Does NCL not need the business?

[SueSea]

Someone brought up the analogy of cars. Car dealers do things differently, of course, but I know of several that, if you want to, you can return your car within a certain time (usually 3 days), and put the money down toward a more expensive model. And, that is with a product that, usually, depreciates over time, or, at best, stays the same.

 

In this case, the price of the suite had gone up since December. So, in fact, this product didn't depreciate over time.... it appreciated. We didn't flinch at that... we understood we'd have to pay the full price TODAY -- that totally makes sense. But, to expand upon the analogy above, if I bought a car from the dealer and he offered to include 12 free car washes over a year, returned it two days later (as per his policy), and bought a car that cost over twice the original one, I'd wonder if he said "and by the way, no car washes for you!". Even if the carwash promotion had expired, you'd think he'd want to make this customer, who has now demonstrated a greater willingness to spend money in his establishment, happy.

 

To take this one step further, let's say you tell the car dealer you are aware his promotion has ended, you found another dealer offering the same car with the car washes and a lower price. You had better believe that the price of the first dealer's car would come down. He would probably also offer to wash your car himself!

 

Many business have flexibility in pricing. When I bought my TV, I found the best price at an online retailer, then printed it out & took it to a local appliance store. I priced the same TV and asked them what their best price was. It was much higher than the online store. They said it had been on sale a few weeks ago. When I mentioned I could get the same TV from someone else at a lower price, they told me to bring the ad in. I pulled out the quote and five minutes later I was buying my TV from them. If they had said no, I wouldn't have been mad. I just would have ordered it online. They decided a smaller profit was better than no profit, and gave me the deal. We all walked away happy.

[maggiecatenjay]

What a ridiculous post. Have you ever bought a car? From a dealer? Besides... the OP doesn't know for sure what NCL did or said, only what the TA SAYS NCL did or said. I think that the TA screwed up, and is blaming NCL....who although the booking didn't qualify for any OBC, nonetheless made a courtesy offer of $100 OBC. I think NCL was bending over backwards to help the customer, and the TA was ineffective. I know that NCL have been responsive when I've had issues (I'm not saying they're perfect, but I've been impressed with how they resolve things).

 

You would be well advised to take a look at CruisinGram's posts for a lesson on how to behave and post in a non inflammatory, non-personal, non-snarky manner.

 

In response to your question regarding a car dealer: Yes, I have bought cars from dealers. As a matter of fact I was married to a car dealer for many years (we are expecting our first grandchild we learned on Easter). I know all about the ins and outs and what lengths the dealership will or will not go to to sell/service a car.

 

As you can see by Jester's wife's post (just previous to mine) you are wrong about the TA 'screwing up.'

 

In my personal experience NCL has not bent ONE iota in any way, let alone backward toward good or even effectual customer service for me. To use your car dealership analogy:

 

• I am standing in the showroom... Balloons and flags galore. I have three important questions regarding the car I just made a deal on - the most expensive car I have ever purchased... and to boot, I purchased it for my niece who is so excited about it I could never dream of reneging on the deal.
  
• My first question just hangs there in the air... the echo dying.
  
• I look expectantly at my salesman (analogous to the TA) who was nice as pie until I signed on the dotted line: he just looks at me blankly. I ask again, politely. He says something vacuous that has nothing to do with my question.
  
• A little antsy, now I look at the showroom manager (NCL rep). I ask my question again, of him since I need the info to be sure of the procedure to drive the car off the lot.
  
• The manager says nothing but looks over at the salesman.
  
• The salesman starts cleaning his nails and whistling.
  
• I clear my throat. Nothing. I say "Excuse me, please." Nothing. I ask to speak to the owner (NCL supervisor...analogy). He just looks at the manager and salesman. Lips mashed together - white.
  

That's it. That's my experience through today. If I continue the analogy I go home, boot up my laptop and find a dealership-related forum and post my questions there and get anecdotes and opinions from which I then draw my own conclusions. (CC - and I must say CC has been invaluable to me... thanks to most of you.)

 

Congratulations to me.

 

Will I be spending tens of thousands of dollars at that dealership again (my group of 26 dollar expenditure is quite high as you can imagine)?

 

Will it stick in my craw that, because of circumstances dictated by love and commitment I was not in a position to 'cancel my deal?'

 

Will I live vicariously through somebody else who does, actually cancel a deal, costing the dealership substantial dollars because of a similar set of circumstances?

