How Can Atlantis Sell Their Rio Cruise

[amusea]

Although I have paid my deposit on the Atlantis Rio Carnival cruise and also have my flights, travel insurance, hotels and Carnival ticket order (placed through Atlantis) all paid or reserved, my nagging doubts about this cruise have returned. The main reasons are twofold - the pre-cruise package in Sao Paolo and the corresponding flight to Rio on the day of embarkation which was in the "planning stage" has been removed from their site. Now it just states "TBA". Secondly, the offer of tickets to the Sambadrome is no longer found on their site - at least for the present. I realize this has been a slow selling cruise. Luckily for Atlantis the Mexican Riviera and Liberty Caribbean cruises are sold out. But how can they attract new customers to the Rio cruise without any ticket offer to the Sambadrome and without any guaranty of pre-cruise hotel? Also, there has been almost no indication of others on this board having booked. It's a lonely feeling and it is a large ship that has shown no new categories selling out in the last few months. I am following the Atlantis Events site daily to watch for any new developments.

[Two Boys Cruising]

I don't think you have any worries. Most Atlantis cruises sell out, some do not. Just part of the business. The Mexican Riviera cruise is coming up in October and they have 2,000 more people to try to sell it to with a "book while on board" discount which I suspect will be larger than usual given the slow selling of this cruise. The other thing to keep in mind is that some of the catagories could have just a few rooms left in them. It is difficult to look at that list and judge how full it is. I thought no one would be on the New York cruise a few years ago and it ended up about 2/3 full and was still a great time. Atlantis would not risk the negative PR of a canceled cruise and they are locked into the contract with the cruise company and pay for the ship either way.

 

As for the Sao Paulo part being pulled: Atlantis was late to the party as always. For some reason they cannot as a company seem to get it together to get these things planned far enough in advance. By the time they roll them out, people already have flight arrangements that they are not interested in changing just to pick up the new Atlantis package. I suspect they pulled it just due to a lack of interest and will try a different angle incorporating existing flight plans.

 

Have a great trip! I was on the first one a couple of years ago and had a wonderful time. Stay all night at the Sambadrome. If I had the available vacation time, I would go again. :)

 

TBC

[Wyldboy72]

I don't think you need to worry about the cruise being canceled. They pay for the ship no matter how many tickets they sell. They would lose more money canceling the cruise than going at 50% occupancy. RSVP was near bankruptcy yet their ships are still sailing. They had to drastically discount rooms on recent cruises to sell them, I haven't noticed Atlantis doing the same.

 

Also, Atlantis isn't very good about updating their website. When you call about availibility, they will often tell you a category it is sold out despite the website showing "available".

[amusea]

Thanks for your comments. Unfortunately, hotels in both Rio and Sao Paolo (which has its own Carnival) are very hard to come by at this late date. And some flights to Rio from the U.S on days just prior to Carnival are already sold out, especially on Delta from Atlanta. My concern was heightened by an indication of Sambadrome ticket sales through Atlantis. I just booked a few days ago and when I received my confirmation it seems that the ticket orders are numbered. There were less than 150 orders and evidently that includes both nights!

I doubt that many people on an October cruise are going to have the time or resources to book a two week trip to Rio just a few months out- even with a small monetary incentive. And, of course, any major discounting would have to be offered to all those who have already booked since that is Altantis' policy. Having been to Rio Carnival (and I stayed all night both nights), I booked this return to Rio because I thought it would be fun to experience it with "family". And, of course, it is the event of a lifetime. I hope the numbers are higher than all the signs indicate but your comments about Atlantis going ahead in any case are reassuring.

