Prices??

[xpcdoojk]

Do you know if there are groups sailing on your concrete example where 1/2 the space of the ship is booked for a single group? Your belief that RCI has artificially set the price too high for you implies that everyone but you are too stupid to realize that Princess, Oceania, Carnival, HAL, NCL, MSC, Radisson, Costa, Cunard, Silverseas, Seabourne, Marco Polo, etc. exist. That doesn't strike me as a rational way to look at the cruise market. The rest of the passengers on RCI are not smart enough to realize they are getting taken to the cleaners is what is being implied. RCI has built some brand loyalty. I know for a concrete fact that some people would not cruise certain other lines for free. I know that some people would not cruise RCI if it was free(at least that is what I have read in these forums over the years). Those people are not looking out for their own best interests in my opinion, but the pricing of cruises takes this and other factors into consideration. There is no doubt that there are times when a particular ship, date or season will be higher on RCI than its direct competition, but there is, also, no doubt that there are times when RCI can be a relative bargain, despite the way they price their cruises. So there is no concrete answer as to which line is cheapest, best or right for a particular person. The rest of this arguement is a debate without any rigid truths.

 

If you don't like the price RCI charges, don't book the cruise. If you like the price some other cruiseline charges, great book the cruise and don't look back. I think so much of this is self-justifying discussion to prove my decision is better than yours. A new form of the childhood arguement of my brother can beat up your big brother....

 

JMHO and YMMV

 

jc

[stretch]

Please see the highlighted text above...

 

Seems to be a lot of problems with reading comprehension today.

 

 

It's always nice to be able to see someone who is so totally and completely full of themselves..............:D

Stretch

[Kaylas Mom]

xjpdoojk,

 

WHOA! I never said or meant any of that! I just wanted to say that I had been blindly sailing away without looking around. When I looked around, I was surprised by what I found. I thought the point of these boards was to share experiences and tips. -- that's what I was doing.

 

Let's try to be kind and supportive of each other for a change!

 

Cathy

[xpcdoojk]

I am glad you have found a way to save money. I wish you a pleasureable cruise, on which ever ship you sail.

 

Friendly and supportive is what I am all about.:D

 

jc

[yj2cute]

I too love Royal Caribbean the best so far. But, the difference in prices this year/next year as compared to last year are more than just a little commision. The fares themselves have gone up, and there is no longer any discounting as well. This, as listed in my own personal experiences, makes for a substantial boost in fares. Is it still a great cruise experience? Absolutely Is it still worth the money? I'm quite sure it is. But, I am just choosing to get two cruises for one right now.

 

We all understand how supply & demand works. We also understand how it works with our own money as well.

 

RCCL prices may have gone up from last year, but then so has every other line. The price of cruising in general has gone up. I booked the Conquest for last August for the inside at $682, oceanview $832 and balcony $982. It was a group. This year's sailings for the same time frame are approx $200 pp higher.

 

So yes, the fares have gone up, but is it really fair to be angry with them because they want the TA's to take home the entire commission and encourage fairness between smaller agencies vs. big, internet, high volume agencies? I personally think the no discounting policy should be adopted by all the cruiselines. Most TA's work very hard in a business that won't make you rich anyway. So I think it's fair that they receive compensation for their work. I also like the idea of the same price at all agencies, then price will not be the main factor when folks are shopping for a cruise. Service will be just as important, if not more so.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I'm as thrifty as anyone. I love a deal and get positively euphoric when I can save $$ by using a coupon, getting a promotion or something. I am definitely not "rif raff". However, to be fair, that term was not used by NYDee. I'm not a spring breaker and I think I make excellent company on a cruise. However, price is very important to me. I will not spend more than I have to and given the same scenario as you, I would choose 2 cruises over 1 RCCL as well. I just think we must be fair in our comparisons.

