Just off Freedom caught in storm October 9th

[Mango884942]

Not true, the port never closed.....Captain error........sorry

[Tonka's Skipper]

We were also on that voyage, and I have to tell you, in our 11th cruise, this was the worst weather we ran into.

 

But...

 

I have read many reports that have been greatly exaggerated, including one from CruiseRadio that tells of the ship lying on it's side.

 

Bullhockey!

 

That was just irresponsible reporting.

 

Here is my input on the events on Oct 9th.

 

I noticed as we left Port Canaveral that the seas were maybe 6 to 8ft. I am a boater myself (and have a 32ft boat), and I have found that most folks over-estimate wave height by 100%.

 

Our balcony had a view of the starboard side, and we noticed that the pilot boat was having a really difficult time in retrieving the pilot. I remarked to my wife that I bet the pilot was pretty scared getting off the ship.

 

So it was no surprise to me that they closed the port.

 

In fact, I heard two conflicting stories about whether or not the port was officially closed. But since only foreign flagged ships (i.e. cruise ships) require a pilot, it's my best guess that the reason Disney and Carnival stayed behind is because they could not get a pilot to go out (and have to transfer to a small boat) rather than the conditions at the time.

 

We had early seating and since there were only two of us at the table, we finished our dinner at about 7pm. Up to that point, the ship wasn't really rolling that significantly. We left to catch the sail-away show in the theater when the ship took a pretty good list to port.

 

At that point everything in the Royal Promenade from vendor carts, to dishes, to booze came crashing down. And a few older folks fell.

 

About the time we made it to the port side stairwell near the theater, the message came for everyone to go to their stateroom if they could make it. Afterall it is safer in the staterooms than in public areas of the ship with stuff sliding all over the place. The elevators went into automatic shutdown, so some people had a hard time making it to their room, and they stayed put.

 

We made it to our room, and when I turned on the TV, to the bridge-cam channel, I saw 6kts ship speed and 101kts apparent wind speed, which minus the 6kt ship speed, was still at 90+ mph hurricane force.

 

The captain basically slowed down and put the ship into the waves and wind, which is what the proper course of action would be at least in a small boat, and probably the same in a large ship.

 

That was about it. The ship maybe listed 12deg, but I never heard for sure, although that would have been the max list in my estimation.

 

And I never saw anything much more than 12ft waves, although it was at night and hard to see.

 

At the C&A get together a couple days later, the captain said that when we left the forecast was for 30kt winds, which is nothing for a ship this size - heck, I have been out in 30kt winds in my 32ft boat - and while it scared the heck out of me on my boat, a ship should not have any issues.

 

The captain then said that the wind kept raising until it reached the high winds we experienced. At that point, he put the ship into the wind. Then - the wind changed direction 180 degrees! So he had to make a turn back into the wind, which is probably where that 12 deg list came from, as a fast turn would put the ship into a list I would think.

 

But even though I was a bit concerned at that point, I have to commend the captain and crew for having the skill to get us out of the situation.

 

Sure, there was a lot of second guessing about whether or not we should have left, but no one can predict the fickle weather, and truth is, it was not that bad when we left. I don't know for sure, but my guess is it may have been the unwillingness of the pilots to escort the other cruise ships.

 

I am not saying this would not have been a prudent decision as it was pretty dangerous for them to attempt a transfer from ship-to-boat. But I am saying that this may have been the reason for the port closing.

 

One thing is for sure, if we did not encounter the rough weather, the other cruise ships would have been criticized for not going out.

 

While it might have been a horrific experience for first time cruisers, we took the storm in stride, and booked another cruise while we were on board. I doubt we will ever experience a storm such as this again.

 

If you didn't get seasick on this cruise, you probably never will.

 

 

 

 

 

The reqiurements for a Pilot has to do with size, not flag. US flag vessels take a pilot as well as foreign. You are correct and as reported the pilots closed the port to all vessels reqiuring a pilot. The pilots make that call not the Harbor Master.