[Horizon Bound]

Amusea,

Understand your concern, but even if the ship were only half full, the number of "family" on board should be sufficient to party 'til the lights go out. We were late to this party when friends suggested we join them, and by the time we did, the cabin class we wanted was sold out, which we thought indicative of the general interest. Clearly, some cabins fill up quickly, perhaps due to limited availability. We made it clear that we'd reserve 'a cabin' but if the one we wanted didn't open up by the cancellation date (early Sept.?) we'd back out. Our TA called the day after the drop dead date to confirm the cabin we wanted - but we've yet to receive any confirmation for Sambadrome. And you note that Atlantis has removed the offer from their web site. We also attempted to get air arrangements at the posted prices and our TA said "those are ;long gone by now". We also couldn't get any pre-trip plans due to room availability, so we're extending our stay in BA for a few days. I think we'll be fine. I for one, can't stand lines for verything - and heavan knows, we'll get plenty of that in Rio anyway - who needs lines on the ship?

 

Anyway, don't stress. Heck, maybe we'll even get to take advantage of discounts if Atlantis has a promotion to get more bookings. Keep the faith.

[HotlantaCruiser]

mutliple points here:

 

1) Atlantis pulling the Sao Paulo pre-cruise package is, as Twoboyscruising put it, typical of them not getting their act together. Most people have already booked their airfare to Rio, when they booked the cruise. Now proposing a pre-cruise package in SP, when that was NEVER mentioned as a possibility before, just doesn't make sense. It is just not feasible for people to re-route airfare that is already purchased, to change to this new Sao Paulo pre-cruise arrangement.

 

When I did the first RIO cruise, I booked airfare the day the seats became available, as did many others based on the threads on CC and other sites at the time.

 

2) You can't use the Sambadrome ticket orders as a guide. First off, all orders had to be in already, as Rich was very clear about the deadlines. Second, most orders would be for Multiple tickets, either 2 (for couples) or more if one person is organizing stuff as a group. So from 150 orders, even if that's all there was, you can extrapolate that out to 250-300 people. That's still more than 10% of a full charter. On the first RIO cruise I don't think more than 35-40% of the pax went to the Sambadrome. Let's face it, that's a huge expense for some people, and lots may choose to forgo the experience due to economic reasons.

 

3) As others have mentioned, Rich is on the hook for the ship, whether it sails or not. He will lose much much more if he cancels it. I seriously doubt that he would risk the negative pr of a cancellation. He has lost his ass on cruises before (first Alaska, NYC Dawn cruise), and hasn't canceled them.

 

4) While RSVP has had financial issues, I don't think their situation is comparable to Atlantis. I know nothing of the inner workings of the PlanetOut/RSVP financial situation, but Atlantis has sold out just about every other product they have offered in the last year (prior Rio notwithstanding), and that included the Hugely profitable Freedom January cruise, the Baltics sell out (at PREMIUM pricing) and the currently sailing dual med cruises.

 

I just don't think you have anything to worry about.

[amusea]

The chances are good that Atlantis will again offer Sambadrome tickets when and if they get a new allotment from LIESA which is the government agency that distributes the vouchers. The actual tickets are not delivered to anyone until a couple of days before the event which is an attempt to control counterfeiting. Hobo's post regarding air fare cost and hotel availability illustrates why it is going to be very hard to sell this cruise from this date forward. Most people do not want to arrive on the day of embarkation since that night is the first night of Sambadrome but hotels are very scarce and most require a three or four day minimum if you can find one. If you arrive on Sunday maybe it is best to sleep off the effects of the flight the first day and go to Monday night's parade. That is supposed to be the better night anyway because it has the stronger entries. Meanwhile I'm sure it will be a wonderful cruise since there are other great ports. I was hoping this cruise would do well and be repeated because it is such a special itinerary. My first concern is for Atlantis which I have tried to support. I always want their cruises to be successful. Secondly, my personal concern is heightened by the fact that for me the Rio cruise is linked to the Atlantis Liberty cruise on the front end and a 16 day cruise to Antarctica from Buenos Aires on Feb. 19th on the back end so the Rio cruise is the glue that holds the whole trip together for my partner and I. I know, it's a tough life.:D And it's good to know there is someone else on this board that will be on the cruise. I did not realize that there was such a large percentage of the Atlantis guests that might not attend the parade at all and that it is a valid point. The posts from Hotlanta and Hobo have made me feel better. Thanks a lot to both of you.

