RCCL- No more FODs??

Looks like RCCL is getting into hot water again with GLBT cruisers:

http://www.southernvoice.com/thelatest/thelatest.cfm?blog_id=4136

__

I'll be darned. Royal Caribbean really wants your business, doesn't it?

Keep supporting this nasty giant like you are my fellow gay and lesbian travelers. You are going to get more than an absurd rock wall to climb from this organization.

I am not sure what the posting rules are here, but since I posted the link above, I will copy the whole article below in case the link goes dead one day. It's from Southern Voice, Atlanta's gay rag. Hope this is OK. :

Royal Caribbean upsets gay couple

Refusal to include announcement of gay gathering called ‘not gay friendly’

BY PHIL LaPADULA | Dec 20, 8:10 AM

When Burton Merrifield and Fredric Berger embarked on a five-day cruise aboard Royal Caribbean International’s Enchantment of the Seas, the Oakland Park, Fla., gay couple thought a good way to meet other gay passengers on the ship would be to post a notice for a “Friends of Dorothy” meeting in the ship’s newsletter, Compass.

But when their request to post the notice was denied, they were less than enchanted with a cruise line that they thought had a gay-friendly reputation.

In a complaint letter to Royal Caribbean’s director of customer relations, Chuck Baker, Merrifield said he thought the cruise line’s refusal to include the gay event announcement in its newsletter was “discrimination.” At the very least, he said, it is “not gay friendly.”

Merrifield noted that Atlantis Events, a gay vacation events company, charters Royal Caribbean ships.

Leslie Katz, a manager in Royal Caribbean’s corporate communications department, insisted that no slight of gay passengers was intended. She said it was Royal Caribbean’s policy to include only company-sponsored events in the newsletter. She said the one exception to that rule is the inclusion of Friends of Bill W. meetings, which are alcoholics anonymous meetings.

Katz said the company has also rejected passenger requests to include announcements for other types of events, such as family reunions.

“We can’t include a myriad number of announcements or we wouldn’t be able to get the newsletter out in a timely manner,” Katz said. “It was just a matter of logistics. It truly was not a slight.”

But Merrifield noted that the newsletter listed meetings for honeymooners, singles, cigar aficionados, bridge players.

He said he got the idea for the “Friends of Dorothy” meeting from gay friends who organized such a gathering on a Royal Caribbean cruise to Alaska.

He said the Enchantment of the Seas’ director of guest relations, Gary Huyton, told him that the company used to list “Friends of Dorothy” meetings but a new policy now only allows listings for nationally recognized groups.

Katz said the company would review the policy and would “look into the ship sponsoring a gay gathering in the future.”

__

Thanks for the link. Homophobia rears its ugly head again. You can be sure my partner and I will never sail with RCCL.

We cruise 3 or 4 times a year and we have always had good experiences on Cunard, Holland America, and Celebrity. Whether the cruises have been all gay, gay group, or straight, we haven't felt much homophobia. We better all stick together and report these incidents in hopes of calmer seas ahead. Happy cruising to all our GLBT friends.

Seaelf:)

I dont know if I agree on your "take' on this issue..

I wonder if my husbands mother, whom is an AVID "Red Hat" member, could convince them to put an entry for a Red Hat Meeting in the daily newsletter....

If the answer to that question is "yup" then there is definitely something going on here...

However, my first reaction to the article is understanding that EVERYONE would be making requests for entries in the news letter if we were allowed to...

I, myself, just got married on a cruise... I would loved to have been able to ask them to put the initial 'all aboard' gathering, the rehearsal dinner and maybe even the wedding & reception time and location (with an 'invite only' notation) in the newsletter

..

Imagine everyone on that ship who wanted to organize a gathering that way...it could take too much time and there could, potentially, be too many requests....

I fully agree with sas80. I have sailed with RCCL 7 times and never ever had the feeling that being gay was an issue for anybody. My sexual preference doesn´t qualify me for a better treatment or I should say for a different treatment than any other passenger. In fact, I don´t want to be treated differently. I want to be treated like everybody else. RCCL sure does that in every aspect!

