Here we go again. AB booking HC cabins.

[Arwenmark]

The reason I object is that they do not follow up on this.. They will SOMETIMES say that you need to send documents. and most of us that need the cabins DO send the documents and deal with the extra hassle, however ADA says you cannot ask about disablities other then to ask what accomodations you will need.

If I go to a hotel and request an accessible room I don't have to provide proof I need it or answer medical questions. Of course when I arrive in a wheelchair it becomes clear but that is beside the point.

It annoys me because the cruiseline says you must provide this information then does not follow up to see if it was provided. So those who book the cabin without any need just "want" simply ignore the request for verification of need. So require something, but something based on the ADA and Supreme court ruling and apply it without exception, no letter no cabin etc.

[Arwenmark]

The reason I object is that they do not follow up on this.. They will SOMETIMES say that you need to send documents. and most of us that need the cabins DO send the documents and deal with the extra hassle, however ADA says you cannot ask about disablities other then to ask what accomodations you will need.

If I go to a hotel and request an accessible room I don't have to provide proof I need it or answer medical questions. Of course when I arrive in a wheelchair it becomes clear but that is beside the point.

It annoys me because the cruiseline says you must provide this information then does not follow up to see if it was provided. So those who book the cabin without any need just "want" simply ignore the request for verification of need. So require something, but something based on the ADA and Supreme court ruling and apply it without exception, no letter no cabin etc.

[Moeve]

Don't get me wrong but please explain how the cruise lines should validate the fact that you require such a special needs cabin.. if not by this method??

 

From the other side of the fence I am a little confused - on the one hand there are lots of complaints about the "wrong" people being in these cabins but if the cruise line were to follow their own rules to the T and require a Dr Note you would also throw the "legal" book at them too. Please explain just how that is supposed to work. There are alot of posts on this thread where poeple are complaining about the cruiselines not putting aside theses cabins for them but how do you expect the cruiselines decide who is entitled to such a cabin and who not.

 

I have to admit this is a relatively new topic for me since I only recently aquired a client who has had an accident about 5 years ago and is paralized from the neck down. He has discovered cruising for himself and his wife. These boards are almost always a unbeatable source of info and tips. When I called all the cruiselines to ask about procedures here in Europe every single one stated the required some form of medical coroberance of the passengers condition before these special needs cabins would even be asked for at headquaters. After talking to my client even he thought it was fair enough. I mean to my knowledge they are not asking you to provide your full medical file but rather a discription of how severe your particular disablity is..

 

I would also think this is a liabliity and safety factor too. In the event of an emergancy at sea would you be able to help yourself to a certain extend or what kind of help do you require. Im the case of my client he employs a male nurse who always travels with them but he too would need help in moving his patient if for example the ship were listing...

 

With what I have just said in mind would you still be against some sort of "screening process"? with all due respect but hotels do not have quite the same risk to the safety of the Handicaped person as ship or planes for that matter do have. If we are honest persons who are not very mobile do have a higher risk at sea and in the air - it is not a comforting thought but is my assumption wrong? It may not be politically correct but it may be a very unpleasant fact.

[Queenie2]

Don't get me wrong but please explain how the cruise lines should validate the fact that you require such a special needs cabin.. if not by this method??

 

Well, the problem is legally (now that cruise ships are covered under the ADA, even though there are no architectural specs for them yet) they can't ask you for details or for you to prove your disability. They can only ask you what accommodations or services you require because of your disability.

 

We are kind of in a transition period here, but I expect when the dust settles (meaning when the specs are released) the cruise lines will have strict guidelines for their employees detailing what they can and can't ask when a person self-declares that he or she has a disability. And I expect the whole "documentation" requirement will be dropped.

 

No, it's not a great system. But I think the only thing that can be done about it is to change the law. And I don't think that's a good idea either, as I'm all for protecting privacy.

 

No solution, just an evaluation of the situation.

 

Candy

[Moeve]

Queenie you missed the last part of my post - you cannot seriously be compairing a hotel room (which does not move around or sink) with a ship... The safety / rescue measures at sea are the real problem.

 

Gee the hotel will had the fire brigade a list of occupied rooms and will tell the HC Room xx is ocuppied with a WC - Even here the HC person will not be able to help themselves if the HC room in not on ground level since in most cases Elevators are turned off imeadiately... Hotels in trouble tend to get help from the outside quite quickly...

