Old vs. New Locks - Should I book both? New Lock completion date?

Does anyone know what date the new locks will be operable?

We are looking into tours for December, 2015 and wondering if we should book a tour of both locks or just try to see the new locks if they are working.

Thanks.

The construction of the expansion project is supposed to be completed in December 2015 and operational sometime by January 2016. On the Atlantic side the present Gatun Locks and the expansion locks are near each other and they have a very nice visitor's center at the new locks. So it may be fairly convenient to visit both and I think it would be beneficial to compare the two. Even though the new locks won't actually be operational in terms of transiting vessels through the Canal, it is possible you may be able to see them in operation. The Atlantic side Locks are further ahead in their construction and are scheduled to be completed early enough to allow test lockages before the entire project is completed... so there just might be some ship activity for you to see.

The construction of the expansion project is supposed to be completed in December 2015 and operational sometime by January 2016. On the Atlantic side the present Gatun Locks and the expansion locks are near each other and they have a very nice visitor's center at the new locks. So it may be fairly convenient to visit both and I think it would be beneficial to compare the two. Even though the new locks won't actually be operational in terms of transiting vessels through the Canal, it is possible you may be able to see them in operation. The Atlantic side Locks are further ahead in their construction and are scheduled to be completed early enough to allow test lockages before the entire project is completed... so there just might be some ship activity for you to see.

Thank you BillB48. A couple of questions for you or anyone that may like to answer.

When do you think the project will be fully completed.

Do you think the Cruise Lines will use the newer locks?

And with bigger ships than is used right now?

Thanks

Thank you BillB48. A couple of questions for you or anyone that may like to answer.

When do you think the project will be fully completed.

Do you think the Cruise Lines will use the newer locks?

And with bigger ships than is used right now?

 

Thanks

Even though there still seems like a mountain of work left to be done I have not heard of any significant stumbling blocks looming on the horizon that would cause a change in the present estimated start up of January 2016. However, the original completion was supposed to be in time for the 100th anniversary of the opening which would have been August 2014. They have had their share of sporadic labor problems, the consortium of companies that are behind the bulk of the work have had some financial issues with the Canal Authority that has stopped work for a while. Those issues have been put to bed at least for now, so hopefully they won't cause any further delay.

I feel sure that the cruise lines are just waiting for a firm opening of the expansion project and when that happens I think you will see some of the ships that are presently too large for the current locks make an appearance at the Canal. I think a lot of people are anxiously awaiting the announcement of the first post panamax cruise ship's transit of the Canal.

Thanks so much.:)

A lock is a lock...they operate the same!

A lock is a lock...they operate the same!

Yup, they all have their ups and downs! However, with the two locks almost side by side there will be be some notable differences... Gatun Locks: Using lock "mules" to maneuver ships through... two independent lanes... miter gates... over a 100 years old and busier than the builders ever dreamed. Agua Clara Locks: Using tugboats to maneuver ships through... rolling gates... a single lane... the new lane will handle much larger ships.

I think it would great to see both!

I meant to close the loop on the OP's question about the new locks completion date earlier... Buried in the article linked below is a reference that the expansion should be running by April 2016. That date is of course 3 months what I referenced in this thread. If the original plans hold, the Atlantic Locks are supposed to be operational some time ahead of the rest of the expansion, this will provide the Canal Authority time for testing and refining techniques for handling the larger vessels at the new locks. In a nutshell, the Canal expansion should be open for business April 1, 2016.

(This is the same article I linked to in the other thread.)

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/03/26/us-panama-canal-idUSKBN0MM24I20150326

I should follow this link...

Any thoughts as to whether local (i.e. Colon or Panama City based) tour operators will be able to offer full/partial transit tours using the new lock(s)? I can see the Canal Authority reserving the new locks for only the ships that must use them but I wonder just how busy they will be come 1 April 2016 with Post-Panamax ships? Probably too early to say.

Other than the new Observation Center (http://www.canalmuseum.com/canalphotos/new-visitors-center.htm) at Colon, I am looking into what other options a tourist may have in regard to the new locks.

Any thoughts as to whether local (i.e. Colon or Panama City based) tour operators will be able to offer full/partial transit tours using the new lock(s)? I can see the Canal Authority reserving the new locks for only the ships that must use them but I wonder just how busy they will be come 1 April 2016 with Post-Panamax ships? Probably too early to say.

 

Other than the new Observation Center (http://www.canalmuseum.com/canalphotos/new-visitors-center.htm) at Colon, I am looking into what other options a tourist may have in regard to the new locks.

I suspect that partial transits using the new locks will be slow to come to pass. Then I am just guessing, because the present locks are just more suited to that type of operation. I would think that the Canal authorities would have a handle on what the traffic volume would be, but that too would be just a guesstimate.

Presently the visitor's center on the Atlantic side is the place to go for the new locks, there is much more for the tourist to see... video presentations, food and beverage service as well as a great vantage point to see the lock complex. On the Pacific side presently there is just an observation area which is not that close to the lock.

