Very tough situation with possibly terminally ill family member - need advice

I will try to sum up my family's situation as briefly as possible without too much emotion, although I fear it will not be brief at all, and appreciate any advice related to cruise insurance that you all can offer.

We have 14 people booked for an Allure of the Seas cruise in June. My mom paid for everyone. The group is me and my DH and DD, my mom, stepdad, my two brothers (plus one's wife and kid), and two step-sisters (plus one's two kids).

My mom paid the cruise in full this past week. I think we will be inside the actual final payment window tomorrow. She was planning on purchasing a group insurance policy this week.

Yesterday we found out that my step-sister's mother has cancer in at least three organs. :( She will be having surgery at the end of this week to determine the extent and prognosis but it does not look good at all. My heart just aches for my sisters. I kind of get stuck here, like nothing else I have to write or think about is significant at all.

But I'm trying to help my mom figure out the best thing to do for my sisters, our whole family, and herself financially (she has about $45k in this trip).

She decided it wouldn't be the best thing to cancel my sisters trip now (before a cancellation penalty goes into effect) because she doesn't want to limit their choices, and we don't really know what the next few months hold. She is willing to sacrifice some of the cost of their trip, but obviously would rather avoid that if possible.

I spent some time on www.insuremytrip.com (the group insurance part of the site) and called customer service, and found one travel insurance policy, through Travel Guard, that covers pre-existing conditions.

According to the rep, cancelling due to a terminal illness diagnosis would be covered even though she has a cancer diagnosis, if we got the terminal diagnosis after buying the policy. This would be the case with us, as they won't know the extent of the cancer until surgery.

So I guess I am asking - does anyone have any experience with this being true?

And my other question, which I am sure my mom will ask the rep when she calls tomorrow, is how long after getting the diagnosis do we have to cancel?

It may sound harsh, but if my sister's mom's time is very limited (it might be the situation), and she passes very soon, the cruise might be a welcome respite during the grieving process. Basically, we don't want them to have decide anything right away...we want them to just be able to take it a day at a time and see how they feel.

But reading the policy, it seems that you have to inform the company right away of an event, and it is not clear how long you have to actually make the decision to cancel. Does anyone know?

Thanks for any help.

All I can tell you is that if the policy is bought far enough ahead, that some cover pre-existing conditions.*I would talk to insuremytrip in detail about this and get some solid answers..I hope all turns out well , and you have a wonderful cruise..I think it is great for all of you to be going together.:):)

I will try to sum up my family's situation as briefly as possible without too much emotion, although I fear it will not be brief at all, and appreciate any advice related to cruise insurance that you all can offer.

 

We have 14 people booked for an Allure of the Seas cruise in June. My mom paid for everyone. The group is me and my DH and DD, my mom, stepdad, my two brothers (plus one's wife and kid), and two step-sisters (plus one's two kids).

 

My mom paid the cruise in full this past week. I think we will be inside the actual final payment window tomorrow. She was planning on purchasing a group insurance policy this week.

 

Yesterday we found out that my step-sister's mother has cancer in at least three organs. :( She will be having surgery at the end of this week to determine the extent and prognosis but it does not look good at all. My heart just aches for my sisters. I kind of get stuck here, like nothing else I have to write or think about is significant at all.

 

But I'm trying to help my mom figure out the best thing to do for my sisters, our whole family, and herself financially (she has about $45k in this trip).

 

She decided it wouldn't be the best thing to cancel my sisters trip now (before a cancellation penalty goes into effect) because she doesn't want to limit their choices, and we don't really know what the next few months hold. She is willing to sacrifice some of the cost of their trip, but obviously would rather avoid that if possible.

 

I spent some time on www.insuremytrip.com (the group insurance part of the site) and called customer service, and found one travel insurance policy, through Travel Guard, that covers pre-existing conditions.

 

According to the rep, cancelling due to a terminal illness diagnosis would be covered even though she has a cancer diagnosis, if we got the terminal diagnosis after buying the policy. This would be the case with us, as they won't know the extent of the cancer until surgery.

 

So I guess I am asking - does anyone have any experience with this being true?

 

And my other question, which I am sure my mom will ask the rep when she calls tomorrow, is how long after getting the diagnosis do we have to cancel?