 

Seems a big debate on whether the USCG or the harbor Master closed the total port.

 

 

AKK

[DavidJrandRichard]

I will be contacting the harbor/port today to ask some questions...hopefully my media credentials will help me get some answers.

 

As far as the Captain goes..he is a captain, not a meteorologist. He can only go by the forecast he is given. If the forecast is wrong, his decision can be wrong. However, I would love to see what the ship's radar was showing.

[Aquahound]

The reqiurements for a Pilot has to do with size' date=' not flag. US flag vessels take a pilot as well as foreign. You are correct and as reported the pilots closed the port to all vessels reqiuring a pilot. The pilots make that call not the Harbor Master.

 

Seems a big debate on whether the USCG or the harbor Master closed the total port.

[/quote']

 

 

The Captain of the port is the local USCG Commander. He is the authority in closing the port. But port closure does not prevent ships from leaving, only entering. In fact, in most cases, a closure makes the ships leave. I do not think this port was closed.

[EVALUATOR]

I will be contacting the harbor/port today to ask some questions...hopefully my media credentials will help me get some answers.

 

As far as the Captain goes..he is a captain, not a meteorologist. He can only go by the forecast he is given. If the forecast is wrong, his decision can be wrong. However, I would love to see what the ship's radar was showing.

 

I was wondering about a few things.

 

One of the arguments was the Carnival and Disney stayed because the port was closed after the Freedom left. But normally all three ships leave within minutes of each other. When the pilot leaves the Freedom, the other ships are usually already on their way out to sea with another pilot. They don't wait until the pilot returns from the first ship to take the next one out.

 

It would seem like Disney and Carnival choose to stay long before the rocking on the Freedom, which was reportedly two hours after the Freedom left the port. When and what did Disney and Carnival know that Freedom might not have?

 

As for the storm being a surprise, as early as Friday forecasts were predicting possible formation of tropical or sub tropical storms in the area. Weather radar earlier on Sunday even showed the rotation of the storm off the east coast of Florida.

[annedar]

 

Hope this link works. Direct from the Captain. Also, some good video from same poster of the dining room during the early part of the storm.

[Tonka's Skipper]

The Captain of the port is the local USCG Commander. He is the authority in closing the port. But port closure does not prevent ships from leaving, only entering. In fact, in most cases, a closure makes the ships leave. I do not think this port was closed.

 

 

 

FYI

 

The Captian of the port can close the port to ALL moving traffic in or out as reasons and conditions may reqiure...........ALL TRAFFIC.

 

If the pilots decide its unsafe for whatever reasons and refuse to move vessels...the port is effectively closed to the movement of all vessels reqiureing pilots. The USCG cannot move these vessels with thier own personel........they do not have the licenses.

 

The local port authority can also close the port.....but in practice they all work together to make the best safe decisions.....

 

AKK

[LeeBe]

I need to know...what happened after "go get my red shirt.'' :D

 

Thanks for posting.

[Aquahound]

FYI

 

The Captian of the port can close the port to ALL moving traffic in or out as reasons and conditions may reqiure...........ALL TRAFFIC.

 

If the pilots decide its unsafe for whatever reasons and refuse to move vessels...the port is effectively closed to the movement of all vessels reqiureing pilots. The USCG cannot move these vessels with thier own personel........they do not have the licenses.

 

The local port authority can also close the port.....but in practice they all work together to make the best safe decisions.....

 

In most cases, if the port is still open and the pilots refuse, a ship's Captain can still get underway.

 

But it would be very rare for pilots to take it upon themselves to say a port is "closed." They are not the final authority in that decision. The pilots i have worked with would work in any weather as long as the port is open.

[SpeedGeek]

I was wondering about a few things.

 

One of the arguments was the Carnival and Disney stayed because the port was closed after the Freedom left. But normally all three ships leave within minutes of each other. When the pilot leaves the Freedom, the other ships are usually already on their way out to sea with another pilot. They don't wait until the pilot returns from the first ship to take the next one out.

