were to put our gratuities into an envelope and insert it in the box so that, accordingly to Greek maritime union laws, every crew member could share equally in the tips by position filled.

 

I had a $100 bill in my tip envelope so it looked quite meager when I dropped it in the box. The passenger behind me had a huge fat envelope which he made quite a show of stuffing into the box. All of us knew it was full of $1s - who did he think he was kidding? He probably stiffed the crew good while performing his act of pseudo-generosity.

 

I would be interested to hear how tipping was handled in days gone by. My father took care of all those details and now I wonder how it was handled on other classic liners.

 

I have made final payment for my Saga Rose Greenland voyage. I'll be posting when I get back at the end of August. Conte - I shall strive to leave Saga Rose spit-shined and Bristol fashion for your imminent arrival.

 

Ruby

[Conte Di Savoia]

Like you, my dad was in charge of all the tipping. His policy was to start tipping the stewards/stewardesses as soon as we got on board the ship. He felt it was better to make the crew happy up front rather than at the end of the trip. He expected and got the best service that way. I presume the staff was very well satisfied because when they saw our name on the passenger list, they would snatch us up and seat us at their tables.

 

Glad to hear that you have made your final payment. You're really committed now. Our September cruise seems a long way off so we decided to take the four night QM2 cruise over Memorial Day weekend. We got a very good deal and couldn't resist. This one is just for the boat ride.

 

As for the spit 'n polish....Noxon will be sufficient. We don't need to spread any Norovirus!

[Kapricorn]

Hi, to everyone!

 

Thank you very much, Rose, for directing me to this site! I enjoyed reading everything here.

 

I’ve always been interested in ocean liners, whetted by tales related by my Uncle Frank about his yearly transatlantic crossings during the 1920s to 1960s and his frequent cruises up until 1998, when he passed to the Great Ocean Liner Terminal in the Sky at the age of 94. He preferred Italian Line for its southern route to the sunny Mediterranean. In February or March of 1961, my mother, knowing of my enthusiasm about ocean liners, took me to New York City (we lived in Montreal) to see Uncle Frank off on the Leonardo da Vinci. I enjoyed inspecting the Second Class section of the ship.

 

In 1962 I visited the Empress of England in Montreal to say bon voyage to departing relatives. I wrote to steamship companies in New York City asking for brochures and deck plans, and I still have most of them - deck plans for the Stavangerfjord, Bergensfjord & Oslofjord, as well as the Nieuw Amsterdam, Rotterdam, & Liberte. For my 17th birthday on December 31, 1963, my mother took me on a cruise to Nassau. I had first asked a number of steamship companies for cruise brochures, and I still have those for Home Lines’ Italia and “The Fun Ship” Yarmouth (sister ship of the Evangeline, later the ill-fated Yarmouth Castle). We chose American Export’s Atlantic, which was a small but nice ship. I enjoyed my first voyage on a liner.

 

On July 23, 1964, my mother and I embarked on the Empress of Canada in Montreal for a voyage to Greenock. Rose, would that be in or near Liverpool? I still have the passenger list. There were only 59 in First Class (capacity 200) and 520 in Tourist Class (capacity 856). The writing was on the wall for the demise of the transatlantic liner crossings. My father, because of work, flew over and joined us in London a week later, for a tour of Europe, after which we flew home on an Air France 707.

 

The Empress of Britain is still in service as The Topaz (“The Peace Boat”). I was astonished to recognize her last summer in Vancouver (where I live now). She will be here again next Friday the 18th, so I intend to head to the pier and take a few photographs.

 

Regards,

Donald.

[Kapricorn]

Here's a link to what the Empress of Britain looks like now:

 

http://www.cruiselines.us/cruiseline_peaceboat.html

 

I don't understand why the Empress of England was scrapped in 1975, while her sister-ship is still chugging around. What a shame!

 

Rose, I understand that the distinguishing difference between the Empress of Britain and Empress of England was that while the Britain had 2-2-2 windows underneath the bridge, the England had 2-1-2. I didn't know that until I searched the Internet today! I recalled that one of my high school classmates complained to me that her cabin on the Empress of England was too small, and she and her mother "barely had room to move around in." My mother and I were in a Touist Class 4-berth cabin on the Empress of Canada and no-one else was assigned to it, so the two of us were very comfortable in roomy quarters, with our own bathroom.

 

Donald.

