Park West Gallery: experience and strategy

[MiniJeffrey]

Aaaaaah, there's that magic word, Giclee.

 

I did not know what that was. It sounded so chic and professional. Imagine my surprise when I found out what I bought was printed on an Epson printer. Lesson learned.

 

That is not "art." The frame is nice, though, and I do like the picture. But I was very upset when I unwrapped it at home to find that what I thought was glass was just plastic wrap over it!

 

I left the plastic wrap on it. Don't know if that is going to "ruin" it in the long run but it now hangs as a souvenir of my naivite

 

Most of this stuff are just pictures...

 

Art would be the original, or professional renderings, not computer prints...

 

Yeah I don't know what to think about giclées. They are considared art as they are a new technique of printing, but for me it doesn't feel like art. Once the image has been digitalised it's way too easy to make the print, the inkjet does all the work. Even a limited edition giclée doesn't feel right to me. It's nothing like a serigraph, litograph or etching where a lot of work and effort is needed to finish the print (even though new machinery has made it a lot easier to create). Secondly: what happens after the creation of a limited edition giclée? I find it hard to believe that the digital image is destroyed? So you have a limited edition but it jus't doesn't feel right. However a giclée is considered art...

[Laszlo]

Giclées aren't art. Its a copy.............plain and simple. They might be signed by the artist but they are far from the original. We can argue this all day long but when you can make a thousand or more copies of something I don't consider that art.........thats just me

 

But once the screens are produced, you can make as many copies as you want until the screen wears out. Still just a way for the Peter Max's and Thomas Kincades of the world to make a fortune.

 

Correct, you can a million if you want. Most artist make runs of around 250, my father will do a run of maybe a 100. It depends on the amount of colors and time it takes to make. Some of his prints are 36 colors

Edited April 3, 2013 by Laszlo

[tel2]

Giclées aren't art. Its a copy.............plain and simple. They might be signed by the artist but they are far from the original. We can argue this all day long but when you can make a thousand or more copies of something I don't consider that art.........thats just me

 

 

 

Correct, you can a million if you want. Most artist make runs of around 250, my father will do a run of maybe a 100. It depends on the amount of colors and time it takes to make. Some of his prints are 36 colors

 

Hello -- are you or your father by any chance the artist in Philly that has done the amazing serigraphs w/ watercolor of the Philly waterfront and various citiscapes? Someone gave me notecards and they were gorgeous. I was about to order some for myself, and I saw the serigraphs w watercolor and have been drooling over one of them for the last few months. I am saving up. Anyway, never connected the name and I have seen you post many times on this forum.

 

Terry

[Laszlo]

Hello -- are you or your father by any chance the artist in Philly that has done the amazing serigraphs w/ watercolor of the Philly waterfront and various citiscapes? Someone gave me notecards and they were gorgeous. I was about to order some for myself, and I saw the serigraphs w watercolor and have been drooling over one of them for the last few months. I am saving up. Anyway, never connected the name and I have seen you post many times on this forum.

 

Terry

 

Yes, and thanks..... that is my fathers work, same name. I'm probable not suppose to do this but his web site is laszlobagi dot com. To tell you the truth I'm not sure what if any note cards he still has. He downsides his studio in Philadelphia 4-5 years ago and is now working out of his home.

He wouldn't be caught dead on a cruise LOL

Edited April 3, 2013 by Laszlo

[tel2]

Apologies to everyone for the diversion/hikjacking. I just got excited when I conencted the names.

 

Lazlo - Your father's work is amazing. I was an art major but not sufficiently talented to make a living at it, so went to law school instead. Always so envious of people with enough talent to malee a living at it.

 

Terry

[Laszlo]

LOL

Believe me your better off as a lawyer. I've been a graphic artist for a large printing company for years and their are many days I wish I would have stayed in teaching HS. The market for the last 4-5 years selling art is horrible

[MiniJeffrey]

this is kinda funny, my first Krasnyansky arrived (the unframed one), let's inspect it tomorrow, now sleepy sleepy^^.

[DEREKJ1980]

**** MUST READ ***

 

Hello, I'm a former auctioneer from PWG.

 

-First of all, the cruise lines take anywhere from 30-38% gross sales - shipping. A higher volume ship will take a lower cut....lower volume such as Holland America would take around 38%.

 

-Commissions to auctioneers is 15% flat on art and framing sold (not shipping)

 

Anything you buy from PWG is worth pennies on the dollar. Their Rembrandt etchings from the Millennium suite are worth nothing (plates are owned by PWG, funny they don't mention that part....lol). The Millennium suit is around the 7th-9th? state from the original rembrandt etchings, therefore they have been carved out 7 more times on the copper plate by different artists that RUIN the work. Look at a lifetime impression vs a Millennium impression, they look NOTHING alike, hence its not a Rembrandt.