[Spelling Queen]

Do you know if there are groups sailing on your concrete example where 1/2 the space of the ship is booked for a single group? Your belief that RCI has artificially set the price too high for you implies that everyone but you are too stupid to realize that Princess, Oceania, Carnival, HAL, NCL, MSC, Radisson, Costa, Cunard, Silverseas, Seabourne, Marco Polo, etc. exist. That doesn't strike me as a rational way to look at the cruise market. The rest of the passengers on RCI are not smart enough to realize they are getting taken to the cleaners is what is being implied. RCI has built some brand loyalty. I know for a concrete fact that some people would not cruise certain other lines for free. I know that some people would not cruise RCI if it was free(at least that is what I have read in these forums over the years). Those people are not looking out for their own best interests in my opinion, but the pricing of cruises takes this and other factors into consideration. There is no doubt that there are times when a particular ship, date or season will be higher on RCI than its direct competition, but there is, also, no doubt that there are times when RCI can be a relative bargain, despite the way they price their cruises. So there is no concrete answer as to which line is cheapest, best or right for a particular person. The rest of this arguement is a debate without any rigid truths.

 

If you don't like the price RCI charges, don't book the cruise. If you like the price some other cruiseline charges, great book the cruise and don't look back. I think so much of this is self-justifying discussion to prove my decision is better than yours. A new form of the childhood arguement of my brother can beat up your big brother....

 

JMHO and YMMV

 

jc

 

 

Count me as someone who will sail on any line that is free. Well, as long as certain people (who cannot converse or make a point in words that contain less than 10 letters) are not sailing with me! ;) :eek: :D

[yj2cute]

 

Finally, I just wanted to point out an interesting parallel to Disney -- the park not the cruiseline. Since forever, DisneyWorld offered guests staying in a Disney hotel the option of entering the parks one hour early to enjoy the rides before the hordes arrive. Now, I have been to Disney almost every year since it opened and ALWAYS stayed on site. But in 2002, Disney went bonkers and ditched this "early entry" policy. There was no longer an advantage to paying extra to stay ons-site IMHO. I had expensive reservations at the time to stay on-site and I dropped them like a hot potato. I got five nights off-site for the price of one on-site. I wrote to Disney to tell them exactly WHY I was abandoning them after 35 years of loyalty. And LOTS of Disney loyalists did the exact same thing, with the result that 6 months later, Disney reintroduced "early entry."

 

I feel similarly about this discounting thing. I do believe it will affect sales and I do believe RCCI will either return to discounting or find another way to make silly people like me think we are getting bargains. So, I am not worried. I will be back to RCCI, but now I am taking a detour....

 

Kaylasmom,

I am totally in agreement with your Disney example and would have done the same thing if my only reason for staying onsite was for the early entry. However, some people stay there for other reasons as well. Like the Disney theme, free transportation, closeness to the parks and in some's opinion, superior properties. However, none of that would make me pay 5X as much. I would have taken found a nice property off site and used the savings to rent a car. I applaud your action as well as the others and you elicited a change! That's awesome IMO.

 

However what I think you're forgetting is that RCCL was never the discounter. Your TA was. RCCL set the price and your TA was forced to kick you back some of her pay to be able to compete with the other, bigger agencies who could afford to do that, to get the sale. RCCL does still offer discounts in the form of Senior promotions and resident promotions, on board credit, Crown & Anchor coupons. However, probably not on the most popular sailings.

[xpcdoojk]

Count me as someone who will sail on any line that is free. Well, as long as certain people (who cannot converse or make a point in words that contain less than 10 letters) are not sailing with me!

 

Yes, dear speller, some people have low standards, I think that was bicker's point! :D :D ;) Just providing a layman's translation! :D

 

jc

 

PS you are a nice addition to this forum, welcome, and I hope to see a lot of you around here!

[Spelling Queen]

Yes, dear speller, some people have low standards, I think that was bicker's point! :D :D ;) Just providing a layman's translation! :D

 

jc

 

PS you are a nice addition to this forum, welcome, and I hope to see a lot of you around here!

 

I beg to differ. I think my standards are quite high. ;) I won't take just any ole vacation for free. I did refer to cruising. And I did say that I had my standards as far as cruise mates goes.

 

Plus you are making the assumption that this bickering sole has a point.

 

BTW, thank you for the welcome.

[Frequentfloater]

Okay, first to xpcdoojk,

 

I have no idea if any large groups are booked on that particular Radiance cruise or not. But, then again...I didn't check just one cruise. I checked prices across the board for this year and next before settling on the April shoulder season. Don't assume that others are unprepared or make snap decisions. I have no beef with RCl, I love them.

 

Also, I nor anyone else here has implied that Royal Caribbean has artificially raised prices on anything. There prices are higher, but it's that coupled with the new "no discounting" policy that is being discussed here. I have no clue who you are responsding to when you say that someone has implied stupidity here, because it certainly wasn't in any of my posts. This is a discussion of our own experiences and opinions, and therefore "rational" by default. I haven't read a single post in this thread, by anyone, that tries to imply that RCL customers are being taken advantage of either. I think you are reading your own words into that as well.

 

Finally, stop trying to be the bearer of peace, by making comments like "I think so much of this is self-justifying discussion to prove my decision is better than yours. A new form of the childhood arguement of my brother can beat up your big brother....", while stirring up the pot yourself. Your comments don't seem to be an honest attempt to stop what you see as fighting. You are just joining in yourself by assuming what I have or haven't looked at, in terms of cruise fares, and accusing us of saying things that have never been said here. I don't need a brother to take care of myself, thank you.

 

Next to yj2cute,

 

To say that RCL was never a discounter, just our travel agents were is pretty silly. If they weren't the ones in charge of allowing discounts, how could they suddenly take them away? The answer is, of course, that travel agents, like any salesperson, sold the cruise for more than the actual bottom line. The differences in price were up to each agency or agent, to determine there on commission. There was a ceiling to it (brochure price) and a bottom end as well. RCL leveled the pricing field, which eliminated the opportunity to save money, using agencies that sold on volume.

 

The current trend within agencies, is to offer and onboard credit or free insurance, which in my case was $200. This may vary depending on the price of the fare. That $200, plus C & A coupons. still didn't bring the fare anywhere near what the other lines were charging. So, for me...it was a 2 for 1 choice. If that doesn't work for anyone else....fine. I have no intention of trying to change anyone's mind, nor do I care what they do. I was simply sharing information that directly related to the topic at hand. Some people here feel the same about it as I did. I imagine that several cruiselines have had increases in fares, due to fuel costs, etc... But RCL is the only one that, at present, has the no disounting policy in place as well.

 

I also don't recall anyone here being angry at RCL. In fact, every post I have read on this issue, has stated that they very much love RCL. They/I just see other options at the moment as well. My comparison was as fair as you can possibly get. I gave my actual costs, and actual examples...not some phony comparison here. I don't play games, nor do I have time to.

 

I want to agree with Kayla'sMom here, by saying that we are expressing our opinions and experiences here, only so that others may find it helpful to them. I have no intention, nor concern to change anyone else's mind on this, or any other matter. This is not a fight, it is a discussion. However, when my words are dissected and criticized without merit, I feel the need to respond. I think any normal person would. If that seems like fighting to some poeple, just watch them respond to this post, and my point will be made.

[xpcdoojk]

OMG.... :rolleyes: :D

 

Speller, it is soul not sole.... my feet never bicker, but some souls are inclined in that direction....

 

I am still trying to figure out how pointing out to everyone that RCIs prices are too high isn't self-justifying your decision to cruise with another line, but whatever works for you.:D

 

jc

[yj2cute]

Okay, first to xpcdoojk,

 

Next to yj2cute,

 

To say that RCL was never a discounter, just our travel agents were is pretty silly. If they weren't the ones in charge of allowing discounts, how could they suddenly take them away? The answer is, of course, that travel agents, like any salesperson, sold the cruise for more than the actual bottom line. The differences in price were up to each agency or agent, to determine there on commission. There was a ceiling to it (brochure price) and a bottom end as well. RCL leveled the pricing field, which eliminated the opportunity to save money, using agencies that sold on volume.

 

The current trend within agencies, is to offer and onboard credit or free insurance, which in my case was $200. This may vary depending on the price of the fare. That $200, plus C & A coupons. still didn't bring the fare anywhere near what the other lines were charging. So, for me...it was a 2 for 1 choice. If that doesn't work for anyone else....fine. I have no intention of trying to change anyone's mind, nor do I care what they do. I was simply sharing information that directly related to the topic at hand. Some people here feel the same about it as I did. I imagine that several cruiselines have had increases in fares, due to fuel costs, etc... But RCL is the only one that, at present, has the no disounting policy in place as well.

 

I also don't recall anyone here being angry at RCL. In fact, every post I have read on this issue, has stated that they very much love RCL. They/I just see other options at the moment as well. My comparison was as fair as you can possibly get. I gave my actual costs, and actual examples...not some phony comparison here. I don't play games, nor do I have time to.

 

I want to agree with Kayla'sMom here, by saying that we are expressing our opinions and experiences here, only so that others may find it helpful to them. I have no intention, nor concern to change anyone else's mind on this, or any other matter. This is not a fight, it is a discussion. However, when my words are dissected and criticized without merit, I feel the need to respond. I think any normal person would. If that seems like fighting to some poeple, just watch them respond to this post, and my point will be made.

 

Frequent floater,

It's unfortunate that you think my comments are silly, however, again, I must disagree. RCL was NOT the discounter. They have a selling price and they pay their distributors, the TA's, a commission for every sale. Obviously, they do control many aspects of that sale, including allowing them to further discount the price by kicking back a portion of their commission. However, the TA was the one who lost the revenue on that sale, not RCCL. They got the total that was due to them. Hence, the discounter being the TA, not RCCL. So yes, their new policy eliminated your ability to save money at the TA's expense.

 

You say no one is angry with RCCL in regards to this new policy? Yes, it was stated that many here love RCCL, I having made that statment myself. But it seems that the whole theme to this thread is to complain about that new policy. If it's not anger, then it must be somehting. Disappointment, resentment? While I love RCCL, I agree that looking at all options is wise. I'm not disagreeing with any of that. All I'm trying to point out is that the money that you're no longer saving was the TA's in the first place, not RCCL's. They are not making any more money off of the non discounting policy. They're still paying out the same amount of $$ in commissions. However, now, the TA actually gets to keep it.

 

I agree, this is not a fight. Just a discussion by interested parties. Thanks to everyone for keeping it at a civilized level.

[Kaylas Mom]

If your best friend was going into the Piggly Wiggly Supermarket to buy a six pack of soda, and you just came out of the Super Duper supermarket next door where they were having a 50% off soda pop sale, you would tell you're friend, wouldn't you?

 

 

Would doing so be "self-justifying????" No, it would be generous and kind.

 

Would paying twice as much be clever and classy becauseYOU think the Piggly Wiggly attracts a better sort of people? Maybe, but I would let her make that choice for herself.

[stretch]

This thread is going about as well as the "Smokiness on Ships" thread yesterday................ keep up the good work! :D

Stretch

[Spelling Queen]

OMG....

 

Speller, it is soul not sole.... my feet never bicker, but some souls are inclined in that direction....

 

I am still trying to figure out how pointing out to everyone that RCIs prices are too high isn't self-justifying your decision to cruise with another line, but whatever works for you.:D

 

jc

 

I plead innocent to pointing out anything about anyone's prices. However as to the bickering sole issue, if the cold fish phrase serves 2 meanings, who am I to pass it up? :o :p ;)

[BADBUOY]

Doing my homework in preparing for our next cruise we also have found RCL to be generally more expensive then competing lines. I'm not sure of the reason for this however if all things appear to be equal the 'bottom line' may be the deciding factor for us in determining who we sail with next.

 

BD

[NYDee]

Do the cruise lines make most of their profit from the price of the cabin? I have heard that much of the profit comes from the "foo foo" drinks, wine, beer, other items sold on board, and shore excursions. Perhaps in RCI's experience people who are willing to spend more for a cruise also spend more on these items. One of the couples I met that took the cruise because it was the cheapest also bragged about not spending anymore. They had their drinks of preference in their cabin that they brought with them or purchased on shore. They didn't take any shore excursions and didn't buy anything else. We don't usually take the ship's excursions either. However, there is no way I am going to lug bottles of wine, cans of coke, etc., in my luggage. We end up with a large bill at the end of the cruise, but we have included that when we planned the expense of the cruise.

 

It would also seem that if the TAs do not have to discount their commission, thus make more money on RCI bookings, they would want to sell more RCI cruises.

[brn2crz]

I am sure there are deals to be found on any lines,at various times of the years,

Embarkation point etc.

RCI is mainly a Caribbean based cruise line.

At this time there are 26 options on RCI from 4-12 days in the Caribbean.

On Princess there are 7 one of which are repos,one is RT from SJ, and 3 are 10 days.This leaves 1

Eastern,and 1 Western to choose from..

I would suspect,if this is all they are offering,they would need to keep their prices somewhat lower.Because there are way to many options,on much more intersting ships to choose from.

Pricing on Balconies on Princess in Oct.These are the range in Oct week to week,same catagory,lowest price balcony

On the one way sailing NYC-San Juan $749 (remember,you still have to get back to the US)

Western on the Star 839-1399

CP Eastern 799-1379

SJ-SJ Southern sailing 1434.

My sailing Oct 2 on Mariner.E1 (which is lowest price balcony also)

I paid less than any of these lowest prices :rolleyes: And I have a coupon still to redeem.

Princess is only sailing out of Fort Lauderdale..How many ports can you do a Caribbean on RCI from?

Princess is an awesome Cruise Line.And I loved my sailing on the Grand...

But to broadly state that their pricing is better,is not accurate.

OOMV.

[xpcdoojk]

Doing my homework in preparing for our next cruise we also have found RCL to be generally more expensive then competing lines. I'm not sure of the reason for this however if all things appear to be equal the 'bottom line' may be the deciding factor for us in determining who we sail with next.

 

BD

 

Remember Buddy, you get what you pay for sometimes and sometimes you just pay more or less. Can't argue with your decision making process, at least not this time and so far. ;) :D

 

jc

[BADBUOY]

Remember Buddy, you get what you pay for sometimes and sometimes you just pay more or less. Can't argue with your decision making process, at least not this time and so far. ;) :D

 

jc

 

If RCL throws in a free greasy JR burger perhaps that we sway me over! :p

[xpcdoojk]

Do the cruise lines make most of their profit from the price of the cabin? I have heard that much of the profit comes from the "foo foo" drinks, wine, beer, other items sold on board, and shore excursions. Perhaps in RCI's experience people who are willing to spend more for a cruise also spend more on these items. One of the couples I met that took the cruise because it was the cheapest also bragged about not spending anymore. They had their drinks of preference in their cabin that they brought with them or purchased on shore. They didn't take any shore excursions and didn't buy anything else. We don't usually take the ship's excursions either. However, there is no way I am going to lug bottles of wine, cans of coke, etc., in my luggage. We end up with a large bill at the end of the cruise, but we have included that when we planned the expense of the cruise.

 

It would also seem that if the TAs do not have to discount their commission, thus make more money on RCI bookings, they would want to sell more RCI cruises.

 

It doesn't really matter where the cruiseline makes most of their profit. Costs for a 7 day cruise are pretty much fixed, IE they have to pay for the ship, just like we pay mortgage or rent. They have to pay the crew. They don't lay people off this cruise, and then hire them back on the next. The fuel to sail is pretty much the same. So the goal for profit maximization is to increase revenues from all methods. They would like to sell all cabins at full brochure price, but the market conditions won't allow it. So they need to sell all of the cabins at whatever revenue that brings in. The next way to increase revenue is from selling excursions, bingo, pictures, spa services, casino, ben and jerry's, johnny rockets, pre and post stays and all of these things are not pure profit there is a cost associated with each to provide those services, but clearly they contribute mightily to the bottom line. I would guess in general the largest share of revenue comes from selling the cabins, but if they can increase the other revenues, well it is all good. :D

 

Your second point, is truly the most telling. How unbelieveable is the attitude of some TAs I have seen on these threads that they tell their customers that they won't book anymore RCI or X cruises. Obviously, what they are really telling us is that they don't provide as much service as other TAs, and they know the only reason why people book with the internet "we sell cheap but don't ask me for a brochure companies" is because they are cheap. Very insightful. :)

 

jc

[Frequentfloater]

Frequent floater,

It's unfortunate that you think my comments are silly, however, again, I must disagree. RCL was NOT the discounter. They have a selling price and they pay their distributors, the TA's, a commission for every sale. Obviously, they do control many aspects of that sale, including allowing them to further discount the price by kicking back a portion of their commission. However, the TA was the one who lost the revenue on that sale, not RCCL. They got the total that was due to them. Hence, the discounter being the TA, not RCCL. So yes, their new policy eliminated your ability to save money at the TA's expense.

 

You say no one is angry with RCCL in regards to this new policy? Yes, it was stated that many here love RCCL, I having made that statment myself. But it seems that the whole theme to this thread is to complain about that new policy. If it's not anger, then it must be somehting. Disappointment, resentment? While I love RCCL, I agree that looking at all options is wise. I'm not disagreeing with any of that. All I'm trying to point out is that the money that you're no longer saving was the TA's in the first place, not RCCL's. They are not making any more money off of the non discounting policy. They're still paying out the same amount of $$ in commissions. However, now, the TA actually gets to keep it.

 

I agree, this is not a fight. Just a discussion by interested parties. Thanks to everyone for keeping it at a civilized level.

 

 

If Royal Caribbean puts an end to the competitive pricing in the industry, by setting one price point that all must sell at, then they have just ended discounted fares. Slice it up any way you like it, but they are in charge, and they ended the discounting.

 

This also opened them up as an equal for booking your cruise. If everyone sells at the same price, then why go elsewhere to book? Now, if RC makes $999.00 per person on a fare they used to make $599.00 on, because the agencies sold the cruise for less, and then got paid their commision on it, how can you say RC is not making more money then before? Now, I don't blame them for trying to 1. Stabilize the market pricing and 2. Make more money by gaining direct bookings. But, you can't say they aren't the ones who made it all happen.

 

My wife and I almost opened a cruise only travel agency last year, and investigated it very thoroughly in the process. It was hearing about this new "no discounting policy" that made me think about holding off until we saw how it was going to play out. Sure, the agencies make more per fare now, because their commission percentage is based on the price of the fare. But, they are also losing bookings to RC directly, because price is no longer a reason for customers to shop with them. 12% of a bigger pie sold is more pie. But, less pies sold still means less money coming in as well.

 

How does it balance out for the agencies? Only they can say how it has affected them, but many have been hurt by it. Plus, higher prices will always affect sales. If the product is great (which it is), it may not show as much at first. But, the bubble will burst as people shop around and find that all the other cruiselines are cheaper, because they have not instituted a pricing plan the way RC has.

 

Think of buying your car directly from GM. You would pay full list price for it, instead of however much below invoice you can find it for at GM dealers. But, if GM said...no price reductions...all dealers will sell at full list price, people would have no incentive to buy from a dealer. They could go directly to GM and buy it, avoiding the middleman. At the same time (and this is the underlying point of the entire thread), it wouldn't take long for many people to look around and see that Ford or Honda was still letting their dealers sell below list price. Hence....they would have to go back to the way everyone does it at some point in time. It could last a few years, or be back to normal by January. Only time will tell, I guess.

 

Also, I would say that disapointment is a good word to describe our feelings on the matter. Certainly not anger or bitterness. I know the system will change, and prices will once again be more competitive with other brands. I also know that I will be cruising with them and others for as long as I am able.

[xpcdoojk]

If RCL throws in a free greasy JR burger perhaps that we sway me over! :p

 

If we are ever on a Voyager class ship together I will give you my C&A coupons!

 

jc

[BADBUOY]

If we are ever on a Voyager class ship together I will give you my C&A coupons!

 

jc

 

jc

 

Come on over to Carnival and I'll share my T&A coupons with you.......;)

 

B.

[celtic selke]

jc

 

Come on over to Carnival and I'll share my T&A coupons with you.......;)

 

B.

 

 

What's T&A?

 

celtic