[Saga Ruby]

Gosh, thanks for that photo of the Empress of Britain. She's a bit tarted up from my day in 1957 but she still looks great. Color me surprised and relieved that she's not shedding rust all over her hull.

 

You had me laughing. "Uncle Frank" fulfilled my lifelong dream - "when he passed to the Great Ocean Liner Terminal in the Sky at the age of 94." Take out the word "Terminal" and I'm there.

 

Okay, I give up. What is a 2-2-2 and a 2-2-1? And in 1962 when you went for the bon voyage party in Montreal, did y'all throw streamers? I miss that ritual to this day and I miss the porter walking the decks with the xylophone (?) to tell everyone the sheep is leaving.

 

The Yarmouth Castle - what a story and what a tragedy. Gordon Lightfoot had that famous song of "The Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald" but nobody knows that he also wrote the same song and story about the Yarmouth Castle.

 

People, people, people, you've got me blushing with my ignorance of details of classic liners. I thought we sailed on ocean liners to go somewhere in comfort and luxury, I didn't know we were supposed to pay attention to the details! I'm getting quite an education on this thread and my thanks to all of you.

 

Again, welcome to our cozy little corner of the world, Donald.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Ruby, many thanks for your welcome!

 

I didn't even know that Gordon Lightfoot had done a song about the Yarmouth Castle. I'm glad that I learned something new here.

 

Two decks below the bridge on the side of the Empress of Britain are three pairs of windows in a 2-2-2 configuration. You can see these on the link. On the Empress of England it is 2-1-2 - i.e., the middle pair is minus one window. That was how people were able to tell the difference between these two liners.

 

Yes, there were streamers thrown from the Empress of England in 1962, and I threw them from the deck of the Empress of Canada in 1964. I believe that we were also provided with noise-makers? That kind of bon voyage spectacle certainly is memorable.

 

I don't remember if there were streamers when I sailed from NYC in the evening of December 1972 on Incres' Victoria, for a 13-day Eastern Caribbean cruise. I remember, though, that passengers had to go to a lounge to rent deck chairs, and since it was first come-first served, immediately after departure there was a throng of people lining up to snap up the choicest chairs. I was irritated to be missing observing the skyline of NYC as we sailed down the Hudson River, but I peered through the side windows of the lounge in time to see the two World Trade Centre towers loom majestically on the shore. I don't think that they were completed by that time, as there were just a few lights on.

 

If we were to pass to the Great Ocean Liner in the Sky, on which ship would you want to end up? I would like to be on either the Normandie, Rex or Conte di Savoia. I think that these three are among the most beautiful liners to have sailed the seas.

 

Regards,

Donald.

[Kapricorn]

I think that I wasn't too clear about how deck chairs were rented on the Victoria. Immediately after departure, the purser sat at a table in the lounge with a deck plan on which deck lounge chairs were outlined, with a number assigned to each. Passengers who wanted to rent chairs lined up and indicated to the purser which chair they selected. He then crossed off the number of the chair on the deck plan. Sometimes spouses held up the line while they argued over whether to rent chairs in the enclosed promenade or by the side of the outdoor pool. The actual chairs had their numbers engraved on their backs, and for the duration of the voyage those chairs would be the possession of whomever rented them.

 

Was the chair rental procedure different on other ship lines? I recall seeing a 1930s photograph of First Class passengers choosing and sitting on lounge chairs on the top deck of an Italian liner beside the pier in NYC. Other passengers milled around in confusion as they tried to choose whatever seats were still unoccupied. Apparently a crew member would then appear, officially assign the seats to whomever sat on them and collect the rental money.

 

Assigned seats would solve the current widespread problem of "chair hogs" on cruise ships!

 

Donald.

[Saga Ruby]

If we were to pass to the Great Ocean Liner in the Sky, on which ship would you want to end up? I would like to be on either the Normandie, Rex or Conte di Savoia. I think that these three are among the most beautiful liners to have sailed the seas.Regards,

Donald.

 

Oh definitely CGT NORMANDIE. I've heard so much about the ship from all of you and I attended John Maxtone-Graham's lectures about same. Without exception, everyone praises the NORMANDIE on any level you care to name. I'm sorry I missed her brief life upon the seas.

 

I am trying to work out a physics problem. If you accidentally dropped a furled streamer ribbon from the top deck of Project Genesis, would it reach terminal velocity in 8 decks?