On my last cruise in May of this year ( Brilliance, Transatlantic ) we had about 4 official FOD meetings (not that we really needed one, because there were about 80 gays/lesbians on board and "we" were basically everywhere and sure could not be missed if the gaydars were out. We only had the meetings because we were so many and one or two of us thought it would be fun to get together "officially". They talked to the cruise director and he posted it. No big deal. We all laughed about it seeing "us" posted directly underneath "Friends of Bill W". If the CD would have refused to do so, it would have been OK as well, because most of us met anyway.

Once again. We finally arrived in the 21st century and in many places on this planet being gay is something normal. So why ask for "special treatment"?

As has been reported here many times, someone somewhere on ANY cruise line gets turned down by some homophobic cruise director when requesting this at least once a month or so ( as seen here)... I'm not defending RCI - I'm just saying you read these boards long enough and you hear the same complaint about almost every cruise line... it's the ship, more than the line. I've had RCI cruise directors who couldn't have been more helpful about throwing an FOD... and a couple that used that same tired line they always give about not being able to schedule anything but Bill W.. they all use the same excuse when they don't want to do it.

We've cruised NCL 3 times, with a 4th soon to come.

FoD meetings don't have to be requested...they're included in the Freestyle Daily from day 1.

Each cruise has had between 4 - 7 meetings scheduled. There's no more reason from AA members to have a special meeting space, than for FoD. The key is that these people have something in common, which is in the minority, and is not easily made visible.

Red Hat (whatever that is) members could simply WEAR a red hat, and would therefore be instantly recognizable to each other.

Since there's no way to identifiy other "family" members, the FoD gathering is useful to form acquaintenceships onboard.

As for special treatment, etc. There is no treatment. The line in the Freestyle simply indicates that if FoDs want to meet, 7p.m. in the Star Bar would be a good time / place.

Why each cruiseline can't do that, I'll never understand.

stephen

My Partner and I were on RCCL in May on Adventure out of San Juan. I had requested a FOD gathering about 2 months ahead of time, got no response. I ask again, with no response. So I emailed the captain, he responded and said he would look into it. When we were on board, nothing would show up in the daily rag, so I ask agian. I felt that the purser was put out by having to possibly do something for a gay person. His attitude was horrible. So again I went to the captain. Finally on the last night of the cruise,at 10pm they offered one. Idiots! the purser arrived and the few of us that made it all blasted him for not having it sooner. Poor guy left the room with his head hanging very low. I also filed a complaint with the CEO of RCCL.

We are going on a Princess cruise in Feb and I have already told them that about 15 couple would be on board and I wanted to see a FOD party the 1st or 2nd night. I will also forward that note to the CEO of Pricess, of course with all the cruise lines being owned by one company it seems I suppose it will be the same person. I will have to look that up.

Okay, that's my 2 cents and more.

I hear you.

Since there's no way to identifiy other "family" members, the FoD gathering is useful to form acquaintenceships onboard.

Sure there is! You could wear your "I'm not gay but my GF (BF) is" shirt everyday along with your rainbow socks! :D :p

Obviously people will have different experiences - saying that...if it walks like a homophobe, talks like a hpmophobe & ACTS like a homophobe.....

I believe in putting your $$$$ where it counts.....RCCL has a track record here( a bad one).

I also note RRCL's treatment of the misssing groom on a recent cruise & the incident on a Halloween weekend cruise last year out of LA when a gay man was bashed & insulted.

I am not a fan of NCL product - but on the Dawn's New Year cruise - each of the 10 days there was a FOD in the Star Bar. We only went once & no one else showed - but every day the notice was published in the Daily Program . Would I sail NCL again - no - because it just wasn't our to our taste - I would reccommend them to others tho. Can't say the same about RCCL!