 

Absolutely, positively Not.

Ridiculous? Not.

[CruisnGram]

 

 

I'm not sure how the TA can be at fault here. The booking number was the same.

Yes, I suppose she could have confirmed about the OBC at the first go around, but I don't think she could have made any difference with the offer.

 

 

Sheila

 

What I mean by saying that this is the TA's fault, is that it is her job to know what NCL's policy is and to know in advance how every part of your reservation will be affected when you make a change to your reservation.

 

Those of us here on CC aren't TA's and we know enough to ask exactly how a prospective change is going to affect everything before we do it, so a TA who makes their living at such things should certainly be at least that savy.

 

You are right in the fact that it may not have changed anything in the long run, but at least you would have known up front what the upgrade was going to cost you. You wouldn't have been surprised. You could then made an informed decision whether to keep your original cabin, upgrade to the suite, or cancel. You may not have liked the policy, but I don't think that it would have left as bitter taste in your mouth as this whole issue has, and for that, I completely blame your TA.

 

I truly hope your family has a fabulous cruise! You deserve it after all this baloney. :)

 

CG

[SueSea]

When I have a product and too many people are begging me to sell it to them, I get to decide if I want to sell it to the guy who wants to pay me more - or to the guy who wants to pay me less.

I would make the same decision that NCL - my least favourite cruise line - made.

 

What current prices and promotions like onboard credit show us is that that people aren't begging to buy. NCL was willing to pay a new cruiser an onboard credit to get someone to book a cabin that was sitting empty. There is no guarantee that if the OP hadn't booked it, someone else would have. (I'm sailing on NCL Star in 2.5 weeks, and there are still unsold suites.) In the OP's case, they didn't have two parties interested in that cabin. Their decision was not whether they want to sell it to the guy who wants to pay more or the guy who wants to pay less. Their decision was do they take the sure thing? Do they take $3,000 and give up $300 onboard credit, or do they hold out and risk having to lower the price to sell it--or not sell it at all?

[halos]

In response to few of the above posts. The On Board Credit was a promotion to book on that cruise in December. I was still booked on the same cruise. Upgrading, was not a cancellation and re-booking. In fact there is a current promotion, that if I did cancel and re-book would of entitled me to a $150 On Board Credit for a Suite.

 

True OBCs are promotions, but they are part of the price. For my original $2,300 I was to receive a cabin and an additional $150 of goods and services. When a price quote was requested I should of been informed that I would not be receiving those additional services before I made my decision to pay the higher price.

 

In this instance the price for the Suite was even higher than it was in December. I was paying a higher full price. There really is no justification on NCL's part for removing the credit. But even if there was, reducing the value of what I was purchasing and not informing me of that fact prior to taking my money is not acceptable.

 

 

CruisnGram is correct in that I am past the point where a penalty is not applicable. In some ways I feel NCL breached our agreement in intent, if not in fact, by failing to disclose this reduction in value.

 

I want to be very clear. This is not sour grapes because I found a better bargain. I sincerely did not consider alternatives until this action occurred by NCL. We were fully invested in this trip and that is why I decided to do the upgrade. I was looking forward to doing free style. I am disappointed that I was treated significantly less than other customers just because I wanted to buy more from NCL.

 

Does it honestly make sense to charge more and give less than what is being provided to customers who booked at the same time and who are booking now?

 

I agree that taking away your OBC is not right. I think it sucks. I have heard this same thing on the Carnival Boards too though...people switch their cabins and for some reason, it is considered a new booking and all perks that came with the original booking disappear. I don't understand WHY the lines do this. You are giving them more money to stay in a better cabin, but they seem to punish you for it.

*shakes head*

The Travel Agent should have let you know all this up front, however. Like CruisnGram said, it may not have changed anything, but it's their JOB to know what they are doing and to inform you. You are paying them a commission for this.

 

I hope you have a nice time on the cruise you booked.

[BruceMuzz]

What current prices and promotions like onboard credit show us is that that people aren't begging to buy. NCL was willing to pay a new cruiser an onboard credit to get someone to book a cabin that was sitting empty. There is no guarantee that if the OP hadn't booked it, someone else would have. (I'm sailing on NCL Star in 2.5 weeks, and there are still unsold suites.) In the OP's case, they didn't have two parties interested in that cabin. Their decision was not whether they want to sell it to the guy who wants to pay more or the guy who wants to pay less. Their decision was do they take the sure thing? Do they take $3,000 and give up $300 onboard credit, or do they hold out and risk having to lower the price to sell it--or not sell it at all?

