RMS v MV v MS

We all know the Queen Mary is an RMS, although Cunard apparently see that more as an honorific than anything else.

Equally the Queen Elizabeth 2 was certainly an RMS up to and including May 1st, 2004.

My assumption was that the title did not remain past that date. However there was a notice on board in relation to a communication to Elizabeth Windsor which was signed RMS - and this was as recent as last June. The Chief Officer didn't know the prefix that was correct.

I've seen references to Queen Victoria as MS - but Arcadia as MV.

So, and inviting all the pedants to excell themselves, what is the correct current title of Queen Elizabeth 2 and the future title of Queen Victoria, and (perhaps more interestingly) why?

I've been assuming both are MVs.

Matthew,

If I may interject before the pedants, there does not appear to be a single definitive answer. To the cousins at least, the terms would appear to be interchangeable:

motor ship (MS) or motor vessel (MV): A ship propelled by internal-combustion engines.

From:

http://www.aapa-ports.org/Industry/content.cfm?ItemNumber=1077&navItemNumber=545

Googling the two variants leads to the following counts:

MV Queen Victoria: 166

MS Queen Victoria: 292

MV Queen Elizabeth 2: 185

MS Queen Elizabeth 2: 171

RMS Queen Elizabeth 2: 962

RMS QE2: 1810

MV Queen Mary 2: 19

MS Queen Mary 2: 403

RMS Queen Mary 2: 896

Clearly its very early days yet - and the QE2 seems reluctant to relinquish her former title. On the basis of how Queen Mary is being described, perhaps 'ship' will pull ahead. On the other hand the classification society refers to them as a 'vessel'.

Peter, Guernsey

On the other hand the classification society refers to them as a 'vessel'.

 

Peter, Guernsey

Vessel is definitely the correct word.... in English anyway.

The definition of 'ship' is ... a three-masted sailing vessel with square sails carried on all three masts.

Technically speaking the QM2 should be a MEV... motor-electric vessel because she is indeed propelled by electricity!

A few others...

TSS Turbine Steam Ship

or TSS Twin Screw Steamer

GTV Gas Turbine Vessel

TSMV Twin Screw Motor Vessel

TEV Turbo Electric Vessel

QTEV Quadruple Turbo Electric Vessel

QTEV was used for the old Furness liner QUEEN OF BERMUDA although her captain used to tell passengers that it stood for

Quick Turnaround Every Voyage!

As QM2 has four propellers propelled by electric motors she should probably be called a Q.M.E.V.

I must admit that for a liner the old 'R.M.S.'..... Royal Mail Ship or Royal Mail Steamer sounds great although I wonder if she has ever carried a single sack of sea post!

Stephen

As QM2 has four propellers propelled by electric motors she should probably be called a Q.M.E.V.

Stephen,

As the QM2 also uses Gas Turbines should she not also have GT in there too?

Q.M.GT.E.V? Maybe thats why they went for RMS!

Peter, Guernsey

Stephen,

 

As the QM2 also uses Gas Turbines should she not also have GT in there too?

Q.M.GT.E.V? Maybe thats why they went for RMS!

 

Peter, Guernsey

If Cunard decided to give QM2's gas turbines a bit more "oomph" in a future refit, would she become a GTi ? ;)

If Cunard decided to give QM2's gas turbines a bit more "oomph" in a future refit, would she become a GTi ? ;)

With "go faster" stripes?

With "go faster" stripes?

I seem to remember that it was the QE2 that had red "go faster" stripes in 1994!

I seem to remember that it was the QE2 that had red "go faster" stripes in 1994!

Red, gold and blue.

Regards, Colin.

Attached photo has disappeared!

I am under the impression that QE2 is still an RMS. She certainly was treated as such when I was aboard a year ago, and there are numerous plaques etc. referring to her as RMS even after 2004.

Some have argued that she should really be RMMV as RMS means "Royal Mail Steamer" but I do not think anything has been RMMV for a long time - that seems to have been more popular in the days when motor ships were a novelty.

I am not aware of much of a difference between MS or MV; it is merely what the line prefers. P&O use MV which is why it is MV ARCADIA. I am not sure if Cunard will try for RMS for QV or not - if not, I guess she will either be an MS or an MV depending on what they happen to prefer. I suspect it would be MS but don't know. Anyhow they may ask permission to use RMS since they do maintain that she's a liner...

It is worth pointing out that while lots of ships are MV for motor vessel, I am not aware of anything being called SV for steam vessel! (I have seen SV for sailing vessel though - but never SS for sailing ship.)

A lot of this is really just a matter of tradition. As has been pointed out above, a ship like QM2 should really be MGTEV or MGTES or GTMEV or GTMES (not sure about proper order?) but that is never the case. Similarly, a ship like MILLENNIUM is called GTS for gas turbine ship when in fact she is electrically powered so really it should be GTES. Plus she has a steam turbine making her... Well, I don't know what; GTSES perhaps? And she is about to acquire a diesel generator too which I guess would make her something like GTSMES! But all these things are far too unwieldy.