 

It may sound harsh, but if my sister's mom's time is very limited (it might be the situation), and she passes very soon, the cruise might be a welcome respite during the grieving process. Basically, we don't want them to have decide anything right away...we want them to just be able to take it a day at a time and see how they feel.

 

But reading the policy, it seems that you have to inform the company right away of an event, and it is not clear how long you have to actually make the decision to cancel. Does anyone know?

 

Thanks for any help.

Even if you do find a plan that will cover pre-existing conditions you need to look for several things:

1) You're only able to cancel if the person with the illness falls under the plan's definition of a "family member". While most plans will include a step-sister in that definition I doubt you'll find many that include a step-sister's mother. And I doubt you'll be able to establish any covered familial connection between your mother and your step-sister's mother. They're going to say "sorry that your daughter's step-sister's mother passed away but what has that got to do with you? According to the plan, you're not related."

2) Any policy will only cover the penalties in place when the event that triggers the decision to cancel occurs (some plans will give you 72 hours). So if the step-sister's mother is given the terminal prognosis and you wait around to actually cancel and while you're waiting the penalty percentage goes from 25% to 50% of the fare you'll lose that difference.

If the actual final payment due date hasn't occurred yet and you can still cancel the whole thing without penalty, that's what I would do.

I might take back some of that. Here's the definition of a familt member from that Travel Guard group plan:

""Family Member" means the Insured's or Traveling Companion's spouse, Domestic Partner, Child, daughter-in-law, son-in-law, brother, sister, mother, father, grandparents, grandchild, step-child, stepbrother, step-sister, step-parents, parents-in-law, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew, legal guardian, Caregiver, foster Child, ward, or legal ward, or spouse or Domestic Partner of any of the above."

Get it in writing from them that as long as the step-sisters are established as "traveling companions" then the way I'm reading this then everyone else in the group could cancel if that traveling companion's Mother passes away.

Here's the "traveling companion definition:

""Traveling Companion" means a person or persons with whom the Insured has coordinated travel arrangements and intend to travel with during the Trip. A group or tour leader is not considered a Traveling Companion, unless the Insured is sharing room accommodations with the group or tour leader."

GET IT IN WRITING

Here's the pre-ex waiver:

"PRE-EXISTING MEDICAL CONDITION EXCLUSION WAIVER

The Insurer will waive the pre-existing medical condition exclusion if the following condition is met:

1. All Insured's are medically able to travel when plan cost is paid.

2. The amount of coverage purchased equals all prepaid nonrefundable payments or deposits applicable to the Trip at the time of purchase"

There is no time period stated that the plan has to be purchased by to get the waiver. Sounds crazy to me but that's the plan wording. I guess you could wait until 24 hours before someone passes away, buy the policy and you're good. If she gets better don't bother buying it. This is just so strange that I would skip dealing with insuremytrip and deal right with the source -- Travel Guard. There might be something that plugs this huge loophole that's not in the plan wording. Something like "travel insurance only covers unexpected events. Once a person is declared to be "terminal" that death is no longer unexpected and will not be covered even if the waiver is in place."

I might take back some of that. Here's the definition of a familt member from that Travel Guard group plan:

 

""Family Member" means the Insured's or Traveling Companion's spouse, Domestic Partner, Child, daughter-in-law, son-in-law, brother, sister, mother, father, grandparents, grandchild, step-child, stepbrother, step-sister, step-parents, parents-in-law, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, aunt, uncle, niece, nephew, legal guardian, Caregiver, foster Child, ward, or legal ward, or spouse or Domestic Partner of any of the above."

 

Get it in writing from them that as long as the step-sisters are established as "traveling companions" then the way I'm reading this then everyone else in the group could cancel if that traveling companion's Mother passes away.

 

Here's the "traveling companion definition:

 

""Traveling Companion" means a person or persons with whom the Insured has coordinated travel arrangements and intend to travel with during the Trip. A group or tour leader is not considered a Traveling Companion, unless the Insured is sharing room accommodations with the group or tour leader."

