grandgeezer

Elite + about 1200 points.

Probably done cruising. The only real positive, as we see it, is only having to unpack and pack once, although we visited several different ports. About 12-15 years ago we new at least a dozen, or so couples that cruised several times a year. We know no one who has cruised, even before the shutdown. Everyone said the exact same thing, “we don’t think the product currently offered is worth the price being asked”. 

Us, at one time we were die hard Celebrity/RCL cheerleaders. Between the start of 2022 through 2016 , we five cruises on RCL and thirteen on Celebrity, and one on HAL. The one on HAL was a fourteen day cruise to Alaska, the middle of August. It went to places like Anchorage, Homer, and others. There was no ports that were repeated. To be quite honest, except for the weather. it was quite nice.

Like everybody, we had choices, either lower our expectations and cruise or move on. Took all of two seconds.

4 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

 

You asked a question (highlighted in yellow) I gave my answer

That sounds like a personal choice, not a business decision. If it was such a good itinerary, there would be lines doing it regularly already. 

3 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

I said earlier to start and finish in Oahu Hawaii and go to the French Polynesian (Tahiti, Moorea, Bora Bora, etc).  However, could start in Hawaii and end in Tahiti for the southbound route and vice versa for the northbound.  NCL has something like this one way and stops at other Hawaiian islands for a 12-nighter however you could do a one way with ample port time in 8 nights

What has this got to do with the cruises leaving from L.A.? It was a reply to your comment, nothing was mentioned that would remotely be relevant to your comment.

2 hours ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

 

Just sharing some datapoints...So they dangled these Mex-Riv free cruise offers to casino players, myself included, multiple times and often these were the only sailings players could get fully comped.  Currently, pricing is a mix of cheap and expensive.  There are only two 8-nighters, the Nov 17th one is over Thanksgiving which is far cheaper than the earlier 8-nighter.  Current prices for insides:

 

 

Comped offer:

Couple of pricing, hot off the press, non comped, for November.

11/11. Ocean view $329.  Balcony. $429.  Concierge $499

11/25. Ocean view.$329.  Balcony. $429.  Concierge $479

These are both six nighters cruise only. Taxes and tips still be need to be added. I think if you check comparable Caribbean cruises, for the same timeframe, they would probably be double this. Where would you position the ships if they were yours?

Anybody else notice that this goes into affect days after the end of the third quarter? They probably didn’t want the stock to drop based on the earnings reported for that quarter. This will give them time to rethink their position and adjust in time for year end.

16 hours ago, kruzerci said:

Unfortunately. The Mexico and Pacifical Coastal seasonal cruises on Solstice and Eclipse have sold very poorly and sailed for less than price of the comparable Caribbean sailings this and last year. 
 

 

Many years ago Celebrity had a presence on the west coast but left for exactly the same reason. What would make them think any different?

3 hours ago, Mum2Mercury said:

I'm retired, but I'm still mid-50s -- so not quite old enough for most of these senior citizen discounts; once I'm old enough, though, I'll take advantage!  When I hit 60 and can really find some discounts, I intend to print myself a calendar:  5% Publix, whatever else.  My grandmother used to say I "spend every dollar twice".  She wasn't wrong.  

By the number of homeless people, too many followed the idea of spending every dollar twice. Granted, there are many reasons for that, immigrant being one of them I would guess a vast majority of them is $$$ related, they must have had the “spend two dollars for ever one dollar  philosophy.
For example, there is an area called The Zone, where a good share of them camp out in boxes, tents, and other things. If you’re ever in Phoenix, it’s located on Jefferson St., between 7th and 16th Ave. There are only a few businesses there but it’s only a few blocks from the state capital building and a lot of other government ones too. Several months ago the businesses sued the city and the judge gave the city a deadline to clean it up, and extended the time several times. Bottom line, last I heard there are more people living there than when they started.

One last point to help explain my logic.        My sister, and her husband both had full time jobs but they too went with the spending two for one idea, so they had very little savings. Then the bomb dropped, all the kids were gone and her husband got a big promotion and a 20% raise. Big new house, new cars, travel, etc. Like my dad used to say “Spending money like a drunken sailor on shore leave”.  Her company downsized and she lost her job. Because of the debt she had to find a different job and the best thing she could find was as a waitress. They were hanging on by the skin of their teeth then Covid hit, and she lost her job.

Today: They lost the house and due to their  financial situation, they had to get an apartment as they couldn’t afford a house. They are divorced, in their mid 60s and no retirement in the near future. I have a brother, like me not a financial worry in the world, but we had been warning them for years, the rabbit hole they were digging, but they just ignored us.

