Tourists with MINOR criminal records being turned back at Canadian border

[Ephraim]

Funny, the US apparently has a problem letting people with living with HIV into their country, even to visit, I think that IS shocking .,

 

Actually, that is true, you need a special visa if you are HIV+. And the US is one of the few (or is it the only?) Western countries with that rule.

 

Maybe when it affects the tourism dollars for both countries the procedure will change.:confused:

 

Unfortunately, that would require a major change in the US Administration. Canada has been asking for a compromise for a long time only to be turned down. One member of congress even suggested that the US should build the world's longest wall between the countries, proving that there are major misunderstandings between the two countries.

 

The previous Canadian government had proposed that minor drug offences be moved to a simply fine, like a traffic ticket, with no criminal record. The US Administration was very vocal in their objections to this.

 

Today, the US embassador to Canada announced that despite Congress' postponement of the requirement to present passports at land borders, they are going to require it sooner. It was originally set for 1 January 2008 and then postponed for 1 June 2009. The major loser in this is actually American border towns and American hot spots. American border towns will lose the day trips, because few people will bother to purchase an expensive passport for a simple day trip. The hot spots (like Florida) will lose because many people are expected to go further south, like Cuba, Mexico and the Domincan Republic, because they already have their passports. With all the border taxes on flights it's often the same price to fly to Europe as it is to fly to the US (and sometimes cheaper). I have already seen that some European vacation spots have increased their advertising to get Canadian visitors.

 

Also, today the US for the first time agreed on looking at alternatives to a passport including a beefed up driver's licence. Why are they looking at proposals finally? Because Washington State and New York State have been frantically asking, realizing the doom that day traffic (including overnight traffic) is going to cause them.

 

Here's an article from the Albany Times-Union entitled: Passport requirement could be a one-way ticket to disaster. Though, I have to admit that his statistics may be flawed. Current estimates are than 40% (or more) of Canadians own passports. The number of Americans seems to be in the range of 20%, though there appears to be no official number (they just have a page indicating how many passports they have issued, which doesn't really mean anything, because you can't tell how many are renewal/replacement versus new, or how many have expired.)

 

Incidentally, a 5 year passport in Canada cost $87 for a 24 page passport ($32 for children 3 to 15 and $22 for children under 3.) US passports are good for 10 years and are $97 for adults and $82 for children under 16. Both prices are considered prohibitively expensive for a family to do a day or overnight trip to the other country.

[alphakitty]

I posted earlier that most don't even check my passport when crossing the border, but after reading more and more, it seems that there is more checking going on very recently. You would think common sense would impose a statute of limitations on this. Someone convicted of a criminal offense 20 or 30 years ago, without any problems since should not be turned away at any border. Looks like I'm never going to Canada again....because of a minor thing that happened over 30 years ago when I was barely 18! How ridiculous is that??? I did look at the paperwork involved to claim rehabilitation, but that seems too complicated and too expensive to even consider it. Oh well...no more Canada for me!

[Ephraim]

I posted earlier that most don't even check my passport when crossing the border, but after reading more and more, it seems that there is more checking going on very recently. You would think common sense would impose a statute of limitations on this. Someone convicted of a criminal offense 20 or 30 years ago, without any problems since should not be turned away at any border. Looks like I'm never going to Canada again....because of a minor thing that happened over 30 years ago when I was barely 18! How ridiculous is that??? I did look at the paperwork involved to claim rehabilitation, but that seems too complicated and too expensive to even consider it. Oh well...no more Canada for me!

 

The rules are the SAME in both countries. Don't rely on the information here. Check your record. Get your official pardon. Talk to Customs and Immigration or the closest embassy. Get informed, be empowered. They might not even need the paperwork, but you won't know unless you ask.

 

You are going to start to find out that it's more and more limiting and you won't be able to get into Western Europe next.

[dreamerdick]

Since both the US and Canada, normally congenial neighbors, have the same rules on travel admittance - it is likely many other countries will want to follow suit and have access to the same two databases. What might be nice, since the data bases are supposedly accurate, is to have a travel insurance company check your record and then insure you against the unlikely instance you are refused admittance to a country and your trip plans are terminated. The travel insurance company would have a client/privilege relationship so your data would not be compromised, you would be protected and they would in fact be ahead a small premium for their coverage. Any ideas?

[Ephraim]

An interesting article in Law Times says:

 

The post-Sept. 11 era of tighter security at Canada’s border and within the United States is generating considerable angst for people ranging from those who travel regularly for business to refugees facing peril in their homeland.