 

GET IT IN WRITING

 

Here's the pre-ex waiver:

 

"PRE-EXISTING MEDICAL CONDITION EXCLUSION WAIVER

The Insurer will waive the pre-existing medical condition exclusion if the following condition is met:

 

1. All Insured's are medically able to travel when plan cost is paid.

 

2. The amount of coverage purchased equals all prepaid nonrefundable payments or deposits applicable to the Trip at the time of purchase"

 

There is no time period stated that the plan has to be purchased by to get the waiver. Sounds crazy to me but that's the plan wording. I guess you could wait until 24 hours before someone passes away, buy the policy and you're good. If she gets better don't bother buying it. This is just so strange that I would skip dealing with insuremytrip and deal right with the source -- Travel Guard. There might be something that plugs this huge loophole that's not in the plan wording. Something like "travel insurance only covers unexpected events. Once a person is declared to be "terminal" that death is no longer unexpected and will not be covered even if the waiver is in place."

cruiseco, you basically found the same definitions that I did...and ran into the same ambiguity.

When I asked about not knowing the cancer prognosis, the insuremytrip agent said that "the policy insures against unforeseen events, so if you knew her illness was terminal when purchasing the policy, the death would not be covered, but if you did not know that at the time of purchase, then the terminal illness would be covered." The agent strongly advised purchasing the policy prior to the surgery.

So I guess the key word is unforeseen? My mom is going to call tomorrow and get more answers. She is really good at getting things resolved, but needless to say, she is not in the best state of mind either.

It just stinks. We just need more time, in so many ways.

oh, and I meant to say - thank you for taking the time to look that all up for me!

 

Here's the pre-ex waiver:

 

"PRE-EXISTING MEDICAL CONDITION EXCLUSION WAIVER

The Insurer will waive the pre-existing medical condition exclusion if the following condition is met:

1. All Insured's are medically able to travel when plan cost is paid.

2. The amount of coverage purchased equals all prepaid nonrefundable payments or deposits applicable to the Trip at the time of purchase"

 

There is no time period stated that the plan has to be purchased by to get the waiver. Sounds crazy to me but that's the plan wording. I guess you could wait until 24 hours before someone passes away, buy the policy and you're good. If she gets better don't bother buying it. This is just so strange that I would skip dealing with insuremytrip and deal right with the source -- Travel Guard. There might be something that plugs this huge loophole that's not in the plan wording. Something like "travel insurance only covers unexpected events. Once a person is declared to be "terminal" that death is no longer unexpected and will not be covered even if the waiver is in place."

To clarify ... I think it's important to note that the pre-ex waiver as cited above applies to Travel Guard's group policy. Two of their other plans include the pre-ex waiver if purchased within 14 days of any travel payments. Another plan offers optional coverage and a 21-day window.

cruiseco: I know you are very knowledgeable and I do not intend to contradict you ... I just want people not buying a group policy to know that there is a pre-ex window for them.

I am sorry your family is going through this difficult situation. I don't understand the interpretation that one could purchase a policy from TG after someone's death, or terminal diagnosis and expect to be covered, especially if you read the section below.

What about this clause in a typical TG policy?

The following exclusions apply to Trip Cancellation and

Trip Interruption:

Effective Date

Would the stepsister's mom medical problems be an "event which occurs prior to Insured's coverage effective date"?

Personally, I would cancel this trip if I was outside the penalty window. $45,000 is a LOT of money to potentially lose.

First of all, I am sorry for what you are going brought.

Second, all of the replies that you have gotten are best guesses and may not be true. You need to have a long conversation with the insurance people and get all of your replies in writing.

Hope things turn out well.

DON

First of all, I am sorry for what you are going brought.

 

Second, all of the replies that you have gotten are best guesses and may not be true. You need to have a long conversation with the insurance people and get all of your replies in writing.

 

Hope things turn out well.

 

DON

An excellent reminder that you have to check the pre-ex waiver requirements for EVERY plan you're looking at, even if they're from the same insurer.

Insurance is purchased by paying a premium in order to protect an investment (in this case the cruise and other expenses) and avoid an unforeseen financial loss.

But if as of today you could cancel the whole cruise without penalty, that is the best insurance possible. Don't bother with the insurance companies because no matter what the policy says, they are going to try to get out of paying $45,000.

