automatic tipping

[kryos]

IMO having the service charge apply to children, as well as adults, is quite fair. Children's beds need to be made, towels picked up and replaced, bathroom/toilet cleaned, cabin dusted and vacuumed.

Unless the family are absolute total slobs, it does not take that much longer for the cabin steward to clean up after 4 than it does to clean up after two. I still say children's (or actually any third and fourth person in the cabin) auto-tips should be considerably less than the $10 guideline. I still say too that the auto-tip should be based on cabin, not how many people occupy it. After all, if we are talking fair, how come nobody is yelling about the unfairness of a cabin steward's auto-tips when there is only one person occupying the cabin? Can you really say that he saves that much time because he is only picking up after one person? He still has to make the bed, he still has to clean the bathroom? Do you honestly think that takes a lot less time than it would take for two people? I say the cabin steward will spend just as much time in that solo cruiser's cabin as he does in the one nextdoor where he is getting auto-tips based on two people. Now, is that fair? Since the single is occupying the cabin by themselves, shouldn't they pay the same auto-tip as the couple in a similar cabin?

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[KAYEF]

richnorto

On our first cruise, we wondered about a LONG line at the Front Desk the day and evening before our last day...................it was a line of Europeans on our cruise ALL removing auto tips because "we don't tip in Europe."

Well, they were enjoying OUR culture where we DO tip; it really made quite a poor impression on other cruisers.

[hammybee]

Delete

 

A drive bye shooting, Val? :D

[kryos]

Some of you "old timers" probably remember when HAL had a policy of "tipping not required, it is our pleasure to serve you." They could not even talk about "recommended amounts" and if a crew member was caught "trolling" he was toast. Unfortunately, a lot of people chose to define that statement as "no tipping allowed."

I don't blame the passengers for that misunderstanding. That was the fault of the cruise line entirely. Their wording encouraged passengers to make that assumption. The cruise line was obviously trying to tell passengers that cruising with us is cheaper because tipping is not required. This made passengers think they were getting something extra when they cruised HAL ... so naturally they weren't gonna come onboard and start tipping when they chose the line because of the "no tipping required" policy. Remember, not everyone is a "savvy" cruiser. There are a lot of first-timers out there who are probably appalled at the $10 per day, per person "suggested" tip. They never tipped that much in their life! They are of modest means ... generally eating at the local diner when they want to have dinner out ... staying in Motel 6 when they travel. This cruise, to them, could be a once in a lifetime experience.

 

My very first HAL cruise was under the old "tipping not required" regime. I was onboard the Rotterdam to attend a writer's conference at sea. I roomed with another writer ... a young kid from the Seattle area. When it came time to leave a tip for the room steward, I asked her if she wanted to just go in with me on a tip and we could leave it from the both of us. She was shocked. Her understanding was that she didn't have to tip. I gently corrected her and said that we really should leave him somthing for a ten-day cruise. She reached into her bag and pulled out a $10 bill. When I told her that I really didn't think $20 from the two of us would be enough, she got mad. At that point, she took her $10 back and said that she was on a very tight budget for the cruise and took it with the understanding (apparently from the travel agent) that there was no tipping required. She told me that if I wanted to tip the room steward, that was certainly my choice, but she wasn't making any contribution.

 

At first I was mad, but then when I thought about it I realized that she was right. The travel agent apparently steered her wrong. She was a young kid, and she didn't make a whole lot of money. This cruise was probably a major stretch for her, and if she was told she didn't have to tip, then she had a right to be mad when I started soliciting for tip contributions. I don't think she tipped the waiters in the dining room either.

 

One other thing ... apparently my roomie wasn't the only one who didn't tip. Do you remember back in these "old days" when all alternate dining venues (Pinnacle Grill, Lido, room service, etc.) were suspended on the last night of the cruise? Why do you think that was? It was to force people into the dining room for dinner so that it would be that much harder to "stiff" their waitstaff. Basically, if you want to eat dinner, you have to go to the dining room and face the people you're stiffing. I would imagine that caused a lot of folks to spread some greenback around ... whether they wanted to or not.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

It was my feeling that many people weren't leaving tips and that's why the auto tip was added. Sometimes people remember to tip in a hotel room and sometimes they don't. The tip in the diningroom of a restaurant or hotel is expected, but on a ship, I'm sure there were people who never thought about the diningroom staff.