The only time electricity seems to come into it is in the case of turbo-electric ships which is taken to mean steam turbines are providing the electricity, and then it is usually TES or TEV. Nonetheless, in her later years P&O called CANBERRA an SS even though she was properly TES or TEV CANBERRA. Similarly, I have heard "SS NORMANDIE" when in fact she too was turbo-electric.

On the occasions when QE2 has not been called an RMS, I have always seen her down as TSMV QUEEN ELIZABETH 2, a rather unique appellation referring to her being a twin-screw motor vessel. I'm not sure why they throw in the twin-screw bit but they seem to have. Nonetheless, it is usually RMS and as far as I am aware, she remains legally eligible for such a designation.

There have also been lots of ships called TS and TSS and as Stephen points out, Furness Bermuda liked QTEV for quadruple turbo-electric vessel. (Now that's a mouthful!) The Greeks have always been fond of MTS which I've been told means "motorship twin screw". Italian ships are usually TN (turbonave) or MN (motonave). Other nationalities usually seem to use the English designations e.g. SS FRANCE or TS MAXIM GORKIY.

As for stripes, QE2's red, gold and blue "go faster" stripes were part of the Cunard logo designed at that time (1994). She also had a that logo's big golden Cunard lion above "CUNARD" on her superstructure. When you are on board, you can still see the same style lion in the signage for the Golden Lion Pub, and also up above the Funnel Bar where it says "QUEEN ELIZABETH 2" is a lion of that style that nobody ever bothered to paint over. (It is technically "incorrect" in accordance with the current Cunard corporate identity guidelines.) Finally, in the stairwells all the clocks date to the 1994 refit and as I recall they still have the official Cunard logo of the day, including that particular iteration of the lion.

SAGAFJORD, VISTAFJORD and ROYAL VIKING SUN also got the "go faster" stripes too. I'm not sure about the SEA GODDESS twins - I've seen brochure photos of them with the stripes but I'm pretty sure they were doctored as when I saw them in the '90s they were always sans stripes. I don't think they were ever applied to any of the Cunard Crown ships (including COUNTESS/PRINCESS) even though those ships were members of the fleet in 1994 as well.

Around 1996 or 1997, the Cunard logo was changed again - the stripes and lions went, in favor of a simple white "CUNARD" on red background - and the lions were painted over, but the "go faster" stripes remained until the ships either left the fleet or, in the case of QE2 and VISTAFJORD, until 1999 when Cunard resurrected the traditional livery (in VISTAFJORD's case this was of course accompanied by the new name CARONIA).

1994-1999 was also the period during which QE2 had that unfortunate blue hull. It was supposed to make her look more "modern", of course. I thank Carnival for bringing back the proper grey (yes it is grey, not black - the color is Federal Grey) hull.

RMS it is then. Until Doug is proved wrong, which would be a real pity....

Matthew

as RMS means "Royal Mail Steamer" but I do not think anything has been RMMV for a long time - that seems to have been more popular in the days when motor ships were a novelty.

 

.

Doug,

HAPPY NEW YEAR!

RMS means Royal Mail SHIP not Royal Mail STEAMER. Steamers were not the only ships to carry the mails... sailing ships could be RMS as well as motor liners.

Stephen

RMS means Royal Mail SHIP not Royal Mail STEAMER.

I know - I said "some have argued". I am not one of those ;) !

A very Happy New Year to you and Ruth as well!

I am not sure if Cunard will try for RMS for QV or not

Cunard PR have said they will not:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:MS_Queen_Victoria

Peter, London

Pedants, pundits...

Queen Mary 2 is begrudginglyRMS.

Queen Victoria is clearly a non-entity in this discussion and category of competition.

As the true blue blood, QE2 is and always should be RMS... at least while I am on the world cruise!

Doug,

You're having way too much fun with this,

Stephen,

You too!

Bobby, II thought of you today- apologetically. as I stand corrected. I stated earlier that I did not think there would be any violence associated (especially in the tourist areas) with the Bangkok situation (and the coup) Of course, we had the New Years Bombing. It remains to be seen what Cunard will do. I am sure they will closely watch the situation, and decide as the time comes closer whether to substitute or skip the port.

At any rate, from my experience, Cunard will not risk harm to their passengers- Witness the several cancelled ports when, in the judgement of the Captain, tendering was not considered safe. I am sure it costs them plenty (actual costs, and lost profitable shore excursions and such) when they have to cancel or alter a port. I am sure all will be fine!

Enjoy your trip. You must be overcome with excitment! like you've died and gone to heaven (At least until the bill comes! <LOL>

Karie,

who wishes you could smuggle her abord. I'd better not offer though. The last time I did that (Gina) seemed to bring someone bad luck!