grandgeezer

Only you can determine if it’s a good price or not. If It was my money I wouldn’t be soliciting advice from perfect strangers who’s financial situation might be drastically different than yours, and have nothing at risk with their opinion.

40 minutes ago, Anotherpyr said:

I figure they started at ridiculous since they knew they’d never get what they wanted without starting there.

 

I agree CEO salaries are out of control.  But what people often forget is what they cost per employee.  Ford’s CEO compensation was $23 million last year.  With 174,000 employees that’s $132.18 per employee.  So they’re asking for more than the CEO’s share.  

Number of employees have very little to do with CEO’s compensation. Here’s something to think about, This CEO’s compensation is 365 times the average worker so he makes more in one day than the average worker makes in a year. Google it if you don ‘t believe it.

1 hour ago, fredmdcruisers said:

I had no idea that people still want to go to Disney. I can take a cruise for 2 with that $1,000. Sometimes that's enough for 14 nights! 

Would like more details on the 14 days cruises you took for $1,000 for two. That’s less than $37 per day per person. Tax, fees, and tips would probably suck up most or all of it. 

19 hours ago, Whinenowine said:

Agreed.  X may notice if many higher level Captains Club cruisers are no longer causing...but that will take a couple of years to discern.  And it's doubtful that they're monitoring these boards closely enough to make a difference.  

 

I think if people are really upset, write to the Exec Offices and constructively express your opinion.  That direct and proactive feedback is the only real-time way for X to understand what customers are thinking.  And they'll do with that what they will (including doing nothing at all).

 

As long as bookings are up and pricing is high, you’re wasting your time complaining to anybody. When’s the last time they did anything significant based on just complaining?

The only thing that gets their attention is $$$$$. If you continue to throw your money ar them, you’re invisible to them.

7 hours ago, firefly333 said:

While I get what YOU want, that's not what the uaw is saying. Google it yourself, I'm leaving on a cruise.

 

Here is one among many I found to try and find what is being said. They want to save their union funds for a protracted strike.

 

"Industry observers say striking selected plants, rather than all of them at once, also helps the UAW preserve its $825 million strike fund. The UAW will pay striking workers $500 a week, with those payments becoming available on the eighth day of a walkout."

 

another 

 

"Meanwhile, other chapters that have not been called for strike will continue to work. This allows the UAW to keep its $825 million “strike fund” running for as long as possible while the union pursues its strategy of selectively striking all three automakers. “We will hit where we need to hit,” said UAW President Shawn Fenn."

 

https://biz.crast.net/uaw-attacks-3-major-automakers-targets-select-factories/

 

 

 

If you read it closely, the UAW President did say it would consider a total shutdown.

I just stated what I think they should do bring this to a head sooner. If they want to pussyfoot around and drag it out for possibly several months, be my guest. I don’t use the three auto makers product, so theirs no skin off my nose either way.

4 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I get a lot of financial news and not sure which one said they are selectively picketing to stretch the unions money so it lasts longer to pay those picketing. They were quoting the uaw. They dont want to run out of union money saved up. 

 

Union members were dying to picket here. A reporter here was in Arlington and they asked him last night to stand outside because feeling were going to run high when the announcement came who would picket. The workers were wanting to picket here near dallas but didn't get picked. 

 

I'm still hearing they are very far apart. Biden is sending in some negotiator and the uaw guy said he might decide to not meet with him tomorrow. I got a fairly new car so just watching. I watch financial stuff though boarding allure .. I miss stock market news. CNBC used to be on royal tv. I like to know what's being said. 

The longer this is drawn out, the more money the union will payout. It also allows the car companies to bring money to exist longer. Go Big Or Go Home, Shut the whole operation down, you’ll get their attention a lot quicker and it’ll show you mean business. Even if the event the whole industry shuts down they’ll be layoffs. With nothing running, how many from the executive branch will be out of work? FYI, in 2022 the executives were paid $71,000,000 in salary, stock options, etc.

When I was working I was a salaried employee with no union ties. I just think the UAW has been jerked around long enough.

3 hours ago, firefly333 said:

Ford just said they will lay off 2k in a stamping plant next week. No need to stamp. GM also saying there will be ripple effects. While I'm good with asking for a raise, I dont like how unions are going about it. I do see a poll 75% of Americans support the uaw. I believe if they gave them what they asked for, as they are saying these demands would bankrupt them.

