Tipping On Holland America

[Pettifogger]

Taxguy77: I should have specified in my post a few minutes ago that I was referring to the confusion about whether tips from someone who cancelled the autotips had to be surrendered by the recipient to the pool. If you know of a recent authoritative statement by HAL on that subject, you could considerably shorten some of these threads for which most of us would be grateful.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

I appreciate the auto tip and leave it in tact. =X= offers prepaid gratuities as an option as well. I would gladly pay increased pre-paid or set gratuities if the cruise line would ban all onboard tipping completely. Just totally get rid of it. It works for the luxury lines - why not adopt it on HAL?

 

We sailed in an SA suite this year and saw someone slip the Neptune Lounge Concierge a $100 bill with their in-room dinner order for that night. Are you kidding me? Don't some perks come gratis with a $4000+ room? I believe this exchange of money pits passenger against passenger in an attempt to receive exceptional service. Besides, aren't the NL staff under the Purser and therefore have a different compensation structure than the other front-of-house staff?

 

The cruise line should include ample gratutity as a "non-discountable, non-commissionalbe" amount in the fare and then ban all onboard tipping outright. How nice would it be to pay your fare and be done with it?

 

Regardless, tipping is an antiquated, aristocratic custom. Furthermore, it allows the employer to pass wage costs on to the consumer. Incidentally, you can still genuinely thank someone in a meaningful way without handing them money. Think of all the service professions where tipping is neither customary or allowed? These people still get thanks for their work.

 

Pete

[Dodger Blue]

I finally heard back from HAL today via email regarding my question about tipping. Unfortunately, as Ruth predicted, they did not answer the question. They simply sent their stock policy about auto-tipping. I've again asked them to answer my question about the "additional" tips and will wait to see if I get a satisfactory answer. I, like all of you, would certainly like a definitive answer on this question before I take my next cruise.

[cruz chic]

We sailed in an SA suite this year and saw someone slip the Neptune Lounge Concierge a $100 bill with their in-room dinner order for that night. Are you kidding me?

Wow I find that totally outrageous. Some people have way to much money. Please feel free to send me some:D.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

Wow I find that totally outrageous. Some people have way to much money. Please feel free to send me some:D.

 

 

I know. And then I have to meagerly saunter up to the desk with my humble request for evening canapes with no cash in hand! O, the humanity!:)

[hammybee]

 

The cruise line should include ample gratutity as a "non-discountable, non-commissionalbe" amount in the fare and then ban all onboard tipping outright. How nice would it be to pay your fare and be done with it?

 

Pete

 

Some of the true high end, luxury cruise lines include the cost of service in their base fare, multiples of what it costs to sail with a mass marketed cruise line. Despite the " no tipping allowed" policy, passengers insisted on tipping. And so, the cruise lines created " Team Fund" pots and the proceeds are shared by all service staff. Those passengers do not seem to get anxious about how the fund gets allocated.

 

On HAL or most of the mass marketed cruise lines, leave your Hotel Service Charge intact and be done with it. In fact, you can even pay for it as a part of your final payment and not see the charge on your onboard account. Problem solved.

[cruz chic]

I know. And then I have to meagerly saunter up to the desk with my humble request for evening canapes with no cash in hand! O, the humanity!:)

Too funny :D.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

Some of the true high end, luxury cruise lines include the cost of service in their base fare, multiples of what it costs to sail with a mass marketed cruise line. Despite the " no tipping allowed" policy, passengers insisted on tipping.

 

On HAL or most of the mass marketed cruise lines, leave your Hotel Service Charge intact and be done with it.

 

Hi Hammybee,

 

That's what we do. And to be clear - we don't mind the gratuity at all. I worked my way through college (one of many jobs) as a waiter and bar tender so I understand tipping for service. I was fortunate however to work for an employer who also paid a base wage above and beyond minimum.

 

Regarding the luxury lines, we have considered sailing on one of them and have looked at the some of the tipping threads. It seems that there are some (RSSC, Sea Dream YC) where tipping is not accpeted by the staff. Has that been your experince?