I suspect that partial transits using the new locks will be slow to come to pass. Then I am just guessing, because the present locks are just more suited to that type of operation. I would think that the Canal authorities would have a handle on what the traffic volume would be, but that too would be just a guesstimate.

 

Presently the visitor's center on the Atlantic side is the place to go for the new locks, there is much more for the tourist to see... video presentations, food and beverage service as well as a great vantage point to see the lock complex. On the Pacific side presently there is just an observation area which is not that close to the lock.

BB - You seem to be quite expert in all things PC, so I have a question for you....

My DH is interested in seeing the "operations" of the locks, and there is a tour offered on our Azamara cruise that seems to be this new Gatun visitors center (it's called "Expansion of PC past and present") It mentions an Expansion Observatory Platform...is this what you are referencing above with your description of a new (and interesting) visitors center? There is also a "Milaflores lock and old Canal Zone" tour- this seems like you get to see ships transiting (but since we will be ON a ship making a full transit - seems redundant to me.

I'm asking for your opinion on which tour might be most interesting, (to DH engineer) and if you've ever visited either of these locations, which would you recommend? Much thanks in advance!

BB - You seem to be quite expert in all things PC, so I have a question for you....

My DH is interested in seeing the "operations" of the locks, and there is a tour offered on our Azamara cruise that seems to be this new Gatun visitors center (it's called "Expansion of PC past and present") It mentions an Expansion Observatory Platform...is this what you are referencing above with your description of a new (and interesting) visitors center? There is also a "Milaflores lock and old Canal Zone" tour- this seems like you get to see ships transiting (but since we will be ON a ship making a full transit - seems redundant to me.

I'm asking for your opinion on which tour might be most interesting, (to DH engineer) and if you've ever visited either of these locations, which would you recommend? Much thanks in advance!

In the past the tour "Expansion of PC past and present" included a visit to both Gatun Locks and the Visitor's Center for the new Atlantic side expansion locks. I preface that with "in the past" because as the expansion gets nearer to completion I don't know how they are going to handle visits to the Gatun Locks. As you would expect there presently is a road that directly connects Gatun with everywhere you would need to go. When they start actual ship tests later this year at the new locks, this road will be eliminated and Gatun Locks will be isolated from the road network. While essential personnel will be able to access Gatun by crossing the new locks, I don't know how or even "if" they will be set up to handle visitors. Just speculation on my part, but Miraflores Locks may become the locks to where visitors are sent.

Getting back to the present locks, the view at the either of the locks you would visit, Gatun or Miraflores would essentially be the same. Gatun is a bit more basic but you actually can get a little closer to the operation. Miraflores has a more modern facility with some audio/visual aids and an attached museum. Both Locks have some equipment displays that would certainly be of interest to the engineering inclined. Of course you will have a great seat to see everything on your transit, so perhaps that can be your ace in the hole. Another plus is Azamara ships are a little smaller and IMO it is easier to see the operation on the smaller vessel. Sometimes the big ships just overwhelm the locks.

The visitor's center at the expansion locks is very nice with some A/V features and a great view of the new locks and surrounding area. While it is certainly well worth seeing, the "problem" to me is if there are no ships at the lock, then what you will see is essentially a static piece of equipment. When I was there last year, the group I was with was ready to leave after seeing the video presentation and a quick look at the construction of the new locks.

Lastly, the old Canal Zone part of the Miraflores tour... Again IMO other than seeing some scenery this part of the tour would primarily be of interest to some one who lived in the area as part of the Canal workforce (me) or possibly stationed there while they were in the Military. I don't where they actually take you on the tour so I can't really comment on what you would see.

Now as to which I would recommend... hard choice and I am always reluctant inflict my tastes on others. But, from what you describe as long as a visit to Gatun Locks is in the mix I would be inclined to take the "Expansion of PC past and present". Now if for some reason Gatun is not in the equation and the Visitor's Center at the new Atlantic Locks and Miraflores Locks, that might not be a bad substitution. That would give a chance to see more of the country side.

Glad to try and answer any other questions.

Bill- thanks this is GREAT advice! I did a search and found other threads where you had "weighed" in and all of it is very helpful! But this post especially addresses some of the newer info, and will help us make up our minds!

I'm concerned about the viewing platform/access to new canal so close to "opening" (we think;))

Given that we do a full transit (and I'm so glad your comments supported our choice of a small ship for this- we had booked a larger mass market ship and cancelled becasue we just worried we would lose something in the expereince!) and we will get to experience both locks the previous day, our inclination is to go for the history and museum experience.

Here's what's happening...being docked in Fuerte Amador- we are closer to the Miraflores locks and visitor center; so the tour will be an hour shorter, ending around 1 Pm. This would allow us enough time to take a cab to Casco Viejo to see the Museo del Canal Interoceanico, which you recommend in one of your other threads. Another reason for the small ship, destination immersive cruise- we are in PC till 7 pm, which will allow us see that scenic area and the museum in the late afternoon, and still be on board for 6 PM (and out of Casco Viejo after dark, which appears to be a recommendation in my guide books!)

