A Fond Farewell to......

[NeilT66]

I am very interested in the differences between people. I believe understanding is the first step to accepting those differences. I have read your posts about the dress code and learnt to accept that others have different priorities onboard ship and notice different things.

 

I said I notice things that are spectacularly beautiful. I have an eye for the dramatic in fashion. I also tend to blank out many things around me. In common with people of my temperament, I am often 'away with the fairies'. I think about things that are more important to ME than what others are wearing.

 

I'm with you on this one. During our recent cruise on Queen Victoria, as newcomers we were determined not to be caught out so made sure we complied. Not that it's difficult, all I needed as a man was my dinner suit and a casual jacket. The fashion police would probably have grimaced at my dark chinos, but they sufficed. And I usually didn't bother with a tie on informal evenings.

 

We only noticed one fashion faux pas during the two weeks and that was a couple taking lunch in Verandah, he wearing shorts and sandals and with sunglasses perched on top of his head - a bit chav we thought! Other than that we never noticed anyone standing out for poor dressing in Britannia but then, as you say, we were only concerned with the people in our area with whom we chatted. Our new dining companions were considerably more important than someone poorly dressed the other side of the restaurant.

[Austcruiser84]

And I usually didn't bother with a tie on informal evenings.

 

Shocking. Absolutely shocking.

 

That said, not having seen the potentially worn ties, going tieless may have been the humane choice. :)

[Whitemarsh]

I concur. I believe we should celebrate difference (aka bad taste). Whitemarsh, consider what would happen without this "difference"! There would be nobody to judge.

 

Nobody to judge means nobody to scorn.

 

Nobody to scorn means no need for the Fashion Police.

 

No Fashion Police and everyone is suddenly unemployed!

 

Not to mention that the number of CC threads would decline by half...leading to a less engaging experience.

 

So, let's celebrate difference!

 

I don't think you understand the dreadful burden that comes with being part of the Fashion Police. As I was saying to fantasy51, there's no pleasure in observing people walking around in jeans and t-shirts on formal nights. I don't want to see that sort of thing, and neither should anyone else have to either.

 

But thank you for your concern regarding my employment status. :)

 

We can celebrate difference, if you thinks it's worthy of celebration. But lets all turn up to the celebration looking smart shall we. :cool:

 

Talent, innovation and skill are things more worthy of celebration to my way of thinking. Difference will exist whether we celebrate it or not. But I do acknowledge that the world is changing and we are encouraged (in the Orwellian sense) to celebrate mundane things in life like difference.

[Whitemarsh]

Shocking. Absolutely shocking.

 

That said, not having seen the potentially worn ties, going tieless may have been the humane choice. :)

 

lol, yes quite possibly. :D

[Austcruiser84]

I don't think you understand the dreadful burden that comes with being part of the Fashion Police. As I was saying to fantasy51, there's no pleasure in observing people walking around in jeans and t-shirts on formal nights. I don't want to see that sort of thing, and neither should anyone else have to either.

 

As a stylish man I totally understand your burden.

[fantasy51]

I simply do not believe that people do not notice what others are wearing. As I said before, it's like saying that they don't notice gender, race or age. These are things that we just observe involuntarily and process as we go about our business.

 

If you state that you don't care what others are wearing then I believe you - but it doesn't make you a nicer person or more caring and sharing than someone that does care.

 

I had to chuckle at your two comments about noticing race. As a primary teacher in Oxford, once a year I had to fill in questionnaires about the number of children I had in my classroom of different races. I used to have to look through my roll in order to identify them. I was so used to treating all children as individuals, not as members of a race, that I did not immediately remember "X is Afro-Caribbean".

 

Do I think I'm a nicer person because I don't notice things? No. I have never commented on 'niceness', only on difference and on accepting and respecting it. I'm aware that I could have done some things better if I'd been more aware of details. (I'm also aware that some things would not have been done as well if I'd fixated on details.)

 

Sometimes I notice these things and sometimes I don't. That's me.

