Concordia News: Please Post Here

[CTH]

Has anyone ever heard what the weight of the sponsons are? Could the additional weight lead to the ship compressing down on itself?

According to http://www.theparbucklingproject.com , the total weight of all 30 sponsons is approx. 11,500 tonnes. This figure could be dated by now. One could therefore assume there is a slight contribution to the compression, however small?

 

Oh, divide that figure by 2, only half the sponsons will be attached pre-parbuckle!!

Edited July 17, 2013 by CTH

[chengkp75]

Thank you.

Hhmmm. The M/V, which still has a caisson on it, has moved out beyond the M30 now.

 

Micki;

 

Hopefully not insulting your knowledge of all things nautical, but the M/V Lone should be referred to as the "Lone", not the "M/V". M/V stands for motor vessel, and is applied to any ship or boat propelled by diesel or gasoline engines, as opposed to "SS" which stands for steam ship.

 

Yes, I was watching for a while, and they seem to be having some difficulty moving the caisson, or rigging it for lifting. They may need to take some time to secure the caisson lifted in place this morning before placing the next.

[chengkp75]

According to http://www.theparbucklingproject.com , the total weight of all 30 sponsons is approx. 11,500 tonnes. This figure could be dated by now. One could therefore assume there is a slight contribution to the compression, however small?

 

Oh, divide that figure by 2, only half the sponsons will be attached pre-parbuckle!!

 

Okay, so Concordia has a deadweight of 8900mt (actual weight of the ship), and a displacement of 51,000mt, as opposed to the registered tonnage which is a measure of volume. We can assume that the water inside the hull right now is 100-125% (maybe more, can't tell without computer modelling) full of water, so the ship at present weighs about 60,000mt. Therefore, the 11 portside caissons that will be installed pre-parbuckling, weighing say 4000mt will only add about 7% to the weight of the ship.

[SomeBeach]

Micki;

 

Hopefully not insulting your knowledge of all things nautical, but the M/V Lone should be referred to as the "Lone", not the "M/V". M/V stands for motor vessel, and is applied to any ship or boat propelled by diesel or gasoline engines, as opposed to "SS" which stands for steam ship.

 

Yes, I was watching for a while, and they seem to be having some difficulty moving the caisson, or rigging it for lifting. They may need to take some time to secure the caisson lifted in place this morning before placing the next.

 

Can't insult my knowledge on this because I don't have any on these type of vessels. :p Now, you have to admit you knew what I was referring to. :D ;)

I went out for a bit. Just looked in at Giglio and see the Lone is still out there but can't tell if the caisson is still on it. Might just be cuz of where the crane was when I looked.

[chengkp75]

Can't insult my knowledge on this because I don't have any on these type of vessels. :p Now, you have to admit you knew what I was referring to. :D ;)

I went out for a bit. Just looked in at Giglio and see the Lone is still out there but can't tell if the caisson is still on it. Might just be cuz of where the crane was when I looked.

 

Hard to tell, even before sunset whether there was a caisson there, or the hatch covers open. The fact that Micoperi M30 has not moved back alongside sort of tells me there is a snag somewhere, as she should be back alongside to support welding.

[Bearded Engineer]

Okay, so Concordia has a deadweight of 8900mt (actual weight of the ship), and a displacement of 51,000mt, as opposed to the registered tonnage which is a measure of volume. We can assume that the water inside the hull right now is 100-125% (maybe more, can't tell without computer modelling) full of water, so the ship at present weighs about 60,000mt. Therefore, the 11 portside caissons that will be installed pre-parbuckling, weighing say 4000mt will only add about 7% to the weight of the ship.

 

Actually, deadweight is a measure of what the ship is carrying or able to carry. From Wikipedia:

 

Deadweight tonnage (also known as deadweight abbreviated to DWT, D.W.T., d.w.t., or dwt) is a measure of how much weight a ship is carrying or can safely carry.[1][2][3] It is the sum of the weights of cargo, fuel, fresh water, ballast water, provisions, passengers, and crew.[1] The term is often used to specify a ship's maximum permissible deadweight, the DWT when the ship is fully loaded so that its Plimsoll line is at the point of submersion, although it may also denote the actual DWT of a ship not loaded to capacity.