Obviously people will have different experiences - saying that...if it walks like a homophobe, talks like a hpmophobe & ACTS like a homophobe.....

I believe in putting your $$$$ where it counts.....RCCL has a track record here( a bad one).

I also note RRCL's treatment of the misssing groom on a recent cruise & the incident on a Halloween weekend cruise last year out of LA when a gay man was bashed & insulted.

I am not a fan of NCL product - but on the Dawn's New Year cruise - each of the 10 days there was a FOD in the Star Bar. We only went once & no one else showed - but every day the notice was published in the Daily Program . Would I sail NCL again - no - because it just wasn't our to our taste - I would reccommend them to others tho. Can't say the same about RCCL!

I personally do not need a FOD party on a ship...if I need a gay experience I go on a gay charter (Atlantis or RSVP). If I am going on a non gay cruise (if such a thing exists, then I go expecting to be just one of the passengers and I will acknowldge FOD as I would at a hotel or resort. I do not see Mariotts or Hiltons scheduling FOD in their on property bar....bless gaydar.

If....the request for a gathering is just a general request ...that FOD will gather at a particular place at a particular time...then I do not see why a cruise line or particular ship or Cruise director should care. It would just be providing a convenience.

If...the request or purpose to reserve a room, or monopolize a part of the ship...then I have a problem with this. Ships have conference centers that can be used to monopolize a piece of the ship and they should be used as such. I for one am turned off when I go to a room such as an observation lounge only to be confronted with a sign that says...closed, private party. I paid for the ship, the entire ship and not whats left. The last cruise I took on NCL had 3 major groups on board. Each group reserved a different lounge each and every night on a rotation basis. This shut out the non group passengers to find somewhere else to go each evening during the entire cruise....and the three rooms where the choice spaces on the ship. My dissatisfaction expressed to the Hotel Manager and Chief Purser was met with....business is business. I no longer sail NCL.

In general, I do not feel that any"public room" on a ship should be reserved...just my opinion. Once again, if its just a note that anyone interested should gather here or there......whats the big deal.

But if we as a part of society start making demand...we want this, we want that or else.......then I think we are treading on thin ice. But then there will always be someone dissatisfied. I just got off the RSSC Voyager, it was brought to my attention that the daily paper listed an FOD party that night...it happened to be the last night of the cruise. I have never seen ascheduled FOD on this line before...I was very surprised considering the number of passengers is so small...anyone with any sense of Gaydar can pick out the FOD and strike up a conversation. Well the next thing I heard was complaints.......how dare they schedule this so late...it should have been this...it should have been that.

Me, as long as I get what is provided in the cruise lines contract, room and board, decent service and no attitude from staff who see me as gay...then I am getting what I paid for.

I am sure I will get shot down for my opinion, but I figure if you dont like a cruise line....switch to another...heaven knows there are so many to choose from....avoid the stress...thats what taking a vacation is all about......not a venue to get stressed over.

To all, Happy Holidays....enjoy the ship, enjoy the weather and only fight if you are miss treated, disrespected or denied that which you paid for in your cruise contract.

Tom

Obviously people will have different experiences - saying that...if it walks like a homophobe, talks like a hpmophobe & ACTS like a homophobe.....

 

I believe in putting your $$$$ where it counts.....RCCL has a track record here( a bad one).

 

I also note RRCL's treatment of the misssing groom on a recent cruise & the incident on a Halloween weekend cruise last year out of LA when a gay man was bashed & insulted.

 

I am not a fan of NCL product - but on the Dawn's New Year cruise - each of the 10 days there was a FOD in the Star Bar. We only went once & no one else showed - but every day the notice was published in the Daily Program . Would I sail NCL again - no - because it just wasn't our to our taste - I would reccommend them to others tho. Can't say the same about RCCL!