 

Muhammad Ali institute, has publicly said ALL signed works that PWG sell with the Ali signature are fake! What does that mean about all the other sports memorabilia?

 

Peter Max works are not signed by Peter Max, PWG has its minions doing all those works.... hell we used to sell 10-15 peter max's every week x 70 ships (plus or minus a few) Take an average of 8 Peter Max's works sold, times by 65 (conservative numbers) = 520 works a week. DO YOU REALLY THINK PETER MAX IS DOING THE WORK? Laughs.....

 

All the DALI's were proven fake signatures on real works by the Dali archives, and by Dali experts Hunter and Robert Descarnes? someone can double check those names for me... this is all from memory.

 

PWG price is the most over inflated price you will ever hear or see, its all marketing and mind manipulation. Make the buyer think its worth $1000, then turn around and sell it for $400, "wow! what a deal I'm getting"

 

 

Hey, if you like the art.... go ahead, buy it.... but don't think for ONE MINUIT you are getting some sort of a deal. Or better yet, try and sell it yourself afterwords..... you won't be able to get much of anything. I could write a book on PWG and their bs. That fineartregistry group found out a lot about PWG, and paid the price for trying to expose the truth.

[dwjoe]

Thanks for the straight dope.

[TravelDiva88]

Aaaaaah, there's that magic word, Giclee.

 

I did not know what that was. It sounded so chic and professional. Imagine my surprise when I found out what I bought was printed on an Epson printer. Lesson learned.

 

That is not "art." The frame is nice, though, and I do like the picture. But I was very upset when I unwrapped it at home to find that what I thought was glass was just plastic wrap over it!

 

I left the plastic wrap on it. Don't know if that is going to "ruin" it in the long run but it now hangs as a souvenir of my naivite

 

Most of this stuff are just pictures...

 

Art would be the original, or professional renderings, not computer prints...

 

To each their own. I have a few artists whom I love, and at this point in my career, owning one of their originals well... is not in the financial picture.

 

Though I do treasure my giclees from them. Each one is not only signed, but I purchased during artist signing events so they have personalized messages written on the back of each mat.

 

Until the day when I have $7500 to purchase an original of one of them, my $85 giclees will have to do

[MiniJeffrey]

**** MUST READ ***

 

Hello, I'm a former auctioneer from PWG.

 

-First of all, the cruise lines take anywhere from 30-38% gross sales - shipping. A higher volume ship will take a lower cut....lower volume such as Holland America would take around 38%.

 

-Commissions to auctioneers is 15% flat on art and framing sold (not shipping)

 

Anything you buy from PWG is worth pennies on the dollar. Their Rembrandt etchings from the Millennium suite are worth nothing (plates are owned by PWG, funny they don't mention that part....lol). The Millennium suit is around the 7th-9th? state from the original rembrandt etchings, therefore they have been carved out 7 more times on the copper plate by different artists that RUIN the work. Look at a lifetime impression vs a Millennium impression, they look NOTHING alike, hence its not a Rembrandt.

 

Muhammad Ali institute, has publicly said ALL signed works that PWG sell with the Ali signature are fake! What does that mean about all the other sports memorabilia?

 

Peter Max works are not signed by Peter Max, PWG has its minions doing all those works.... hell we used to sell 10-15 peter max's every week x 70 ships (plus or minus a few) Take an average of 8 Peter Max's works sold, times by 65 (conservative numbers) = 520 works a week. DO YOU REALLY THINK PETER MAX IS DOING THE WORK? Laughs.....

 

All the DALI's were proven fake signatures on real works by the Dali archives, and by Dali experts Hunter and Robert Descarnes? someone can double check those names for me... this is all from memory.

 

PWG price is the most over inflated price you will ever hear or see, its all marketing and mind manipulation. Make the buyer think its worth $1000, then turn around and sell it for $400, "wow! what a deal I'm getting"

 

 

Hey, if you like the art.... go ahead, buy it.... but don't think for ONE MINUIT you are getting some sort of a deal. Or better yet, try and sell it yourself afterwords..... you won't be able to get much of anything. I could write a book on PWG and their bs. That fineartregistry group found out a lot about PWG, and paid the price for trying to expose the truth.

 

Thats kinda shocking to hear. Knowing that almost 50% of the actual price doesn't go to Park West is just 'wow'. Think about it: they try to give you the impression you are making a good deal giving you art that drops as low or even below 50%. From that acutal price, 50% goes to auctioneer and cruise company, so what remains for PWG: less than 25% of the initial value of the work. And don't forget that PWG has to make a profit so in that 25% is still some margin for profit.

 

So do the math when they say you can buy a $1000 valued piece for only $500. Do you really think the piece is worth $500?