When I stay in a hotel, and I pay a "service fee" per day for doing so, I don't tip either. My assumption is that the "resort fee" covers gratuities. The only person I will tip is the dining room waiter if I decide to have a meal in the hotel restaurant.

 

As for the auto-tips on the ship ... you are absolutely right. I've been told by several people that the service staff are doing far better now than they did before the auto-tips. If you read comments about tipping here on Cruise Critic, you would think cruisers are very generous ... treating our service staff very fairly. However, the sad fact is that many, many people will undertip or leave no tip at all. Some of them do it because money is truly an issue, while others are just plain cheap. Regardless, the auto-tip is the best thing that ever happened to HAL's service staff because at least now they are getting more in the way of tips than they did before. While people can still remove auto-tips, the fact remains that most will be too embarrassed to ... unless they have a "dammed" good reason.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[bUU]

This is a fundamental understanding of the consumer marketplace: American consumers make decisions based on price. This is a well-established fact of the consumer marketplace and drives the behavior of businesses in that sector. Understanding of the marketplace within you yourself participate as a consumer is really important. If you're regularly finding yourself mystified or disappointed by how the consumer marketplace works (i.e., fuel surcharges, automatic tipping, etc.), then I respectfully suggest that your understanding of how its works may be in error. If you, instead, find that your understanding of the consumer marketplace fosters your satisfaction and helps you avoid being disappointed by how it operates, then I would suggest that your understanding of the marketplace is sound.

 

I wish you the best with your cruise, though; I hope there aren't other aspects of the offering that you'll encounter and be disappointed about.

[trubey]

This is a fundamental understanding of the consumer marketplace . . . etc. etc.

 

In plain English, yeah, we all know it's a lot of crud but we shrug our shoulders and get over it.;)

 

lkt

[bUU]

Hehe... we YOU can get away with saying it that way here.... I doubt I'd be able to do so with impunity.

[DesertDiva]

That's fine - but let's just call it what it is - a "service charge."

 

The mass marketed cruise lines are trending towards a non discretionary hotel service charge.

[bUU]

That's fine - but let's just call it what it is - a "service charge."

Each of us can call it what we wish, for sure.

[Chivalrygirl]

A drive bye shooting, Val? :D

 

Actually Hammy it was off to the Tower with you my girl and onto the block :D

[Chivalrygirl]

richnorto

On our first cruise, we wondered about a LONG line at the Front Desk the day and evening before our last day...................it was a line of Europeans on our cruise ALL removing auto tips because "we don't tip in Europe."

Well, they were enjoying OUR culture where we DO tip; it really made quite a poor impression on other cruisers.

 

At the risk of being slung into jail again, I feel impelled to implore you to consider just what is written above.

Why do you believe that Europeans are enjoying YOUR culture when they are on board a vessel in international waters i.e., maybe in the med, South America, South Pacific and so on, and travelling on a ship that is registered in Bermuda, what does this have to do with US culture? It is my honest opinion that when sailing in international waters vessels are carrying a variety of other nationals who have their own cultures, why does this make yours the correct one? It seems to me that the cruise lines are, to use an American expression (as the word means something totally different and would get me slung into a real prison should I try doing such a thing on the street in my own country) stiffing the crew and not the passengers and laughing all the way to the bank at the same time.

 

Oh well I have made some great friends on the HAL board and you all know who you are and have my contact details but I think its probably time I said farewell for now and start giving this board a "big miss", as someone has already said, cruising on vessels charging an automatic gratuity is discretionary, however in my case its more than that, I just don't have the necessary funds to sail Holland America now or in the distant future.

Farewell from Her Majesty :mad:

[mom3inarow]

hello,

 

 

i read all your comments and thank you for taking the time to write them down. now to answer some of the questions.

 

we take carnival mainly because the fantasy line is the only line that has cabins for five.

 

one bad experience does not make for not using the company again.

 

if we have a bad experience and our children are old enough to understand about it then we never go on that line again doesn't that send a message that contradicts what we teach our children about getting up dusting off and try it again. we like carnival but i think that tipping would be less for children. we have three and that is $200 for a four day cruise. i think that instead of the ten dollars per person per day there should be a modification. whether there is two or five in a cabin you are getting the same service. it is important to remember that familes with children and others go on cruises that they have saved up for years to go and to have to as in our case (we did not save for years) give a $200.00 tip takes away from the budget that we could use on the ship for other things, have you ever bought sodas, liquor, or other things, now times each item by five and you will see how fast that adds up and increases our bill.