 

Would I care about someone turning up to a funeral in gardening clothes? I would want to know the reason why. My first instinct would be to give them the benefit of the doubt. I remember many years ago as a teenager (in the days of getting very dressed up for church), some of the other young people had spent Sunday at the beach and returned too late to get changed. They were still keen to attend church so they sat in the porch in their beach clothes. I could understand, and appreciate their commitment, and I would far rather have had them there in the wrong clothes than not at all. Other people were horrified.

 

Difference is not a mundane thing. It is difference that produces creativity. It is a lack of acceptance of difference that produces some of the strife on these boards.

[Louise D]

I concur. I believe we should celebrate difference (aka bad taste). Whitemarsh, consider what would happen without this "difference"! There would be nobody to judge.

 

Nobody to judge means nobody to scorn.

 

Nobody to scorn means no need for the Fashion Police.

 

No Fashion Police and everyone is suddenly unemployed!

 

Not to mention that the number of CC threads would decline by half...leading to a less engaging experience.

 

So, let's celebrate difference!

 

When on board a Cunard ship, the ethos of the Fashion Police is to lead by example.

 

I do not know who started the scurrilous rumour that we sit by the door of the QG lounge pelting passing miscreants with stale scones while shouting "Vive Ferragamo".

 

 

I LOVE this picture! The problem is that I'd have to extend it to not seeing the heads either. What colour is the hair of the person I just spoke to? I don't know unless it was so spectacular that it sparked off some association in my thought processes.

 

My mind is too busy dealing with ideas. I'm interested in the 'two birds in the bush, rather than the bird in the hand'. I let my 'mind inform my eyes', whereas you let your 'eyes inform your mind'. I tend to see things with memory and associations. I see patterns and meanings and assess possibilities. If something my mind sees, chimes with my ideas or associations, then it goes into conscious recognition. If not, then my mind does not focus on it. Ask me about the details around me and I'd have to consciously look at them in order to answer your question.

 

Is this a problem for me? Not at all! You might think I miss out on the richness of colour and sound and scent and texture around me. I no doubt do. I might think you miss out on the richness of ideas and associations in the world around you. That's my privilege to think what I will - as long as I don't criticise you for it. That, after all, is like criticising someone for having a specific colour of hair.

 

Fantasy51, I am sure that you genuinely believe this, but one of our most active members of the FP is an iNtuitive, which puts paid to your theory. I think you should avoid trying to put a rigid label on yourself or others.

[balf]

I LOVE this picture! The problem is that I'd have to extend it to not seeing the heads either. What colour is the hair of the person I just spoke to? I don't know unless it was so spectacular that it sparked off some association in my thought processes.

 

My mind is too busy dealing with ideas. I'm interested in the 'two birds in the bush, rather than the bird in the hand'. I let my 'mind inform my eyes', whereas you let your 'eyes inform your mind'. I tend to see things with memory and associations. I see patterns and meanings and assess possibilities. If something my mind sees, chimes with my ideas or associations, then it goes into conscious recognition. If not, then my mind does not focus on it. Ask me about the details around me and I'd have to consciously look at them in order to answer your question.

 

Is this a problem for me? Not at all! You might think I miss out on the richness of colour and sound and scent and texture around me. I no doubt do. I might think you miss out on the richness of ideas and associations in the world around you. That's my privilege to think what I will - as long as I don't criticise you for it. That, after all, is like criticising someone for having a specific colour of hair.

 

Excellent, and good to know I am not alone. Could this explain why I find it so difficult to recognise faces causing so much embaracement at times.

 

David.

[Whitemarsh]

I LOVE this picture! The problem is that I'd have to extend it to not seeing the heads either. What colour is the hair of the person I just spoke to? I don't know unless it was so spectacular that it sparked off some association in my thought processes.

 

So it would be a concious decision then? You'd notice it and then try to put it out of your mind.

 

My mind is too busy dealing with ideas. I'm interested in the 'two birds in the bush, rather than the bird in the hand'. I let my 'mind inform my eyes', whereas you let your 'eyes inform your mind'. I tend to see things with memory and associations. I see patterns and meanings and assess possibilities. If something my mind sees, chimes with my ideas or associations, then it goes into conscious recognition. If not, then my mind does not focus on it. Ask me about the details around me and I'd have to consciously look at them in order to answer your question.