 

and

 

“Now that passports are the norm, and in light of recent technological changes enabling a quick background check via passport scan, we have noticed a steep increase in calls from business or regular travellers who have been refused entry to either Canada or the U.S. due to previous criminal convictions,” says Matthews. In many cases, these individuals have been travelling back and forth across the border for years without issue.

 

I have linked the article for those interested in reading it.

 

Travel Weekly also had an article:

 

So far, however, U.S. travel officials contacted by Travel Weekly haven't seen any dragnet, and Chris Williams, a spokesperson for the Canada Border Services Agency, told Travel Weekly that the rules of entry have been in place 20 years, and that the protocol for enforcement has not changed.

 

and

 

He added that a program of increased cooperation with U.S. Homeland Security, known as the Smart Border Action Plan, was instituted in 2002. As part of that arrangement, the agency adopted a system called the Advance Passenger Information/Passenger Name Record program, which "collects and analyzes information on air travelers destined for Canada in order to identify persons who may pose a safety and security risk."

 

But he said that the agency's statistics show "no noticeable difference" in the number of people being refused entry. U.S. tourism professionals said the same thing.

 

and

 

Richard Webster, vice president of government affairs for the Travel Industry Association, told Travel Weekly that he has not seen a change, either. "I do not believe that there has been any stepped-up enforcement," he said.

 

Again, original links, but registration is needed for this article. There was also a quote from someone at Holland-America reporting no noticeable changed either.

[kerrydee]

would that not be because (as cruisers), the alaska season has not started yet? it will be interesting to see what happens after may when pax start going through canada.

i don't want to alarm my clients unnecessarily but i don't want a problem if it exists.

[nosmothj]

This is becoming ridiculous. The USA has been denying entry for years. Canada is forced to do the same because of USA pressure to tighten up our boarders. You must remember US government has stated Canadian boarders are to porous and must be tightened up. Now that they are USA residents are unhappy.

 

Take it up with your own government!!!!! They are the ones pushing the changes!

[Ephraim]

would that not be because (as cruisers), the alaska season has not started yet? it will be interesting to see what happens after may when pax start going through canada.

i don't want to alarm my clients unnecessarily but i don't want a problem if it exists.

 

So, you think Americans only come to Canada to go to Alaska? Cruising is a very small percentage of visitors to Canada. Millions of people come to Canada each year for many reasons, from beaches to Skiing and Eco-tourism. The comparisons would have to be done versus the same month in the previous year. Over 50% of all American visitors to Canada arrive by car.

 

The reality here is that the US doesn't kowtow to Canada and Canada won't kowtow to the US (and that is how it should be, we are independent countries, after all).

 

Frankly, the percentage of Americans that have criminal records that would keep them out of Canada is low (just as the percentage of Canadians kept out of the US). This is obviously being blown out of proportion. Most people don't have a thing to worry about. And those with criminal records should take heed and clean up their records and do what needs to be done.

[kerrydee]

is on a site called CRUISE critic, and i am a cruise only agent.

therfore....yes, cruises.;)

[RBOrrell]

I have no problem with either country doing this, the problem I have is that unless you stumble upon the information you could be in a real jam when trying to enter the country for your vacation. Obviously this law is not widely known (at least not in the US) and I think it behooves the cruiselines to at a minimum add a blurb about it to all of it's cruise passengers leaving through Canada.

 

But I want to say again, I have no issue with Canada enforcing the law. It is your country and you have every right to make and enforce any law you want, I just think it would make sense to make sure tourists are aware of it :o

 

In both Canadian and US law, there is a phrase "Ignorance of the law is no excuse". It is up to the traveller to know what the laws of the country that they are travelling to are. I do not hold the cruiseline, airline or any other carrier responsible for that.

[maitlandcruisers]

In both Canadian and US law, there is a phrase "Ignorance of the law is no excuse". It is up to the traveller to know what the laws of the country that they are travelling to are. I do not hold the cruiseline, airline or any other carrier responsible for that.

 

 

As a consumer I have right to hold anybody I do business respondsible with for what ever I want. If this is a likely occurence and the cruise line did not tell me somewere on their website or literture about it and I was affected by it. I would not likely do business with them again.

 

See below - this is from NORTH WESTERN ONTARIO TOURISM ASSOCIATION

 

BORDER ISSUE

Mr Ken Boshcoff, MP Rainy River-Thunder Bay, has called a meeting, in mid June, on the Minor Criminality issue (DWI). He has invited MP Anne McLellan, MP Andy Mitchell, MP Colette Regan, MP Geoff Regan, MP David Emerson and MP Roger Valley. (More to follow) KDCA and NWOTA have sent Ken letter on this issue asking for his help.