[Oslo Dutch]

Just out of curiosity, why has Atlantis sold out cruises and RSVP not?

 

I can imagine QM2 Transatlantic was a bit of a gamble, but the Westerdam in the Med was also not sold out. Even my regular Dutch travel agent was selling and advertising it for around 600 Euro's. (Didn't have time unfortunately)

 

What is the general image of Atlantis and RSVP in the States? Does RSVP have a worse image? Or does Atlantis more actively markets the circuit party circles?

[Horizon Bound]

Just out of curiosity, why has Atlantis sold out cruises and RSVP not? What is the general image of Atlantis and RSVP in the States? Does RSVP have a worse image? Or does Atlantis more actively markets the circuit party circles?

 

Excellent question Oslo Dutch. Obviously this would be an IMHO response by each individual, but I'd be very interested in the sentiment as to why the financial performances vary and how Americans respond to how the two compare. Would you say one is a better value? Better organized? Advertising? Cruise destinations/ports/excursions? Perhaps this should be a new thread. Or has this been analyzed to death already?

 

One postscript to Hotlanta Cruiser: you mention "Rich" as if we shoud all know him. Is he the driving force behind Atlantis, aka the owner/president?

[Wyldboy72]

What is the general image of Atlantis and RSVP in the States? Does RSVP have a worse image? Or does Atlantis more actively markets the circuit party circles?

 

I am NOT into the circuit parties at all, but loved my cruise on Atlantis. I just got back from my first RSVP trip (Alaska) and wasn't impressed with RSVP. There was little activity and entertainment, parties seemed poorly planned, etc.. (See my review under the Amsterdam rollcall). But, I've been cautioned that the Alaska cruise isn't typical of an RSVP cruise though.

 

Two different people told me on the RSVP trip that "Atlantis caters to snobs with money". I've never thought that, but perhaps that is a generalization between the companies in the public's eye. But if that is true, the Atlantis clientele can afford to travel every year, while the RSVP passenger might be only able to go every few years. (IDK, just speculating.)

 

One thing I don't understand is RSVP is owned by Plantout/Gay.com. Yet Atlantis advertising dominates on Planetouts websites and magazines. I realize they need the ad revenue, but it's like seeing ads for Burger King posted in McDonalds.

[Oslo Dutch]

Hmmm, this doesn't sound very promising...:(

 

Just a stupid question as we hardly have this bear movement thing in Europe. First of all I love fit leather men with facial hair and hairy chests (not over hairy if you know what I mean). I once had an American boyfriend who reacted furious after I had dared calling him a bear. Terms as over obese, lazy, eating all day, sloppy etc were his response. So what do you mean exactly with these bears on board?

 

I agree the clique thing is not too much fun. I've done an Atlantis cruise two years ago . I can remember a lot of glamorous slim shiny one brain celled muscle boys who completely ignored me. Mind you I was in a rather depressed state, less than a week after my father funeral in the company of an unfaithful lover, so can't really blame them.

So that's why I decided to give RSVP a try. To have good fun and meet a lot of new people this time.

I am not big on activities but from what I noticed Atlantis was really well organized in that department.

 

During a regular cruise on the Maasdam we went to Captain's cocktails. We were seated in theatre, were given a drink and a nibble and just watched the Captain and officers on stage. Just a complete boring waste of time. RSVP seem to have used the same HAL routine for their parties. Not terribly smart thing to do. They should ahve taken the seats out of the hall. (haven't they done that before on a pervious Alaskan sailing?)

 

I'll be travelling on my own on the Zuiderdam in February. What is it like for singles to travel on RSVP? What is the percentage of Europeans? Have heard stories about roommates sharing a room? (I'll be doing that on the Zuiderdam)......just being curious..

 

Reint:)

[HotlantaCruiser]

 

One postscript to Hotlanta Cruiser: you mention "Rich" as if we shoud all know him. Is he the driving force behind Atlantis, aka the owner/president?