 

Is this a problem for me? Not at all! You might think I miss out on the richness of colour and sound and scent and texture around me. I no doubt do. I might think you miss out on the richness of ideas and associations in the world around you.

 

I'd hazard a guess that you notice more than you think you do. I'm quite sure medical science hasn't figured out everything there is to know about the human brain.

 

Interestingly, there is a medical condition called Prosopagnosia that prevents the sufferer from recognising human faces. For those that claim not to notice what people are wearing, it could be possible (within the parameters that anything's possible) that there is a similar condition that affects the ability to notice what others are wearing, but I haven't heard of it.

 

That's my privilege to think what I will - as long as I don't criticise you for it. That, after all, is like criticising someone for having a specific colour of hair.

 

It's only human nature that we think we're being criticised when someone disagrees with us.

 

Speaking of specific hair colours, I have never understood the flak that red headed people get.

[Whitemarsh]

When on board a Cunard ship, the ethos of the Fashion Police is to lead by example.

 

I do not know who started the scurrilous rumour that we sit by the door of the QG lounge pelting passing miscreants with stale scones while shouting "Vive Ferragamo".

 

LOL. Seeing as how we apparently have the reputation of being ruthless and heavy handed we have nothing to loose by pelting a few scones at dress code rebels.

 

I'm going to pack a couple of loud-hailers for the next voyage. We can stand on the balcony overlooking the Queens Room and heckle those that haven't adhered to the dress code.

 

"You're doing it wrong" will echo through the Queens Room as the music stops and a spotlight highlights the offenders. :D

[fantasy51]

Fantasy51, I am sure that you genuinely believe this, but one of our most active members of the FP is an iNtuitive, which puts paid to your theory. I think you should avoid trying to put a rigid label on yourself or others.

 

Aha, this makes it even more interesting!

 

Quoting a favorite book: Intuitive types follow their inspirations and hunches. They may reach conclusions too quickly and misconstrue the information or get the facts wrong.

 

So you've given me more information so I can amend my theory. Wonderful!

 

Quoting again: Intuitive types perceive with memory and associations. They see patterns and meanings and assess possibilities.

 

I have seen in the past people become very interested in the possibilities of something, and therefore notice the details. The details are noticed because of other associations or interests. Also, by the time we reach mature age, we have learnt to use all 8 functions. If we mature properly, we go through a stage where we concentrate on the less preferred functions. In my case I did it through taking photographs. Another may do it through an interest in fashion.

 

Do I take the theory rigidly? Of course not! I'm an iNtuitive. I see the possibilities in any theory and play with the bits that make sense to me.

[Louise D]

LOL. Seeing as how we apparently have the reputation of being ruthless and heavy handed we have nothing to loose by pelting a few scones at dress code rebels.

 

I'm going to pack a couple of loud-hailers for the next voyage. We can stand on the balcony overlooking the Queens Room and heckle those that haven't adhered to the dress code.

 

"You're doing it wrong" will echo through the Queens Room as the music stops and a spotlight highlights the offenders. :D

 

This does seem a little dramatic to me and I would prefer something a little more subtle in line with our particular talents.

 

I really think that the Gentlemen Hosts should be doing more to earn their keep. So, under cover of the dim lights in the Queens Room, during a slow dance, when everyone has let down their guard (and some their fashion sense) we send in the Gentleman Hosts to take in charge the dress code offenders and spirit them away to the FP's appointed lair.

[Whitemarsh]

This does seem a little dramatic to me and I would prefer something a little more subtle in line with our particular talents.

 

I really think that the Gentlemen Hosts should be doing more to earn their keep. So, under cover of the dim lights in the Queens Room, during a slow dance, when everyone has let down their guard (and some their fashion sense) we send in the Gentleman Hosts to take in charge the dress code offenders and spirit them away to the FP's appointed lair.

 

Going by the advanced age of some of the Gentlemen Hosts I fear that the culprits would more than likely get away!