Deadweight tonnage was historically expressed in long tons but is now usually given internationally in tonnes.[4] Deadweight tonnage is not a measure of the ship's displacement and should not be confused with gross tonnage or net tonnage (or their more archaic forms gross register tonnage or net register tonnage).

 

The actual displacement is what the ship and all its contents actually weighs when it is floating. (anything that floats is displacing its own weight in water) The reported displacement is usually the displacement the ship would have when fully loaded.

 

The water inside the Concordia now that it is sunk does not contribute to the weight of the ship pressing on the sea floor as long as the water levels inside and outside the ship are the same.

[chengkp75]

Actually, deadweight is a measure of what the ship is carrying or able to carry. From Wikipedia:

 

Deadweight tonnage (also known as deadweight abbreviated to DWT, D.W.T., d.w.t., or dwt) is a measure of how much weight a ship is carrying or can safely carry.[1][2][3] It is the sum of the weights of cargo, fuel, fresh water, ballast water, provisions, passengers, and crew.[1] The term is often used to specify a ship's maximum permissible deadweight, the DWT when the ship is fully loaded so that its Plimsoll line is at the point of submersion, although it may also denote the actual DWT of a ship not loaded to capacity.

Deadweight tonnage was historically expressed in long tons but is now usually given internationally in tonnes.[4] Deadweight tonnage is not a measure of the ship's displacement and should not be confused with gross tonnage or net tonnage (or their more archaic forms gross register tonnage or net register tonnage).

 

The actual displacement is what the ship and all its contents actually weighs when it is floating. (anything that floats is displacing its own weight in water) The reported displacement is usually the displacement the ship would have when fully loaded.

 

The water inside the Concordia now that it is sunk does not contribute to the weight of the ship pressing on the sea floor as long as the water levels inside and outside the ship are the same.

 

I stand corrected. I never did like that Naval Architecture class.

[CTH]

MV Lone now positioned a little distance behind Micoperi 30, her decks & cranes illuminated in the dark, so can just see the outline of a smaller caisson on deck. I imagine that by the time I click on in the morn, the caisson will be dropping onto C.C..

 

Cheng, thanks for the estimated weights / loads etc regarding the caissons & compression, unfortunately I've never quite managed to get my head round the difference between actual dead weight, displacement, registered tonnage etc. Will hopefully learn more as this salvage operation continues!

[cruiserfanfromct]

Schettino's plea bid denied:

 

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/17/19523230-costa-concordia-cruise-wreck-captain-has-second-plea-bid-rejected

[SomeBeach]

Schettino's plea bid denied:

 

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/17/19523230-costa-concordia-cruise-wreck-captain-has-second-plea-bid-rejected

 

His lawyers expected the agreement to be denied. Well duh, he went from 3 yrs, 4 months in his first attempt to 3 yrs, 5 months. Tells me he wasn't serious about making a plea agreement. Now he'll get that chance he wanted from the start. He can take the stand and plead his case, especially the miracle of getting Concordia to its current position at Giglio.

Did you read any of the comments after the article. I think this is my favorite.

"Since this story broke out, last January, this guy has been telling one lie after another. According to news report, he was showing off to get notice, and impress some woman he met on the ship, and he was warned reportedly that if he didn't change his course his ship was going to hit an iceberg, or something and he argued with the person on the other side saying he was going to move in the direction in which he was moving, and then the accident happened. So you know what, he should pay for his stupidity, and arrogance."

[Uniall]

Schettino's plea bid denied:

 

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/07/17/19523230-costa-concordia-cruise-wreck-captain-has-second-plea-bid-rejected

 

 

Like I said, I'm ready willing and able. :p

 

 

 

His lawyers expected the agreement to be denied. Well duh, he went from 3 yrs, 4 months in his first attempt to 3 yrs, 5 months. Tells me he wasn't serious about making a plea agreement. Now he'll get that chance he wanted from the start. He can take the stand and plead his case, especially the miracle of getting Concordia to its current position at Giglio.

 

Did you read any of the comments after the article. I think this is my favorite.