 

as for the room and the steward not cleaning it. i clean up after my children, at resturants i clean up the floor wipe down the seats. i firmly believe that no one except my husband or myself should clean up. i take all the sheets off the bed at hotels. i make the room as easy as possible for the staff so they do not get held up in my room or cabin. i cannot say that this is true for cruisers or guests at hotels who leave a room trashed. i do not allow them to do this. in fact all we ask of the room steward to vaccum and do a quick look see, change the towels. fut this was never done.

 

i like carnival and the fact that this past experience was not what i would have expected from them and i let them know it by writing the comments down about the experience, it should be noted that i never heard from them, this time i will go directly to the purser.

 

as previous mystery shoppers for carnival i have seen the quality go down. but once again we like that fact that we a majority of the time can be all in the same cabin. and they no longer have mystery shoppers to my knowledge.

 

once again thank you for you polite comments. a good debate is enjoyable.

 

amy

[CDRMark]

This is a fundamental understanding of the consumer marketplace: American consumers make decisions based on price. This is a well-established fact of the consumer marketplace and drives the behavior of businesses in that sector.

Snip.......

IMO this is not always the case, especially with respect to discretionary spending. How else to justify a $6 cuppa at Starbucks, or other Brand loyalty in the face of equal but lesser priced alternatives? The whole idea of "Branding" and btw advertising, is to justify the decision to spend more for something that one could obtain at a lesser price.

Cheers

Mark

[trubey]

This is something I don't understand. HAL knows that the $10/day service charge is an irritation at best, and lots of people downright hate it. Why don't they just raise their prices by $10 a day and specify in big letters, "GRATUITIES ARE INCLUDED IN THE PRICE OF YOUR CRUISE"?

 

That way, anybody who's _________(fill in the blank) enough to give them extra, fine: the rest of us won't worry about it.

 

lkt

[hammybee]

This is something I don't understand. HAL knows that the $10/day service charge is an irritation at best, and lots of people downright hate it. Why don't they just raise their prices by $10 a day and specify in big letters, "GRATUITIES ARE INCLUDED IN THE PRICE OF YOUR CRUISE"?

 

That way, anybody who's _________(fill in the blank) enough to give them extra, fine: the rest of us won't worry about it.

 

lkt

 

I think it's because the airline started this ball rolling many, many years ago. Airline market research determined that consumers were more likely to dismiss fuel surcharges and taxes due to factors beyond the airline's control, than a price increase. It's worked for them and it will also work for cruise lines.

 

In the end, does it really matter when the bottm line is the same?

[trubey]

I think it's because the airline started this ball rolling many, many years ago. Airline market research determined that consumers were more likely to dismiss fuel surcharges and taxes due to factors beyond the airline's control, than a price increase. It's worked for them and it will also work for cruise lines.

 

In the end, does it really matter when the bottm line is the same?

 

The pendulum might just be swinging the other way!! In the EU now, the price quoted for airfare, car rentals, hotels, etc. is the bottom line -- by law. Some legislator got tired of the gimmick, I guess. Works for me, sho'nuf. I hate saying, "Gee, the car is only 110 euro a week!" and when you get it it's double.

 

lkt

[bUU]

FWIW, that pendulum doesn't reach across the pond. :) The United States has spent thirty years swinging in a much more conservative, pro-business direction than most of Europe. Even our liberals are pro-business, these days. I doubt EU trends are in any way indicative of what will happen in the US.

[jhannah]

Why don't they just raise their prices by $10 a day and specify in big letters, "GRATUITIES ARE INCLUDED IN THE PRICE OF YOUR CRUISE"?

Lane, I hear ya'. But the problem with this, from the cruise line's perspective, is that if it's part of the base price then it becomes commissionable to the travel agent. So they would have to make it more than $10 to net the needed amount.

 

It's a tough call. We consumers are price-oriented, that's for sure. Many of us wouldn't sail one of the luxury lines because we look at the published fare and gag. Yet when some have run the numbers, the total cruise cost is not that much higher once included tips and drinks are factored in. (If you don't drink, then the cost difference becomes greater.)