They didn’t care about their future so why should we bail them out? Maybe the kids are doing something.

23 hours ago, sheeng said:

Exactly my question! I have an upgrade “Pending”. I can’t amend it but do NOT want it if I now have to pay gratuity on 16 nights in an upper suite!!! We are currently in a SS with premium everything.

According to what I read, just don’t change your reservation for any reason after the cutoff date. Rate adjustments and move ups are two mentioned as no nos.

Our last regular (non suite) cruise was in December 2016, on Celebrity Silhouette, and was supposed to be our last cruise with any line. Sometimes the best is not good enough. In 2018 I started looking at suites to see pricing I could live with. Did the Grand Suite, on the Allure of Seas, for 14 days, and at about $200 p.p. per day all in, we figured we could live with that. We also did 14 days on MSC Seaside, in the Yacht Club, for about the same price and WOW, when had a cruise that we really liked, it’s been a long time since that happened. In 2019 we tried 14 days on the Equinox, against my better judgement, just to find out why it got such high reviews. $300 per person per day.

The experience was nice but not anywhere near justifying the cost. We also did another 14 days on MSC Seaside, WOW WOW we have a winner.

Fast foreword to 2023 and all prices, for any line, any cabin categories, show anything anywhere near any value to us, no we’ll gladly stay home.

Our decisions are based strictly on value, not just the price. The cutbacks, and other changes tell us to save our cash. 
We did our homework and know the differences in the suite pricing.

We have done 84 days in the Oasis class ships, and 230 days on Celebrity so know the ships. What they were earlier and have guessed things haven’t got any better after the Covid shutdown.

This is our feelings, and our money, we do not have to justify it to anybody.

Since some of the responses have strayed from the original post…….

We live in a retirement community near Phoenix. Our garbage is not picked up by the city but by a private company. Because of the occasional coyote, bobcat, and javelinas canvassing the neighborhood for food. Living within ten minutes of two eighteen hole golf courses does’t help as that is home to most of them. Hence, our garbage cans are in ground, in a metal cylinder, with a hinged top. This is up by the garage, next to the driveway.

Garbage is picked up twice a week, even weeks including a holiday. The guys who pick it up have a big barrel, on wheels, and they have to do go up every driveway to pick it up. That’s 52 weeks times twice a week equals 104 times a year. They also pick up recycle twice a month, but that is picked up at the curb which is 24 trips a year. That’s 128 times a year, per home.

Bottom line, they do all this for less than tips, for a seven day cruise in a suite.

Oh, anything that can’t fit in the can, no food items, can be left at the curb.

4 hours ago, Jeremiah1212 said:

 

If only it were that simple. RCI frequently has kids sail free or reduced 3/4 person rates that make it cheaper for families than Celebrity since they rarely offer a discount targeted at the 3/4 passenger. A lot of people choose RCI because they want the circus at sea. Then they turn around and buy Royal's expensive drink package and spend a fortune on activities and upgrades. A lot of people think Celebrity is too stuffy and boring so it's not even on their radar. There is more to the equation than just the bottom line price. 

It is just that simple. People are willing to pay for the experience that gives them the best bang for their buck, if that means paying more for drink packages and experiences is just part of their evaluation of what led them to go with RCL.

According to all you experts, price is driven by supply and demand. The pricing says more people think RCL is a better deal. Not everybody is willing to pay for the drink packages, internet, or even the obc.

6 minutes ago, awhcruiser said:

I think you are looking to wrong people with regards to lost luggage?  Do the dock people work for  Celebrity?  They (luggage loaders) are responsible.

Aren’t the luggage loaders/unloaders the crew? The one poster said all the luggage was on the same rack yet one never showed up at the room.

I worked for a major midwest paper converting operation. We were the biggest fish in the area and sales people were banging on my door to get a piece of the action.

Anybody can service the account when things are going good, What happens when things go south? The people we partnered with were true partners our problem became their #1 priority. We had 24/7, including holidays , access to anything we needed. If they were more than an hour away, they would deliver it. They stocked the long lead time items expensive items that we used at least one a year. High volume packaging materials.. They stocked them and delivered them daily based on our need. This is just the tip of the iceberg. No, it was not free, cost analysis were run by accounting and the savings were in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. I don’t remember how they figured the expensive long lead times in, if they did. Burden on our biggest, fastest machine was $50,000 per hour.

This was back in the 1990s.

That’s why they paid me the big bucks.

There were companies out there that were cheaper, but like the cruise lines they want to give you the least they can but still can suck every penny out of you they can. They never got in the door, the phone was never answered, or messages returned.