 

Pete

[Pettifogger]

BoiseIdahoSpud: I cannot foretell the future or even read minds, which should be easier, but if the cruise lines included an "ample gratutity as a 'non-discountable, non-commissionalbe' amount in the fare", would you expect that the cruise lines and TAs would include that amount in their advertised fares or exclude it as some do taxes? I have reluctantly adjusted to advertisements for a fare of $1,400, when in fact I must send closer to $1,500. I'm not at all sure I'd be willing to or should adjust to advertisements of $1,400, when in fact I'd have to send them several hundred dollars more.

[kryos]

Regarding the luxury lines, we have considered sailing on one of them and have looked at the some of the tipping threads. It seems that there are some (RSSC, Sea Dream YC) where tipping is not accpeted by the staff. Has that been your experince?

I think the cruise line pays their tips upfront ... which, of course, is factored into the fare you pay. So, I would imagine ... in an effort to be fair ... the staff are advised to decline cash tips.

 

However, from what I understand as well, the staff will advise the passenger that if they really feel they want to tip, why not go to the front desk and make a contribution to the crew welfare fund. That fund is used for different things that benefit the entire crew ... such as adding DVD players to all the crew staterooms, or TVs, or mini-fridges, or a Christmas party, or whatever.

 

So they are not really declining tips, but rather just redirecting them.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

BoiseIdahoSpud: I cannot foretell the future or even read minds, which should be easier, but if the cruise lines included an "ample gratutity as a 'non-discountable, non-commissionalbe' amount in the fare", would you expect that the cruise lines and TAs would include that amount in their advertised fares or exclude it as some do taxes? I have reluctantly adjusted to advertisements for a fare of $1,400, when in fact I must send closer to $1,500. I'm not at all sure I'd be willing to or should adjust to advertisements of $1,400, when in fact I'd have to send them several hundred dollars more.

 

Let me know if you figure out how to read minds...:)

 

The short answer is yes. In my "dream world" the advertised fare would be inclusive of all charges, fees, gratuities, and taxes. Why not take the guess work and hidden aspect out of the vacation? Makes perfect sense to me.

 

I've been wondering if tipping might be more of a generational thing. We are in our 30's and have sailed twice (one HAL, one =X=) with a third (HAL) booked for FEB 2009. While we are new to cruising, I can say we are "happily hooked" and are looking forward to many adventures at sea. Maybe our attitude is a little different than other cruising generations?

 

As I have been doing housework today I've been thinking more about this thread. Wouldn't it be nice to be on a HAL ship, have room service delivered, and offer a cash gratuity to the crew only to have it returned to you with a polite "That's not needed sir. It is our pleasure to have you onboard as our guest."

 

I'm greatly enjoying this discussion and appreciate all the comments and ideas!

 

Pete:)

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

I think the cruise line pays their tips upfront ... which, of course, is factored into the fare you pay. So, I would imagine ... in an effort to be fair ... the staff are advised to decline cash tips.

 

However, from what I understand as well, the staff will advise the passenger that if they really feel they want to tip, why not go to the front desk and make a contribution to the crew welfare fund. That fund is used for different things that benefit the entire crew ... such as adding DVD players to all the crew staterooms, or TVs, or mini-fridges, or a Christmas party, or whatever.

 

That sounds like a great approach, Rita. Thanks for sharing this with me (us). I wish HAL would adopt an identical approach.

 

Do you have personal experience with that type of tipping system?

 

Pete

[hammybee]

Hi Hammybee,

 

Regarding the luxury lines, we have considered sailing on one of them and have looked at the some of the tipping threads. It seems that there are some (RSSC, Sea Dream YC) where tipping is not accpeted by the staff. Has that been your experince?

 

Pete

 

I cannot afford to sail with the luxury cruise lines, so I do so vicariously, lurking on their forum boards. Seabourn, Silver Sea, Sea Dream and Regent prices include all gratuities. Of course, you will pay serious multiples of a HAL cruise. Crystal, another high end cruise line, does not include tips in their prices.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

I cannot afford to sail with the luxury cruise lines, so I do so vicariously, lurking on their forum boards. Seabourn, Silver Sea, Sea Dream and Regent prices include all gratuities. Of course, you will pay serious multiples of a HAL cruise. Crystal, another high end cruise line, does not include tips in their prices.