 

The situtation is very different at sea.... The officer in charge has to know if this passenger will require 4 men to carry him to his boat for example - he can only decide that if the officers knows cabin XX has an occupant who requires that kind of help.

 

Lets all face a fact we may not really like but cruising is fun and practicable for our fellow human beings who are not as lucky as us AB until the point when things really start going wrong (fire, severe listing)- then they are at very serious disadvantage...

[shamrockace]

I am in the public transportation business and we do require some type of letter from a doctor in order to get the disability 1/2 price fare. FTA is always under scrunity in regards to ADA. So I don't think it is out of line to require a doctor's note of some kind. Like someone else said, they don't have to give specifics.

[shamrockace]

I also have a dilema. We booked our Alaskan cruise a year in advance. We told our TA that my DH would need to bring his manual wheelchair for distances. He can stand and walk short distances only and only for a short time (stand). She booked us in a HC room. This is our first cruise and we did not realize there were so few HC rooms available.

Once we are in our room, my DH could do without the wheelchair. So should I speak to my TA and have our room changed to a regular room?

[katisdale]

Does your husband need a handicapped height toilet? The only rooms that have them are w/c accessible rooms. Also can he step up into the bathroom. Every regular cabin I have had has had a step that can cause problems. Does he need handrails to get into the shower and up and down from the toilet? I can currently use a regular cabins BUT if the time comes where the step becomes a problem or I cannot rise from a regular height toilet I will be forced to reserve the w/c room. I agree with others who advocate universal design but since that is not the state we currently have available everyone must decide what they need to do.

[Queenie2]

Queenie you missed the last part of my post - you cannot seriously be comparing a hotel room (which does not move around or sink) with a ship... The safety / rescue measures at sea are the real problem.

w if this passenger will require 4 men to carry him to his boat for example.

 

No. I have no problem with a hotel asking folks if they need assistance to evacuate after they book (and take occupancy of) an accessible room. Happens all the time. Nor do I have a problem with the cruise lines asking that of all their guests. But I have a problem if you ask guests to prove (document) their disability in order to book an accessible room. Self-declaring is OK under the ADA.

 

And Shamrock - the discount issue is an entirely different. It's not what we are talking about here.

 

Candy

[LittleBirdie]

Are the cabins designated as "handicapped/wheelchair accessible" or "reserved for the handicapped"?

 

If they are "reserved for" then I believe it is correct to require documentation that the passenger is entitled to reserve and occupy the cabin. I believe this should be strictly enforced.

 

If they are "accessible" that only means that someone in a wheelchair or scooter (walker etc) can gain access. It does not imply that they are for the exclusive use of the handicapped.

 

for example: Parking spots are "reserved for" and you need a permit. Bathroom stalls are "accessible" which means someone in a wheelchair can get into the stall and use the grab bars to help transfer onto the raised toilet etc...but *anyone* can use the accessible stall if they want)

 

My feeling is that since there are so few accessible cabins, they should be "reserved for"....up until some time shortly before the cruise. If they are not reserved by then, they should be opened up for others to use. The cruiseline shouldn't have to sail with empty cabins if there is someone who wants the cabin and no handicapped person has come forward to reserve it.

 

<stepping off soap box>

[shamrockace]

:( My bad. I'll keep my mouth shut in the future. Good thing I attend an ADA training tomorrow.

[Arwenmark]

Are the cabins designated as "handicapped/wheelchair accessible" or "reserved for the handicapped"?

 

If they are "reserved for" then I believe it is correct to require documentation that the passenger is entitled to reserve and occupy the cabin. I believe this should be strictly enforced.

 

If they are "accessible" that only means that someone in a wheelchair or scooter (walker etc) can gain access. It does not imply that they are for the exclusive use of the handicapped.

 

for example: Parking spots are "reserved for" and you need a permit. Bathroom stalls are "accessible" which means someone in a wheelchair can get into the stall and use the grab bars to help transfer onto the raised toilet etc...but *anyone* can use the accessible stall if they want)

 

My feeling is that since there are so few accessible cabins, they should be "reserved for"....up until some time shortly before the cruise. If they are not reserved by then, they should be opened up for others to use. The cruiseline shouldn't have to sail with empty cabins if there is someone who wants the cabin and no handicapped person has come forward to reserve it.