 

"Since this story broke out, last January, this guy has been telling one lie after another. According to news report, he was showing off to get notice, and impress some woman he met on the ship, and he was warned reportedly that if he didn't change his course his ship was going to hit an iceberg, or something and he argued with the person on the other side saying he was going to move in the direction in which he was moving, and then the accident happened. So you know what, he should pay for his stupidity, and arrogance."

 

The author of the reply comment reminds me of me .. LOL ;)

[Mike.Minh]

Micki;

but the M/V Lone should be referred to as the "Lone", not the "M/V". M/V stands for motor vessel, and is applied to any ship or boat propelled by diesel or gasoline engines, as opposed to "SS" which stands for steam ship.

 

Or indeed as opposed to HMS - Her Majesty's Ship :)

 

I saw other abbreviations used by the media for these ships, maybe even within the weekly progress reports.

HLS or H/L or HLV for Heavy Lifting Ship/Vessel is at least factually correct.

 

But I think italian sources have also used SAL, they must have read the huge lettering on the side of MV Lone or MV Svenja. SAL stands for Schifffahrtskontor Altes Land, literally "Shipping Company [of the] Old Country".

"Altes Land" is a geographic region close to Hamburg, Germany, where this shipping company was headquartered up to March 2013. Their new HQ is now in Hamburg. SAL is just a part of the company name, all of their 16 ships carry that logo of course.

 

In other news: MV Lone now back in position to continue with offloading her parcels.

[chengkp75]

Like I said, I'm ready willing and able. :p

 

 

 

 

 

The author of the reply comment reminds me of me .. LOL ;)

 

Uni, shame on you! You are an officer of the court. The noose is my job:D

 

What really saddens me about the comments is how little correct information is out there, and how the Italian investigation report has not been disseminated by the media. Things like: "if he had grounded the ship perpendicular to the shore, it would not have rolled over" (no, it would have sunk in a few hundred feet of water), and "no one was watching navigational instruments?" (does no one read the part where several officers, obviously the deck officers, received short prison sentences?). And of course there is the "the Captain is responsible for the actions of his crew, that's tradition", no actually that is law. It is a sad state how ignorant Americans can be and still post opinions on places like facebook, etc. I could make it a full time job just to post to social media corrections like this, but no one would read, care, or believe me anyway, so why bother?

[chengkp75]

Or indeed as opposed to HMS - Her Majesty's Ship :)

 

I saw other abbreviations used by the media for these ships, maybe even within the weekly progress reports.

HLS or H/L or HLV for Heavy Lifting Ship/Vessel is at least factually correct.

 

But I think italian sources have also used SAL, they must have read the huge lettering on the side of MV Lone or MV Svenja. SAL stands for Schifffahrtskontor Altes Land, literally "Shipping Company [of the] Old Country".

"Altes Land" is a geographic region close to Hamburg, Germany, where this shipping company was headquartered up to March 2013. Their new HQ is now in Hamburg. SAL is just a part of the company name, all of their 16 ships carry that logo of course.

 

In other news: MV Lone now back in position to continue with offloading her parcels.

 

Ah, Mike, I wasn't getting into naval vessels, but since you bring up HMS, there is also the Italian navy's AMB (Attsa My Boat):D

 

It looks like Lone is in position to lift caisson #P13 in place. I was wondering, as the view last evening looked like it was a long, short unit.

Edited July 18, 2013 by chengkp75

[Tonka's Skipper]

We have hashed this out many times, and so far the evidence still shows the Captain had the biggest piece of this pie, but some other officers, Costa office managers and I believe Carnival Inc. staff(due to improper operational, safety and training issues) has a piece of this!

 

I do find the lawyer saying he was thrown from the vessel, and could not get back onboard laughable if it wasn't so sad.

 

AKK

[chengkp75]

We have hashed this out many times' date=' and so far the evidence still shows the Captain had the biggest piece of this pie, but some other officers, Costa office managers and I believe Carnival Inc. staff(due to improper operational, safety and training issues) has a piece of this!

 

I do find the lawyer saying he was thrown from the vessel, and could not get back onboard laughable if it wasn't so sad.