The minor Criminality issue is probably the single most costly issue our members are facing. This is because we are so heavily dependent on the US traveler.

Here is some economic impact information on the issue.

• Reported loss/business responding to our (NWOTA/KDCA/NOTO) survey,

o 2001 $ 5,649.

o 2003 $13,879.

o 2004 $15,488.

• This does not come close to identifying the true economic impact of the issue. Those returned home from the Canadian border are telling others and problem mushrooms.

• Losses in 2004 negatively impacted the GDP associated with tourism industry in Sunset Country by $14 million dollars. That represents 429 jobs lost in Sunset Country 2004.

The Government of Canada is doing a very poor job of informing travelers of this issue. It is terribly wrong for those wishing to visit Canada not to have been informed of this issue. To be identified (in some cases in front of their friends) as having a criminal record and refused entry into Canada and turned back, can be a very embarrassing situation. Governments collectively spend millions to getting visitors here, yet tell them nothing about the minor criminality issue that could put them in an embarrassing position.

[RBOrrell]

As a consumer I have right to hold anybody I do business respondsible with for what ever I want. If this is a likely occurence and the cruise line did not tell me somewere on their website or literture about it and I was affected by it. I would not likely do business with them again.

 

See below - this is from NORTH WESTERN ONTARIO TOURISM ASSOCIATION

 

BORDER ISSUE

Mr Ken Boshcoff, MP Rainy River-Thunder Bay, has called a meeting, in mid June, on the Minor Criminality issue (DWI). He has invited MP Anne McLellan, MP Andy Mitchell, MP Colette Regan, MP Geoff Regan, MP David Emerson and MP Roger Valley. (More to follow) KDCA and NWOTA have sent Ken letter on this issue asking for his help.

The minor Criminality issue is probably the single most costly issue our members are facing. This is because we are so heavily dependent on the US traveler.

Here is some economic impact information on the issue.

• Reported loss/business responding to our (NWOTA/KDCA/NOTO) survey,

o 2001 $ 5,649.

o 2003 $13,879.

o 2004 $15,488.

• This does not come close to identifying the true economic impact of the issue. Those returned home from the Canadian border are telling others and problem mushrooms.

• Losses in 2004 negatively impacted the GDP associated with tourism industry in Sunset Country by $14 million dollars. That represents 429 jobs lost in Sunset Country 2004.

The Government of Canada is doing a very poor job of informing travelers of this issue. It is terribly wrong for those wishing to visit Canada not to have been informed of this issue. To be identified (in some cases in front of their friends) as having a criminal record and refused entry into Canada and turned back, can be a very embarrassing situation. Governments collectively spend millions to getting visitors here, yet tell them nothing about the minor criminality issue that could put them in an embarrassing position.

 

If you feel you can hold anyone you do business with responsible for anything, I feel sorry for anyone that you do business with. Ultimately you are responsible for your own destiny. If you think that RCCL or American Airlines will take you by the hand and deliver you to where-ever just because you are paying them, that is sad.

 

The list of MPs that the NWOTA is getting together is impressive - not! Only David Emerison is a sitting Conservative. Boshcoff, Geoff Regan and Valley are opposition Liberals. Mclelland and Mitchell are not members of the current house and I don't know who Colette Regan is. The point is, they will have zero clout going to the Government on this. First of all, it is the US Government that is forcing the tightening up of our borders because we let terrorests in! This group will have the same effect as border state/province governments agreeing to allow driver licenses as the form of ID - it's not their ballywick!

 

These topics really make me mad. Canadians have been living with the strict rules for entry into the US for years - it is a fact of life. Now the tables are turned and they cry foul.

[maitlandcruisers]

If you feel you can hold anyone you do business with responsible for anything, I feel sorry for anyone that you do business with. Ultimately you are responsible for your own destiny. If you think that RCCL or American Airlines will take you by the hand and deliver you to where-ever just because you are paying them, that is sad.

 

The list of MPs that the NWOTA is getting together is impressive - not! Only David Emerison is a sitting Conservative. Boshcoff, Geoff Regan and Valley are opposition Liberals. Mclelland and Mitchell are not members of the current house and I don't know who Colette Regan is. The point is, they will have zero clout going to the Government on this. First of all, it is the US Government that is forcing the tightening up of our borders because we let terrorests in! This group will have the same effect as border state/province governments agreeing to allow driver licenses as the form of ID - it's not their ballywick!