If you can stand another semi related question: because our crusie arrives in PC the night before at 6 Pm, we have the option to explore the Calzado Amador (causeway) that evening before our tours. The guide books do not mention this is unsafe, do you think it would be possible to walk or cab to the CA and walk around? It sounds as if the area has lovely views, restaurants, and a chance to interact a bit with the locals! We just returned from Cuba (where safetyis no issue) and enjoyed many evenings on the Malecon - it sounds like a similar expereince, but of course, safety and security has to be our first concern! If you have any experience wth that, I would love to hear about it! (Including how far it is from the port)

Thanks, you've been so helpful, both with these comments and your prior posts! :D

Bill- thanks this is GREAT advice! I did a search and found other threads where you had "weighed" in and all of it is very helpful! But this post especially addresses some of the newer info, and will help us make up our minds!

 

I'm concerned about the viewing platform/access to new canal so close to "opening" (we think;))

 

Given that we do a full transit (and I'm so glad your comments supported our choice of a small ship for this- we had booked a larger mass market ship and cancelled becasue we just worried we would lose something in the expereince!) and we will get to experience both locks the previous day, our inclination is to go for the history and museum experience.

 

Here's what's happening...being docked in Fuerte Amador- we are closer to the Miraflores locks and visitor center; so the tour will be an hour shorter, ending around 1 Pm. This would allow us enough time to take a cab to Casco Viejo to see the Museo del Canal Interoceanico, which you recommend in one of your other threads. Another reason for the small ship, destination immersive cruise- we are in PC till 7 pm, which will allow us see that scenic area and the museum in the late afternoon, and still be on board for 6 PM (and out of Casco Viejo after dark, which appears to be a recommendation in my guide books!)

If you can stand another semi related question: because our crusie arrives in PC the night before at 6 Pm, we have the option to explore the Calzado Amador (causeway) that evening before our tours. The guide books do not mention this is unsafe, do you think it would be possible to walk or cab to the CA and walk around? It sounds as if the area has lovely views, restaurants, and a chance to interact a bit with the locals! We just returned from Cuba (where safetyis no issue) and enjoyed many evenings on the Malecon - it sounds like a similar expereince, but of course, safety and security has to be our first concern! If you have any experience wth that, I would love to hear about it! (Including how far it is from the port)

 

Thanks, you've been so helpful, both with these comments and your prior posts! :D

I have not heard anything negative about the Causeway during the day or at night... just your regular precautions are always a good idea. I ate out on the causeway with friends 2 nights a little over a year ago and did have any problems or concerns. There are a number of eateries and assorted shops. The only thing is the establishments are probably strung out for about a mile or so, but you can walk around. One thing I should point out, Ft. Amador is a tender port, I was not on a cruise, so I don't exactly know where the tender disembarks and the tender terminal's exact location with all the restaurants and shops. It is however, in the general area of where you wish to go.

You'll be treated to a great view of the skyline of Panama City, so just pick a spot with a great view and enjoy.

On your trip to El Casco Viejo, getting there the time of day you are considering won't be a problem,just allow ample time for the return trip. Panama has traffic jams of epic proportions, even though the Casco Viejo is not that far away from the Causeway at Ft. Amador it could take some time on the return.

I have not heard anything negative about the Causeway during the day or at night... just your regular precautions are always a good idea. I ate out on the causeway with friends 2 nights a little over a year ago and did have any problems or concerns. There are a number of eateries and assorted shops. The only thing is the establishments are probably strung out for about a mile or so, but you can walk around. One thing I should point out, Ft. Amador is a tender port, I was not on a cruise, so I don't exactly know where the tender disembarks and the tender terminal's exact location with all the restaurants and shops. It is however, in the general area of where you wish to go.

 

You'll be treated to a great view of the skyline of Panama City, so just pick a spot with a great view and enjoy.

 

On your trip to El Casco Viejo, getting there the time of day you are considering won't be a problem,just allow ample time for the return trip. Panama has traffic jams of epic proportions, even though the Casco Viejo is not that far away from the Causeway at Ft. Amador it could take some time on the return.

True, it is tendered, so I guess we will check in with the cruise manager and see if its walkable from where we land, I've also heard AZ is pretty good with shuttles, and shore side info, maps etc. It's another reason for choosing the smaller ship. Luckily, we walk miles and bike even more, so a long causeway won't present a challenge to us! (Knocking on wood! :eek:)

Thanks for the warning about the traffic, we will want to add time to our return then!

Thanks again for all your advice!

Kathy

If you are into walking then there certainly won't be an issue being walkable. It is just my lack of knowledge as to where the tender lands... there are two marina areas on either side of Perico Island and another over on Culebra/Naos Island. (I really don't think it lands at Culebra... just don't know) There are eateries scattered throughout the area, shouldn't be a challenging walk.

I know there is a bike rental place right where the Causeway joins the mainland which is about 5 miles from the islands mentioned above. They may have an office out at the island end as well.