Tipping

[pnhmrk]

Why is there this service charge?

 

Should there be any charge other than the cost of the holiday? If you go to the shop and buy a can of peas you pay for that can, that charge includes the bag to take it home in, for the wages for the person who serves you, for the cost of heating and lighting the shop, for someone to have noticed that the supply of canned peas is getting low and to have reordered more, etc. You do not pay for each of these items separately. Why is the hospitality industry different?

[smeyer418]

The term is used on the ship.

 

To suggest that to call a woman a girl is racist is just childish. It may be demeaning, but it isn't racist.

 

Matthew

No, its Racist. my exact quote was "In the US it is considered racist to call a man or woman boy or girl.".. You are telling someone they are not a person but a child. It originally started with calling blacks in the US boy or girl. I was being nice when I said it was obsolete. It is racist. If the SHIP is using it they are racist too. You really should get a new name. Kindlychap is inappropriate for you to respond when you really don't understand or care.

They in the US Navy stopped calling them mess boys a long time ago. Since you don't talk to them you are free to grunt.

[smeyer418]

I personally prefer included tipping or at least service charges in lieu of tipping. Tipping grew up when people were not paid an appropriate wage or where the owners decided they would count what the person gets as tip as part of the wage. It is the custom on cruise ships. Unfortunately if it becomes included in the cruise fare you will pay more than the amount that is collected on the ship for service charges and almost totally distributed to the crew(there has been no report that it is NOT distributed to the crew). When the home office collects it, they will add the normal overhead cost to the amount collected, they will also add profit as it is now an item that will show up on their account sheets. So in order to distribute 1 euro to the the people on the ship, they will need to collect no less than 1.25 e's, if not significantly more.

[pnhmrk]

No, its Racist. my exact quote was "In the US it is considered racist to call a man or woman boy or girl.

 

In the US? I am not in the US. Matthew is not in the US. A vast percentage of the world's population are not in the US. We cannot therefore be governed by the conventions used in the US.

 

When the home office collects it, they will add the normal overhead cost to the amount collected, they will also add profit as it is now an item that will show up on their account sheets. So in order to distribute 1 euro to the the people on the ship, they will need to collect no less than 1.25 e's, if not significantly more.

 

What is true is that tips given directly to the member of staff are not subject to a sales tax; they should still be subject to income tax (unless the crew member falls into an exempt category) but I doubt (although I've no proof) that the full amount of tax is paid. If a fare is made to be inclusive of service then both sales and income tax are paid on the full amount. Is that wrong though? Should we be encouraging cruise lines to avoid the law?

[mufi]

No, its Racist. my exact quote was "In the US it is considered racist to call a man or woman boy or girl.".. You are telling someone they are not a person but a child. It originally started with calling blacks in the US boy or girl. I was being nice when I said it was obsolete. It is racist. If the SHIP is using it they are racist too. You really should get a new name. Kindlychap is inappropriate for you to respond when you really don't understand or care.

They in the US Navy stopped calling them mess boys a long time ago. Since you don't talk to them you are free to grunt.

 

You may think it is insulting, but I can't see how age or gender can have anything to do with race.

 

If you go to the south west corner of England you are quite likely to be greeted as "my lover" (sounds best with a Cornish accent) Dont know how you would cope with that.

 

David.

[paulista1950]

"If you go to the shop and buy a can of peas you pay for that can, that charge includes the bag to take it home in, for the wages for the person who serves you, for the cost of heating and lighting the shop, for someone to have noticed that the supply of canned peas is getting low and to have reordered more, etc. You do not pay for each of these items separately. Why is the hospitality industry different? "

 

I don't want to get into the fight, so please consider it just a curiousity: here in Brazil if you refer to a group of women as girls, like in "where are the girls going to have lunch?" it's very well received, sort of a compliment.

[smeyer418]

You may think it is insulting, but I can't see how age or gender can have anything to do with race.

 

If you go to the south west corner of England you are quite likely to be greeted as "my lover" (sounds best with a Cornish accent) Dont know how you would cope with that.

 

David.

 

 

if you intentional demean someone by calling them a "boy or girl" when they are a man or woman you don't see that as racist? My first post said it was obsolete because I didn't want to get into this. I would be careful calling an American Black "boy" in England. The reason that you don't see it as racist is that it wasn't you being called "boy"....calling someone my lover wouldn't bother me, since I probably couldn't understand what you said anyway...

 

From Wilipedia

 

Historically, in countries such as the U.S. and South Africa, "boy" was not only a 'neutral' term for domestics but also used as a disparaging racist insult towards non-white males (especially of African descent), recalling their subservient status even after the 20th century legal emancipation (from slavery, evolved to race segregation, viz. Apartheid) and alleged infantility, and many still consider it offensive in that context to this day.

[pnhmrk]

"Where are the girls going to have lunch?" it's very well received, sort of a compliment.

 

The same in the UK - My mother (80 ish) refers to her college friends as "The girls".

[smeyer418]

The same in the UK - My mother (80 ish) refers to her college friends as "The girls".

Yes but I doubt she was saying "the washroom girls" when she was referring to her friends....

[stowaway2k]

"Man is the only animal that blushes. Or needs to."

Mark Twain

[Anteeta]

'England and America are two countries divided by a common language'

George Bernard Shaw.