 

These topics really make me mad. Canadians have been living with the strict rules for entry into the US for years - it is a fact of life. Now the tables are turned and they cry foul.

 

We are pretty sensitive aren't we. Nobody here stated the US was doing this right either. I guess as an American I m used to getting ripped to shreds by ppl from other countries.

[dancingfish]

As you try and debate the politics of two nations you are missing the point. I am a 40+ year old woman, who applied for a passport, went to a travel agent, paid for a cruise through a cruise line, researched a well earned anniversary trip and NEVER once did anyone whisper anything about this. If I hadn't stumbled upon this on a message board I would have never known... Now with 2 1/2 months to travel I have to worry about an infraction that happened in my life 25 YES 25 years ago?????

This is an issue--My Passport should have come with a warning--- My travel agent should have mentioned it... My cruise line should have printed it...

 

I have tried to contact Canadian offices, and have gotten message machines, I have read the Canadian websites and they say I may be considered rehabilitated-- May be??? I have no problem following whatever rules a country has in place. But how to follow a rule that no one seems to have information about?

I have tried contacting my local/state police departments... no help there. Although I have requested a criminal record check so I can prove I have not had so much as a speeding ticket in 25 years.

I believe we are asking a bit much from an unseasoned traveler to know all the ins and outs of every country!

[LeftcoastBC]

As you try and debate the politics of two nations you are missing the point.

Some are I suppose and perhaps you are also.

 

This is an issue--My Passport should have come with a warning--- My travel agent should have mentioned it... My cruise line should have printed it...

 

Maybe your TA is one that is not up on your Homeland Security issues and should have mentioned it.

 

Passports have nothing to do with how bad you were or are just WHO you are.

 

Maybe the cruiselines should mention it.

I have tried to contact Canadian offices, and have gotten message machines, I have read the Canadian websites and they say I may be considered rehabilitated-- May be???

 

YEP that's it unless you follow the instructions there about how to get pre-clearance.

 

If you are travelling in a group or part of a family you likely won't even get asked unless it was something really bad. Only you know that.

 

I believe we are asking a bit much from an unseasoned traveler to know all the ins and outs of every country!

Just the country's you are trying to get into. It's your responsibility.

Good Luck

[RBOrrell]

As you try and debate the politics of two nations you are missing the point.

 

It's not a question of debating the politics. The problem that you have now is that a foreign country that you are trying to enter has determined that it must filter out undesirable people and prevent them from entering the country. Lot's of countries do this, your's included.

 

I am a 40+ year old woman, who applied for a passport, went to a travel agent, paid for a cruise through a cruise line, researched a well earned anniversary trip and NEVER once did anyone whisper anything about this.

 

A passport is no guarentee that you are safe to enter a foreign country. It simply a form of identification issued by your country that guarentees who you are!

 

If I hadn't stumbled upon this on a message board I would have never known... Now with 2 1/2 months to travel I have to worry about an infraction that happened in my life 25 YES 25 years ago?????

 

I don't know what you did, perhaps you can elaborate. Clearly it was significant enough that you are worried.

 

This is an issue--My Passport should have come with a warning--- My travel agent should have mentioned it... My cruise line should have printed it...

 

Again the passport is ID to prove who you are. You are the one that is travelling - you can have the passport and never leave the country. The Canadian Government has a web site that lists countries with problems that Canadians should be aware of. Does the US Government not offer such information. The cruise line assumes that you have all of your affairs and documents in order. They are not the police in this. I do not hold them accountable for this at all. As a courtesy, I would have hoped that your travel agent made mention of entry procedures. If he/she did not know, I would be concerned about their reliability. But again, they may have no reason to bring it up if you are not a criminal.

 

I have tried to contact Canadian offices, and have gotten message machines, Did you leave a message? I have read the Canadian websites and they say I may be considered rehabilitated-- May be??? Have you looked into this? I have no problem following whatever rules a country has in place. But how to follow a rule that no one seems to have information about? Clearly you need to speak to the local Canadian Consulate.

 

I have tried contacting my local/state police departments... Would they know about Canadian laws? no help there. Although I have requested a criminal record check so I can prove I have not had so much as a speeding ticket in 25 years.

 

I believe we are asking a bit much from an unseasoned traveler to know all the ins and outs of every country! Actually, I disagree. You have to take responsibilty for this yourself.