 

Having worked on cruise ships for 35 years, I have been through this scenario many many times. The most recent was just after 9/11, which turned out to be the busiest time the cruise industry had seen in decades.

 

Current prices and promotions REALLY tell us that the cruise lines are trying to manipulate the public to book earlier in order to get the better deal. The average mass market cruise line cabin sells an average of 8 times before it is finally occupied on each cruise. The cruising public is very fickle. They cancel, postpone, change ships, change dates, change categories, upgrade, downgrade, you name it. Cruise Line Sales people don't like the uncertainty of having to hold last minute sales in order to sell cabins just before a cruise.

 

And actually, there IS a guarantee of sorts that somebody else will book an empty cabin. For the past ten years it is extremely rare that any mass market cruise ship sails from the pier with any unsold cabins in any category. The most expensive cabins always sell out first. We always have a "sure thing".

I manage a ship that has over 2,000 passenger cabins. We have not had an unsold cabin in over a year. In March 2008 we had 2 inside cabins on one cruise that were not sold before sailing. We are heading to Europe this week and are already nearly fully booked for the entire summer - at rates that are nearly double from last year.

People are indeed begging to buy.

 

Despite the fact that I would rather rent a leaky canoe for a week than sail on an NCL ship, I can answer the OP's original question, "Does NCL not need the business?"

 

Answer: No they do not.

[spongerob]

I agree that taking away your OBC is not right. I think it sucks. I have heard this same thing on the Carnival Boards too though...people switch their cabins and for some reason, it is considered a new booking and all perks that came with the original booking disappear. I don't understand WHY the lines do this. You are giving them more money to stay in a better cabin, but they seem to punish you for it.

The incentive was provided to help sell inventory (cabins) that doesn't sell well. There probably isn't as much incentive needed to sell the best inventory (suites) and there might not be much need to get people to buy the cheapest. So, you give a sweetener to book the middle of the road cabins, because otherwise you'd have to lower the price, and those who booked the cheaper cabins would demand refunds or upgrades which is just a lot of work with no revenue benefit.

 

It's like selling cars. If you go in and want a plain-jane Malibu, you get a great discount. Change your mind and go for the 'vette, you lose the discount. They can sell the sports car easily, but that grocery-getter might sit on the lot for a long time. The incentive is tied to what you finally purchase.

 

Put it another way. You decide to buy 10 lbs of hamburger because it's $1 off per pound. If you then change your mind and by filet mignon, you probably won't get the discount.

[Mooder]

Having worked on cruise ships for 35 years, I have been through this scenario many many times. The most recent was just after 9/11, which turned out to be the busiest time the cruise industry had seen in decades.

 

Current prices and promotions REALLY tell us that the cruise lines are trying to manipulate the public to book earlier in order to get the better deal. The average mass market cruise line cabin sells an average of 8 times before it is finally occupied on each cruise. The cruising public is very fickle. They cancel, postpone, change ships, change dates, change categories, upgrade, downgrade, you name it. Cruise Line Sales people don't like the uncertainty of having to hold last minute sales in order to sell cabins just before a cruise.

 

And actually, there IS a guarantee of sorts that somebody else will book an empty cabin. For the past ten years it is extremely rare that any mass market cruise ship sails from the pier with any unsold cabins in any category. The most expensive cabins always sell out first. We always have a "sure thing".

I manage a ship that has over 2,000 passenger cabins. We have not had an unsold cabin in over a year. In March 2008 we had 2 inside cabins on one cruise that were not sold before sailing. We are heading to Europe this week and are already nearly fully booked for the entire summer - at rates that are nearly double from last year.

People are indeed begging to buy.

 

Despite the fact that I would rather rent a leaky canoe for a week than sail on an NCL ship, I can answer the OP's original question, "Does NCL not need the business?"

 

Answer: No they do not.

 

Very interesting (except for the leaky canoe bit :)). Thank you.

[JesterPlaying]

The more I read in this thread, the more i see some blinders regarding NCL. Maybe my TA should of asked the question of the NCL rep regarding the OBC. But as the seller, NCL, is actually obligated to provide that information whether asked or not.