 

A black middle aged male friend of mine says he doesn't mind the word being feferred to as 'boy' per se, but it depends on context. He would prefer not to be 'one of the boys' if it was a reference to sexuality, only because he's straight and such reference would be factually incorrect. But he's quite happy with 'the boys are going for a quick one before dinner' . This he considers to be clearly a manly reference to a a few large snifters whilst 'the girls' do the cooking and talk tripe.:)

[smeyer418]

'England and America are two countries divided by a common language'

George Bernard Shaw.

 

A black middle aged male friend of mine says he doesn't mind the word being feferred to as 'boy' per se, but it depends on context. He would prefer not to be 'one of the boys' if it was a reference to sexuality, only because he's straight and such reference would be factually incorrect. But he's quite happy with 'the boys are going for a quick one before dinner' . This he considers to be clearly a manly reference to a a few large snifters whilst 'the girls' do the cooking and talk tripe.:)

I agree its clearly the context. Baden-Powell wouldn't mind being called boy as in boy scout. But I doubt that your friend would appreciate if the next time he is over and you ask " would you mind cleaning the bathroom-boy".

Boy or girl in the context of a bathroom boy or girl is racist as described above. Going out with the boys or girls has nothing to do with a serville relationship and I will continue to tip the bathroom attendant and even sometimes talk with them....

have we beaten a dead horse enough?

[Kindlychap]

Mystery post.

[stowaway2k]

I'll vouch for Matthew.

He's a chap. He's kindly.

He's Kindlychap. :)

[travel-to-go]

I'll vouch for Matthew.

He's a chap. He's kindly.

He's Kindlychap. :)

 

But is he a boy?

Or is he a man?

:rolleyes::confused:

[pepperrn]

I might be alone here but whenever I'm in an hotel, restaurant or on a ship, in the "gents" I always use a paper towel on the door handle to open the door. Indeed, on QM2, there was a bin just inside the door in every gents I saw so that I could open it, dispose of the towel and exit. Why sanitise your hands and then touch every germ laden object in sight?

 

"Good heavens - he'll be expecting conversation soon. And that really is appalling.....

 

Matthew"

 

(Only in movies do men hold conversations in there, in real life it's as quite as a tomb. However, unlike Matthew, if a bathroom attendant did speak to me (maybe to ask a relevant question or to be polite) I wouldn't be such a snob and feel that they were beneath me and undeserving of a reply. A sign of a true gentleman or lady is that he/she treats everyone equally, royalty or cleaner, treat everyone as you would wish to be treated. Only insecure "new money" classes look down on people as if they've something to "prove", mainly to themselves.)

[Kindlychap]

But is he a boy?

Or is he a man?

:rolleyes::confused:

 

He's a chap. ;)

 

Matthew

[travel-to-go]

but Karie, wouldn't you have to tip before he\she did all these things for you - otherwise you would be touching that dirty money with your nice clean hands :eek: :D ;)

 

Karen

 

Hmm, good point! I missed this one. Maybe I could hold the bills in my teeth?

 

:p

 

They don't call it filthy lucre for nothing! Maybe we should all also ban the handling of money!

 

:rolleyes:

[Kindlychap]

(Only in movies do men hold conversations in there, in real life it's as quite as a tomb. However, unlike Matthew, if a bathroom attendant did speak to me (maybe to ask a relevant question or to be polite) I wouldn't be such a snob and feel that they were beneath me and undeserving of a reply. A sign of a true gentleman or lady is that he/she treats everyone equally, royalty or cleaner, treat everyone as you would wish to be treated. Only insecure "new money" classes look down on people as if they've something to "prove", mainly to themselves.)

 

Would you be kind enough to point me to where I said that I would not speak to him?

 

I think you are reading rather more into what I have said that was ever there.

 

Matthew

[pepperrn]

Would you be kind enough to point me to where I said that I would not speak to him?

 

Matthew

 

"Good heavens - he'll be expecting conversation soon. And that really is appalling.....

 

Matthew"

 

I thought I had.

[patwell]

Going back to the land based toilet attendant, I can actually turn a tap on myself - and prefer to do so. A toilet attendant is there to keep it clean, and NO MORE.

 

Good heavens - he'll be expecting conversation soon. And that really is appalling.....

 

Matthew

 

Yes sir, Pepper....that would be how I'd read a statement like that too....

 

Cheers, Penny...whose parents brought her up to practice "the golden rule"...which says, do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. I think it has something to do with treating everyone with respect.

[Kindlychap]

Yes sir, Pepper....that would be how I'd read a statement like that too....

 

Cheers, Penny...whose parents brought her up to practice "the golden rule"...which says, do unto others as you'd have them do unto you. I think it has something to do with treating everyone with respect.

 

 

I'm not quite sure how you read it that way, when it actually says something different. Perhaps you are trying to make it say what it doesn't?

 

Matthew

[travel-to-go]

I'm not quite sure how you read it that way, when it actually says something different. Perhaps you are trying to make it say what it doesn't?

 

Matthew

Perhaps the other "choice" is:

"Next he'll be wanting conversation, flowers, dinner and drinks!:

 

Well, if the shoe fits...:rolleyes:

[patwell]

I'm not quite sure how you read it that way, when it actually says something different. Perhaps you are trying to make it say what it doesn't?

 

Matthew

 

:confused: :confused: :confused:

 

Penny

[patwell]

Perhaps the other "choice" is:

"Next he'll be wanting conversation, flowers, dinner and drinks!:

 

Well, if the shoe fits...:rolleyes:

 

AMEN!!!!! I rest my case!:rolleyes:

Cheers, Penny