Here we go again. AB booking HC cabins.

Take a look at this thread. I just cant beleive the number of people who support AB people who book HC cabins.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=311574

Please go add your 2 cents to the post because they think I'm nuts when I tell them they will not move someone.

Oh, I gave them my 2 cents believe me! I am going to get flamed big time. I just don't care anymore......I am getting so sick of these selfish people.

Please go add your 2 cents to the post because they think I'm nuts when I tell them they will not move someone.

How do you know the cruiselines will not move an able person from a HC room if needed??

We did just that on the Carnival Liberty- we needed a HC cabin and they moved the person out of the OC cabin when we showed proof of need. It was not a problem.

I posted last night shortly after the thread came on the board. It appeared at that time that the OP was genuinely concerned about being put in a wheelchair accessible stateroom, but based on the OPs subsequent response, they really don't. I'm not even sure why the OP posted, unless it was to get other people's comments to help to assuage feelings of guilt.

What really disturbs me is if Travelocity is really showing these in the general inventory, then anyone can book them. The Crown is the first of the Grand Class ships to have any wheelchair accessible minisuites--you can't get any higher category than a balcony on the other Grand class ships. Perhaps we should all call Princess and complain/draw this to their attention that these staterooms are in the general inventory and not being held per the Princess policy. What might really help is that if someone who is a TA or has a good relationship with a TA could get some of those district/regional managers to call about this. Anyone else have any suggestions?

Serene, Carnival seems to be more of the exception. I think it also helps that Carnival has a Special Services office that manages disabled issues. Regretably Princess does not.

I have tried to do this on different Princess cruises and have been told that the wheelchair accessible rooms I'm seeking are booked. They also say that the reservation system does NOT note where someone is AB but in a wheelchair accessible stateroom and they cannot/will not contact the people booked in them to find out if they are really disabled. Sometimes they say privacy issues prevents them from doing this and sometimes they just say that they don't do it. I'm not the only perso who has tried this. Several of the other disabled who post on this board have reported the same experience.

I have only had one experience in getting a wheelchair accessible stateroom on Princess and that was many years ago, when, almost nine months in advance, every single one of the Panama Canal cruises offered that entire spring by Princess had NO wheelchair accessible staterooms left. I contacted many people with no success (as did my TA, who was one of those TAs who was often recommended for Princess cruises by CC board members before the rules changed) and finally was able to reach the Princess access officer. While she wouldn't do it for any of the holiday or potential spring break periods (although I'm not sure how many people sail a twelve day cruise for spring break or Presidents week), she did pick a sailing that had the fewest bookings and contact the people in the wheelchair accessible stateroom and get them to move to another stateroom. BTW, there were many regular staterooms of this same category available, but people had booked the HC staterooms because they were bigger. This was the only time we were able to do it and since then, the telephone number I had for the Princess Access officer doesn't work and Princess will not give you the telphone number or name of the person. In fact, Princess wouldn't do it before, but I managed to get the name and telephone number from a private contact/source, but that source is no longer in a position to get me the telephone number or other contact information. So it is practically impossible to get anyone at Princess to help with this type of situation.

So Serene, although Princess is the sister to Carnival and owned by the same company, their actual handing of wheelchair accessible stateroom assignments and disabled issues is much different. I really wish Carnival Corp would establish firm policies and set up a Best Practices for managing disabled issues and require all of their cruise line companies to follow them.

How do you know the cruiselines will not move an able person from a HC room if needed??

 

We did just that on the Carnival Liberty- we needed a HC cabin and they moved the person out of the OC cabin when we showed proof of need. It was not a problem.

Because Princess won't do it. They will even tell you they don't have anyway of know if the person really is handicap.

When you fill in the Princess personalizer it asks that question if you are wheelchair bound or limited mobility with no wheelchair.

First, let me clarify my last post. I tried to edit it, but the system won't let you after about 20 minutes or so.

I have booked wheelchair accessible staterooms on Princess before, usually by booking a year or more in advance. What I meant was that I have only been able to get Princess to check on and move someone in a wheelchair accessible stateroom one time, out of the many times that we have been denied. And I think that this was only because I managed to contact the Princess Access officer--something I have no longer been able to do.

Cusyl, you are correct that the personalizer asks for this information. So if someone has filled out the personalizer that information should be available. That is one of the things that is so frustrating--it appears the information should be available, but Princess reps say that they cannot/will not be able to access individual reservations, even for wheelchair accessible rooms, to determine if the personalizer has been filled out and, if so, what info is in it.

I've raised this point myself, but to no avail. I'm sure others have probably done so as well. Again, Princess either claims Privacy issues or that they have no mechanism/procedure set up to check and move people that aren't disabled so disabled people can get one of the few wheelchair accessible staterooms on the ship.

HAL frequently allows AB pax to book its HC rooms way in advance.

They do not flag these cabins as being occupied by AB pax. I have that on the record from one of the cruise line's hotel managers.