 

The problem is yes during covid cars went over sticker price. Lots of profit but that profit has shrunk now. Let's hope they find a way soon to meet in the middle without bankrupting the big 3. And yes I remember the bail outs and wasnt for that either. Lots will lose their jobs. Not that the union cares, the public right now is leaning too much into all in for workers. I do see their point as ups and pilots got 40% so they want 40% too for 32 hours work. Going to help Tesla and Nissan and foreign car makers. Jobs will start moving again to other countries. Cars unlike delivery men at ups can be made elsewhere. 

I think the union is more than willing to keep negotiate with them. It shows because they are only striking at three plants. If it doesn’t show any progress a few more plants will have pickets.

If it was me, it would be a complete shutdown, they’ve been dragging their feet long enough. 

I agree they are asking too much, all they are doing is asking to share in the profits when there is some.

Cars can be made anywhere IF they have the facilities, trained workforce, and established supply chain available. Where exactly would this be?

As far as the union caring, it is and has always been take care of yourself first.

7 hours ago, firefly333 said:

All gasoline not just diesel will be climbing. Oil touched over $91 a barrel during the night, but backed off this morning to $89. 

 

I went to the store and spent $60 for a few bags I could easily carry in one hand. 

 

I see folks over on carnival boards sounding the same as here. Folks doing rcl for the first time who were loyal to carnival, coming over here. Trying ncl and msc for the first time. The prices got everyone looking for cheaper deals.

 

Uaw strike for the impossible. If they give them what they want the big 3 go bankrupt. They want profit sharing and free or discounted stock is a big sticking pt. Paid the same for 32 hours of work, not 40. Even wages mid 30% up on a 4 day workweek cant be done. Ford is losing 60k per ev car they sell right now.  UAW says ceo has to take a pay cut and pretends that's going to pay for their demands. Wait until you want to buy a new car. 

 

Imo complaining is fun here and we all feel the bite, but unless demand drops prices are here to stay. Better still if someone sees a good deal post it. 

They can’t give them everything but if they continue to play hardball, they might end up in bankruptcy anyway. This has been brewing for a long time and I’m sure a majority of the union membership has been salting money away, for a long time, just for this. I don’t know what these isolated strikes will cost the automakers, but an article I read said that if the entire 143,000 union membership struck for ten days, it would take a $5.6 billion bite out of the industry.

I give the UAW workers all the credit in the world, they found that just complaining didn’t work, so they’re hitting them where it hurts the worst, the wallet. Don’t worry, the government will bail them out again like they did in the past. That’s what they do for big companies based in the U.S. who pay taxes and abide by all regulations.

Just a guess, all bookings made before October 4 will include the tips if booking AI. That is grandfathered in unless you change you reservation in anyway. Starting October 5, the tips should be gone. The question is will the cost go down also or will it stay the same and just say it’s a price increase because of their cost going up or my favorite, supply and demand

3 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

Don't forget that even if one is at the entire show, some are playing on their phones almost the entire time

You think there be a reason for that? We just get up and leave.

Just on tv, the city of Flagstaff Arizona released that their minimum wages would increase the first of the year. It will be $17.40 per hour. The new rate for tipped employees will be $15.90. This is based on tips and an hourly adjustment to get them up to the $15.90. They do this adjustment every year to somewhat cover at least part of inflation.

Why couldn’t the cruise lines do something similar? Answers obvious, just had to ask.

2 hours ago, jbcallender said:

For our trip on Millie in August, entertainment was just OK.  Other than the two aerialists who were spectacular, the performing artists and the shows were unremarkable.  We were on NCL Spirit last November and their shows and performers were one of the highlights of the cruise (other than Tahiti and Hawaii!)  Very well choreographed shows and very talented musicians and performers.  Perhaps X should use the same contract company.

Years ago Celebrity used to contract their production shows out and they were top notch. Somewhere  along the line they thought they could do it better and of course cheaper. Wrong!

We haven’t cruised since before the shutdown, but what we saw then was mediocre, at best. We usually to B2Bs to bring the daily cost average down since we consider all cost, including airline, hotel, etc. to come up with the actual cost of the trip.

In the last several cruises, we only sat the the entire show a couple times. I don’t recall going back the second week to see any of them.

At the end we did B2Bs on the Allure of the Seas and MSCs Seaside and never left early and didn’t miss a show the second week.

2 hours ago, Airbear232 said:

On cruises, my DW and I pay our standard gratuities and then give those who have made our experience memorable extra in envelops.  That’s been our choice.

 

On reflection, however, I believe the whole tipping culture in N.A. has gotten to the point of being ludicrous.

 

We’re in Toronto and now most take-out restaurants and coffee shops have the option for a tip presented when you pay electronically.  You have to decline it, if you choose, prior to paying.

