Tipping On Holland America

[kryos]

Unless everyone working on the ship knows every passenger's face, name, and room number, how will someone (who is going out of their way to help you) know who you are from dick or jane and then ALSO know to pool the money or to keep it?

I always wondered about this too ... and even went so far as to say that I believed all tip money was pooled. But I talked to several managerial level people onboard the Statendam earlier this year, and they told me that HAL requires people to notify the office a few days before the end of the cruise if they want their auto-tips removed. This way the front office can prepare a list of those employees deleting it, and pass their information along to the cabin stewards and wait staff management in the dining room. In the case of the cruise I was on, a separate billing statement was prepared mid-way through the cruise and we were told that if we wanted auto-tips removed or reduced from that statement, we needed to let the front office know immediately, or that initial statement would stand for the cruise up until that point.

 

I still have my doubts ... and wonder if there are some cases where all tip money has to be turned in ... but at least with the people I talked to, I have no doubt they were telling me the truth. I guess I just can't imagine how HAL handles that paperwork nightmare of keeping track. Cabin stewards would probably be easy. But how about waitstaff ... and what about the ones working in AYWD?

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Dodger Blue]

I have just emailed HAL hopefully to get an answer to this once and for all. I will share once I receive a reply.

[RuthC]

I have just emailed HAL hopefully to get an answer to this once and for all. I will share once I receive a reply.

Right. And everyone on this board knows how accurate the info coming out of Seattle is. :rolleyes:

(There's as many different answers as there are people giving them.)

[twinkletoes4445]

Again, I hope you are correct. I want to reward those that go the extra mile, not those that do the minimum. That's what I pay my fare for.

 

I understand the point you were trying to convey...it took me a bit, but I finally got there. It would just be so much simpler if HAL would put this in writing, but I'll bet that they don't encourage extra tipping anyway, since we're paying $11 per day, per person, so we'll probably never see anything official in writing about this subject.

 

Have a wonderful cruise. :)

[twinkletoes4445]

I have just emailed HAL hopefully to get an answer to this once and for all. I will share once I receive a reply.

 

I am curious to hear what they say about this issue. Do let us know, because I'd like to hear what they say, especially in writing. But like Ruth said, getting accurate info from Seattle may be tough to do. I've called a couple of times about the missing excursions for our cruise, and I've heard everything from "they are sold out," to "don't know what's going on." You'd think someone in the home offices could explain why excursions aren't being offered on a couple of islands for our cruise, when they are being offered to the other cruises sailing earlier and later than us.

[AlohaPride]

I always wondered about this too ... and even went so far as to say that I believed all tip money was pooled. But I talked to several managerial level people onboard the Statendam earlier this year, and they told me that HAL requires people to notify the office a few days before the end of the cruise if they want their auto-tips removed. This way the front office can prepare a list of those employees deleting it, and pass their information along to the cabin stewards and wait staff management in the dining room. In the case of the cruise I was on, a separate billing statement was prepared mid-way through the cruise and we were told that if we wanted auto-tips removed or reduced from that statement, we needed to let the front office know immediately, or that initial statement would stand for the cruise up until that point.

 

I still have my doubts ... and wonder if there are some cases where all tip money has to be turned in ... but at least with the people I talked to, I have no doubt they were telling me the truth. I guess I just can't imagine how HAL handles that paperwork nightmare of keeping track. Cabin stewards would probably be easy. But how about waitstaff ... and what about the ones working in AYWD?

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

 

Oh! Don't get me wrong. I believe everyone - you, Ruth, twinkletoes, etc. If anyone asked me, I would tell them about the list and such. I just think it sounds like a ligistical nightmare! On the Noordam in 06, we were so impressed with this one steward in the Lido that we sought him out. He didn't know our names or anything like that. Thank God we left the auto-tip in place, but I just don't know how he would know who we were.

 

I wonder if there's a "when in doubt" situation they just pool it? And what about those people who leave the auto-tip in place right up until the last day, but have been giving tips throughout the trip?