 

By the bye, Greenock is the port of Glasgow, as Civitavecchia is the port for Rome. I've been to Glasgow by train but not from Greenock. So many ports, so little time.

 

Donald, I see you truly are ship-daft. You're already booked into 2009? Zowie!

 

To Conte di Savoia - what are your thoughts about "most favorite ship" on which to sail again? Would your namesake be a preference over Donald's choices? Would any of us choose TITANIC minus the icebergs? I would have loved to sail on her.

 

Ruby

[Saga Ruby]

Argh!

[Saga Ruby]

A tip of the hat to Michael "Druke I" for telling me that Greenock is the port of Glasgow. I was all over Scotland for 2 weeks by train and never sailed into any Scottish port, so my port geography leaves a bit to be desired.

 

Which I will remedy in August by sailing to the Orkney Islands, a Scottish port stop on our way back on Saga Rose from Iceland.

 

Thanks, Michael!

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

I found this photograph of my Uncle Frank. Written on the back was "Queen Mary, 1953." He apparently had tea and is relaxing on one of the padded lounge chairs behind the rear funnel. I don't have deck plans of the Queen Mary, but would he have been in the First Class section?

 

Donald.

[Kapricorn]

A mention of water pitchers in cabin bathrooms in one of the earlier posts reminded me of what happened in 1972 on my first night aboard the Victoria. After flying to NYC from Montreal, embarking, renting a deck lounge chair and inspecting the ship, I decided to take a shower before dinner.

 

I locked my cabin door and, for some reason, the bathroom door. After showering, I had just stepped out and picked up the towel when the bathroom door swung open and a female attendant came in with a water pitcher. She had unlocked my bathroom door. We both were shocked. Her mouth was open in a big "O" and her eyes were as wide as saucers, exactly as in this icon: :eek:. She backed out, slammed the door shut and ran off. A few minutes later a male attendant came into my cabin with the water pitcher. The female attendant avoided me for the rest of the 13-day cruise. :o

 

Donald.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

HI GANG!!! HI DONALD!!!

 

I am sitting here rubbing my hands with glee!!! You have a lot of good memories...and I will help you with some...LOL. I was always a big fan of the little VICTORIA...she was a wonderful ship...I used to see her in Boston and everyone I knew who sailed on her loved the VICTORIA. I had to laugh at your shower incident...things like that always happened and now we can look back and chuckle. The water and the ice were always very important factors in cabin comfort. We always made a point of meeting the cabin steward as soon as possible and then arrange the times for water and ice deliveries...LOL.

 

The photo of your Uncle onboard the Queen Mary does look like a First Class section...but I will take a look at one of my QM deck plans from the 1950's and let you know...might take a few days before I get to it...LOL.

 

Tell us more about your cruise on the VICTORIA. She was staffed by all Italian personnel...I have a lot of memorabilia from her and I can say that the VICTORIA was what cruising was all about in those days. She was elegant and intimate with wonderful food and service. I had one good friend of mine who was my attorney back then. He sailed on the VICTORIA and raved about her. He once told me that he sailed from New York on a cruise in the 1960's and that a good friend of his had sent him a case of Dom Perignon onboard the ship!!! He told me that he treated his tablemates to Champagne every night!!! I think that today...a bottle of Dom would go for more than $250 onboard!!! LOL!!! THOSE WERE THE DAYS!!! LOL!!!:D

 

OBTW...Didn't the EMPRESS OF ENGLAND become the QUEEN ANNA MARIA for the Greek Line. I will check that one out.

 

ROSS

[Kapricorn]

Hi, CGTNormandie!

 

I didn't know that the Victoria was well-known back in these days. I went to a travel agent in Vancouver, Canada, and asked to be put on a Caribbean cruise during the winter of 1972. That was how I got to be on the Victoria.

 

I'm amazed that you have lots of memorabilia about the Victoria! Were you ever on her? All I have from her is the brochure with deck plans ("1972 schedule and rates"), the passage ticket, a bon-voyage card from Uncle Frank's partner Charles, and the passenger list.

 

I was in E-80, an inside single-bed cabin at the end of the corridor at the stern. Fare was $715.00 plus a port tax of $4.50. Did they have solo passenger supplements in these days? Embarkation was 4-6:30pm with departure at 7pm.