Cruises nowadays tend to have good availability up to the very last minute. So after receiving this news about the illness, if you are still within final payment period, and therefore non-penalized cancellation, I just don't understand the logic in paying all of that money, plus purchasing what will be expensive insurance to cover that sum of money, plus risking that the insurance company will not interpret the coverage of this event as you appear to be interpreting it.

Just cancel and when you have a better picture of the patient's prognosis and, therefore, the family's availability to travel, book another cruise at that time.

Kind regards,

Gunther and Uta

But if as of today you could cancel the whole cruise without penalty, that is the best insurance possible. Don't bother with the insurance companies because no matter what the policy says, they are going to try to get out of paying $45,000.

 

Just cancel and when you have a better picture of the patient's prognosis and, therefore, the family's availability to travel, book another cruise at that time.

I agree 100% with this advice! That's too much money to gamble with.

Don't bother with the insurance companies because no matter what the policy says, they are going to try to get out of paying $45,000.

 

Fortunately, if the insurer denies a claim despite the wording of the policy the insured can send the case to his/her state department of insurance that can levy penalties or even bar the company from selling policies to residents of that state if they feel the insured wasn't dealt with fairly. In the case of a gray area they tend to lean toward the taxpayer/voter over the out-of-state insurance company. Come election time the insurance commissioners love to trumpet how they are protecting their state's innocent victims of insurance company nefariousness.

But, yes, if it was me I'd cancel and re-book when the situation was more clear.

Just cancel and when you have a better picture of the patient's prognosis and, therefore, the family's availability to travel, book another cruise at that time.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

I appreciate all of the advice. Rest assured, my mom spent a good deal of time talking with the people she needed to today (travel agent, insurance agent, and Travel Guard). But the real world experience of people who've had to use their insurance policy in this way is also valuable to seek out.

I don't want to sound cold, but my family's consensus right now is that cancelling the entire trip for everyone would be an overreaction at this point. There are multiple ways this situation could go in which most/all of us would go on the cruise, and far fewer scenarios in which no one would go on the cruise.

Even if my sisters do not go, that doesn't necessarily preclude the rest of the family from taking the trip. Without being cold about it, people will still take vacations even while other people are sick. Someone who takes an aggressive route with cancer treatment has the potential to live for a very long time - if my step sister's mom is able to, that is what she will do.

My mom does not want to pull the trip out from under everyone. And this includes my sisters. She wants to give them a chance to breathe a little, wait and see what happens, before deciding. It didn't seem right for her to cancel only their reservations right on top of their mom's cancer diagnosis - and like I said, an overreaction to cancel everyone all at once.

I think the only scenario in which everyone would cancel was if we actually had the funeral to go to at that time...and the odds of that are relatively small. But that is a scenario in which we'd want to be able to use the insurance.

The insurance policy for all of us is only $1550-ish. Even without insurance, we have until the end of April to cancel and only lose 25% of my sister's fares, and my mom is willing to take that financial hit if necessary. We will know much better if their mom's situation is more stable or deteriorating quickly, and I think they'll be able to decide what to do with less pressure at that time.

Two years ago, I lost my mom to cancer. 71 years old, was still working full time, driving, taking care of the grandchildren, etc. Never sick a day in her life until she had extreme pains in her legs. We thought it was a blood clot but lo and behold, lung cancer that had spread throughout her other organs and bones.

She lived for about 7 months -- in a hospital room, in extreme pain, receiving every possible treatment known to mankind.

Once your step-sister's mom enters the hospital and begins aggressive treatment, you will start to note that the stress and management of that situation will become a full-time job for the immediate family -- I tell you this from personal experience.

Once this all starts to take shape, going on a cruise will become the farthest thing from their mind. Spending time at the hospital, dealing with doctors, nurses will become basically a full-time job.

At least for the step-sisters, I would recommend cancelling the cruise and rebooking at a later time.

For the rest of the family, as you say, depending upon how removed you all are from a relationship with the patient in question, you may decide you want to go. But for the immediate family involved, I wouldn't recommend it.

Kind regards,

Gunther and Uta

Two years ago, I lost my mom to cancer. 71 years old, was still working full time, driving, taking care of the grandchildren, etc. Never sick a day in her life until she had extreme pains in her legs. We thought it was a blood clot but lo and behold, lung cancer that had spread throughout her other organs and bones.

