Balcony Smoking ending !

[Whitemarsh]

You I, what does that mean?

 

David.

 

That's what I was asking you.

[balf]

 

 

 

And please, I am not with you in any sense other than that I am writing on these threads. And not even that after this post.

 

Well you did say that some posts ago.

 

David.

[balf]

That's what I was asking you.

 

Obviously it wouldn't be be me sitting on the balcony puffing.

 

When I say I like that, I mean the concept of the smoker sitting on his balcony, contentedly puffing as the long days count down to the end of a perfect world cruise and of a freedom that will soon be ended.

 

Maybe I should pipe down, irony does not go down well here, though mostly it seems by my fellow Brits.

 

Ah well.

 

David

[Margana]

First post, but I’ve been reading the boards for some time and have appreciated the information and humour provided. I tend to think of this topic as “no smoke without ire”.

I smoke - not much – one with morning coffee, drink in afternoon and post-dinner on the balcony, but hadn’t realised what an intolerable hazard this presented to neighbouring passengers, particularly when the ship was motoring along at 17 knots or so. Certainly no-one complained or I’d have compromised. Sorry. Used the C-word. We’ve always cruised with Cunard, the ships suit us, but now with the change in policy we will consider all the other cruise lines which we’d previously discounted because of their balcony restriction. Mr. Tempest must believe that the number of people who didn’t book with Cunard because smoking was permitted on balconies and now will book, is greater than the number who appreciated the privilege and who will now look elsewhere. Might be true, but I found a paper (Reference “Tobacco smoking in countries of the European Union. Annals of Agricultural and Environmental Medicine 2012, Vol.19 N0.2, 181-192 Available as PDF document), which reports 30-40% men and 20-30% women as smokers (Age group 20-64) in the majority of European countries. If, as has been said, Mr.Tempest wants to attract a younger and more European demographic group, the percentage of smokers (age 20 -44) who smoke is even greater - 30-60% men and 20-40% women. So if the European customers decide that the new policy is not for them, it could be problematic. Throw the heavy smoking Chinese into the market, and it’s possibly even more so. Time will tell.

Anyway, the anti-smokers should applaud themselves. An alleged dispersed and diluted hazard on a few balconies will be concentrated by congregating smokers on designated open deck areas. Well done. But my balcony is in the shade and I want to sit on that bit of deck where the smokers are when the sun shines on it................ “Please Sir,” replied Oliver, “I want some more.”

[Whitemarsh]

Obviously it wouldn't be be me sitting on the balcony puffing.

 

When I say I like that, I mean the concept of the smoker sitting on his balcony, contentedly puffing as the long days count down to the end of a perfect world cruise and of a freedom that will soon be ended.

 

Maybe I should pipe down, irony does not go down well here, though mostly it seems by my fellow Brits.

 

Ah well.

 

David

 

No, I get it. An Indian Summer for the smokers and dress code enthusiasts. A final hurrah before the barbarians sack the city.

[balf]

No, I get it. An Indian Summer for the smokers and dress code enthusiasts. A final hurrah before the barbarians sack the city.

 

Yep, you got it.

 

David.

[balf]

[.............. “Please Sir,” replied Oliver, “I want some more.”[/size][/font]

 

The master aimed a blow at Oliver's head with the ladle; pinioned him in his arms; and shrieked aloud for the beadle.

 

The board were sitting in solemn conclave, when Mr. Bumble rushed into the room in great excitement, and addressing the gentleman in the high chair, said,

 

"Mr. Limbkins, I beg your pardon, sir! Oliver Twist has asked for more!"

 

There was a general start. Horror was depicted on every countenance.

 

David.

[Margana]

The master aimed a blow at Oliver's head with the ladle; pinioned him in his arms; and shrieked aloud for the beadle.

 

The board were sitting in solemn conclave, when Mr. Bumble rushed into the room in great excitement, and addressing the gentleman in the high chair, said,

 

"Mr. Limbkins, I beg your pardon, sir! Oliver Twist has asked for more!"

 

There was a general start. Horror was depicted on every countenance.

 

David.

 

Thank you for the further quotation. I think it illustrates the point I was clumsily trying to make.

[balf]

 

Ah statistics. I think we would need to dig a bit deeper.

 

If you look at the percentages by Socio-Economic Group, the figures are much more revealing as applied to the cruise industry.