 

About the faked signatures: no idea, I'm not going to discuss that matter. The only thing I would like to know is: what happened with all the stuff in court about the forgery of signatures. Who won? That seems important to me to know.

[rvsullivan]

If you google it, you will find the settlements. Most complaints went in favor of the customer. The corporate lawsuits were lost by Park West.

One of the articles pointed out that Park West made $300 million per year off just the cruise ships. Crazy!!!

[Laszlo]

One of the articles pointed out that Park West made $300 million per year off just the cruise ships. Crazy!!!

 

Their are suckers born every minute:D

[dwjoe]

If you google it, you will find the settlements. Most complaints went in favor of the customer. The corporate lawsuits were lost by Park West.

One of the articles pointed out that Park West made $300 million per year off just the cruise ships. Crazy!!!

To clarify, Park West's annual revenue (not profit) is approx. $300M, with half of that coming from cruise ships.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Park_West_Gallery

[Steamboat Holly]

My Dh and I went to the Art Auction on our first cruise this May. We bought a framed picture that we carried off the ship. We really liked it, but it probably isn't worth very much. We only paid $130 for it. It is an Alexander Chen, and the picture is "Yosemite Half Dome". We don't have the money to buy expensive art right now, but we are happy with this souvenir of our first cruise.

 

http://sales.parkwestgallery.com/art/Ship/Alexander-Chen/cArtist/25/

[Steamboat Holly]

Their are suckers born every minute:D

 

I really liked your Dad's work. I thought Poplars3 was very pretty. I made me smile!

[MiniJeffrey]

My Dh and I went to the Art Auction on our first cruise this May. We bought a framed picture that we carried off the ship. We really liked it, but it probably isn't worth very much. We only paid $130 for it. It is an Alexander Chen, and the picture is "Yosemite Half Dome". We don't have the money to buy expensive art right now, but we are happy with this souvenir of our first cruise.

 

http://sales.parkwestgallery.com/art/Ship/Alexander-Chen/cArtist/25/

 

Thats the most important, being happy with what you bought no matter what you paid. Just don't expect you can sell the work when you arrive at home and make money.

[Laszlo]

I really liked your Dad's work. I thought Poplars3 was very pretty. I made me smile!

 

Thanks, he's 76 and still plugging away:)

Edited July 23, 2013 by Laszlo

[MiniJeffrey]

Someone should post the information from the first post and the confession from the ex-auctioneer on their facebook.

[xenagurl]

Very good write up. I love cruising, but when Park West goes the way of the dinosaur (if it ever does) I'll be happy. The same for the Elemis spas. However...if that's one of the ways of keeping costs down, I'll deal with it.

[2fromaz]

My Dh and I went to the Art Auction on our first cruise this May. We bought a framed picture that we carried off the ship. We really liked it, but it probably isn't worth very much. We only paid $130 for it. It is an Alexander Chen, and the picture is "Yosemite Half Dome". We don't have the money to buy expensive art right now, but we are happy with this souvenir of our first cruise.

 

http://sales.parkwestgallery.com/art/Ship/Alexander-Chen/cArtist/25/

 

While on our cruise friends bought the same piece for my wife and I for our anniversary. I just love sitting in my chair at home looking at it on our living room wall.we know that meadow so well, it makes us feel as if we are there.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[MiniJeffrey]

Very good write up. I love cruising, but when Park West goes the way of the dinosaur (if it ever does) I'll be happy. The same for the Elemis spas. However...if that's one of the ways of keeping costs down, I'll deal with it.

 

Thanks, it's like I've said: there is nothing illegal about selling overpriced stuff, it's all about the customer who is willing to pay a certain amount of money for a product. Some cruisers lose thousands of dollars in the on-board casino, so why not buy some (overpriced) art?

 

What is strange to me, Park West lost the cases but still managed to get fine art registry offline? Can someone explain that?

[MiniJeffrey]

Have a look at some works I purchased: the signature on the lower work seems very odd to me, comparing to the signature above.

 

[gail-s]

We've bought art on the ship before because we liked it, not because we thought we were getting a great deal or because "oooh! it's that artist!" When we first cruised, you took the art off the ship with you, which was much easier. I wasn't thrilled to learn you can't do that now and take that into account when we find something we like. On the Sky we purchased a piece that we could walk with that was already framed. It was the same artist as another piece we had. I look at it as - how much would I pay for this "print" at Pottery Barn or somewhere? If it's equal to or around the same price and I really like it I go for it. Otherwise I leave it be. Heck, I only started going to the art auction for the free champagne ;)

[Laszlo]

Have a look at some works I purchased: the signature on the lower work seems very odd to me, comparing to the signature above.

 

 

LMAO

The production line is China doesn't have it down yet, a little more practice and they'll nail it

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Edited August 15, 2013 by Laszlo