I'm with Rotterdam on this one. While I did enjoy the Dawn and am going again in 11 days, I liked the fact that they put the FOD gathering in the daily every one of the 10 days. I don't understand why other lines can't do the same thing as NCL. It cost the line nothing. They merely listed the gathering for a specific time in a specific bar. No rooms were reserved, food provided or Officers required (though some of them would have been more than welcome!). They get an "A" for effort.

I agree that it is annoying to have a room or lounge blocked off for a specific group. But NCL seems to have a good solution. The bar is open to the entire ship. It is just a nice way for people to meet up if gaydar fails. We met several people and enjoyed the trip. I believe they also had gatherings on the Dawn for singles, firemen/policemen and cigar smokers (how do I get invited to those groups!!!).

I just have to say that I have been on both a full gay charter (Atlantis) and 6 other non-chartered cruises (RCCL and Carnival). I think that is should be a staple event along with the Friends of Bill meetings. I do not think that the place where the event is held should be closed to the public this gathering of people with a "common" interest (that others may share that are not only gay but straight as well). You can not tell me that with the size of most ships that are sailing now, they can not find a small place to have a gathering of people with the same interests. I know they can not meet everyone requests but if you think about this, most of the people that come onboard that are "red hats" are organized by a local group and they know they are on board. ? People that are getting married should all be in the same group and know how to contact each other. This is not true with us homosexuals we all don't live in one town or all know each other. This is truly a touchy subject. What about all the Harley riders out there?? I could go on. Where do you draw the line? This is a hard to say honestly if most of the other lines are holding FOD meetings without a request then I think RCCL should wake up. I also think it is kind of ridiculous that they charter almost exclusively to Atlantis and won’t schedule an FOD without a request. HUMMM It pains me to say this, because I do like RCCL ships, but maybe the owner of Atlantis should look elsewhere and take his dollars with him. Just because they will soon have the biggest ship on the market is not a big enough draw for me to choose RCCL.

And another point…

I am sorry to say I don’t own anything with a rainbow on it so that would prevent me from displaying a something that would alert everyone to my sexual orientation. I also don't think it would be fair that I would have to make something visible to alert the public of the fact I am gay. If that is the solution that is presented then I think it is only fair that "we" ask all the heterosexual people to wear a brown belt with black shoes or something to alert the fact that you are not homosexual. The bottom line here is education and acceptance of different beliefs and customs. Honestly, I don’t really have the time or the energy to care about what everyone else does in their spare time. It’s their life I hope they are enjoying it as much as I enjoy mine. You only get one folks!

Just to add my 2 cents for what it is worth. I have been on both RCCL & Disney cruises and will be sailing on RCCL w/Atlantis in Jan. Would have liked to see FOD meetings on these cruises as they would have been an easy way to possibly meet dinner partners that might have made eating with strangers more comfortable. But out of all the cruises we have been on we have seen many other GLBT couples and when we say HI or smile in an elevator get back attitude. Would having a meeting place made that any better?

We have been together for 15 years and go on cruises to have a relaxing vacation. If we see other couples on board we are going to say HI and hopefully make friends that we can visit with for the rest of the cruise and maybe keep in touch with after we get home. We always say hello to everyone we meet and have always been treated exceptionally by all the crew that we have come in contact with. We actually had 2 Disney cruise members on our last RCCL cruise that were covering vacations and they remembered us and really made our trip extra special. They went out of there way to make us feel like we were the only people sailing on that cruise.

Anyway maybe just greeting people with a hello and a smile would go a long way to making for possible social gatherings while on board than having the CD post a meeting time.

Michael & Don

Okay, having never done a nongay cruise, thus never needing a preset place to meet gay people, I have a couple practical questions.

When a ship does include a FOD meeting, does it actually say "FOD" or "Friend Of Dorothy" or what?

"FOD" really seems obscure except for those of us familiar with it from these boards - even "Friend of Dorothy" is probably a mystery to most under 50. That is NOT a judgemental statement, but ask 10 friends if they know what "FOD" is.