 

I was buying from NCL and they did not fully disclose what I was going to receive for that price. If it is there policy to cancel and re-book, then they were fully aware that the credit was being removed. While my TA might know that policy, the NCL rep must know the policy.

 

To quote a price with a significant change in the terms, of which they had complete knowledge on, and were in sole possession of such knowledge, without disclosing such knowledge is deceptive. At the time they quoted the price it might have been an oversight. But prior to acceptance of my payment they needed to make me aware of any substantive changes. This was a unilateral change on the part of NCL without proper disclosure.

[JEDIKNIGHT]

WELL that was smart. They didn't get your $3,000.

 

Instead the "upsell fairy" will call someone and give it to them for a few 100 bucks.

[Mooder]

The more I read in this thread, the more i see some blinders regarding NCL. Maybe my TA should of asked the question of the NCL rep regarding the OBC. But as the seller, NCL, is actually obligated to provide that information whether asked or not.

 

I was buying from NCL and they did not fully disclose what I was going to receive for that price. If it is there policy to cancel and re-book, then they were fully aware that the credit was being removed. While my TA might know that policy, the NCL rep must know the policy.

 

To quote a price with a significant change in the terms, of which they had complete knowledge on, and were in sole possession of such knowledge, without disclosing such knowledge is deceptive. At the time they quoted the price it might have been an oversight. But prior to acceptance of my payment they needed to make me aware of any substantive changes. This was a unilateral change on the part of NCL without proper disclosure.

 

I agree with you on this post 100%. I think they have a communication issue regardless of what the policy is.

[WhansaMi]

I can't speak for Mike, only for myself, but, ultimately, for me, what it boiled down to was that I wanted to feel valued, as a customer. I am a person who, on many occasions, spends more money at one particular store than I would have to spend elsewhere, simply because I have a relationship with the owners/employees of the first store, and I feel like I (and my role as their customer) matters to them.

 

Maybe NCL (or, rather, its employees) usually do that, and we just got a bad customer service representative. But, ultimately, I think that if I had felt that the CSR was trying to do something -- anything -- to try and let us know we were valued as customers, it would have made a big difference.

 

Sheila

[SueSea]

Current prices and promotions REALLY tell us that the cruise lines are trying to manipulate the public to book earlier in order to get the better deal. The average mass market cruise line cabin sells an average of 8 times before it is finally occupied on each cruise. The cruising public is very fickle. They cancel, postpone, change ships, change dates, change categories, upgrade, downgrade, you name it. Cruise Line Sales people don't like the uncertainty of having to hold last minute sales in order to sell cabins just before a cruise.

 

And actually, there IS a guarantee of sorts that somebody else will book an empty cabin. For the past ten years it is extremely rare that any mass market cruise ship sails from the pier with any unsold cabins in any category. The most expensive cabins always sell out first. We always have a "sure thing".

 

I understand that cabins rarely go unsold. Cruise lines ensure they sell cabins by steeply discounting as sailing dates draw close. The upsell fairy gets a good workout calling people who are already booked and selling them higher categories at deep discounts. In the OP's case, he was willing to pay the advertised rate. Sure, NCL probably would have sold that cabin. But would they have sold it at $3000? Possibly. It's also possible that the upgrade fairy would be peddling it for a much lower price.

 

And far as manipulating the public to book earlier and keep their booking, the only cruise line actually doing that is Carnival with their Early Saver pricing. They offer a discounted price with a guarantee of getting any price drop, but with the penalty of losing your deposit if you cancel. All other promotions are to designed to sell cabins, period.

[blackerbys17]

And far as manipulating the public to book earlier and keep their booking, the only cruise line actually doing that is Carnival with their Early Saver pricing. They offer a discounted price with a guarantee of getting any price drop, but with the penalty of losing your deposit if you cancel. All other promotions are to designed to sell cabins, period.

 

WOW, really? That is really good to know. I think my next cruise will be on Carnival. Thanks for the tip! :)

[dtracker]

WOW, really? That is really good to know. I think my next cruise will be on Carnival. Thanks for the tip! :)

 

Maybe the rest should follow suit! ;)

 

DT

[blackerbys17]

Maybe the rest should follow suit! ;)

 

DT

 

Let's hope their listening!

[maggiecatenjay]

You would be well advised to take a look at CruisinGram's posts for a lesson on how to behave and post in a non inflammatory, non-personal, non-snarky manner.

 

Why must posts degrade toward the personal? It's quite juvenile and frankly, sad.