 

It would seem like Disney and Carnival choose to stay long before the rocking on the Freedom, which was reportedly two hours after the Freedom left the port. When and what did Disney and Carnival know that Freedom might not have?

 

As for the storm being a surprise, as early as Friday forecasts were predicting possible formation of tropical or sub tropical storms in the area. Weather radar earlier on Sunday even showed the rotation of the storm off the east coast of Florida.

 

There was a break in the weather when we left, but the wind was still blowing pretty hard out of the east. My best guess is the crosswinds involved with those ships leaving with just the wind conditions at PC. The Disney would have the best chance since it would only have to make a small turn to get lined up with the wind (Unlike Carnival which would have had to turn around), but also remember the passenger demographic on a Disney cruise and how bad things could get if it didn't work out.

[EVALUATOR]

There was a break in the weather when we left, but the wind was still blowing pretty hard out of the east. My best guess is the crosswinds involved with those ships leaving with just the wind conditions at PC. The Disney would have the best chance since it would only have to make a small turn to get lined up with the wind (Unlike Carnival which would have had to turn around), but also remember the passenger demographic on a Disney cruise and how bad things could get if it didn't work out.

 

When and where did they hold the lifeboat muster?

[Aquahound]

Sorry if I missed this in all the FOS posts over the last week. I don't know Port Canaveral. How is FOS situated when moored? I only ask because if the winds would have hit the ship broadside on the side against the pier, that could have made for a very bad scenario had they stayed.

[BillB48]

She normally docks stern first with the bow head practically due east. It only takes a slight dog leg to get her into the main channel, it's practically straight out. Take a look at portfever.com and click on Port Canaveral, the Monarch is there today in the same position as the Freedom

[SpeedGeek]

When and where did they hold the lifeboat muster?

 

Muster was held just like normal right before departure at the designated muster stations.

[BillB48]

Screenshot from today.....

 

[katie0355]

My roommate and I were also on this sailing. I first want to say that I would like to commend the Captain AND the crew for the great job/hard work they did that first night.

 

It was definitely a frightening/exciting experience. My friend and I were in Olive or Twist when everything started crashing to the floor. The bartender lost most of his glasses as well as liquor/wine bottles. After the second major crash, but before we were ordered to our staterooms, he asked to us to go to decks 3 or 4 where it would be much safer. On our way to deck 4, the announcement was made to proceed to our staterooms. We were on deck 2 in the middle of this ship (2417). We did make some videos of a Red Bull can rolling back and forth across our floor as there was not much else to do: we were hungry (late seating), and thirsty (bars were closed). When were allowed to leave our staterooms we went to the dining room to eat supper. However, I was appalled by the amount of people complaining about the buffet dinner (pizza and sandwiches) and service. These poor crew members not only experienced what we had just experienced, but worked their tails off to clean up as much as they could so the dining room and other areas could reopen. Throughout all of this they kept a smile on their face and were very polite and apologetic.

 

Anyway, it was definitely scary at first, but it was vacation and we were determined to have a good time no matter what! We laughed through most of it and enjoyed the great story we would have to tell all our friends about!

[Tonka's Skipper]

In most cases, if the port is still open and the pilots refuse, a ship's Captain can still get underway.

 

But it would be very rare for pilots to take it upon themselves to say a port is "closed." They are not the final authority in that decision. The pilots i have worked with would work in any weather as long as the port is open.

 

 

 

Pilots dont have to say its closed, they just refuse to move any vessels reqiuring pilots. They are a assocaiation, inpowered by the state and have l the reqiured licenses and pilotage and training. They are not a employee of the port or USGC...

 

NO captian with a mind will move his ship without a reqiured pilot unless the vessel is in extreme danger.......He would be answering questions, possible have his license in danger for weeks after...especailly if he has a problem. Except for the St Lawerence seaway and the Panama canal the Master is always in Comand and responsible for the safety of his vessel and crew and cargo(in this case passingers).

