grandgeezer

We never get the drink package. We are Diamond on RCL and Elite+ on Celebrity so we get more drinks, for free, than we normally drink. It’ll be a cold day in h - ll before we change our habits just to get “our moneys worth”.

2 hours ago, CHEZMARYLOU said:

With the current price of potato chips, on the high side of $6 a bag here, it could now be classified as fine dining.

Potato chips just went up to $2.99 recently, it had been $1.99 for years. The weight is down to 8.5 ounces. Still not fine dining in my book.

This is in Phoenix.

4 hours ago, sheezsmith said:

So all the crew that clean up after you, hallways, stairways, restrooms etc get nothing, if you can afford a cruise, you can afford to pay all of the crew a small gratuity!! 

Where does it say they couldn’t afford it?

43 minutes ago, Seville2Cabo said:

My numbers are based on when I bought the Royal stock I currently have and the difference if I would have bought a S&P fund.  

 

 

Since the IPO, Royal is up 1,395% versus the S&P at 1.061%.  

 

Not sure I understand your point about having to spend money.  I was / am going to spend it anyway, so it is just a bonus.  I never book a cruise for the OBC or points - we book what we want.  The OBC is just a bonus.

 

 

 

Royal Caribbean Cruises Return vs. S&P

	1 YEAR	5 YEAR	5 YEAR ANNUALIZED	SINCE IPO
RCL	+71.39%	+1.35%	+0.27%	+1,395%
S&P	+27.46%	+82.16%	+12.74%	+1,061%

This is not comparing apples with apples. You are comparing it to the S&P 500. I’m comparing it to my S&P 500 Index Fund. There is a huge difference, the S&P 500 is based the cost of one share of each. The S&P 500 Index Fund has to own at least one share of each stock but they can load up on the ones they think will make them money. some of their biggest holdings are well into 

2 hours ago, Seville2Cabo said:

I've had RC stock for about 20 years.  Average return - 15% - S&P over the same period - under 7%, and that does not include the OBC.

 

Picking the right date can make the number come out any way you want.  

Here’s some new data for you. RCL stock since IPO in 1993. Up 1,235.27 %.  S&P 500 Index fund since first offered in 1984. Up 3,141.97%. These numbers are updated as the price changes. This is on msn.com. Where do your numbers come from or are they skewed in your favor?

I don’t how you can count shareholder obc as you have to pay a ton of money to get it. 

20 minutes ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

But look at the big picture for many loyal cruisers. You get a $200 credit for each cruise plus dividends and 6.5% increases. This could appear to be quite nice. Three cruises a year and dividends on the minimum stock shares to qualify for a discount gets you about $1000.

 

Invest the same money in other stocks, like the chip and AI stocks, get more than 20% increases (100% in some cases), higher dividends and have $1000+ towards each cruise.

 

It all depends upon your goals and appetite for risk.

 

If anyone bought the stocks at their lows, bravo, you have done well. Purchasing it now is only going to give you incremental gains since the lions share of growth after the pandemic is done.

Where is the dividend coming from? RCL hasn’t paid one in several years.

I’ve been in the stock market for over 35 years and reached financial gain way beyond my wildest dreams. I have a 401k, and by law, I have to take a minimal withdrawal every year, for 2024 it’s $58,000+ and that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

For those that bought the stock below $20 and held on to it, good for you. But like an economic professor said after someone brought up a similar situation many many years ago “Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in awhile”. 
Long term, cruise line stocks have not been a good investment. Five years ago, if you stuck equal amounts in RCL stock and a S&P 500 mutual fund, as of close of business today, the RCL stock would be up a total of 1.35%. The mutual fund would be up 82.16%.

Finally, to get the shareholder obc you have to book a cruise each time to get it. The mutual fund pays capital gains and dividends without another penny out your pocket.

You can take it in cash, or reinvest it.

1 hour ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

"What a tangled web we weave."  (Marmion, Sir Walter Scott, circa 1811). There are so many moving parts to such a decision that the bean counters do not take into consideration.

 

Something as simple as a "baggage fee" can come with a lot of baggage in the process (pun intended).

 

😉

You think the couldn’t learn from the airlines and any other business that do this? The tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, available for all the cruise lines, would be worth the temporary headaches that might occur. What other options are available besides the usual raise costs and cutback on all the other pieces of the product being offered?😂

1 hour ago, Engineroom Snipe said:

After reading the information, be ready for a huge expansion of "pay onboard opportunities and shore experiences".