 

The Dec. 8 thirteen-day itinerary was NYC, St.Croix, Guadeloupe, Barbados, Dominica, St. Maarten, San Juan & back to NYC. I never forgot St. Maarten, because when I was on a tour bus, we passed a guy who did a Michael Jackson grab of his crotch as we passed by. Some welcome!

 

The passenger list is interesting. Oh, why aren't these no longer published? I think that it is a big loss for us! The Victoria had capacity for 600 passengers, but on my voyage there were 408, including 5 from Canada and 3 from Sweden. Of the 400 American passengers, 265 (65%) were from New York, 59 from New Jersey, 28 Pennsylvania, 25 Massachusetts, 11 Connecticut, 3 California, 2 each from CO, DC, MO & NH, and one from Indiana.

 

After embarkation, I was passing the stairs on my deck when I noticed a flurry of motion down the stairs. I thought that it was baggage, but was actually a lady passenger who had tripped at the head of the stairs and tumbled down it. She was still in her fur coat, so it probably prevented her from serious injuries. As she laid there dazed, her hat askew, two or three crewmen rushed to her assistance. Her husband descended the stairs and observed the activity, but did nothing. The crewmen gave me dirty looks (sort of "Hey, what are you looking at?"), so I left the scene. I never knew if the woman stayed on the cruise or had to leave the ship.

 

I met an extraordinarily beautiful young woman - lustrous silky dark hair, flawless compexion and a pearly white smile. She was with her boyfriend or husband. I told her that she looked like a model, and she thanked me for the compliment. I was surprised to notice on the pictures taken by the ship's photographer that she always looked aside and usually had a crooked, stiff smile. I asked her if she was not ready when the photographer took the pictures. She replied that she had never been comfortable in front of a camera. How extraordinary! Such beauty, and such insecurity!

 

One evening we encountered rough weather. The Victoria tossed and turned. I never get seasick, and made my way down the tilting corridors to the dining room. Less than half of the passengers (and probably only 1/4) sat down to dinner. There were only four at my table of eight. The waiters stumbled around with their trays. During dinner, the Victoria climbed an enormous wave. We clutched at the edges of our tables. Up and up we went ... then the ship balanced on the crest of the wave, with the propellers spinning in mid-air and rattling the vessel. Down we went into the trough, and when the propellers finally splashed into water, there was an enormous thump, with the whole ship shaking. All of us in the dining room looked at each other wide-eyed in a "Wow!".

 

I probably have more to say about the Victoria, but I'll take a break for now.:)

 

Regards,

Donald.

[Kapricorn]

OBTW...Didn't the EMPRESS OF ENGLAND become the QUEEN ANNA MARIA for the Greek Line. I will check that one out.

 

ROSS

 

Ross - it was the Empress of Britain who became the Queen Anna Maria. I went to Canada Place this afternoon to see her as the Topaz. She looks amazingly well-preserved, though with signs of rust around some of the windows. Painted over, these are not too visible. I took several photographs and will publish some of these here.

 

First, I met a former co-worker at the office from which I retired two years ago, and brought her with me to Canada Place. The office is only two blocks from there. Knowing that she would not be familiar with ships, I brought with me a Canadian Pacific brochure from the early 1960s with pictures of the three Empresses. She was astonished when she handled it ... "You kept this for fifty years???". Therefore, she was more respectful when she inspected the Topaz than if she had known nothing about her.

 

Donald.

[Kapricorn]

Oops!

[Kapricorn]

Here are four of the photographs which I took of the Topaz yesterday in Vancouver. The 51-year-old ex-Empress of Britain is still in good condition!

 

Donald.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

THANKS DONALD!!! NICE PHOTOS!!!

 

I am going to have to research the EMPRESSES...there is some confusion over which one became the MARDI GRAS. I looked it up online and I know they were incorrect...since they listed the EMPRESS OF BRITAIN as having been the CARNIVALE...which was actually the SS VALE.

 

ROSS

[Kapricorn]

I am going to have to research the EMPRESSES...there is some confusion over which one became the MARDI GRAS

 

Ross -

 

The Empress of Canada became the Mardi Gras. I was on the Carnival Spirit two years ago and attended a presentation on the history of Carnival. They showed a picture of the Mardi Gras as their first ship, and I recognized her as the former Empress of Canada.

 

Glad that you liked the pictures of the ex-Empress of Britain.

 

Donald.