To me, if a non-gay cruise mentions a meeting it should be a "Gay" meet and greet or you demonstrate internalized homophobia that homophobic cruise directors are accused of. They don't want to mention "FOD", yet many wanting "FOD" would freak if it said "Gay".

This most is truly not meant to be argumentative -- it is just an interesting topic.

in the fact that RCCL is becoming more and more of a "family" ( not the FOD kind) cruise line. Along with this come the protests of the right wing groups like the AFA which are now again boycotting Ford Motor Co. When a line has invested the money that they do into the enhancements, they are going to play to that particular group I.e now having rock climbing wall, ice rinks, surfing, Jonny Rockets, Ben & Jerrys etc...These are all geared to the idea of the "Traditional Family", not real families.

I've never cruised on one of the really large ships, and I prefer Celebrity (even if it is a RCCL company) because of the intimacy of the ships and the low number of children. Maybe the time has come to make a statement and claim a line like Celebrity to patronize.

Personally I have never attended a FOD. My partner and I have never had a problem and Celebrity has always been gracious to provide the anniversary cake and the singing waiters on our anniversary trips. The last trip to the PNW 9/16/05; we were married in Nanaimo, BC on our 9th anniversary. Our tablemates, although seemingly conservative, not only bought champaign to help us celebrate, gave us hugs and handshakes. One couple who had heard what we were doing even stood outside the diningroom door with a bottle of champaign untill we arrived for the second seating.

I do disagree with the way RCCL handled this latest ordeal. I don't think it would be that difficult to list a FOD meeting, and I do not think it is considered preferential treatment. I do think that we might come up with a universal meeting at some point. Say the first night in between seatings at the pool bar, or something like this.

As I said I have never attended a FOD ,so thats my suggestion. We usually run into 'family' but thats not our main objective. We are on vacation, we enjoy the company of all we meet; gay or straight.

Dave:eek:

in the fact that RCCL is becoming more and more of a "family" ( not the FOD kind) cruise line. Along with this come the protests of the right wing groups like the AFA which are now again boycotting Ford Motor Co. When a line has invested the money that they do into the enhancements, they are going to play to that particular group I.e now having rock climbing wall, ice rinks, surfing, Jonny Rockets, Ben & Jerrys etc...These are all geared to the idea of the "Traditional Family", not real families.

I've never cruised on one of the really large ships, and I prefer Celebrity (even if it is a RCCL company) because of the intimacy of the ships and the low number of children. Maybe the time has come to make a statement and claim a line like Celebrity to patronize.

Personally I have never attended a FOD. My partner and I have never had a problem and Celebrity has always been gracious to provide the anniversary cake and the singing waiters on our anniversary trips. The last trip to the PNW 9/16/05; we were married in Nanaimo, BC on our 9th anniversary. Our tablemates, although seemingly conservative, not only bought champaign to help us celebrate, gave us hugs and handshakes. One couple who had heard what we were doing even stood outside the diningroom door with a bottle of champaign untill we arrived for the second seating.

I do disagree with the way RCCL handled this latest ordeal. I don't think it would be that difficult to list a FOD meeting, and I do not think it is considered preferential treatment. I do think that we might come up with a universal meeting at some point. Say the first night in between seatings at the pool bar, or something like this.

As I said I have never attended a FOD ,so thats my suggestion. We usually run into 'family' but thats not our main objective. We are on vacation, we enjoy the company of all we meet; gay or straight.

Dave:eek:

Okay, having never done a nongay cruise, thus never needing a preset place to meet gay people, I have a couple practical questions.

When a ship does include a FOD meeting, does it actually say "FOD" or "Friend Of Dorothy" or what?

"FOD" really seems obscure except for those of us familiar with it from these boards - even "Friend of Dorothy" is probably a mystery to most under 50. That is NOT a judgemental statement, but ask 10 friends if they know what "FOD" is.

To me, if a non-gay cruise mentions a meeting it should be a "Gay" meet and greet or you demonstrate internalized homophobia that homophobic cruise directors are accused of. They don't want to mention "FOD", yet many wanting "FOD" would freak if it said "Gay".