 

<stepping off soap box>

 

Yes they should be reserved for, but the problem is that anyone can book them and say they need it and will send the documentation, but then never send it and still get the cabin.

As for the bathroom issue, some states actually do require the HC stalls to be only used by HC, but of course no one enforces that, but it is one the books in some states.

I would not even have an issue with the whole doctors note thing IF they made everyone do it and follow through without exception. As I say they do NOT.

[LittleBirdie]

Yes they should be reserved for, but the problem is that anyone can book them and say they need it and will send the documentation, but then never send it and still get the cabin.

As for the bathroom issue, some states actually do require the HC stalls to be only used by HC, but of course no one enforces that, but it is one the books in some states.

I would not even have an issue with the whole doctors note thing IF they made everyone do it and follow through without exception. As I say they do NOT.

 

You hit the nail on the head. The cruise lines NEED TO ENFORCE the rules!

 

Thank you for letting me know that some states make accessible stalls for HC only. I've never heard of that.

[DesrtDrmr]

Shamrockarse, I don't think you are out of line booking an accessible cabin. I'll bet your husband could use the shower seat if he can't stand for very long, and the flat floor bathroom, instead of the steps. If he is at all unsteady, he may need the assistance bars in the bathroom. I know that if I had a "universal design" cabin with shower, assist bars, higher toilet and wider door for my scooter and/or chair, I could use a "regular" cabin. It's too bad that there aren't more of these cabins that everyone could use.

I agree that it's a bit much to have to explain your medical history, with a doctor's declaration yet, just to book a cabin you need. I am, however, in favor of some kind of card that you could carry, like the parking hangtag, that would "officially" identify you. (Of course, then you'd have the people like our aquaintances, that use the one grandma had when she passed away). There are always trade-offs, I guess.

In my town, in order to use the public handicap accessible buses, you have to go down to the bus station and complete an exercise to see just how mobile you are.............I think that is over the top, too! My mother had to go down and show the examiner how she would "RUN" for a bus..................she's 90, and uses a scooter....................horrible. She got her pass, and was so humiliated, she wont even use it. :(

[etoile]

I agree with DesrtDrmr. The HC room isn't just about having extra space to maneuver the wheelchair, there are other features too that make it a better option for many disabled people. I would even support someone who doesn't have a wheelchair at all using a HC room if they needed to. For example, someone who has had a stroke and cannot move easily, but doesn't use a wheelchair...they can make use of the grab bars, the shower seat, etc. It's a matter of safety, not convenience...if you need those features so you will be safe, then you are by all means entitled to them.

[Moeve]

I think we can agree that the system needs to be perfected...

1) The cruiselines need to "RESERVE" these cabins for passengers with disabilities.

2) Passenger should ALL have to produce a Dr. Note (not detailed but rather like my patient requires the use of handrails or my patient is wheelchair bound - something along those lines)

3) Cruiselines must insist on this documentation - without it NO BOARDING period.

4) Cruiselines should be allowed to release these cabin 4 weeks prior to sailing BUT AB passengers in these cabins need to be told they could be bumped if and here is where it get difficult a standard cabin is available in the same cat or higher. Cruiselines cannot downgrade someone who booked a garantee early for a HC person who books less than 4 weeks to departure. You would have to agree that would not be fair either.

 

Have I missed something?? Could you agree to something like that??

[Moeve]

I am having problems posting again so if this doubles up just ignore it....

 

I think we can agree the system needs to be perfected abit

 

1) Cruiselines need to "RESERVE" those cabin for Phyisically challenged passengers (I hope that is the correct term)

 

2) Passengers requiring such a cabin NEEDS to produce a Dr. Note (nothing extensively detailed but rather something along the line s of ...in my function as Dr. of mr /mrs xyz I can state that his or her condtion requires the use of handrails .... or... my patient is wheelchair bound..... something like that.

 

3) the cruiseline must insist on such documentation - without it - NO BOARDING a HC Cabin period!