 

AKK[/quote']

 

Totally agree Skipper. I am wondering why the helmsman was indicted, and took a plea deal. While the report shows that he did not always understand the Captain's orders, there were other conversations going on in the wheelhouse, and Schettino was using English, which is not the official working language of Costa. Never heard of a rating being held accountable, especially when there were 3-4 deck officers on the bridge at the time.

[SomeBeach]

the Italian navy's AMB (Attsa My Boat):D

 

Now that's funny. Thanks for the chuckle. :p

 

It looks like Lone is in position to lift caisson #P13 in place. I was wondering, as the view last evening looked like it was a long, short unit.

 

From the pix on the parbuckling site, P8 was set yesterday. The location of Lone does look to be for P13 today.

[chengkp75]

Lone has moved back off the wreck, so it appears there is some problem with lifting this caisson (balance?) or getting in the proper position. Interesting.

[SomeBeach]

Totally agree Skipper. I am wondering why the helmsman was indicted, and took a plea deal. While the report shows that he did not always understand the Captain's orders, there were other conversations going on in the wheelhouse, and Schettino was using English, which is not the official working language of Costa. Never heard of a rating being held accountable, especially when there were 3-4 deck officers on the bridge at the time.

 

I think this is the reason the others took the plea deal:

"A judge is expected to rule on Saturday on those defendants' requests for lenient sentences, no longer than about two years. In Italy, sentences are often suspended in the cases of first time offenders that result in punishments of a just a few years or less."

 

Possibly they all felt that if they went to trial they would risk a longer sentence and no chance of it being suspended.

[Uniall]

LOL Amen to that brother, amen to that. But, in Italy our biggest concern should be a setence that does not allow imprisonment with privately funded special priviliges (wine, fancy meals, luxury minimum security jail, etc) and regular conjugal visits. Or, even worse, some of of the prison term to be served at home.

 

I think this is the reason the others took the plea deal:

 

"A judge is expected to rule on Saturday on those defendants' requests for lenient sentences, no longer than about two years. In Italy, sentences are often suspended in the cases of first time offenders that result in punishments of a just a few years or less."

 

Possibly they all felt that if they went to trial they would risk a longer sentence and no chance of it being suspended.

 

SB

I warned of this possibility in a post last week.

 

John

[Uniall]

Uni, shame on you! You are an officer of the court. The noose is my job:D

 

What really saddens me about the comments is how little correct information is out there, and how the Italian investigation report has not been disseminated by the media. Things like: "if he had grounded the ship perpendicular to the shore, it would not have rolled over" (no, it would have sunk in a few hundred feet of water), and "no one was watching navigational instruments?" (does no one read the part where several officers, obviously the deck officers, received short prison sentences?). And of course there is the "the Captain is responsible for the actions of his crew, that's tradition", no actually that is law. It is a sad state how ignorant Americans can be and still post opinions on places like facebook, etc. I could make it a full time job just to post to social media corrections like this, but no one would read, care, or believe me anyway, so why bother?

 

I'm so sorry I that I tried to steal your job as hangman ! :o

 

Could I at least help you build the scaffold ? :p

[chengkp75]

I'm so sorry I that I tried to steal your job as hangman ! :o

 

Could I at least help you build the scaffold ? :p

 

Sure. Bring a nail gun, and we might get some target practice in on Schettino:)

[Uniall]

Sure. Bring a nail gun, and we might get some target practice in on Schettino:)

 

 

OK, I've got my Special "Schettino Nail Gun" :eek:

 

 

Lock and Load. :p

[Tonka's Skipper]

Totally agree Skipper. I am wondering why the helmsman was indicted, and took a plea deal. While the report shows that he did not always understand the Captain's orders, there were other conversations going on in the wheelhouse, and Schettino was using English, which is not the official working language of Costa. Never heard of a rating being held accountable, especially when there were 3-4 deck officers on the bridge at the time.

 

 

Just my points Chief!:D

 

I last I heard the helmsman went back to Indonesia and disappeared!

[littlesteelo]

I stand corrected. I never did like that Naval Architecture class.

 

The weight of the ship itself would be the lightship tonnage, and the displacement is the lightship + deadweight.

 

I quite enjoy my Naval Architecture module :)