 

I say we round up some of the professional complainers (one of us will need to visit the Purser's desk to collect them - offer them extra OBC, they live for that) and send them in to collect the dress code rebels.

[Louise D]

Aha, this makes it even more interesting!

 

Quoting a favorite book: Intuitive types follow their inspirations and hunches. They may reach conclusions too quickly and misconstrue the information or get the facts wrong.

 

So you've given me more information so I can amend my theory. Wonderful!

 

Quoting again: Intuitive types perceive with memory and associations. They see patterns and meanings and assess possibilities.

 

I have seen in the past people become very interested in the possibilities of something, and therefore notice the details. The details are noticed because of other associations or interests. Also, by the time we reach mature age, we have learnt to use all 8 functions. If we mature properly, we go through a stage where we concentrate on the less preferred functions. In my case I did it through taking photographs. Another may do it through an interest in fashion.

 

Do I take the theory rigidly? Of course not! I'm an iNtuitive. I see the possibilities in any theory and play with the bits that make sense to me.

 

I can see that this lady is not for turning.

 

However, to add a little more to what I have already said, I think you would need to break down the iNtuitives into the various sub-types to be able to come to any valid position.

 

For example, where you have said that "they may reach conclusions too quickly and misconstrue the information or get the facts wrong", you would be aware that there are some sub-types which are well known for insisting on looking at all available data before embracing an idea or plan.

[Iceman's Mum]

as I am about to embark on my first Cunard voyage, I am getting rather concerned about the Fashion Police! In all seriousness, I need to ask a question. I have had a melanoma removed from my ankle and, as a consequence, have rather a large 'hole' in my leg. Because of this I cannot currently wear day dresses or cocktail dresses and tend to wear trousers all the time. Is this a problem? Obviously the trousers are smart and the tops I wear are usually 'sparkly'.

 

Any advice VERY gratefully received.

 

thank you :)

[lucky white heather]

Going by the advanced age of some of the Gentlemen Hosts I fear that the culprits would more than likely get away!

 

I say we round up some of the professional complainers (one of us will need to visit the Purser's desk to collect them - offer them extra OBC, they live for that) and send them in to collect the dress code rebels.

 

I really need to get my act together if any OBC ..far less the extra OBC ......is so easy to get at the purser's desk... so they hand it out just for queueing ?

We've obviously missed something here as we've never had any OBC from Cunard ever, but I can do whatever it takes!

[Louise D]

Going by the advanced age of some of the Gentlemen Hosts I fear that the culprits would more than likely get away!

 

I say we round up some of the professional complainers (one of us will need to visit the Purser's desk to collect them - offer them extra OBC, they live for that) and send them in to collect the dress code rebels.

 

That is all very well, but the last lot of professional complainers who appeared at the Purser's office demanding compensation on the night of the electricity black-out on QM2 were described to me as all being in various stages of disability. Moreover, I was told they were unable to walk up more than one flight of stairs without demanding glasses of water.

 

The Gentlemen Hosts can at least keep on their feet for more than 3 minutes at a time, and can mount a few stairs without making strident demands for refreshments.

[capnpugwash]

as I am about to embark on my first Cunard voyage' date=' I am getting rather concerned about the Fashion Police! In all seriousness, I need to ask a question. I have had a melanoma removed from my ankle and, as a consequence, have rather a large 'hole' in my leg. Because of this I cannot currently wear day dresses or cocktail dresses and tend to wear trousers all the time. Is this a problem? Obviously the trousers are smart and the tops I wear are usually 'sparkly'.

 

Any advice VERY gratefully received.

 

thank you :)[/quote']

 

No problem at all, many wear trousers so you won't be alone. :)

[Whitemarsh]

as I am about to embark on my first Cunard voyage' date=' I am getting rather concerned about the Fashion Police! In all seriousness, I need to ask a question. I have had a melanoma removed from my ankle and, as a consequence, have rather a large 'hole' in my leg. Because of this I cannot currently wear day dresses or cocktail dresses and tend to wear trousers all the time. Is this a problem? Obviously the trousers are smart and the tops I wear are usually 'sparkly'.