 

Yes, Rich Campbell is the President and founder of Atlantis Events. If you travel (have traveled) with Atlantis you will see him during the cruise/resort week. He also posts on the MSN boards (and perhaps others), using his real name.

 

 

I have no affiliation with them other than repeat customer.

[HotlantaCruiser]

I am NOT into the circuit parties at all, but loved my cruise on Atlantis. I just got back from my first RSVP trip (Alaska) and wasn't impressed with RSVP. There was little activity and entertainment, parties seemed poorly planned, etc.. (See my review under the Amsterdam rollcall). But, I've been cautioned that the Alaska cruise isn't typical of an RSVP cruise though.

 

Two different people told me on the RSVP trip that "Atlantis caters to snobs with money". I've never thought that, but perhaps that is a generalization between the companies in the public's eye. But if that is true, the Atlantis clientele can afford to travel every year, while the RSVP passenger might be only able to go every few years. (IDK, just speculating.)

 

While there may be a core group of 20-30 people who fit that category, and may consistently reserve the priciest staterooms, I have never heard that comment used to describe an Atlantis cruise. Actually, besides one or two obviously rich people who flaunt their oversize jewelry, most people look like average folks. You can not fill 7 cruises a year, with 2000 pax (or more) with just "snobs with money".

 

Actually, the comments that are often heard to describe the differences between the two companies, are usually straightforward (These are generalizations of course):

 

First of all they both offer a very similar product.

 

Atlantis has slightly younger age group, or perhaps a wider spread, of younger and older. Average age is typically 39-42. The January cruise is more "circuity", although the others are not so (even though Oslo Dutch had a bad experience, which I am not discounting in the slightest). Atlantis has moved away from formal nights, and dress codes of any sort (and may have swung to far casual), and was quick to embrace "open seating" in the dining rooms, instead of having 2 seatings (early and late).

 

RSVP seems to have a more concentrated age range, less younger, less older. They (perahps in the past) were seen to have more campy drag queens (as pax), leather, and bears. RSVP used to adhere to the standard traditional dining seatings, had formal nights, (not sure if they still do), etc which appealed to a slightly older crowd.

 

 

 

One thing I don't understand is RSVP is owned by Plantout/Gay.com. Yet Atlantis advertising dominates on Planetouts websites and magazines. I realize they need the ad revenue, but it's like seeing ads for Burger King posted in McDonalds.

 

I think the difference in advertising is a big issue at the moment. Start with this website for instance. The banner ad is the Atlantis ad. I haven't seen an ad for RSVP in Instinct (which appeals to a younger demographic) but I have seen Atlantis. RSVP revamped their print advertising at the time of the Planetout merger, then seemed to drop all advertising. Perhaps the marketing funds ran out, or they just chose not spend dollars to support competitor publications. Who knows?

[HotlantaCruiser]

Hmmm, this doesn't sound very promising...:(

 

Just a stupid question as we hardly have this bear movement thing in Europe. First of all I love fit leather men with facial hair and hairy chests (not over hairy if you know what I mean). I once had an American boyfriend who reacted furious after I had dared calling him a bear. Terms as over obese, lazy, eating all day, sloppy etc were his response. So what do you mean exactly with these bears on board?

 

I agree the clique thing is not too much fun. I've done an Atlantis cruise two years ago . I can remember a lot of glamorous slim shiny one brain celled muscle boys who completely ignored me. Mind you I was in a rather depressed state, less than a week after my father funeral in the company of an unfaithful lover, so can't really blame them.

So that's why I decided to give RSVP a try. To have good fun and meet a lot of new people this time.

I am not big on activities but from what I noticed Atlantis was really well organized in that department.

 

During a regular cruise on the Maasdam we went to Captain's cocktails. We were seated in theatre, were given a drink and a nibble and just watched the Captain and officers on stage. Just a complete boring waste of time. RSVP seem to have used the same HAL routine for their parties. Not terribly smart thing to do. They should ahve taken the seats out of the hall. (haven't they done that before on a pervious Alaskan sailing?)