[GeriatricNurse]

Whenever you order a drink in the bar the bar tender or server asks for your card and believe me they know your stateroom after only one time so if you do give them a tip at the end of the cruise, they will know which ones they can keep and which ones need to be turned in to the pool. I bet even the Maitre D knows who you are because why would you tip him or her unless they offered you some assistance?[/quote]

 

 

Well, I certainly would NOT tip the Maitre D, (now known as the DRM -Dining Room Manager),for ANY reason(s), because he is a Manager; considered an Officer on the ship and, therefor, would NOT tip an officer!

I mean, would you tip every other Officer on the cruise for whatever reason(s)?

[kryos]

I would never change the autotip. It's only the additional tips I've given in the past that concern me. I want to make sure that the person I'm giving it to gets to keep it.

HAL claims that they do, and while I certainly didn't ask for specifics, I would tend to think that the way it works is that they have to turn everything in ... but then are given back the monies they collected when it is confirmed that the passengers kept their auto-tips in place.

 

I guess I just wonder about this because it would seem so easy to "cheat" if one wanted to do that. If I get a cash tip from the people in cabin 20 who deleted their auto-tips, what's to prevent me from saying it was from the people in cabin 21, who I know kept them on? It would be very easy to do that, at least for the cabin teams. Now, waiters might have it a bit tougher because they generally won't know who kept their auto-tips in place and who didn't. Maybe their area captain might have a list, but perhaps that list won't be shared with them. So, when they get a cash tip, and hand it in, they have no choice but to report who gave it to them and then hope for the best. If nothing is given back to them individually at the end of the cruise, they have no way of knowing if they are being shafted or not. Waitstaff in AYWD has it even worse. They don't even know half the time the cabin numbers of those who have given them a tip.

 

And don't forget ... cabin stewards work in teams now ... and who knows who else may be considered a part of each "team?" ... someone in the laundry, the person who maybe is assigned to clean the public hallways on the cabin floors, the person who brings up the fresh towels and distributes them, the beverage server who replenishes items in the mini-bar ... all of those people might now be considered "team members" of your cabin stewards.

 

So, it would seem to me that this system has a lot of flaws, and would present an administrative nightmare for HAL to keep track of. It would be so much simplier to just say all tips, cash or auto-tip, goes into the pool to be distributed equally among the pool members.

 

But I guess there are just some things that are never meant to be clearly explained to us, and when we give someone a tip we just have to assume that it's the thought that counts ... not necessarily who will actually get to share in it.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[jtl513]

Even if he/she has that kind of memory, what happens to the envelope I hand the bartender or the waiter in the bar? This seems like it would be an extraordinary bookkeeping task for the cruise line. I'm more easily convinced that they pool all tips and dole them out accordingly or they simply allow individuals to keep the tips handed to them...autotip or not.

I've sat at the bar in the Crow's Nest and watched several waiters toss cash into a common jar. I believe that the same happens to end-of-cruise envelopes.

 

I was told by a wine stewardess on the Zuiderdam that ALL service charges and tips to the bar staff (i.e., 15% charges and extra cash) are pooled for the entire ship, regardless of where they are working. I believe it is that way on most (if not all) HAL ships. Note that this is NOT the same pool that is funded by the $11/p/d Hotel Service Charge - it is a separate pool for the bar staff only. The 15% charges included in the price of wine/cocktail/coffee cards sold on-line or anywhere on the ship also go into this pool.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

Let's be done with all this nonsense.

It is my sincere wish that HAL would abandon all onboard tipping completely. Just add an inclusive gratuity charge into my cruise fare to make sure all the staff are taken care of and be done with it.

The confusion on this thread is perfect testament to how insane the tipping process is. HAL should charge all passengers an appropriate, gratuity-inclusive fare and then take care of the wonderful crew.

It's supposed to be a "premium line" vacation. Why should I have to concern myself with how union-negotiated contracts in foreign countries affect net disbursements of discretionary gratuities to various ranks of staff? Good heavens.

Include the tip in the fare for all passengers. We can then write letters to Seattle (which we do) with the names of those deserving special recognition.