 

 

Agreed, Hammybee. We are hoping to try a "luxury inclusive" sailing within a year or so to see if the difference is worth loosening the purse strings. From what we've read on those boards, RSSC or SeaDream seem the best fit for us. We're searching for the best service quality with the most casual approach, if that makes any sense.

 

Regarding the all inclusives, it seems that the multiples you pay are not just for gratuity but also for the near 1:1 crew to passenger ratio, higher quality and better variety of food and wine, better room amenities (marble, hardwoods) etc. So given that, do you think a mass-marketed premium line like HAL or =X= could take an increase in gratutity only but keep the other areas at their current standard so as not to raise the fare too high?

 

I appreciate your thoughts on this subject.

 

Pete

[Dodger Blue]

It would be nice if things operated more like they do in most places in Europe...no tipping period. If employers would pay decent wages to their employees the entire concept of tipping would be a non issue. While I do tip, I'm not sure I fully understand the concept of paying something extra for something you've already paid for. Now it's customary to tip the guy at Starbucks for pouring you a cup of coffee. What next, do we tip the checker in the grocery store, the doctor after a successful operation, teachers when our children get a good grade? Where will it all end? I'm very frustrated.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

It would be nice if things operated more like they do in most places in Europe...no tipping period. If employers would pay decent wages to their employees the entire concept of tipping would be a non issue. While I do tip, I'm not sure I fully understand the concept of paying something extra for something you've already paid for. Now it's customary to tip the guy at Starbucks for pouring you a cup of coffee. What next, do we tip the checker in the grocery store, the doctor after a successful operation, teachers when our children get a good grade? Where will it all end? I'm very frustrated.

 

Or the airport news stand - run your credit card to pay and it prints a receipt with a tip line. Tipping for a newspaper? It never ends.

 

Again - HAL is a premium line vacation experience. Charge us one fare, include an expanded inclusive gratuity (non-discountable, non-commissionable) and be done with it. Ban tipping onboard so that all offers of cash are met with "Please sir/madam, that's not necessary - it is our pleasure to have you as our guest." We can still write letters of commendation (or the opposite, if necessary) to the corporate office.

[Dodger Blue]

I finally received another reply from HAL regarding this subject. However, they never really answered the question directly. That question was "what happens to additional tips given to staff providing the autotip is left in place." The first time they simply sent back a copy of the autotip procedures. When I asked the question again, they sent this. This implies that the staff gets to keep the additional tips. I wish they could answer the question directly. I guess that's too much to hope for.

 

Thank you for your continued correspondence with Holland America Line in regards to our Hotel Service Charge policy. The policy that was provided in the previous email is Holland America Line's official policy, there is not a policy in regards to additional gratuities.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

Sounds like there just isn't a voerall policy for additional tips. Probably just common practice among the crew for how they handle it.

[hammybee]

 

It would be nice if things operated more like they do in most places in Europe...no tipping period.

 

Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

In most Euro countries, a Service Charge ( about 15%) is either automatically included in the price of the meal or automatically added to the check. This is usually stated somewhere on the menu, not necessarily in English. Even then, it is generally considered courteous to round up the bill and leave it for the Wait Staff.

 

If a service charge has not been added or included in the price of the meal, a 10% tip is considered reasonable.

 

Exceptions include small owner-operated establishments, pubs, fast food and counter service.

[Dodger Blue]

Nothing could be further from the truth.

 

In most Euro countries, a Service Charge ( about 15%) is either automatically included in the price of the meal or automatically added to the check. This is usually stated somewhere on the menu, not necessarily in English. Even then, it is generally considered courteous to round up the bill and leave it for the Wait Staff.

 

If a service charge has not been added or included in the price of the meal, a 10% tip is considered reasonable.

 

Exceptions include small owner-operated establishments, pubs, fast food and counter service.

 

My experience has been the opposite....as recently as last summer!

[hammybee]

My experience has been the opposite....as recently as last summer!