3 hours ago, marci22 said:

This one.

I’m sure that Enron, Lehman Brothers, Chrysler, the 52% of the 2020 Fortune 500, and many more felt the same way.

1 hour ago, GoochDSA said:

 

Worst vacation ever? Sounds to me like it was a once in a lifetime experience that you got a good story out of. You experienced first-hand what the first few days of a post-apocalyptic society would look like (anxiety, irritation, unknowing, the hunt for food, acceptance, survival, etc.). It may have not been ideal, but I am sure it is more memorable than some vacations that went very smoothly. Or maybe I am just too much of a cup-half-full kind of guy. 

What about getting flights back home, in a timely manner? Maybe people have to get back for work, school, or other plans that might have been made? If seen the results of a hurricane first hand and found it very disturbing and distressing, no thank you.

If they are indeed, making changes to Celebrity to make it more like Royal Caribbean, that should tell you which line is the biggest moneymaker for the RCL Group. If it was Celebrity, they would be doing just the opposite.

34 minutes ago, Ret MP said:

Speaking of Debt:

 

https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/RCL/royal-caribbean-cruises/debt-equity-ratio

 

 

I bring this up only to show that RCCL is moving in the right direction, now.  However, if they are successful in bringing the debt-to-equity ratio down to a more sane level, like 1 or less, I'm betting 99% of the recent reductions in services and upcharges for traditionally included items will not go away.

 

DISCLOSURE:  I'm no market Guru.  Just a layman.  This was just a quick search and my premise is to predict, not debate the merits of the market.

 

I’d raise the odds up to 99.9%.

1 hour ago, markeb said:

They match status up to Diamond (Elite, Elite +, and Zenith match to Diamond). They do NOT honor points as such. Same in reverse from RCL to Celebrity. 

They match the status but you have 0 pts. To get to the next level you have to get the total number of points needed, not just the difference. This is a one time only deal. If you make the n t level on RCL, you can’t use it to move up on Celebrity.

1 hour ago, bouhunter said:

If you've been anywhere near a grocery or gas station or restaurant the past couple years, it's obvious that MANY things are up more than the inflation rates one sees reported in the media.

At least grocery stores have real sales vs the smoke and mirror sales the cruise line has, and the prices are good for the whole week, unless it says limited quantities and usually they are few and far between. For example, milk this week $1.34 per gallon, dozen eggs $.67 per dozen, and butter $1.67 per pound. Any cruise “sales” that hold their “sales” price for a full week?

Around the major holidays the things near and dear to me usually go on sale. Beer, 30 pack $16.46 ($15.45 pre pandemic) limit 5. Finger food (chips, Fritos, etc) $1.99 per bag. Same size bag, same price pre pandemic. Labor Day pricing should be available tomorrow night.

Gas $4.49 a gallon now in the Phoenix area. Not much of a problem as we put on less than 2,000 miles per year and have a fairly gas friendly car.

3 hours ago, RichYak said:

It's 2023. I want to be able to communicate with whoever needs to contact me, on whatever device they're calling or texting me from, whenever they need to reach me--not just when I have a limited minutes of wifi turned on.

You have my deepest sympathy, I’m glad that the world will still exist if I unplug for a week or two, or however long.

6 hours ago, BNBR said:

 

Great. I'm covered with that then. 🤣

 

2 nights short of Diamond. I'll survive until the next one.

It’s limited brands of beer, wine. and soda, and only available from 11am to 11pm and only in the suite bar. The best part of it is the suite bar and restaurant are in the same room so you can have a drink or two while you dine.

1 hour ago, RichYak said:

Agreed. 240 wifi minutes aren’t helpful with incoming phone calls unless you have great timing. 

If you, and who ever you want communicate with, have an Apple phone or ipad, you can use FaceTime. We were able to talk, and see the other person. It worked everywhere, including Europe and transAtlantics. This was before the pandemic and SkyLink.

Maybe Samsung or other phone companies have something similar.

37 minutes ago, NutsAboutGolf said:

 

If you want no more than 3-4 drinks a day, maybe that's accurate yet it isn't nor should be pitched as a one size fits all.  Additionally, if you're Elite or above, you have the access to the free happy hour which makes this a bit more complex

If you’re Elite+ you get 240 minutes p.p. The free drinks are more than we normally drink and we have never used all our internet minutes, even on a transAtlantic. I see on this website they are premium minutes. Based on this, it’s  a no brained as people say.

Labor Day is only a week and a half away. I think it’s a little late for any meaningful sales.