Pete

[Dodger Blue]

I don't disagree that it's a mess, but I'm trusting (I know that's a stretch!) that the money collected via autotip is dispersed by some formula among the staff. If the line simply increased the fare and said it includes tips, I'm not as confident it would filter down. The autotip is probably governed by some collective bargaining agreement and could be audited. If the cruise line decided that their costs were going up in some other area they could simply reduce what filters down to the deserving staff if it were included in the fare.

[BoiseIdahoSpud]

I don't disagree that it's a mess, but I'm trusting (I know that's a stretch!) that the money collected via autotip is dispersed by some formula among the staff. If the line simply increased the fare and said it includes tips, I'm not as confident it would filter down. The autotip is probably governed by some collective bargaining agreement and could be audited. If the cruise line decided that their costs were going up in some other area they could simply reduce what filters down to the deserving staff if it were included in the fare.

 

 

Right. Ultimately compensation is set between management and the staff/unions. It's up to them and I really don't care about the process or end result as long as the line employs the best people they can find and provides them appropriate compensation for the work they do.

[Pettifogger]

In principle, I think a passenger should be allowed to tip anyone he or she wants to tip and shouldn't be required to tip anyone he or she doesn't want to tip. Why a cruise line seeking passengers would want to coerce them with respect to their tipping escapes me. (I doubt that anyone can demonstrate that there is a net gain for anyone from the coercion.)

However, in practice, I found on a relatively long recent HAL cruise on one of its smaller ships that the level of service was both so high and so even that no one stood out much either above or below that high standard, so there was little need to single anyone out for a special reward or exclusion. (I didn't think of it at the time, but on my next cruise, I'll ask the purser to modestly increase my contribution to the pool. If my experience then is not as good as last time, I'll have rewarded the staff of the wrong ship, but still I'll have done the right thing even if in favor of the wrong people.)

I've cruised on both mass market and premium lines and the staff performance on the others was never nearly as even as on HAL; on those lines a few of the staff were exceptional, most were good and a few were not.

I attribute that high standard to someone's stroke of genius in establishing the school in Indonesia; perhaps they weed out all of the slackers before they ever see a ship. I was, for a time, a sergeant in the Marines and the camaraderie of the HAL staff coming out of the school in Indonesia seems to be not unlike that of Marines coming out of boot camp.

Because the HAL staff is so close to equal in performance, I am, in practice, much less opposed to a mandatory pool for their tips than I am in principle; if they perform equally, rewarding them all equally doesn't seem inappropriate. But, in cost terms, I was coming more or less laterally to HAL; someone coming from one of the very expensive lines might see things differently.

[CowPrincess]

In principle, I think a passenger should be allowed to tip anyone he or she wants to tip and shouldn't be required to tip anyone he or she doesn't want to tip.

 

Unfortunately, under the old system, far far FAR too many people didn't want to tip anyone. And HAL had the stupid "tipping not required" approach to it, where other cruise lines more or less told you how much to tip. LOTS of people took "tipping not required" as reinforcement for their position on not tipping.

 

Even on our recent cruise, people were at the Front Desk having autotips removed because "I found crumbs on the floor in the Lido, your staff is no good" and "I needed ketchup and the bottle was emptry" and "I've had to wait for my meal every night". And sure enough, the dining room was missing about 1/3 of the pax on the final night :( So at least some people had removed autotips and decided to not tip at all.

[Pettifogger]

CowPrincess: I wasn't defending the "freeriders"; I would have no objection to a rule which required tipping $11 a day or even a bit more, but allowed the passenger to distribute that amount to whomever among the staff he or she wished.

[CowPrincess]

CowPrincess: I wasn't defending the "freeriders"; I would have no objection to a rule which required tipping $11 a day or even a bit more, but allowed the passenger to distribute that amount to whomever among the staff he or she wished.