 

 

The pilots I have worked with would never sail a vessel in unsafe weather unless it was more dangerous to stay at the dock. All the pilot association would have to do is call the USCG and tell them they cannot safely transit the port due to weather or whatever and will not move any vessels. The USGC would then close the port to traffic/vessel reqiuring pilots..end of story.

 

As I said befroe all parties.the Pilots......USCG and harbor authorities work together here.its not a competion.

 

AKK

[LeeBe]

 

It was definitely a frightening/exciting experience. My friend and I were in Olive or Twist when everything started crashing to the floor. The bartender lost most of his glasses as well as liquor/wine bottles.......

 

Being up in the OorT, I can't imagine a worse place....:eek:... you must have felt the brunt of all the motion!

[mohavemommy]

 

Hope this link works. Direct from the Captain. Also, some good video from same poster of the dining room during the early part of the storm.

 

Great video. :D

[SpeedGeek]

My roommate and I were also on this sailing. I first want to say that I would like to commend the Captain AND the crew for the great job/hard work they did that first night.

 

It was definitely a frightening/exciting experience. My friend and I were in Olive or Twist when everything started crashing to the floor. The bartender lost most of his glasses as well as liquor/wine bottles. After the second major crash, but before we were ordered to our staterooms, he asked to us to go to decks 3 or 4 where it would be much safer. On our way to deck 4, the announcement was made to proceed to our staterooms. We were on deck 2 in the middle of this ship (2417). We did make some videos of a Red Bull can rolling back and forth across our floor as there was not much else to do: we were hungry (late seating), and thirsty (bars were closed). When were allowed to leave our staterooms we went to the dining room to eat supper. However, I was appalled by the amount of people complaining about the buffet dinner (pizza and sandwiches) and service. These poor crew members not only experienced what we had just experienced, but worked their tails off to clean up as much as they could so the dining room and other areas could reopen. Throughout all of this they kept a smile on their face and were very polite and apologetic.

 

Anyway, it was definitely scary at first, but it was vacation and we were determined to have a good time no matter what! We laughed through most of it and enjoyed the great story we would have to tell all our friends about!

 

Agreed on all counts! And like others said, had we not gone out, those same people complaining about the buffet would probably have complained about not leaving.

 

Did you enjoy the lightning show just before things went south? :D

 

As for being thirsty, I raided the mini fridge in our cabin. OBC paid for it though, so no big deal.

[BecciBoo]

We laughed through most of it and enjoyed the great story we would have to tell all our friends about!

 

Katie: I hope you see this post, because it's your attitude that is commendable. You rock. Congratulations, you are a real sailor!:D

[SpeedGeek]

I need to know...what happened after "go get my red shirt.'' :D

 

Thanks for posting.

 

The rest of the story goes like this:

 

The first mate asks "Why?" and the captain responds "I don't want my men to see me bleed". First mate says "It's an honor to sail with you sir" and starts to head off when another crewmember calls out "There's a whole armada out there!" and the Captain turns back to the first mate and says "Forget the red shirt, get my brown trousers!"

 

He then mentioned his own brown trousers were in the wash :D

[PH8]

The rest of the story goes like this:

 

The first mate asks "Why?" and the captain responds "I don't want my men to see me bleed". First mate says "It's an honor to sail with you sir" and starts to head off when another crewmember calls out "There's a whole armada out there!" and the Captain turns back to the first mate and says "Forget the red shirt, get my brown trousers!"

 

He then mentioned his own brown trousers were in the wash :D

Oh that is too funny.............

 

Loved seeing Capt Rob talking about the storm too...........I wish he was going to still be on this Sunday....:(

[BecciBoo]

So Capt. Rob is a stand up comic at heart!:D Teehee!

[PH8]

When were allowed to leave our staterooms we went to the dining room to eat supper. However, I was appalled by the amount of people complaining about the buffet dinner (pizza and sandwiches) and service.

 

How awful,but why am I not surprised?:mad: