Concordia News: Please Post Here

[chengkp75]

The weight of the ship itself would be the lightship tonnage, and the displacement is the lightship + deadweight.

 

I quite enjoy my Naval Architecture module :)

 

Thanks. And I tend to disagree that the weight of the water inside the ship has no effect. If the ship was just a hollow box with one side resting on the rock, then yes, I don't believe the water would have an effect on compressing the ship. However, since the ship is laying at about a 50* angle, the weight of the water is pressing down on decks, internal bulkheads, and equipment bolted into the ship. This is what is compressing (along with the weight of the ship (lightship!) pressing down in an angle the ship's structure is not designed for.

[Ken711]

Lone has moved back off the wreck, so it appears there is some problem with lifting this caisson (balance?) or getting in the proper position. Interesting.

 

 

Lone is back positioning itself close to the CC again.

[lightman1984]

Short time listener, first time poster here. I've been following the CC recovery effort for a long time and just recently found this board. Thanks to those of you who are "in-the-know" about the project and posting updates as they happen, clarifying questions, and all that. Much better than waiting for headlines or the unpredictable weekly update. Looking forward to following along.

 

Seems as though Lone had another setback today and moved out beyond M30 without delivering her payload? Or did something happen that I missed between my webcam peeks today...

[SomeBeach]

Just my points Chief!:D

 

I last I heard the helmsman went back to Indonesia and disappeared!

 

TS' date=' he had disappeared, at least according to reports. Then again he may have just felt like hiding from the media.[/color']

It really was in his best interest to be available for the hearing/court. As it stands now, he may at least have a chance at the suspended sentence.

[chengkp75]

TS, he had disappeared, at least according to reports. Then again he may have just felt like hiding from the media.

It really was in his best interest to be available for the hearing/court. As it stands now, he may at least have a chance at the suspended sentence.

 

Actually, if he is indeed Indonesian or Phillipino, his best bet is to heigh himself home, and then contact his manning agency to get him a job on a ship that never returns to Italy. This is sooo common with international crew that commit crimes (or in this case are accused of a crime) in other countries.

[chengkp75]

[quote name='lightman1984']Short time listener, first time poster here. I've been following the CC recovery effort for a long time and just recently found this board. Thanks to those of you who are "in-the-know" about the project and posting updates as they happen, clarifying questions, and all that. Much better than waiting for headlines or the unpredictable weekly update. Looking forward to following along.

Seems as though Lone had another setback today and moved out beyond M30 without delivering her payload? Or did something happen that I missed between my webcam peeks today...[/QUOTE]

Poor resolution at dusk, but it looks like she still has the caisson onboard.

[Ken711]

[quote name='chengkp75']Poor resolution at dusk, but it looks like she still has the caisson onboard.[/QUOTE]

Looks to be on the deck as well.

[SomeBeach]

[quote name='chengkp75']Actually, if he is indeed Indonesian or Phillipino, his best bet is to heigh himself home, and then contact his manning agency to get him a job on a ship that never returns to Italy. This is sooo common with international crew that commit crimes (or in this case are accused of a crime) in other countries.[/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]He is Indonesian. In this case I don't buy that an agency would assign him to another ship. Most crimes, and yes I understand some of them can be serious, don't result in the loss of 32 lives. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]If he did originally try to hide, he did the right thing coming back to face this.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]John (Uni,) by agreeing to a plea agreement, are they admitting guilt or just taking responsibility for their part in this tragedy? Or is that a fine line of distinction that can't be defined?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[chengkp75]

[quote name='SomeBeach'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]He is Indonesian. In this case I don't buy that an agency would assign him to another ship. Most crimes, and yes I understand some of them can be serious, don't result in the loss of 32 lives. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]If he did originally try to hide, he did the right thing coming back to face this.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]John (Uni,) by agreeing to a plea agreement, are they admitting guilt or just taking responsibility for their part in this tragedy? Or is that a fine line of distinction that can't be defined?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]

Oh, the manning agencies will ship him again in a heartbeat.

The thing is, that I don't see that he has any responsibility for anything in this matter. Based on the fact that he is an unlicensed rating, and that he was acting under orders from a licensed officer, and that based on the Italian report, his actions, while minor in errors, did nothing to bring the ship any closer to the rock than he was ordered to. Schettino gave him great leeway in giving helm orders in heading degrees rather than rudder angles, and this is a long held maritime tradition. If the Captain wants the ship turned quickly, he gives rudder angle orders, otherwise if he gives a heading, it is up to the helmsman to bring the ship to the new heading and "steady up" on that heading, with possibly reverse rudder angles to stop the swing.

[SomeBeach]

[quote name='lightman1984']Short time listener, first time poster here. I've been following the CC recovery effort for a long time and just recently found this board. Thanks to those of you who are "in-the-know" about the project and posting updates as they happen, clarifying questions, and all that. Much better than waiting for headlines or the unpredictable weekly update. Looking forward to following along.

Seems as though Lone had another setback today and moved out beyond M30 without delivering her payload? Or did something happen that I missed between my webcam peeks today...[/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Welcome to the boards.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]We are fortunate to have posters that can provide more details than what the mainstream does. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Bearded Engineer]

[quote name='chengkp75']Thanks. And I tend to disagree that the weight of the water inside the ship has no effect. If the ship was just a hollow box with one side resting on the rock, then yes, I don't believe the water would have an effect on compressing the ship. However, since the ship is laying at about a 50* angle, the weight of the water is pressing down on decks, internal bulkheads, and equipment bolted into the ship. This is what is compressing (along with the weight of the ship (lightship!) pressing down in an angle the ship's structure is not designed for.[/quote]

Not only does it not cause additional weight to bear on the rocks, the fact that the ship is partially submerged actually decreases the weight on the rocks. Everything weighs less in water. If you hang a rock from a scale in the air and record the weight and then submerge the rock in water still hanging from the scale you will see that the reading of the scale is less. If you could do the same thing with the Concordia you would see the same result. Remember that the water is a fluid and wherever it is pressing down on a surface, it is pressing up with the same force on the other side. This is because the water inside and outside of the ship are connected and the pressure at any depth is the same inside or out. It all cancels out and you are left with a small bouyant force caused by the small amount of water displaced by the sunken ship.

[Uniall]

[quote name='SomeBeach'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]He is Indonesian. In this case I don't buy that an agency would assign him to another ship. Most crimes, and yes I understand some of them can be serious, don't result in the loss of 32 lives. [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]If he did originally try to hide, he did the right thing coming back to face this.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]John (Uni,) by agreeing to a plea agreement, are they admitting guilt or just taking responsibility for their part in this tragedy? Or is that a fine line of distinction that can't be defined?[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]

They change their plea to "guilty" of whichever crime(s) is (are) part of the agreement. That wouod result in a reduced sentence but the time served could be anthything from "suspended" (as long as they stay out of trouble, to home confinement, to country club style prison, etc.

[chengkp75]

[quote name='Bearded Engineer']Not only does it not cause additional weight to bear on the rocks, the fact that the ship is partially submerged actually decreases the weight on the rocks. Everything weighs less in water. If you hang a rock from a scale in the air and record the weight and then submerge the rock in water still hanging from the scale you will see that the reading of the scale is less. If you could do the same thing with the Concordia you would see the same result. Remember that the water is a fluid and wherever it is pressing down on a surface, it is pressing up with the same force on the other side. This is because the water inside and outside of the ship are connected and the pressure at any depth is the same inside or out. It all cancels out and you are left with a small bouyant force caused by the small amount of water displaced by the sunken ship.[/QUOTE]

Don't really want to get into a physics argument here, but I agree that a rock SUSPENDED in water will weigh marginally less, but if that rock is placed on the bottom of the water container, it will gain its weight back, as there will be no buoyant force on the bottom. The Concordia is not suspended in water.

[SomeBeach]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Bearded, sorry I didn't formally welcome you to the boards yesterday. I think I was busy trying to digest your post. ;) I'm probably the dullest bulb on this thread but I find it fascinating as I learn more about what's involved.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Anyway, welcome. Look forward to your opinions and discussions of Concordia.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[SomeBeach]

[quote name='Uniall']They change their plea to "guilty" of whichever crime(s) is (are) part of the agreement. That wouod result in a reduced sentence but the time served could be anthything from "suspended" (as long as they stay out of trouble, to home confinement, to country club style prison, etc.[/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Thank you for the clarification.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff] [/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[Bearded Engineer]

[quote name='chengkp75']Don't really want to get into a physics argument here, but I agree that a rock SUSPENDED in water will weigh marginally less, but [COLOR=darkred]if that rock is placed on the bottom of the water container, it will gain its weight back, as there will be no buoyant force on the bottom.[/COLOR] The Concordia is not suspended in water.[/quote]

I don't know where you aquired this interesting bit of knowledge but it was definitely not in a physics class because it is not true. Any body submerged in a fluid experiances a bouyant force equal to the weight of the fluid displaced whether it is hanging by a string or sitting on the bottom. If you were to stand on a very accurate scale in air, and then stand on the same scale in a vacuum, you would weigh more in the vacuum. This increase in weight would be a very small amount because the air you are displacing does not weigh very much but the principle is the same. If you don't believe me, ask Archimedes.

[Bearded Engineer]

[quote name='SomeBeach'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Bearded, sorry I didn't formally welcome you to the boards yesterday. I think I was busy trying to digest your post. ;) I'm probably the dullest bulb on this thread but I find it fascinating as I learn more about what's involved.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]Anyway, welcome. Look forward to your opinions and discussions of Concordia.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]

Thanks for the welcome. I have followed this thread for some time until I finally felt the need to dispell some disinformation.

[Tonka's Skipper]

All a interesting discussion in physics theory.

However the bottom line (no pun intended) here is the hull was not structurally designed to be laying on her side at a 50 degree angle, with the turn of the bilge and the lower starboard side grinding on the rocky bottom with each weather front that comes though and the weight of the hull bearing down.

The compression is happening and not making the salvage job any easier.

This weakening of the hull will effect how she handles the up righting. Will she hold form and be upright or will she compression further with the present structural damage and/or be leaning.

Would it be better to seal the remaining of the port side hole and try and pump some water out to give her some more buoyancy? The damage in the compressed areas will likely have opened the hull making that more of a problem.

It should be interesting to follow any operational changes that show up.
AKK Edited July 18, 2013 by Tonka's Skipper

[Uniall]

[quote name='SomeBeach'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Thank you for the clarification.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/quote]

You are most welcome.

[cruiserfanfromct]

Judge has adjourned Schettino's trial until Sept. 23 for summer break.

Schettino today asked the judge to order tests on the cruise liner's wreckage to determine why electrical and other systems failed after the vessel struck the reef. :confused::eek:

The outcome of the request won't be known until at least September.

Read more:

[url]http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/costa-concordia-captain-asks-judge-for-tests-on-shipwreck-1.1373162#ixzz2ZRYfEDrO[/url]

[Ken711]

[QUOTE=Tonka's Skipper;39189040]All a interesting discussion in physics theory.

However the bottom line (no pun intended) here is the hull was not structurally designed to be laying on her side at a 50 degree angle, with the turn of the bilge and the lower starboard side grinding on the rocky bottom with each weather front that comes though and the weight of the hull bearing down.

The compression is happening and not making the salvage job any easier.

This weakening of the hull will effect how she handles the up righting. Will she hold form and be upright or will she compression further with the present structural damage and/or be leaning.

Would it be better to seal the remaining of the port side hole and try and pump some water out to give her some more buoyancy? The damage in the compressed areas will likely have opened the hull making that more of a problem.

It should be interesting to follow any operational changes that show up.
AKK[/QUOTE]

I wonder if the submerged starboard proves to be too damaged or weak to attached caissons after the parbuckling, what the contingency plan would be.

[SomeBeach]

[quote name='cruiserfanfromct']Judge has adjourned Schettino's trial until Sept. 23 for summer break.

Schettino today asked the judge to order tests on the cruise liner's wreckage to determine [B][COLOR=red]why electrical and other systems failed[/COLOR][/B] after the vessel struck the reef. :confused::eek:

The outcome of the request won't be known until at least September.

Read more:

[URL]http://www.ctvnews.ca/world/costa-concordia-captain-asks-judge-for-tests-on-shipwreck-1.1373162#ixzz2ZRYfEDrO[/URL][/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Silly me. I thought it had something to do with the gash he was responsible for putting in the ship. :rolleyes:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]I thought that was covered in the investigation and noted in the final report.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[cruiserfanfromct]

[quote name='SomeBeach'][FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Silly me. I thought it had something to do with the gash he was responsible for putting in the ship. :rolleyes:[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=#0000ff]I thought that was covered in the investigation and noted in the final report.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/QUOTE]
He could argue he thought he was playing bumper cars and would bounce right off Giglio with all mechanicals intact. :D

[SomeBeach]

[quote name='cruiserfanfromct']He could argue he thought he was playing [COLOR=red]bumper[/COLOR] cars and would bounce right off Giglio with all mechanicals intact. :D[/quote]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]I think he wanted to play "bumper" too. ;):p[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]

[SomeBeach]

[FONT=Comic Sans MS][SIZE=3][COLOR=blue]Friday morning, 6:30 in Italy and Lone is close to Concordia. Maybe they will get the caisson set this time around.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]