 

In 2010 the percentage of non manual workers in UK who smoke was 13%, far fewer than manual workers who make up the great majority.

 

Where do manual workers cruise? Carnival and similar. Carnival still have a relaxed smoking policy.

 

And I think you would not find many manual workers aboard a Cunard ship, though I have great regards for them: I was one for some years.

 

Cunard will have looked at these and many more statistics before making this change.

 

David.

[Cashew14]

Hi all

 

I am a smoker and instead of fighting and arguing with non-smokers I have started a thread called "Smokers: Are you thinking of changing cruise lines if you can't smoker on balconies".

 

I think it's time for fight for our rights now and stop fighting a battle with non-smokers which does not lead us anywhere.

 

Andrea

[Salacia]

Ah statistics. I think we would need to dig a bit deeper.

 

If you look at the percentages by Socio-Economic Group, the figures are much more revealing as applied to the cruise industry.

 

In 2010 the percentage of non manual workers in UK who smoke was 13%, far fewer than manual workers who make up the great majority.

 

Where do manual workers cruise? Carnival and similar. Carnival still have a relaxed smoking policy.

 

And I think you would not find many manual workers aboard a Cunard ship, though I have great regards for them: I was one for some years.

 

Cunard will have looked at these and many more statistics before making this change.

 

David.

 

Gee, David, I don't know about what type of workers will be the new Cunard passengers. Considering the recent drops in fares, I'd say Cunard has become very affordable to those who can wait until closer to sail date to book, whether they are manual workers or millionaire bargain hunters :). But perhaps the more affulent passengers - many of whom are retired, that were loyal to the old Cunard, will find other holiday options in response to recent changes.

 

Cunard has stated that they looking for a new demographic, and I have no doubt they'll find it!

 

Salacia

[Margana]

Ah statistics. I think we would need to dig a bit deeper.

 

If you look at the percentages by Socio-Economic Group, the figures are much more revealing as applied to the cruise industry.

 

In 2010 the percentage of non manual workers in UK who smoke was 13%, far fewer than manual workers who make up the great majority.

 

Where do manual workers cruise? Carnival and similar. Carnival still have a relaxed smoking policy.

 

And I think you would not find many manual workers aboard a Cunard ship, though I have great regards for them: I was one for some years.

 

Cunard will have looked at these and many more statistics before making this change.

 

David.

 

 

"He failed to see the horny-handed sons of toil enjoying grand pianos or riding in automobiles." Jack London

 

Thanks for the information. A couple of points though. I'm not aware of divulging my occupation to Cunard when booking a cruise, so I'm not sure how they could have made the correlation you suggest.

I also find your assertion that not many manual workers cruise on Cunard interesting. Do you have a particular gift or method for distinguishing between the various socio-economic strata in the UK?

Also, the report I referred to, and abstracted some general figures from, was for European Union countries, so while your figure of 13% may be correct for the UK, it's not necessarily valid for other countries.

[balf]

"

 

I also find your assertion that not many manual workers cruise on Cunard interesting. .

 

I have cruised with Cunard many times and as I'm sure you know the next question after "where do you come from" is so often" "what's your line of business"

 

The only time we ever came near was one table with a postman as a table companion.

 

Cunard need to look for younger customers who are looking for a change up to cruising. They have decided that they don't really want smokers.

 

I'd say they know their business better than we do.

 

David.

[Norfolk Brit]

Off the top of my head, we've met a postman, a care worker, a handyman, a retired lacemaker and a retired printer (a Maxwell pensioner, who got his pension in the end).

 

To keep on topic, only one of them smoked. Of the few smokers in Churchills who discussed their occupation, most were professionals.

 

This survey is entirely random and no conclusions should be drawn.:cool:

 

Mary

[Salacia]

I have cruised with Cunard many times and as I'm sure you know the next question after "where do you come from" is so often" "what's your line of business"

 

The only time we ever came near was one table with a postman as a table companion.

 

Cunard need to look for younger customers who are looking for a change up to cruising. They have decided that they don't really want smokers.

 

I'd say they know their business better than we do.

 

David.

 

Well, I certainly don't claim to know much about Carnival UK's business, but I've been on more ships than Gerard Tempest has - not that that counts for anything.:)

 

Here's an observation from someone who knows more about the cruise industry than I do:

 

"It seems to show that Carnival UK has in some ways lost its way as it seeks younger cruisers. In essence, it seems to be breaking both brands in an attempt to create new ones.