 

She lived for about 7 months -- in a hospital room, in extreme pain, receiving every possible treatment known to mankind.

 

Once your step-sister's mom enters the hospital and begins aggressive treatment, you will start to note that the stress and management of that situation will become a full-time job for the immediate family -- I tell you this from personal experience.

 

Once this all starts to take shape, going on a cruise will become the farthest thing from their mind. Spending time at the hospital, dealing with doctors, nurses will become basically a full-time job.

 

At least for the step-sisters, I would recommend cancelling the cruise and rebooking at a later time.

 

For the rest of the family, as you say, depending upon how removed you all are from a relationship with the patient in question, you may decide you want to go. But for the immediate family involved, I wouldn't recommend it.

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

I am sorry for the loss of your mother. I'm an RN and I do understand what you are saying about how all consuming the illness is.

The bottom line is that my mom did not want to pull the cruise out from under my sisters. She wants that to be their decision, without the "you have to decide in the next 48 hrs" pressure. And she is able to take a bit of a financial hit (losing 25% of their cruise fare to give them until the end of the month to decide) if necessary. I know that isn't an option for some people, but fortunately, my mom could make that choice.

After talking with the insurance company, she was reassured that my sisters are covered if their mother's condition becomes such that they don't want to leave her, or if she were to pass away. Regardless, the insurance policy is needed for the rest of us, so we would have purchased anyway.

I'll try to update with the outcome (how easy or difficult filing the claim and getting reimbursed was) if we do use the policy in the future.

My 80 year old friend likes to take 4-5 day cruises out of the US, when he can get a good deal, usually Mexico and his agent knows him well, and he has untreated cancer. He is still able to get around, but is only on Medicare and he refuses to pay for insurance for the cruise. He is from a different country and has some language issues, but has been a citizen for a long time. I told his agent, who I also know personally, I don't think he should go on cruises (he goes alone) when he starts feeling worse. She replied well he really likes to go, and now she is calling him pressureing him and trying to book more cruises right after he gets back from the one he has booked for in a couple weeks. He pays cash. I've told him how I feel. If he gets worse on one of these cruises, I'm afraid he will end up in another country for the remainder of his life, who knows where.

My question is, isn't there a law or something that should prohibit agents from selling cruises to terminally ill folks without insurance for medical emergencies? Yes, he should not book them, but he is 80, and she is pressuring him and she is well aware of his illness.

There is no such law. Surprisingly, sometimes I guess the government expects us to act like adults and take responsibility for ourselves. Is this agent an ASTA member?

Maybe your friend is really quite aware of this issue, and just doesn't care?

What is ASTA and would that make a difference? Do they have guidlines? No, she doesn't care, just wants commissions now. There have been other issues with that friendship that made him distance himself, but she continues to call with offers, and if it is good, he takes it , even tho he told her he would call her, when he wanted something. He doesn't have the inner strength to tell her to leave him alone. if she catches him in the right mood, she gets a sale. She doen't seem to care anymore if he will be okay to go or not down the road.

Isn't there a professional code with agents, or the cruise ships, on booking sick people? Should I try the cruise line?

What is ASTA and would that make a difference? Do they have guidlines?

http://www.asta.org/

Yes, if she's a member, they have a professional code of ethics. You should be able to find out if she is a member.

Isn't there a professional code with agents

Yes, with ASTA members:

http://www.asta.org/About/content.cfm?ItemNumber=745&navItemNumber=9364

Should I try the cruise line?

You have no standing here. Why would the cruise line care if he has insurance or not? About all you could do is report her to ASTA if she's a member, and I don't know how to do this, or how you could prove anything. If your friend takes her calls, and he doesn't want insurance, what can you do? This really is up to him. If you feel he is a danger to himself or others, call the police.

My concern is that she is taking advantage of him, his age, lack of good common sense at his age for making decisions and he is ill and could become very sick while on board and die. She is well aware of his illness. I could not find her on AFTA. I guess if it continues, I will need to make a threat to her that I will report her and perhaps scare her.

This really is not the place to discuss this issue, but if you think this person is incapable of taking care of himself, you can petition the court to establish a conservatorship.

If you think this TA is breaking some law, call the police and discuss this with them. I don't know what else you can do.