 

4) Cruiselines should be allowed to release these cabins 4 weeks prior to departure and AB passengers need to be informed that they could be bumped to (and this is where it get difficult) a standard cabin in the same cat or higher. It would be very unfair and cause a lot of legal problems if regular passengers (who book a garantee earlier than the 4 week limit) were downgraded for someone who booked with in less than the 4 week limit.

 

Have I forgotten something?? If everything were implemented - would that be OK???

[LittleBirdie]

Moeve,

 

That all sounds very reasonable to me. Especially #3. They make you prove you're 55 or over, or reside in a particular state, to get discounts. They should make you prove you need the accessible cabin.

 

Little Birdie

[LittleBit]

In my town, in order to use the public handicap accessible buses, you have to go down to the bus station and complete an exercise to see just how mobile you are.............I think that is over the top, too! My mother had to go down and show the examiner how she would "RUN" for a bus..................she's 90, and uses a scooter....................horrible. She got her pass, and was so humiliated, she wont even use it. :(

 

hmmm.. I thought requiring a "test" was against the ADA - particularly if it humiliated the person.... kinda like, go try to pee over there and we'll determine whether you really need a handicap bathroom...

[Jenrose]

Ugh. Just typed something out and the computer ate it.

 

Probably better, I was getting long-winded.

 

On the Zenith, we will have the following accomodations in some of the lowest price inside cabins:

 

1. Shower stool

2. Raised toilet seat

3. Distilled water for CPAPS

4. Special foods to meet allergy needs

5. A wheelchair for my MIL who does walk but is stiff and shaky and has a hard time changing direction, for use outside the cabin

6. A fridge and sharps container for the diabetic in our party

 

We will have a total of 9 people in 3 cabins. Of us, only one person does not have stated special needs, although the kids' issues are mostly food related.

 

I would have gotten one HC cabin if I could have gotten lower priced standard cabins near it, but I think we'll be fine as is--MIL does not normally use a wheelchair, and really for her the shower and toilet are the big issues.

 

I'm just throwing this out there, because for a lot of people, you can get a whole lot of accommodation without needing the wheelchair accessible space.

 

I'm trying to remember, but it seems like our (lowest price standard) cabin on our last cruise on the zenith, there were handholds in the shower?

[etoile]

I was in an obstructed outside on the Zenith last year. There are no handholds in the shower that I remember.

[etoile]

I was in an obstructed outside on the Zenith last year. There are no handholds in the shower that I remember.

[cruie4ever]

When I didn't have bone on bone hip problems,I remember being on a cruise & dining with a couple who had a H/C cabin;but were not handicaped.

 

IMO any one who takes up a H/C cabin & is AB should be ashamed of them selves. Further the cruise lines will ultimatly loose business if they continue a policy of not monitoring H/C cabins for those who truly need them.:mad:

[cruie4ever]

umbarger I totaly agree with what you have posted.At tha t thread I gave them my "2 cents" worth.

 

IMHO any cruise line who places handicaped state rooms into their general inventory & we the H/C community knows that they are selling those H/C state rooms to AB people should not be sailed on.I beleive that the cruise lines who don't care to screen ,should not get H/C business.There are too few h/C cabins on many ships in a category that perhaps the cruise line will get the message & change their policy.

 

We can pray & hope for change.:)

[walkswife]

Oh I know we got the glare from people on our first cruise.... My husband walks with a cane in public most of the time but really needs his chair at night in the cabin after he takes his brace off..... so most of the time his chair is in the cabin where only we see it.... in order for us to use a regular cabin he would have to get his chair to the cabin take the wheels off (non collapsible chair) get it in the cabin and put the wheels back on.... god forbid should something happen at night when his brace is off he would not be able to get the chair out of the room by himself...... he also needs the chair and bars in the bathroom..... but people see him walk out with a cane and not a chair and we get the glare for taking the room..... So I do agree with the point of invisible disabilities.....

 

I will say Carnival bent over backwards for us..... on our first cruise we booked 3 weeks out so when they said they only had a modified room open not a HC.....modifieds don't have wide doors..... we were satisfied. We would deal with it..... by the time we got to the port they opened up an HC room for us by moving someone who didn't need it.... We had sent in all the necessary paperwork and didn't find it a big deal at all.... it's one page filled out and signed.... no biggee

 

I do agree all HC rooms should have to have this form. I know being disabled can be a difficult way to live.... to me having this one formed filled out is the least of the worries......