“I want to bring in newcomers to the brands and newcomers happen to have a lower average age,” Dingle told the Telegraph. The old brands are thrown out while new brand building is to commence for both P&O and Cunard." copied from http://thecruisepeople.ca/cruiseblog/?p=1127 (BTW, that entire article makes for interesting reading, imho.)

[Margana]

I have cruised with Cunard many times and as I'm sure you know the next question after "where do you come from" is so often" "what's your line of business"

 

The only time we ever came near was one table with a postman as a table companion.

 

Cunard need to look for younger customers who are looking for a change up to cruising. They have decided that they don't really want smokers.

 

I'd say they know their business better than we do.

 

David.

 

Thanks for explaining. It sounds like a random sample of a statistically insignificant number of passengers with pretty big +/- errors.

 

I agree that Cunard know their business better than I do, and good luck to them encouraging young non-smoking professionals to book cruises.

[Salacia]

Hi all

 

I am a smoker and instead of fighting and arguing with non-smokers I have started a thread called "Smokers: Are you thinking of changing cruise lines if you can't smoker on balconies".

 

I think it's time for fight for our rights now and stop fighting a battle with non-smokers which does not lead us anywhere.

 

Andrea

 

Hi Andrea. As much as I'd like to agree with you, I'm afraid that passengers have few rights on a cruise ship, including but not limited to smoking. Reading the contract for passage will support my statement, and passengers must agree to the contract for passage prior to sailing.

 

However, I do agree that fighting and arguing is non-productive. As has been suggested, only if cruise lines loose bookings as a result of the ban on balcony smoking is there a chance of repeal or moderation. Regards, -S.

[Cashew14]

Hi Andrea. As much as I'd like to agree with you, I'm afraid that passengers have few rights on a cruise ship, including but not limited to smoking. Reading the contract for passage will support my statement, and passengers must agree to the contract for passage prior to sailing.

 

However, I do agree that fighting and arguing is non-productive. As has been suggested, only if cruise lines loose bookings as a result of the ban on balcony smoking is there a chance of repeal or moderation. Regards, -S.

 

Hi Salacia

 

I absolutely agree with you, this is why I started a thread as I think there is no harm to give feedback to what people think in respects to finding other cruise lines. I think smokers have been too quiet about all the changes and just let it happen. I feel now tables are turning in attitude from smokers since cruise ships tighten and tighten areas where someone can smoke. There is only so much people are willing to put up with.

 

All the best

 

Andrea :)

[Salacia]

Hi Salacia

 

I absolutely agree with you, this is why I started a thread as I think there is no harm to give feedback to what people think in respects to finding other cruise lines. I think smokers have been too quiet about all the changes and just let it happen. I feel now tables are turning in attitude from smokers since cruise ships tighten and tighten areas where someone can smoke. There is only so much people are willing to put up with.

 

All the best

 

Andrea :)

 

Hi Andrea. Hope you don't mind if I post a link to your thread http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1900056

Cheers,

-S.

[Cashew14]

Hi Andrea. Hope you don't mind if I post a link to your thread http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1900056

Cheers,

-S.

 

Thank you, why didn't I think of that? :D

[balf]

Thanks for explaining. It sounds like a random sample of a statistically insignificant number of passengers with pretty big +/- errors.

 

 

True, but it's the best we can do.

 

David.

[Margana]

True, but it's the best we can do.

 

David.

 

It's not the best that we can do. It's not even the best that you could do if you thought about it, and I doubt very much whether Cunard have even contemplated assessing the number of passengers who smoke based on their occupations.

[DDBINK1]

I like this thread of conversation.

I don't usually smoke but I do enjoy a vanilla cigar / cig once in a while. I had noted a few people complain that there are chain smokers on their balcony next to their cabin in the past. I always just go out there on my balcony with a large whiskey and beg a cig from the chain smoking neighbor and smoke along with them. :eek: I must say I usually just cough and gag on the smoke from the thing but heck it goes well with whiskey so why the heck not. When in Rome...

This always starts a good conversation too. That way they don't report me for my cigar smoking on the balcony. :D

I think they should sell cabins as port side smoking and starboard nonsmoking. (for the balcony of course).