 

I suspect that it would end up similar to the current situation -- others would share in the tips, regardless of how the passenger specified they were to be distributed. For example, if a few of the waiters started tipping the kitchen staff so their orders were moved ever-so-slightly ahead in the line-up, soon all waiters would feel that was needed. At least as it is now, there's not obvious preferential treatment of a certain group of waiters or cabin stewards or .... :)

[ON cruiser]

When on the Maasdam a week ago, I asked the Guest Relations Manager about tips. She confirmed that, if the auto-tip was left in place, whatever was handed to staff was for them to keep as and however they wished. The GRM also made it clear that from a corporate perspective, the $11.00 pp, pd is concisered to be sufficient and there is no expectation, nor obligation, to give more.

 

That any extra goes to the individual does not preclude, as some have said earlier in this thread, that the wait-staff may amongst themselves collectively decide to pool such additional tips, or that the cabin stewards do likewise. But, from the perspective of management, it was made clear to me that so long as the auto-tip is in place, whatever one may choose to give to an individual, it is up to the individual (and perhaps his/her peers) to do with it as he/she chooses. I have heard the same from other ship management and believe this to be true. Whatever is done on Princess may not be the same as HAL, and so is less relevant to this discussion.

 

What we do, if anyone is interested in our perspective after 17 HAL cruises, is as follows. Of course, this approach is what we do since the auto-grat was introduced, following the end of the "tipping not required" policy. If we have enjoyed the service--and this last time on the Maasdam we certainly did--we hand envelopes on the last night to our cabin stewards, dining room stewards, and wine steward. I know that the wine steward gets the 15% from our orders, but at dinner he took good care of us. Whatever he is obliged to do with the extra bills I gave him is up to him, and between him and his peers, and is of no concern or interest to me.

 

We also tipped the "yum-yum" guy on the Maasdam, on some cruises we do and some we don't depending upon the personality and helpfulness of the indivdual. The yum-yum guy on the Maasdam, Andy, we often saw in the Lido and he was so friendly and cheerful, and remembering our preference for a piece of ginger after each dinner, that we felt--our personal preference--that he deserved something. As we were in a deluxe verandah suite, we also tipped the two Neptune concierges for their services.

 

We do not ever tip officers. I include in that anyone in a "white coat", such as the dining room section head, the Sommelier, and certainly the dining room manager. Mind you, if a section head did something extra-ordinary, I might tip but believe an individual at that level would appreciate more a letter of commendation to head office.

 

Hope this perspective helps. Of course, there are no wrong or right answers here--tipping at sea, as on land, is a very personal choice. Do whatever feels right to you, and enjoy your cruise without sweating the details of who gets which percentage of what, or how it all works. That too me sounds too much like work--and we cruise to escape work!!

 

Cheers, and happy cruising!

[cruz chic]

Even on our recent cruise, people were at the Front Desk having autotips removed because "I found crumbs on the floor in the Lido, your staff is no good" and "I needed ketchup and the bottle was emptry" and "I've had to wait for my meal every night". And sure enough, the dining room was missing about 1/3 of the pax on the final night :( So at least some people had removed autotips and decided to not tip at all.

It's amazing how people justify removing their tips. One lady at my table on my recent Statendam cruise said that no one tipped her at her job so she was going to remove her auto tips. Her profession was being a nurse. Kinda different I think. Our waiters were VERY good and I tipped above the auto tip in appreciation. She said she would tip if someone like her cabin steward did something extra. Her example was if he went out and got her something....WHAT! It took all I have to keep my big mouth shut. Some people will use any excuse to not tip. This is unreal to me.

[Krazy Kruizers]

In principle, I think a passenger should be allowed to tip anyone he or she wants to tip and shouldn't be required to tip anyone he or she doesn't want to tip.

.

 

For many years HAL boasted in all their brochures that tipping was not required. Many people did not tip anything extra at all anywhere on the ship.

All too often we wacthed on the final night as the crew began to sing their farewell song, many people got up and left the dining room -- not bothering with dessert -- and not tipping. One time when our waitstaff came back to our area their happy smiles on their faces quickly disappeared -- we were the only ones still there.

That was before auto tips and the crew really depended on that extra money.

[Taxguy77]

For many years HAL boasted in all their brochures that tipping was not required. Many people did not tip anything extra at all anywhere on the ship.