This most is truly not meant to be argumentative -- it is just an interesting topic.

That's really quite funny. My DP and I went through almost our ENTIRE first cruise wondering who Bill W & Dorothy were...they were so important their friends get-togethers were listed in the Freestyle Daily.

It wasn't until the 2nd-last day that I had a :eek: moment, and realized...HEY! That's US! :cool:

Then I researched who Bill W. was, and realized the AA affiliation. I suggested to NCL that they list the meets as "Friends of Dorothy / Rainbow something" So far they've suggested that FoD is sufficient, and frankly, it seems to have been...on our subsequent cruises.

Thanks for taking my post as intended. Like I said, I've only done gay cruises -- EVERY item on a daily schedule is a FOD get together.

That's really quite funny. My DP and I went through almost our ENTIRE first cruise wondering who Bill W & Dorothy were....

I see that Mike@sea has indicated that RCCL did have FOD meetings on his spring transatlantic crossing (eastbound) on the Brilliance. Well, I did the transatlantic crossing (westbound) on the Brilliance this past November and they refused to have an FOD meeting. There must have been at least 30 family members. Cruise Director (Peter Benfield) repeatedly indicated that it was against company policy. After a few days, he indicated that he would allow an unofficial gathering at the Starquest Lounge at midnight and it would "not" be announced on the Compass. News of it would have to be spread by word of mouth. Therefore, it was not hosted and basically it was up to us to introduce ourselves to each other.

We did indeed find each other eventually. It just took a few days for most of us to meet.

I am not in the argument of "for" or "against" FOD meets, although I will admit that it would be nice to have one or two. I just find RCI's excuse strange since it seems that all other lines schedule FOD's at one time or another without any problems or worries about everybody else requesting a meet for their group.

Everyone has an opinion and we are all entitled to it; no one is right or wrong. However, I will indicate that I cruise for the experience and fun as a whole and whether or not there's an FOD meet does not break or distract from my experience. But it does help.

Regards To All

Sorry, but this is definitely RCCL's way of saying "gays you might want to go elsewhere." The F.O.D. reference is pretty vague and I only knew about it from these boards. My last cruise was NCL and the FOD meetings were just listed matter-of-factly. Was a big help to someone like me who has terrible Gaydar.

I've never been that big a fan of RCCL (been on them twice now), I'm less of one now.

As you can see from my signature, I have done an assortment of gay and straight cruises. While I do not *need* the FOD meeting to have a good cruise, it certainly has added to some of them. On one NCL Sun sailing, there was 40-something of us and our get togethers were quite a good time. We made some friends we still keep in touch with from across the country.

As stated above, you cannot generalize that any particular cruise line is "gay-friendly" or "non-gay-friendly". Each one of the mainstream lines has many documented cases in each direction. Someone above mentions NCL always includes it in the Freestyle: Not True. Perhaps in your sailings you were so fortunate, but on some of my sailings with them I have had to make the request and on one sailing we were flat refused by the cruise director. He suggested we go around the ship and find others to request a FOD gathering and when he had enough requests he would "consider it"! How is that for gay friendly? At NCL it rests with the Captain and the Cruise Director.

Someone else above mentions "No RCCL for us" and goes on to mention Celebrity in a positive light. RCCL wholly owns Celebrity, so you are still supporting RCCL. Because their are so few cruise companies and because they all have such mixed track records, I think the couple that took it to the presses have the right idea. Silently voting with your feet does nothing. A straight couple will book the cabin you just cancelled and the cruise line could care less because the cabin sold. Causing the public relations stir that this couple have done is just the way to get their attention and change policy.

And by the way, you have to wonder who was in charge of thinking that day when they dreamed up this "new" policy. Someone needs more than sensitivity training!

Bombard RCCL with email protests and for those of you with a public outlet for your voice, sound off!

TBC