I was reading a roll call for a HAL ship -- the group going the week before me. There was a woman on the roll call bragging about her HC room and how it was bigger, etc. but she would give it up if an HC person needed it. She even gave her cabin #.

I told her that HAL would not move her, that she had taken the cabin off the inventory list and no HC person could book it.

To prove my case, I had DH call HAL and ask if that room was available on that ship that particular week. He told the agent he was HC.

She said no, the room was booked.

He asked her if it was booked by an AB person.

She said she did not know, had no way of telling. She then said that HAL only books HC cabins for HC pax!

And he told her she was wrong ... and told her all about the roll call!

The OP on the other thread is keeping her handicapped cabin and keeping it 'flagged'. Says she will leave these boards as we gave her such a hard time and I was rude.

Is trying to educate people considered rude?

Serene56:

Yes, Carnival will move AB passengers from HC cabins. In fact, one time when we wanted to book fairly last minute and there were no HC cabins left, they actually called passengers booked in an HC cabin until they found someone who did not need it. Of course, they may know who to call because they require you for fill out a special needs form. HAL requires one too and states that you may be moved if you do not provide one so I am surprised that to hear that they will not do so. RCCL, Princess and, I believe, NCL do not require any documentation unless you have a special need like oxygen.

Given that I know they will not try to move AB from an HC cabin, I get really frustrated when I occaisionally see HC cabins available to be chosen on line while there are still other cabins in that category available.

On our first HAL cruise [2003] we booked an HC room and were not sent a form to fill out. That surprised us. We went through a TA, not HAL itself.

All subsequent HAL cruises [also booked through TAs] we were required to fill out the form. DH only recalls it asking for the type of equipment he would be bringing aboard [powerchair].

I sat with the hotel manager of the Westerdam for more than an hour discussing disabilities issues. I told him how many people on message boards insist HC rooms are flagged when they are occupied by HC pax. He said that is not the case.

He did tell me he and his staff are made aware of which pax have wheelchairs/scooters, in case of an emergency. But if there are pax in an HC room who don't have that equipment [or haven't told HAL about a mobility problem], he really doesn't know their status.

The OP on the other thread is keeping her handicapped cabin and keeping it 'flagged'. Says she will leave these boards as we gave her such a hard time and I was rude.

Is trying to educate people considered rude?

There are some people who are going to be selfish, and there is nothing you can do to educate them!

Obviously by leaving the boards, she chooses to close her eyes to the needs of her fellow human beings.

Perhaps a "life experience" will educate her, open her eyes.

Sad that it has to be that way for some folks.

Is trying to educate people considered rude?

No it isn't.

But people have such proud fragile egos, that hearing they should do anything differently makes them attack the educator and storm off in a huff. :)

Thank you for your support I appreciate it. You guys are great. :o

Originally Posted by Oceanwench

PLEASE don't do this!!!

PLEASE don't judge!

First of all, there are such things as invisible handicaps. You may be seeing a person who has MS and cannot walk long distances, but who does not rely on a cane or wheelchair. A person may have fibromyalgia or a heart condition.

With me being one like these are I see that most on here would come after me for taking the HC room that I may need but dont show the outward look of needing it.. Now you know why I dont book those HC rooms but face the pain I live with each day over having others be mean and nasty to me.

Originally Posted by Oceanwench

PLEASE don't do this!!!

PLEASE don't judge!

 

First of all, there are such things as invisible handicaps. You may be seeing a person who has MS and cannot walk long distances, but who does not rely on a cane or wheelchair. A person may have fibromyalgia or a heart condition.

 

With me being one like these are I see that most on here would come after me for taking the HC room that I may need but dont show the outward look of needing it.. Now you know why I dont book those HC rooms but face the pain I live with each day over having others be mean and nasty to me.

So, is what you are saying is that (those with invisible disabilities who may not use a wheelchair) are qualified to be placed in an accessible stateroom that has special features built in that serve to mitigate a disabling condition?

If that is the case would you please let us know why someone who does not use a wheelchair/scooter/etc need a stateroom that is modified to enable the presence of one? Just what special accessibllity feature of an accessible stateroom could possibly serve to mitigate the pain of a non-wheelchair using passenger? Deafness is a disability, mostly invisible, are you suggesting that those who are deaf and who have no mobility issues that would require them to need the special mitigating features of extra-wide doorways should out-of-hand be served up an accessible stateroom when special add-on lights and other hearing-impaired mitigating equipment can be added to any stateroom if the ship is so equipped? This reminds me of the marathon runner at work who insisted that he qualified for an accessible parking space because he had lost his left arm below the elbow.

I suspect that this issue will inevitably be brought to court if and when someone who is an ADA-qualified person with a disability cares to pursue it. As for invisible disabilities, someone who claims one should keep in mind the purpose of a wheelchair accessible stateroom.