 

While Royal has been increasing passenger capacity fleetwide, the Onboard and Other Revenue percentage went down from 34.5% to 32.2% (2022 and 2023 numbers).

 

The CEO has mentioned in Quarterly discussions late last year about how the onboard and other revenue "was not meeting expectations."

 

This explains the bombardment of emails describing Royal's latest "discounts" to be purchased through my app.

 

Just an opinion that "pay-to-play" is going to be an ongoing trend trying to get these percentage up.

 

Also, the new Royal shore resort area being developed at Nassau.

 

One possible scheme which they are employing now, more port days and less sail distance per cruise.

 

Benefits:

 

1. No additional cost to Royal as all new port charges (taxes) are automatically added to the passenger cost and not reflected in the advertised cabin rate.

2. Slower cruising and less fuel, less wear and tear on mechanical systems.

3. Make additional money from shore excursions.

4. Serve less food and reduce unlimited drink consumption when passengers are off ship.

 

How about charging luggage handling fees, like the airlines? According to Forbes magazine, they made $32,000,000,000, yes billion, last year. Only allow carryons, the same size restraints as airlines, to be brought on the ship. Start at $25 for the first bag and $30 for each additional bags, which is less than the airlines do. $$$$$.

24 minutes ago, Coralc said:

We were on Serenade for 2 weeks in March. It wasn't bad, just kind of mediocre. Room Steward was great and fun. Long time employee. Pool deck bar service was bad the first day but improved over time. As always, had fun and met nice people. 

It was by no means a bad cruise, but I'm just not sure we are willing to pay high prices for a so-so experience. 

 

We came to that conclusion even before the shutdown, and no regrets.

2 hours ago, taglovestocruise said:

It was not the tip as much as them adding a mandatory additional 5% service charge.  Sign of the times I guess as several other restaurants in the area have now added a mandatory 4% service fee. Thank God my wife loves it when I BBQ, but even that is becoming expensive. Last week it was $58 for two Prime NY steaks from Costco.  

We get two prime Rib Eyes at Sam’s Club for about $34, they are about one pound each. Put them on the barbie, doesn’t get any better than that.

4 hours ago, PhillyFan33579 said:

This has nothing to do with price gouging and everything to do with a sharp increase in demand for cruises, which has lead to an increase in cruise fares. I still think cruises are very affordable, but unfortunately the rise in cruise prices will likely lead to some people no longer being able to afford to go on a cruise. 

“Affordable” is in the eyes of buyer, just because that’s your opinion, believe it or not, not everybody agrees with you. We buy based on “value” for the price asked, and for the last several years, none have.

9 minutes ago, nelblu said:

Could be simply profit taking.

Why today, on the day they revealed their earnings report, just a coincidence? I think not, 81% of the stock is held by institutional investors and they do it to make money. If they were so enamored with the report they would have did nothing or increased their holdings. 

On 1/26/2024 at 8:42 AM, Itchy&Scratchy said:

yes, my hubs drinks Heineken as well and we are booked in an inside cabin, but we are not paying $9+grats for it. Forget it. I thought even $7+grats was a lot for a bottle of Heineken....

We can wait till we get home to pay $14-18 for 6 bottles, with only 7% tax added to it.

We had friends over for New Years Eve and splurged for Heineken, we got a 12 pack of bottles for $17 plus 8.5% tax. We refuse to the price the lines charge for alcohol so we get by on the free drinks we get from being Elite +. At home we drink domestic beer when we can buy it, around the holidays for $.61, a beer, tax included.

I’ve been a beer drinker for over fifty years and have tried them all, domestic, imported, craft, and even pale ales but always end of back to the domestic. Paying more doesn’t necessarily mean it’s better in my opinion.

3 hours ago, hcat said:

 

"American singer Usher has a net worth of $250 million. Usher earns a whopping $10 million salary for his NFL Superbowl halftime performance. As per Forbes, Usher is one of the richest music artists in the world in 2023"   not too shabby for one show!

I find it hard to believe that the Super Bowl would pay someone $10,000,000 for a 10-15 minute performance. I did some checking and I found two instances where it was reported that the headliners were only paid for expenses and production costs, nothing else. The do it for the worldwide publicity. If you are impressed with Usher’s net worth, it’s chump change compared to Taylor Swift’s net worth oh $1,000,000,000 (billion). When she finishes up her second part of her world tour, this year, that’s supposed to put another $500,000,000 in her pocket. Not bad for a 34 year old.