All too often we wacthed on the final night as the crew began to sing their farewell song, many people got up and left the dining room -- not bothering with dessert -- and not tipping. One time when our waitstaff came back to our area their happy smiles on their faces quickly disappeared -- we were the only ones still there.

That was before auto tips and the crew really depended on that extra money.

 

"That was before auto tips".

Yes, as the shipping co. doesn't pay a living wage. They depend on the pax to pay it.:mad:

I leave the auto tip intact ( I added it to the TOTAL costs of the cruise) and only tip for exceptional extra service.

[Taxguy77]

I wish HAL would officially clear this up for us. I, and I assume some others, prefer tipping people to tipping pools. It's not the grand presentation, I would rather leave the tips to be distributed to the recipients after I left the ship. But I would be considerably more generous if I could be confident that the money was going to those to whom I wanted it to go because they earned it. If HAL told me that I can't give it to those to whom I want to give it, it's their cruise line and I don't question their right to run it any way they want. But the uncertainty leaves me with feeling that I may be doing too much or too little.

 

I believe they have on their website and their onboard literature.

[kryos]

Unfortunately, under the old system, far far FAR too many people didn't want to tip anyone. And HAL had the stupid "tipping not required" approach to it, where other cruise lines more or less told you how much to tip. LOTS of people took "tipping not required" as reinforcement for their position on not tipping.

I'm one of the few people who honestly believes that HAL's going to the auto-tip format actually resulted in most onboard service people getting a greater tip income, rather than a smaller one. There are a lot of people who, if they had a graceful way of doing so, would gladly tip zilch. The auto-tip serves to "embarrass" them into tipping since it requires them to go down to the front desk and take proactive action to have the tips removed. They have to deal with the possibility of other passengers giving them dirty looks, and then also having to explain to the front desk person why they want their tips removed.

 

I was very surprised to hear that passengers who obviously have the means to take longer cruises will often reduce their auto-tips because they feel that such a large amount per person is way out of line for tips. On our cruise, the auto-tip was $350 each. Some people, from what I understand, were balking about that, considering it excessive. Well, yeah, maybe for a seven-day cruise it would be. But, duh! This was a 35-day cruise ... not an excessive amount at all.

 

But I tend to think, and hope, that these types of passengers are in the minority and that most people tip based on service. If the service is satisfactory, then by all means tip the recommended amount. Then, if you want to sweeten the pot for some special individuals, go ahead and do so. And if you don't, well that's fine too.

 

Blue skies ...

 

--rita

[Taxguy77]

I am curious to hear what they say about this issue. Do let us know, because I'd like to hear what they say, especially in writing. But like Ruth said, getting accurate info from Seattle may be tough to do. I've called a couple of times about the missing excursions for our cruise, and I've heard everything from "they are sold out," to "don't know what's going on." You'd think someone in the home offices could explain why excursions aren't being offered on a couple of islands for our cruise, when they are being offered to the other cruises sailing earlier and later than us.

 

H---, they don't know (or care) about what's at the end of the gangplank. On a recent cruise we were given the WRONG information at 2 or 4 ports out of 6 ports!:eek:

Cost us missing some of the cruise!:mad:

[Taxguy77]

let's be done with all this nonsense.

it is my sincere wish that hal would abandon all onboard tipping completely. Just add an inclusive gratuity charge into my cruise fare to make sure all the staff are taken care of and be done with it.

the confusion on this thread is perfect testament to how insane the tipping process is. Hal should charge all passengers an appropriate, gratuity-inclusive fare and then take care of the wonderful crew.

it's supposed to be a "premium line" vacation. Why should i have to concern myself with how union-negotiated contracts in foreign countries affect net disbursements of discretionary gratuities to various ranks of staff? Good heavens.

include the tip in the fare for all passengers. We can then write letters to seattle (which we do) with the names of those deserving special recognition.

pete

 

amen!

[Pettifogger]

Taxguy77: I'm embarrassed to say that I can't find it on the HAL website. Would you be kind enough to give me a tip as to where it is? thanks.