 

Any advice VERY gratefully received.

 

thank you :)

 

No, it's not a problem.

[Louise D]

I really need to get my act together if any OBC ..far less the extra OBC ......is so easy to get at the purser's desk... so they hand it out just for queueing ?

We've obviously missed something here as we've never had any OBC from Cunard ever, but I can do whatever it takes!

 

There is no doubt that you would have the innate skills to achieve your goals. Just take a few deep breaths, approach the Purser's office with a steely gleam in your eye, identify to the staff member some real or imagined defect in the ship's amenities or services and loudly repeat these 8 key words:-

 

I am totally dissatisfied and I demand compensation.

 

Finish the performance with a sneer and I guarantee it will work every time.

[pepperrn]

There is no doubt that you would have the innate skills to achieve your goals. Just take a few deep breaths, approach the Purser's office with a steely gleam in your eye, identify to the staff member some real or imagined defect in the ship's amenities or services and loudly repeat these 8 key words:- I am totally dissatisfied and I demand compensation. Finish the performance with a sneer and I guarantee it will work every time.

What happens if they cannot help you at that time?

[Whitemarsh]

What happens if they cannot help you at that time?

 

Then it would truly be "The Worst Cruise Ever!".....and an appropriately negative review would need to be submitted right here in our Member Reviews.

 

As a peace offering Cunard might offer a free dinner in The Verandah Restaurant - but hang on, it would probably be closed, so that wouldn't work.

[capnpugwash]

Then it would truly be "The Worst Cruise Ever!".....and an appropriately negative review would need to be submitted right here in our Member Reviews.

 

It has happened before apparently yet those passengers who were treated so harshly continue to return again and again. Such stalwarts must have gone through a lot in the past to be able to tolerate such bad manners.

[fantasy51]

I can see that this lady is not for turning.

 

However, to add a little more to what I have already said, I think you would need to break down the iNtuitives into the various sub-types to be able to come to any valid position.

 

For example, where you have said that "they may reach conclusions too quickly and misconstrue the information or get the facts wrong", you would be aware that there are some sub-types which are well known for insisting on looking at all available data before embracing an idea or plan.

 

But always happy to be educated further!!

 

'Gifts Differing' by Isabel Briggs Myers does not refer to sub-types of Sensing and iNtuition. (If you have any further references, particularly online ones, I'd love to read further. I know that many writers have gone on to develop the original theory in their own ways.)

 

Do you mean, though, by sub-types, the effects that the other preferences may have on the iNtuitive function? I agree that an NF (me) will react very differently from an NT. The NT would be more likely to look at all available data. (Interestingly, the quote above was written by an NT. I wonder if it came out of his frustration with working with NFs!!! Notice that he said MAY, not WILL.) Then if you add in all the other preferences you get even more differences. The N who is also a P (and therefore prefers open-ended) is likely to be more open to new ideas than is the N who is also a J (who likes things to be settled and decided).

 

As an INFP, my N may be expressed in certain ways and these may be different

from how an ENTJ would use his/her iNtuition.

 

Then there is also the question of what is the dominant function. For me, Feeling is dominant. The INTJ author I quoted finds iNtuition to be dominant.

 

There are many variables. What I love about the theory is that it talks about Preferences, not absolutes, and allows space for us all to develop in different ways. We can therefore talk about tendencies to act in certain ways, knowing that not everyone will fit in. (I grew up in a household that valued the opposites of most of my Preferences. I therefore learnt to function in shadow mode at an early age! Organisation never came naturally to me, but I learnt it from self-defence until people often describe me as the most organised person they know. I, however, know differently, and know how easily I misplace everything! To the outward eye I do not fit the Type. To someone who knows the circumstances better, I probably go towards proving the theory.)

[Louise D]

Then it would truly be "The Worst Cruise Ever!".....and an appropriately negative review would need to be submitted right here in our Member Reviews.

 

As a peace offering Cunard might offer a free dinner in The Verandah Restaurant - but hang on, it would probably be closed, so that wouldn't work.

 

So it would be back to the cold pasta without sauce again with a side order of thin burnt toast?