 

I'll be travelling on my own on the Zuiderdam in February. What is it like for singles to travel on RSVP? What is the percentage of Europeans? Have heard stories about roommates sharing a room? (I'll be doing that on the Zuiderdam)......just being curious..

 

Reint:)

 

Lots of different questions, all deserving of a separate thread.

 

I'll try quickly, but I know I will not give them the attention they need:

 

Bear culture: Like likes like?

 

Alaska cruises (and Atlantis Baltics) usually take the tables/chairs out of the main upper lounge WHERE FEASIBLE. On the Constellation, there were some tables that were bolted/screwed to the floor that couldn't be moved.

 

The International question comes up all the time, and while the percentages are growing, the companies both target American audiences. Perhaps with Web advertising that will change, but I know that at one time Atlantis had a terrible UK booking office, and admitted as much. I don't know why they haven't appealed to more int'l pax, especially with the run up of the Euro which would make USD purchases much much cheaper. Same probably applies to RSVP but I don't know.

 

Roommate share is often a crap shoot.

 

RSVP used to get rave reviews for their host/cruise director (Danny Williams), and for their activities (pool games, etc). Again, for both operators, they basically take the normal cruise ship offerings, add a few twists, throw in 2-3 T dances, and some evening parties, and that's the package.

[Atlcple]

Although I have paid my deposit on the Atlantis Rio Carnival cruise and also have my flights, travel insurance, hotels and Carnival ticket order (placed through Atlantis) all paid or reserved, my nagging doubts about this cruise have returned. The main reasons are twofold - the pre-cruise package in Sao Paolo and the corresponding flight to Rio on the day of embarkation which was in the "planning stage" has been removed from their site. Now it just states "TBA". Secondly, the offer of tickets to the Sambadrome is no longer found on their site - at least for the present.

 

Not sure about the website offering, but we did order our Samba tickets and rec'd a confirmation yesterday regarding our tickets and they have been charged to my AMEX.

 

This will be our 15th Atlantis cruise and I am not worried in the least that the cruise will be cancelled. I do hope that we have a large crowd as we do prefer the larger ships and number of passengers, but nevertheless it's still Feb in South America and Carnival to boot...so whether they sell out the ship or not, it sure bets sitting at home in the dead of winter. :D

[greatam]

Don't mean to barge in, but Sambadromo tickets are available from this company at very reasonable prices.

http://rio-carnival.net/samba_parade/sambaparadeticketreservation.php?gclid=CM_qtLnVz44CFQpMYQodGAmiiw

 

I used them last year (we flew to Carnival after canceling our Infinity cruise). We booked the "frisas" (open box seats right on the runway) in Section 7. Our friends used them two years before to book one of the covered boxes and get a caterer to bring food and booze.

 

This company is one of the few officially licensed companies to sell tickets. The best values are the "numbered chairs" and the 6 seat open boxes directly in front of the Sambadrome. The company can even arrange participation in the parade with one of the samba schools-costume and all. You will have to arrange your own transportation IN ADVANCE. Any decent hotel in Rio can arrange private transportation.

 

I have nothing to do with the company. Just have used them and know they provide good, reliable service at a VERY reasonable price.

[Horizon Bound]

Don't mean to barge in, but Sambadromo tickets are available from this company at very reasonable prices.

http://rio-carnival.net/samba_parade/sambaparadeticketreservation.php?gclid=CM_qtLnVz44CFQpMYQodGAmiiw

 

Thanks for the great tip Greatam. I was under the impression that it was highly recommended, if not mandatory, for Atlantis pax to use their vendor in order to ensure shuttle services. In fact, I thought I read somewhere on this Board that it was nearly impossible to get back and forth without their shuttle services. That in mind, it seemed Atlantis' offer was the only way to go. But as with most things, the first trip to any destination is a learning experience, so we'll go with the flow and enjoy the camaraderie with fellow pax. If another trip to Carnaval is in the cards, perhaps we'll look into this vendor. Will keep for future use. Thanks for the tip.