37 minutes ago, serene56 said:

are you using luggage valet?   

Unless it was changed after the start up, I think the earliest flight to use Luggage Valet is 11:30am. I believe there was no leeway on that time.

16 hours ago, billc23 said:

401k distributions are taxed as ordinary income, no preferential "Qualified Dividend" tax treatment,  and that is $40.80 of federal tax per $100 for me. But that is not the point. I purchased Royal stock for cruising coming out of Covid at $38 per share and have sailed enough to basically cover the cost of 100 shares. If you don't cruise there is no benefit, except the current unrealized capital gain, but those who own the stock have been very pleased with the extra OBC. The other feature I use as a shareholder is to apply for my OBC at a time when I want an updated official booking conformation without having to contact anyone. 

I don’t need an explanation on how 401k distributions are made. Maybe you need help from a tax attorney. The tax is based on net income not just the 401k.  I have to take a distribution every year because of my age. In 2022 my distribution was $47,000 and my total tax was in the 18% range. That’s taking standard deductions with no debt.

That puts $37,213 in my pocket after state taxes.

2 hours ago, goofysmom99 said:

I look at the shareholder benefit as a nontaxable dividend and lately, have been applying it to gratuities.  

How much taxes do you pay on a $100 or even a $250 dividend? A couple of bucks or so? Hardly a reason to get excited about or to base a financial decision on it.

I wish I had to pay $1,000,000 in taxes, imagine how much money I would have to make to do that, not as much as you think if you have a good financial planner to work with.

You failed to bring up the other half of the equation, how much obc if you don’t cruise in a particular year?  I haven’t stuck a penny out of my pocket since September 2001 and the money keeps rolling in.

5 hours ago, BP99 said:

Hi,

Love your comment but I'm AMAZED about how many loyal Elite (and above) and Diamond and above

(RCL) cruisers don't have RCL shares. When I meet them (Happy hour) I often ask whether they get 

shareholder benefits. MOST say No! I LOVE getting FREE $250 or $100 OBC on EACH cruise I take!  Some they tell me they are worried about buying RCL shares and if they stop cruising. HUH?? Also, some think they have to buy RCL stock for each cruise they take. HUH? Since we bought RCL several decades ago it has tripled! Also during COVID, RCL stock was down and a great time to get in for newbies. It went back up quickly! The ONLY thing I miss is the dividends that they had. That was like a TRIPLE bonus for

a shareholders!!

Bill

Since you mentioned the rise in price over several decades I’ll mention my biggest and best performing asset. My 401k is made up of mutual funds with the S&P 500 Index being one. In the last four decades it’s up almost 2,800% (that is not a typo). The whole 401k has performed better than my wildest dreams. The dividends are paid in cash, that can be spent anywhere rather than obc that have to be spent on items that are grossly overpriced on a ship. Also it’s paid every year without any financial commitment from me.

5 hours ago, dleahy4444 said:

I really don’t see the point of your post other than to wonder why people might go to extremes to not have to get the drink package. As another poster pointed out, many people do scrimp and save in order to afford a Celebrity cruise vacation. Since the prices are so high now, the cruise fare alone may be at the top of their budget. A drink package, especially if they don’t drink much, might be an unjustified additional expense. If the cruiser is Elite or above, the perks like the HH drinks are not “free”. They are well deserved perks earned by the money they have spent over the years as loyal customers, which they should take full advantage of, within the rules. 

I beg to differ with the statement about HH drinks aren’t free. In the past we had friends cruise with us on Celebrity, we are Elite +. We booked at the same time, same category. We paid exactly the same price. We got the HH drinks, two bags of laundry each, 240 minutes of internet, and a few other freebies, they got nothing. Sounds an awful lot like “for free” to me.

We’ve the drink package a couple of times and found it was a waste of money. I can’t remember more than once, or twice that we got our “monies worth”. We didn’t drink much more than we did with just the HH drinks. We don’t bring any wine or soda aboard. If you are someone who normally drinks enough maybe it’s worth it to you. If not, what have you gained or saved? It’s your money to spend as you please.

26 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

Why an oxymoron?  I take it by critic you agree it means to judge the positives and/or negatives of something.    