Hey wait a minute, Cunard could charge for an ashtray cleaning fee for smokers and make a bit more money from the people that smoke. ;)

[patwell]

Well, I certainly don't claim to know much about Carnival UK's business, but I've been on more ships than Gerard Tempest has - not that that counts for anything.:)

 

Here's an observation from someone who knows more about the cruise industry than I do:

 

"It seems to show that Carnival UK has in some ways lost its way as it seeks younger cruisers. In essence, it seems to be breaking both brands in an attempt to create new ones.

“I want to bring in newcomers to the brands and newcomers happen to have a lower average age,” Dingle told the Telegraph. The old brands are thrown out while new brand building is to commence for both P&O and Cunard." copied from http://thecruisepeople.ca/cruiseblog/?p=1127 (BTW, that entire article makes for interesting reading, imho.)

 

Thanks for that link Salacia.....very interesting reading and seems to indicate that change is coming and it might well not be what those who in the past have had a great loyalty to the old Cunard will like to see.

 

And what do you suppose that means in light of statements that they wish to bring in newcomers of a lower age.....and demographics perhaps? I'd guess that a lot of recent cost cutting and special fares are aimed just at that new demographic, a group that I doubt will ever possess the loyalty factor Cunard has touted in the past.

 

Younger people in many countries are struggling to get by...the economy is still unhealthy and not showing great signs of improvement. So I wonder where these younger passengers will find the funds for cruising unless fares are dropped so low they can manage. And of course what follows that is a lowering of standards ( lightening up on the dress code perhaps?), services and quality.

 

Younger people with no specific loyalty to one brand are far quicker to jump ship, as it were, to the next new whiz bang cruise ship that floats out. Variety will be far more appealing to that group than dressing for dinner as a selling point will be I'm sure.

 

Once this new plan is implemented over the next year or so traditionalists who loved the old Cunard might well be seriously disappointed in the changes this seems to herald. All those years of hyping tradition and history will fall by the wayside. Maybe that even started with the reflagging of Cunard. And Cunard really don't care.....to them tradition is all marketing hype they can exploit. Paint a mystique that really doesn't exist anymore. Now they are finding that they need to do more to maximize profits and try to fill all those ships every week.

 

Where all of this is leading is anyone's guess and I have a feeling even Cunard is flailing about right now in hopes of landing on a viable direction. WE'd seen enough change a couple of years ago to make us look elsewhere. Certainly the new smoking rules would have made us do it now were we still considering Cunard.

 

I love QM2 and the Cunard she introduced us to. QM2, that lovely ship, is still there.....that Cunard is not.

 

Cheers, Penny

Penny’s “Affair to Remember” QM2 Review Dec. 2006

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=471053

November 10,2007...QM2 to the Caribbean again

October 16,2008...QM2 transatlantic in tandem with the grand QE2 on her final transatlantic voyage.

December 9, 2008...QM2...back to the Caribbean

July 30, 2009....QM2....transatlantic again...

August 7, 2009....QM2... “home” to Norway

Feb. 7, 2010....Emerald Princess to the Caribbean

Aug 14, 2010...QM2... return to Norway, all the way to the top!

Aug 22, 2011...Diamond Princess....North to Alaska!!

Dec 2,2011...Noordam to the Caribbean...outstanding! http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1544173

2012...Assorted land trips in my own stunning country

Oct 2012....OBX

2012...Booked on the lovely Noordam again

2013...5 months at our summer home on Cape Cod....priceless!

 

Several North Atlantic crossings from childhood thru college on ships of the old Norwegian America line and Swedish America Line...RIP to those marvelous old ships

[Chunky2219]

What a load of rubbish. :)

 

"Nobody is as rude as any smoker" - I can think of one person that might just qualify.

 

I'm assuming you're not a smoker, because that was pretty rude.

 

And what's all this about people throwing their cigarette butts overboard? Is it the smoking equivalent of the laundry wars - a seagoing urban myth? Did you clutch your pearls when hundreds of butts came hurtling towards you as you took a turn around the deck? :eek:

Star Princess, 2006. A cigarette took out a large section of one side of the ship. At least, that was the official cause, but it could have been a conspiracy theory just to get smoking banned. Eight years later, there's been progress but there's still a distance to go.

 

.

.