 

For me, tipping used to mean the reward given for superior service.  This is a personal definition for me.  Over the years, this definition has broadened to include regular service in the recognition that most N.A. restaurants underpay their staff with the thought the staff will work harder to get good tips. 
 

I’d really like to see tipping going back to being for superior service.  
 

An interesting thought, what if CEOs such as Jason Liberty for Royal were given a nominal salary with the rest of their compensation made up of tips.  I bet the quality of the food in the MDR would go up markedly!  
 

 

Not going to happen. To do just about anything cost money. The upper management team get bonuses based on profitability of the company. Currently some cruise lines are finally making a profit after a couple of years amassing a huge debt. They are currently sailing at over100%, or so they say, and pricing is through the roof. 

It’s only going to get worse, if after they get their debt down to a manageable level, if you think the quality is going to improve and pricing is going to stabilize, or drop, dream on.

Once they get their hands deep into your pocket it’s there forever. If enough people say enough is enough and quit sailing, to force their hand, this is the new normal

1 hour ago, Vibe said:

For those who remove their tips and say they are going to tip and cash and really have no intention to tip at all:

DoorDash delivery driver appears to spit on delivery after being upset with tip (nbcnews.com)

This is beyond disgusting. First of all tips aren’t guaranteed, they should be earned. And anybody who thinks this is cute or justified falls in the same category as the delivery person.

If that happened to me, the video would go to DoorDash, the restaurant, and the local tv stations so the whole area will see what could be happening to them if they ordered food delivered. I’ve seen videos similar to this on a regular basis.

Elite + about 1200 points.

Probably done cruising. The only real positive, as we see it, is only having to unpack and pack once, although we visited several different ports. About 12-15 years ago we new at least a dozen, or so couples that cruised several times a year. We know no one who has cruised, even before the shutdown. Everyone said the exact same thing, “we don’t think the product currently offered is worth the price being asked”. 

Us, at one time we were die hard Celebrity/RCL cheerleaders. Between the start of 2022 through 2016 , we five cruises on RCL and thirteen on Celebrity, and one on HAL. The one on HAL was a fourteen day cruise to Alaska, the middle of August. It went to places like Anchorage, Homer, and others. There was no ports that were repeated. To be quite honest, except for the weather. it was quite nice.

Like everybody, we had choices, either lower our expectations and cruise or move on. Took all of two seconds.

4 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

 

You asked a question (highlighted in yellow) I gave my answer

That sounds like a personal choice, not a business decision. If it was such a good itinerary, there would be lines doing it regularly already. 

3 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

I said earlier to start and finish in Oahu Hawaii and go to the French Polynesian (Tahiti, Moorea, Bora Bora, etc).  However, could start in Hawaii and end in Tahiti for the southbound route and vice versa for the northbound.  NCL has something like this one way and stops at other Hawaiian islands for a 12-nighter however you could do a one way with ample port time in 8 nights

What has this got to do with the cruises leaving from L.A.? It was a reply to your comment, nothing was mentioned that would remotely be relevant to your comment.

2 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

 

Just sharing some datapoints...So they dangled these Mex-Riv free cruise offers to casino players, myself included, multiple times and often these were the only sailings players could get fully comped.  Currently, pricing is a mix of cheap and expensive.  There are only two 8-nighters, the Nov 17th one is over Thanksgiving which is far cheaper than the earlier 8-nighter.  Current prices for insides:

 

 

Comped offer:

Couple of pricing, hot off the press, non comped, for November.

11/11. Ocean view $329.  Balcony. $429.  Concierge $499

11/25. Ocean view.$329.  Balcony. $429.  Concierge $479

These are both six nighters cruise only. Taxes and tips still be need to be added. I think if you check comparable Caribbean cruises, for the same timeframe, they would probably be double this. Where would you position the ships if they were yours?

Anybody else notice that this goes into affect days after the end of the third quarter? They probably didn’t want the stock to drop based on the earnings reported for that quarter. This will give them time to rethink their position and adjust in time for year end.

16 hours ago, kruzerci said:

Unfortunately. The Mexico and Pacifical Coastal seasonal cruises on Solstice and Eclipse have sold very poorly and sailed for less than price of the comparable Caribbean sailings this and last year. 
 

 

Many years ago Celebrity had a presence on the west coast but left for exactly the same reason. What would make them think any different?

3 hours ago, Mum2Mercury said:

I'm retired, but I'm still mid-50s -- so not quite old enough for most of these senior citizen discounts; once I'm old enough, though, I'll take advantage!  When I hit 60 and can really find some discounts, I intend to print myself a calendar:  5% Publix, whatever else.  My grandmother used to say I "spend every dollar twice".  She wasn't wrong.  