 

I hate to shoud harsh but I cannot believe that you actually feel that this should be handed to you. When I travel to another country, I review all of the issues that I need to. I want to make sure that I can get there and back and while I am there that I know enough to deal with issues. Maybe because we have always been in the shadow of the US in the past and we had to deal with this all of the time.

[Lady Jane]

We'll be on a transatlantic cruise in September that stops in Canada before returning to Port Liberty in NJ. My husband has a minor infraction from 15+ years ago, so he contacted (via email) the Canadian Consulate giving them full details and asking if he would qualify as "Deemed Rehabilitated." Their answer was a link to the website that explains you might be permitted entry if you are "deemed rehabilitated" but you can't get this designation ahead of time. It's not worth the expense of getting the official clearance (which requires a ton of paperwork and can cost anywhere from $200 to $1000). So contacting the consulate didn't do any good -- you just get a "non-answer."

We just won't book any shore excursions, and if they say "stay on the ship" we'll stay on the ship.

[nosmothj]

If you have a past record (in Canada) you can apply to Pardons Canada and they can get most records cleared off. The cost is about $600 and can take up to a year to clear.

 

I understand the same type of thing is in the US. I understand the cost is a little high and it takes a while. But lets face it our past mistakes are ours to deal with.

 

All countries have the same policy about people entering with a record or charge against you. It is becoming more of an issue now with new passports that have the coding bar. It enables customs to access all records. If travelling by car and just have photo ID it is not as in depth a search.

 

Regardless everyone will need a passport in a few years and if you have any charges or a record it could stop you from entering another country. Or even give you problems outside of the country if it is picked up then.

[LeftcoastBC]

RE Pardon In Canada

 

It will help you only after you answer the Qestion.

Do you have a criminal Record? That answer will always be yes.... Regardless of a Pardon.

 

To gain confirmed access to another country with a bleamish on your record you need to get pre clearance from THAT country. If it is a concern to you go to That country's Consul or information site.

 

That being said if you do get a pardon it should help a lot at the border. But it still depends on the boarder personnel

[nosmothj]

RE Pardon In Canada

 

It will help you only after you answer the Qestion.

Do you have a criminal Record? That answer will always be yes.... Regardless of a Pardon.

 

To gain confirmed access to another country with a bleamish on your record you need to get pre clearance from THAT country. If it is a concern to you go to That country's Consul or information site.

 

That being said if you do get a pardon it should help a lot at the border. But it still depends on the boarder personnel

 

 

Sorry, but speaking from experience in this matter Pardons Canada can get your record cleared. After the process is complete you can go to any police station and request a copy of your criminal records check. It will tell you if all information has been destroyed.

 

That includes fingerprints and photos.

[LeftcoastBC]

Sorry, but speaking from experience in this matter Pardons Canada can get your record cleared. After the process is complete you can go to any police station and request a copy of your criminal records check. It will tell you if all information has been destroyed.

 

That includes fingerprints and photos.

 

Sorry but speaking from experience in this matter, Pardons Canada gives you a pardon. We can agree on that right?

You still have the criminal record. You did it !!you got it. !! You always will.!! It can be found.

Answer the question incorrectly and get caught in the lie. You are toast.

 

It will still depend on the Border personell and where they get their information from if they can catch you in that lie. Feel like playing roulette?

 

I'm off the soap box :)

[nosmothj]

Having a brother who works for CSIS and regularly doing criminal checks for employment the person record does appear clear.

As Roger (My brother) put it no flags will be raised. That is the point of having the criminal records destroyed.

 

However I do get you point that someplace someone could dig it up. As far as crossing broad nothing will come up.

 

Now I will get off of my soap box.

[wanderingjew]

What would happen if i board a cruise in la and disembark in vancouver and i had a minor infraction would they not let me off the ship ?

 

my last land tour i was detained but only because my passport had a lot of items stamped

[BKLYNPONY]

If you received a summons or a fine for an offense does that mean you have a record and can be deemed inadmissable? Or do you have to be fingerprinted in order to have a record?

[LeftcoastBC]

What would happen if i board a cruise in la and disembark in vancouver and i had a minor infraction would they not let me off the ship ?

my last land tour i was detained but only because my passport had a lot of items stamped

I believe they would get you straight through to the US side of the airport somehow and send you on your way unless there was some other interest here.

 

If you received a summons or a fine for an offense does that mean you have a record and can be deemed inadmissable? Or do you have to be fingerprinted in order to have a record?

Generally speaking a criminal record is an offence for which you were fingerprinted and photographed but sometimes "Something odd" might make you an undesirable also and show up in records.