(wheelchair)-accessible staterooms are for those folks who use an assistive device that cannot fit through the doorway of a standard stateroom. I know folks who travel with a travel scooter that fits through a standard stateroom door; and yes they are disabled, but no they don't need an accessible stateroom. Nor do they book one ( hence the reason for purchasing the travel scooter).

I've also received letters from folks who have kids with ADD and feel they are entitled to an accessible stateroom (even though their kids have no mobility disability). They say (and I quote) "it's one of the few perks I get from having a disabled child and I think I'm entitled to the extra room."

First off, the accessible room is not a "perk".

Second, if you don't have an assistive device that can't fit into a standard room, then you really shouldn't be requesting it. If you have a sensory disability, they have kits that can adapt *any* room.

I'm not saying that there aren't "invisible" disabilities, but for the most part those folks with those invisible disabilities don't need an accessible room. It's really different from a parking space.

Candy

My mom is a full-time wheelchair users so I have to book accessible cabins for her to cruise. This is very difficult since many able people are noticing the larger cabins on the deck layouts and the cruiselines don't monitor who is booking these cabins. It's getting harder to find a cabin without planning far ahead. I replied to a thread today on the RC board from someone wanting to know whether the handicapped cabins had larger balconies than regular cabins. I don't know for certain that the person was an able-bodied person or not, but since s/he was only inquiring about balcony size, I assumed s/he is and replied accordingly.

One of the things I noticed about Holland America line is that they have semi-accessible cabins now. I think some of the other mainstream lines should look into that. The cabin have higher toilet seats and grab bars for those who have mobility issues but do not need the additional space required to wheelchair users. These cabins are near the elevators and good for the elderly and those with minor problems. Most of the other cruise lines only have accessible or non-accessible cabins so those with minor mobility problems have to book a fully accessible cabin to get the extra bars, shower seats, etc. needed for them to function on their cruise. It doesn't cost much, doesn't require more cabin space, and it makes it easier for those with minor needs to get a cabin. It won't cut back those without needs from wanting the larger cabins, however.

So, is what you are saying is that (those with invisible disabilities who may not use a wheelchair) are qualified to be placed in an accessible stateroom that has special features built in that serve to mitigate a disabling condition?

 

If that is the case would you please let us know why someone who does not use a wheelchair/scooter/etc need a stateroom that is modified to enable the presence of one? Just what special accessibllity feature of an accessible stateroom could possibly serve to mitigate the pain of a non-wheelchair using passenger?

 

My DH uses crutches, has CP, does not use a wheelchair. He requires grab bars by the toilet, and a place to sit when he showers. He does not require an accessible room in most circumstances, but he does require a modified bathroom. It would be nice if all bathrooms were "universally" accessible.

Would you allow him to use an accessible stateroom?

Go over and help me out they think that the disabled have advantages that able bodied don't. Looking for quads, paras and thier families to help them understand that life isn't just a wheelchair and everything is merry.

you know cjh, I don't think they *ever* will understand.

To be honest, it's hard to understand until you've really had some personal experience with it. Not that I'm excusing them; it's just that in my experience you can talk till you are blue in the face and some folks just see that "extra room" as a perk. Or that "priority boarding" as a privilege. They think it's something that the dis folks "get". They don't understand that without that room, they can't maneuver a wc around their cabin. Or that without that priority boarding they are too tired to do anything for three days.

I'm just thinking that you have a more productive outlet for your energy. They just won't get it, unitl it somehow effects them personally.

And to add insult to injury, they get real pissy (and rude) about it. And look at us as troublemakers.

Candy

you know cjh, I don't think they *ever* will understand.

 

To be honest, it's hard to understand until you've really had some personal experience with it. Not that I'm excusing them; it's just that in my experience you can talk till you are blue in the face and some folks just see that "extra room" as a perk. Or that "priority boarding" as a privilege. They think it's something that the dis folks "get". They don't understand that without that room, they can't maneuver a wc around their cabin. Or that without that priority boarding they are too tired to do anything for three days.

 

I'm just thinking that you have a more productive outlet for your energy. They just won't get it, unitl it somehow effects them personally.

 

And to add insult to injury, they get real pissy (and rude) about it. And look at us as troublemakers.

 

Candy

I know, right now they want to know why we don't book as far in advance as they do. I tried to explain that sometimes medically you can't. But they want to know what would prevent you from booking far in advance.

Cindy

There are many people out there who do not use mobility aids but need the space and accessibility of HC cabins. Some people can't manage the step in or out of the bathroom let alone the shower/bath. Some people need assistance getting in and out of bed. Try helping someone out of bed in 2 feet of space. People with balance issues can fall at the best of times let alone on a rocking ship. Try lifting a 200 lb person off the ground when there's no room to maneuver. Some people can't bend their knees when walking making it very hard to get through narrow doors and hallways.

In no way am I minimizing the needs of people in WC's but please realize that there are other disabilities that require the same space.

Happy sailing