By the number of homeless people, too many followed the idea of spending every dollar twice. Granted, there are many reasons for that, immigrant being one of them I would guess a vast majority of them is $$$ related, they must have had the “spend two dollars for ever one dollar  philosophy.
For example, there is an area called The Zone, where a good share of them camp out in boxes, tents, and other things. If you’re ever in Phoenix, it’s located on Jefferson St., between 7th and 16th Ave. There are only a few businesses there but it’s only a few blocks from the state capital building and a lot of other government ones too. Several months ago the businesses sued the city and the judge gave the city a deadline to clean it up, and extended the time several times. Bottom line, last I heard there are more people living there than when they started.

One last point to help explain my logic.        My sister, and her husband both had full time jobs but they too went with the spending two for one idea, so they had very little savings. Then the bomb dropped, all the kids were gone and her husband got a big promotion and a 20% raise. Big new house, new cars, travel, etc. Like my dad used to say “Spending money like a drunken sailor on shore leave”.  Her company downsized and she lost her job. Because of the debt she had to find a different job and the best thing she could find was as a waitress. They were hanging on by the skin of their teeth then Covid hit, and she lost her job.

Today: They lost the house and due to their  financial situation, they had to get an apartment as they couldn’t afford a house. They are divorced, in their mid 60s and no retirement in the near future. I have a brother, like me not a financial worry in the world, but we had been warning them for years, the rabbit hole they were digging, but they just ignored us.

They didn’t care about their future so why should we bail them out? Maybe the kids are doing something.

23 hours ago, sheeng said:

Exactly my question! I have an upgrade “Pending”. I can’t amend it but do NOT want it if I now have to pay gratuity on 16 nights in an upper suite!!! We are currently in a SS with premium everything.

According to what I read, just don’t change your reservation for any reason after the cutoff date. Rate adjustments and move ups are two mentioned as no nos.

Our last regular (non suite) cruise was in December 2016, on Celebrity Silhouette, and was supposed to be our last cruise with any line. Sometimes the best is not good enough. In 2018 I started looking at suites to see pricing I could live with. Did the Grand Suite, on the Allure of Seas, for 14 days, and at about $200 p.p. per day all in, we figured we could live with that. We also did 14 days on MSC Seaside, in the Yacht Club, for about the same price and WOW, when had a cruise that we really liked, it’s been a long time since that happened. In 2019 we tried 14 days on the Equinox, against my better judgement, just to find out why it got such high reviews. $300 per person per day.

The experience was nice but not anywhere near justifying the cost. We also did another 14 days on MSC Seaside, WOW WOW we have a winner.

Fast foreword to 2023 and all prices, for any line, any cabin categories, show anything anywhere near any value to us, no we’ll gladly stay home.

Our decisions are based strictly on value, not just the price. The cutbacks, and other changes tell us to save our cash. 
We did our homework and know the differences in the suite pricing.

We have done 84 days in the Oasis class ships, and 230 days on Celebrity so know the ships. What they were earlier and have guessed things haven’t got any better after the Covid shutdown.

This is our feelings, and our money, we do not have to justify it to anybody.

Since some of the responses have strayed from the original post…….

We live in a retirement community near Phoenix. Our garbage is not picked up by the city but by a private company. Because of the occasional coyote, bobcat, and javelinas canvassing the neighborhood for food. Living within ten minutes of two eighteen hole golf courses does’t help as that is home to most of them. Hence, our garbage cans are in ground, in a metal cylinder, with a hinged top. This is up by the garage, next to the driveway.

Garbage is picked up twice a week, even weeks including a holiday. The guys who pick it up have a big barrel, on wheels, and they have to do go up every driveway to pick it up. That’s 52 weeks times twice a week equals 104 times a year. They also pick up recycle twice a month, but that is picked up at the curb which is 24 trips a year. That’s 128 times a year, per home.

Bottom line, they do all this for less than tips, for a seven day cruise in a suite.

Oh, anything that can’t fit in the can, no food items, can be left at the curb.

4 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

If only it were that simple. RCI frequently has kids sail free or reduced 3/4 person rates that make it cheaper for families than Celebrity since they rarely offer a discount targeted at the 3/4 passenger. A lot of people choose RCI because they want the circus at sea. Then they turn around and buy Royal's expensive drink package and spend a fortune on activities and upgrades. A lot of people think Celebrity is too stuffy and boring so it's not even on their radar. There is more to the equation than just the bottom line price. 

It is just that simple. People are willing to pay for the experience that gives them the best bang for their buck, if that means paying more for drink packages and experiences is just part of their evaluation of what led them to go with RCL.