I think the oxymoron is brought into play, because anybody who makes a comment that is any bit negative about the cruising experience is ostracized for doing such.

It’s pretty sad when some people can’t accept the fact that somebody might fell different and have the nerve to make their opinion public.

On 1/13/2024 at 6:19 AM, Moltar said:

I wish people would look at statistics customer return all those business things because if you did a lot of you who are saying that Roy doesn’t care about the repeat customers you would find how off-base you are with that opinion. And frankly, it’s not that hard to have great meals on 23 cruises over a 30 year timeframe. my apologies for not having any negative opinions on the meals. I’ll be sure to look at the glass half empty next time.

 

Cheers! I’ll be sure to post about all the food on icon and just over three weeks

 

PS I’m sure Royal is going to take the millions upon millions of surveys they get at the end of each cruise as their feedback as opposed to a few hundred possibly a few thousand critics on a cruise forum… the majority far far far  outweigh the minority.

 

if Royal made a decision based on a few people who post in a cruise forum… cmon….

 

I started in this forumin the early 2000s, lost the account…. this place hasn’t changed since which is a very very very very very very, very, very, very bad thing.  
 

It’s just a place that everyone likes to throw darts at each other

 

sources do matter that’s why it’s very very hard for me to take anybody on this forum seriously when all they do is nag and complain, and I constantly ask myself why the hell are they still cruising on the cruise line if they hate it so much?

 

something doesn’t make sense. When I go to a hotel and I had a bad experience, I won’t be back when I buy a product that failed me miserably. I won’t be back when I buy something or go anywhere where I felt the product wasn’t right for the price paid I wouldn’t be back, but yet they keep coming back 

 

and finally Frankly I find it immature to passively aggressive talk about me without speaking to me directly. 

 

 

 

Don’t lump everybody that has made negative comments still cruises. I know a lot of people who bailed even before the shutdown, us included. We went from averaging 40+ days a year to 42 days total between 2016 and the shutdown. Shutdown through today 0. Nothing planned, nothing even considered. Living life to the max without cruising, retired and more money than we’ll ever spend. 

1 hour ago, SUgwoz said:

Then its a priority to relay that to others and/or convince them they should do the same? 

It’s not a priority, I don’t give a rat’s a- - what other people do with their money. I voice my opinion because I have a lot of experience, though all pre-shutdown, and will continue to do so.

You may not feel you aren’t paying dramatically more but you aren’t getting the same quality product you did before. If that’s alright for you, be my guest to continue. For some of us it’s not.

On 1/2/2024 at 5:15 PM, LobsterStalker said:

That was my thought exactly when reading this . 

Sad actually , when someone decides to make a change and then suddenly wants to make others feel " less than ". Especially when they spent a good portion of life doing the same thing they are now disparaging .

JMHO

Do you think it could be that the current product offered is not nearly the same product that it was when they were doing all the cruising? Some of us aren’t willing to lower are standards and pay dramatically more $$$.

2 hours ago, firefly333 said:

While it might not be specific to rcl, rcl is getting hit so hard its among the top 5 being mentioned as being down. Ccl too. Yes they say rise in interest rates triggering rate sensitive stocks sell off. 

 

Those touting and wishing and hoping the fed cuts by march are quiet today and those saying no rate cuts before next june today.  The optimism of last week is reigned in. 

 

As a trader, looking for a new entry, I'm looking to see if rcl can hold 120 or goes lower. I think earnings feb 5 so it will find support, a bottom, support before next earnings. Buyers arent stepping up, just nervous sellers. Tomorrow will be important chart wise. Today it's just a falling knife. 

Today’s volume is up over 50% over the daily average. If there aren’t many buyers stepping up, 

that’s shows how confident they are in the current price going up anything significant.

2 hours ago, Tenderpaw said:

Cruises aren't good for "in depth" at any port.  BUT they are good to get a taste of a lot of things quickly, only unpack once, and have accommodations that are of a known quality level.  

 

I'm kind of picky about accommodations and thus tend to stay at chain hotels after some thread bear/dusty experiences in Europe, so knowing that the cruise ship cabin will be at a certain level is a plus for me.  

 

Regarding "why would you settle", life is full of choices and there is only so much money in my case so sometimes second or third choice is better than sitting at home.  

Everybody has the right to their opinion. For us money is no problem so we have the choice of paying or staying home. Since we don’t see the value in the product, we choose the later.