[Treven]

I am NOT into the circuit parties at all, but loved my cruise on Atlantis. I just got back from my first RSVP trip (Alaska) and wasn't impressed with RSVP. There was little activity and entertainment, parties seemed poorly planned, etc.. (See my review under the Amsterdam rollcall). But, I've been cautioned that the Alaska cruise isn't typical of an RSVP cruise though.

 

Two different people told me on the RSVP trip that "Atlantis caters to snobs with money". I've never thought that, but perhaps that is a generalization between the companies in the public's eye. But if that is true, the Atlantis clientele can afford to travel every year, while the RSVP passenger might be only able to go every few years. (IDK, just speculating.)

 

One thing I don't understand is RSVP is owned by Plantout/Gay.com. Yet Atlantis advertising dominates on Planetouts websites and magazines. I realize they need the ad revenue, but it's like seeing ads for Burger King posted in McDonalds.

I doubt very seriously that Atlantis caters to "snobs with money". Actually I think the majority of folks on their cruises, like me, have to save up all year to afford one of their cruises and reserve an inside cabin to boot.

 

Personally I make sure my entire vacation is completely paid for before I leave my apartment for the airport. I just don't want to come home from my trip dreading what my MasterCard bill is going to look like the next month.

[HotlantaCruiser]

Thanks for the great tip Greatam. I was under the impression that it was highly recommended, if not mandatory, for Atlantis pax to use their vendor in order to ensure shuttle services. In fact, I thought I read somewhere on this Board that it was nearly impossible to get back and forth without their shuttle services. That in mind, it seemed Atlantis' offer was the only way to go. But as with most things, the first trip to any destination is a learning experience, so we'll go with the flow and enjoy the camaraderie with fellow pax. If another trip to Carnaval is in the cards, perhaps we'll look into this vendor. Will keep for future use. Thanks for the tip.

 

I think my comment, and comments from others, was that it was unwise to attempt Sambadromo without bus service, I don't think anyone said specifically that it had to be Atlantis' bus/tour operator. Although, I can see how that fine point would have been overlooked. Having no experience prior to the trip with Atlantis in 2006, I would have interpreted my comment the same way.

 

Before you have too much buyer's remorse, remember that the bus you will take will take you back to the ship, not to some central pickup point, where you will then have to find your way to the port. Unless the offer (I didn't click the link to check details or price difference) includes bus pickup/return to the port, it's perhaps not worth the risk/time. The port area is not a huge passenger ship facility, and is not a common taxi point (even in the daytime).

 

Who wants to try and flag a cab in Rio in the middle of the night, or morning, after you've been up all night partying at the biggest celebration in the world.

[greatam]

Just a little additional info on Carnival in Rio, ticket prices and transport.

 

Buying from the ticket agency I posted appears to be about 1/2 price buying from the cruse agency.

 

Carnival in Rio can be very dangerous-lots of muggings, pick pockets, etc. Rio itself is VERY dangerous. I am a frequent SA business traveler. We used to have a yearly meeting in Rio. The South American associates will no longer go to Rio due to the danger. So they decided on Venezuela this year. Hope I will be safe. Please be VERY careful with jewelry, money and credit cards.

 

When we went last year and our friends the year before, we made arrangements FAR in advance (October) to have car service. We paid $110.00 per night to have a car at our disposal whenever we wanted it. All we had to do was call from inside the Sambadrome and our driver would meet us at the pickup area. Even adding in the "on demand" car service, we still saved a lot of money buying the tickets ourselves over buying a package from an agency or buying from the cruise line. Our tickets were waiting for us at the hotel when we arrived.

 

Hope this info was helpful.

[Dodsworth]

I just booked the Rio cruise and bought the pre-night package in Sao Paolo. It's back up on their site.