 

Mine too.

 

I think if you did not leave a tip in Paris, the waiter would chase you down the street with a meat cleaver in hand.:eek:

 

No tipping in most parts of Germany,Italy and Switzerland, given the Service Charge is on the check.

[Pettifogger]

DodgerBlue: Thank you for your valiant effort.

[catl331]

It is mentioned at the disembarkation talk that 70% of the auto tip is divided among your 2 cabin stewards and your 2 dinning room staff -- that is $7 of the $11 dollars. The other $4 (30%) is divided among the "behind the scenes crew" -- kitchen staff, laundry people, those who go around the ship sweeping, dusting, etc.

I believe the 35/35/30 percentages stayed the same, so that would mean it is $3.85/$3.85/$3.30, not $7 and $4.

 

If you do not remove the auto tips -- anything that you personally give to any individual -- cabin stewards -- dining room staff -- bar tenders -- wine stewards -- etc., -- it is theirs to keep!! They are allowed to keep all those extra tips -- those tips are not pooled.

I have seen bartenders and waiters toss cash into a common bowl.

[kryos]

That sounds like a great approach, Rita. Thanks for sharing this with me (us). I wish HAL would adopt an identical approach.

 

Do you have personal experience with that type of tipping system?

Unfortunately, not a personal experience ... I don't have the big bucks necessary to take a fully-inclusive luxury cruise ... at least not at this stage of my life. But I've extensively studied several cruise lines due to another job I have, and know that's the way it's handled on lines like Regent. Passengers are advised that their gratuities are already included in their cruise fare, and that no additional tips are EITHER required or even expected, and crew members are advised that if passengers try to tip them, to politely decline the tip. If the passenger seems upset by this, advise them about the crew welfare fund and suggest they funnel their cash tip there since it benefits the entire crew.

 

Those luxury lines generally pay their people a lot more than HAL does, and thus they don't need to have their hands out for a tip. I would also ASSuME that the staff on those luxury lines do not have to work as hard as people on HAL do ... since the ships are generally much smaller and carry a lot fewer passengers that HAL vessels. However, on the flip side of that, the crew on those luxury lines are expected to offer a much higher level of service, far more personalized. The passengers on those ships pay top dollar for their cruises and thus expect a lot more than it would be fair to expect on the average HAL cruise.

 

So I guess it all works out, but I still would doubt that an experienced cabin steward on a Regent ship would have to work half as hard as one on HAL. He would probably have far fewer cabins to service on that Regent ship, though he would be expected to provide a heightened level of service there.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[kryos]

Or the airport news stand - run your credit card to pay and it prints a receipt with a tip line. Tipping for a newspaper? It never ends.

LOL ... you've got to be kidding me? A tip at the newspaper stand? It would be a cold day you know where before he'd get a nickle tip from me.

 

Tipping has gotten way out of line, in my humble opinion. To keep things simple, I have a "personal policy." If I am served ... as in a restaurant where I am seated at a table and a wait person brings me my food and takes care of my needs, I tip them and tip them well if they serve me well. But when I go to a take-out window where I stand around and wait for my order to be prepared, I don't tip a nickle ... and I don't care how many "tip jars" they have lined up on that countertop. I totally ignore them as I pocket my change. To me, the fact that someone is preparing the order and ringing it up for me at the cash register is covered by the amount I am being charged for that order.

 

Same deal at the Dunkin Donuts or the Starbucks. If I am standing at a service counter, ordering and carrying my own food to a table or out to the car, no tip necessary. But if I am in a coffee shop with a wait person serving me, then that's a different thing and, of course, I will give him a tip for his trouble ... the size of which will depend upon the service rendered.

 

I'm sure there are people on these boards who probably think I'm cheap ... but honestly, that's not the case. I can be extremely generous when tipping if I was taken good care of. But I also think that there are certain functions that incur tips, and others that do not ... and I prefer to save my tips for those who truly need them because their salaries take those tips into account ... such as wait staff.

 

For all the others ... cashiers, counter personnel, etc. ... I will look toward their employers to pay their salaries ... just as my employer pays mine.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita