Balcony Smoking ending !

[Yoshikitty]

It's not the smell, it's the harmful particles that come with the smell that are the problem.....

 

Reducing the problem to "smell" just misses the entire issue imo

 

 

"I'm not against people smoking, but I insist they keep it to themselves."

 

And that's exactly how I feel! Thanks for posting!

[spobird]

It's not the smell, it's the harmful particles that come with the smell that are the problem.....

 

Reducing the problem to "smell" just misses the entire issue imo

 

So now it's the "harmful particles", not the actual smell. I presume we are to take it that non-smokers can detect those "harmful particles" and smokers cannot. I am not entirely sure what a "harmful particle" that comes with the smell is. Is there scientific proof for these "harmful particles"?

 

I think this just supports what I said in my last post. Some people are fanatically against smoking - they are anti-smoking - and will take their arguments into the realms of the unreasonable, unsubstantiated and even the supernatural it would appear. And this is getting into those realms now. It is no longer a reasonable discussion of whether smoking should be allowed on balconies on Cunard ships but a free for all for bald and unsubstantiated statements about smoking, smells and even...harmful particles. So I am off to look for my tin hat and am finished with this.

[Yoshikitty]

Well, calling me a fanatic nonsmoker isn't over friendly isn't it!

 

Unless you believe that the earth has a disc- shape, you should have come across with some facts that cigarette smoke contains harmful particles which end up in your lungs.

I am cetainly sure that I made my concerns in that matter more than clear in my previous post.

 

If you seriously deny this, I can't help you further.

[spobird]

Well, calling me a fanatic nonsmoker isn't over friendly isn't it!

 

Unless you believe that the earth has a disc- shape, you should have come across with some facts that cigarette smoke contains harmful particles which end up in your lungs.

I am cetainly sure that I made my concerns in that matter more than clear in my previous post.

 

If you seriously deny this, I can't help you further.

 

You should calm yourself. I didn't call anyone in particular fanatic. I said some people are. If the shoe fits wear it.

 

You didn't say that the smoke had harmful particles you said that the SMELL has harmful particles. I seriously deny this.

 

I am not against anyone believing in nonsense I just INSIST they keep it to themselves.

[balf]

. How can you possibly know as a non-smoker what a smoker can or can't smell? Just not possible, David.

 

I can't understand is why you find that particular smell so much more offensive than any other such as cheap perfume, sweat, or worse things. .

 

I know an ex smoker who subjected me to years of smoke, until he developed severe COPD, lost a lung and gave up. Did he ever smell others smoke then ? No, but now he is ultra sensitive to it, worse than me, so at least I do know of one case.

 

And I have only realised re your comment that you just don't encounter strong perfume nowadays as you used to some years ago. Maybe it's just not bought now or people have responded to adverse comments.I can remember one called, I think Poison that was really stifling. And sweat, what used to be called BO. Never encountered that on any Cunard ship.

 

There has been so much comment here from both sides. My advice for what it's worth is write to Cunard and make your protests be heard.

 

Personally I have never added comments about smoking on the comments form, or re dress code either though I did mention the excessively loud band drowning out the vocalist. Hasn't worked yet but I live in hope.

 

Pack them in Spobird, you really will feel better.

 

David

[Yoshikitty]

 

You didn't say that the smoke had harmful particles you said that the SMELL has harmful particles. I seriously deny this.

 

 

If you read my post again, I did not! You are only nitpicking to ridicule my argument.

Was talking about the particles that come when you smell smoke - If you smell smoke, there are particles that are harmful.

And we are still speaking about smell/ smoke that comes from the neighbour balcony.

 

It's not that difficult.

[fantasy51]

Without being fanatical, just an observation from a non-smoker: I've noticed people smoking outside, coming in immediately and breathing out that last lungful of smoke into the room. That produces passive smoking. The only difference is that the quantity is diluted as it's only a couple of breaths. However, it does produce a smell in the room, so Yoshikitty is correct about the harmful particles that are coming along with the smell.

 

I noticed when my nephew (a non-smoker) lived with me for a year, he'd go to the pub and his clothes would stink of cigarettes. He had to keep his bedroom door closed to keep the smell in, but it still affected my enjoyment of my house. However, I did not feel that it caused me to breathe in anything harmful. (His deodorant, on the other hand, caused me to almost collapse because of my perfume allergy. He used to have to use it in his room with the door closed and the window open. lol That was definitely a smell containing harmful particles or chemicals.)

[voyagerdreamer224]

I am not a smoker. I too lost my father way too early due to his smoking habit. I do not particularly enjoy a smoke filled room.

 

But I do very much enjoy the good company and conversation of many people who happen to be smokers. I would be very sad to lose them as travel companions.

 

I look for what economic benefit might drive this decision, since, as many note here, there seems a great drop off in business in both the Casino and the bar/lounges, especially as the evening progresses. It is hard often to find a bar open late anymore on some trips, and the ship seems to shut down much earlier than in past years already. The pricing, at least at the Britannia cabin levels, seems to have dropped dramatically on many recent and upcoming sailings.

 

I wonder if the driver here may not be safety and/or perhaps escalating insurance costs and conditions, or some combination of economic factors for Cunard/Carnival Corp.

 

Having seen what smoking can do, I of course would wish for my friends who do smoke to stop. I do not know enough about them to know if e cigarettes provide a viable substitute. But I am not a fan of banning or marginalizing them, especially when there are ways to provide specific areas for smoking if compromise is needed.

 

Jane:(

[Andiamo]

I am not a smoker. I too lost my father way too early due to his smoking habit. I do not particularly enjoy a smoke filled room.

 

But I do very much enjoy the good company and conversation of many people who happen to be smokers. I would be very sad to lose them as travel companions.

 

I look for what economic benefit might drive this decision, since, as many note here, there seems a great drop off in business in both the Casino and the bar/lounges, especially as the evening progresses. It is hard often to find a bar open late anymore on some trips, and the ship seems to shut down much earlier than in past years already. The pricing, at least at the Britannia cabin levels, seems to have dropped dramatically on many recent and upcoming sailings.

 

I wonder if the driver here may not be safety and/or perhaps escalating insurance costs and conditions, or some combination of economic factors for Cunard/Carnival Corp.

 

Having seen what smoking can do, I of course would wish for my friends who do smoke to stop. I do not know enough about them to know if e cigarettes provide a viable substitute. But I am not a fan of banning or marginalizing them, especially when there are ways to provide specific areas for smoking if compromise is needed.

 

Jane:(

 

Jane,

 

Good evening girlfriend. Thanks for this post.

 

J

[pmb1]

... I noticed when my nephew (a non-smoker) lived with me for a year, he'd go to the pub and his clothes would stink of cigarettes. He had to keep his bedroom door closed to keep the smell in, but it still affected my enjoyment of my house. ...

That reminds me of the considerate gentleman I encountered in Churchill's a few years ago who left his jacket on a chair in the Commodore Club before entering to enjoy his cigar; his wife hates the cigar smell that clings to the jacket, he explained. Of course, all of the rest of us in the room were too polite to ask why his wife wasn't interested in sniffing the rest of him.

[seasidegal]

I am not a smoker. I too lost my father way too early due to his smoking habit. I do not particularly enjoy a smoke filled room.

 

But I do very much enjoy the good company and conversation of many people who happen to be smokers. I would be very sad to lose them as travel companions.

 

I look for what economic benefit might drive this decision, since, as many note here, there seems a great drop off in business in both the Casino and the bar/lounges, especially as the evening progresses. It is hard often to find a bar open late anymore on some trips, and the ship seems to shut down much earlier than in past years already. The pricing, at least at the Britannia cabin levels, seems to have dropped dramatically on many recent and upcoming sailings.

 

I wonder if the driver here may not be safety and/or perhaps escalating insurance costs and conditions, or some combination of economic factors for Cunard/Carnival Corp.

 

Having seen what smoking can do, I of course would wish for my friends who do smoke to stop. I do not know enough about them to know if e cigarettes provide a viable substitute. But I am not a fan of banning or marginalizing them, especially when there are ways to provide specific areas for smoking if compromise is needed.

 

Jane:(

 

Jane,

 

I was wondering about the insurance costs as a contributing factor also as Disney (no relation to Cunard/Carnival/PO...not even a kissing cousin;)) came out with almost the same announcement at the same time. I wonder about the safety issue as if that is a factor why didn't Carnival follow Cunard with concern for their passengers safety and health:confused:

[Cats2010]

Jane,

 

I was wondering about the insurance costs as a contributing factor also as Disney (no relation to Cunard/Carnival/PO...not even a kissing cousin;)) came out with almost the same announcement at the same time. I wonder about the safety issue as if that is a factor why didn't Carnival follow Cunard with concern for their passengers safety and health:confused:

 

Yes, It thought so, too.

[Salacia]

They might not be kissing cousins, but they are members of the Cruise Line International Association (CLIA). Cruise lines come together to reach agreements that they believe will assure the success of the cruise line industry. Note the slogan "one industry, one voice "in the following statement:

 

'The CLIA member lines are looking ahead with optimism and a proud sense of accomplishment. There are 37 new ships in the CLIA Member lines that have, or will be , be entering service between 2011 and 2015. CLIA member lines had over 200 ships cruising around the world carrying over 16 million passengers. CLIA is the largest association in the cruise industry, working from the mantra, "One Industry, One Voice." CLIA represents the interests of 26 member cruise lines and our key industry partners, operating in the U.S. and internationally. CLIA participates in the Regulatory, Safety, Security, Environmental and Policy Development process; as well as the marketing and promoting the cruise vacation experience; all supporting policies and practices that foster a safe, secure and healthy cruise ship environment..."

 

read more here http://www.cruising.org/regulatory/about-clias-executive-partner-program

[spobird]

The phrase "anti-smoker" has been bandied about in this thread. I know many people who have strong opinions about banning smoking where it may affect others and not one of them is an "anti-smoker." A chap I worked with over 30 years ago was attempting to have the work-places in Government of Ontario buildings declared no smoking. (He was way ahead of his time, but it finally happened in the mid-1990s.) He always said: "I'm not against people smoking, but I insist they keep it to themselves."

 

 

Why would you feel there is anything wrong with being called an anti-smoker? Words have meanings and we need to use them correctly to make ourselves clearly understood. A non-smoker is someone who doesn't smoke. Plain and simple. An anti-smoker is someone who is against smoking. In some or all areas of life. That's just a question of the degree of how anti-smoking someone is. If you believe in your cause, you feel it will do the world good, and you pursue it with decency and non-violence then you should be proud of it.

 

I am anti-intolerance and proud of it.

 

I am anti-cruelty to children and animals and proud of it.

 

And I had I lived in the 19th century I would have been anti-slavery and proud of it.

[spobird]

I know an ex smoker who subjected me to years of smoke, until he developed severe COPD, lost a lung and gave up. Did he ever smell others smoke then ? No, but now he is ultra sensitive to it, worse than me, so at least I do know of one case.

 

Not a sufficient answer, David. One swallow does not a summer make.

 

And I have only realised re your comment that you just don't encounter strong perfume nowadays as you used to some years ago. Maybe it's just not bought now or people have responded to adverse comments.I can remember one called, I think Poison that was really stifling. And sweat, what used to be called BO. Never encountered that on any Cunard ship.

 

I have.

 

There has been so much comment here from both sides. My advice for what it's worth is write to Cunard and make your protests be heard.

 

I will.

 

Personally I have never added comments about smoking on the comments form, or re dress code either though I did mention the excessively loud band drowning out the vocalist. Hasn't worked yet but I live in hope.

 

Pack them in Spobird, you really will feel better.

 

Should I decide to stop smoking ( pack them in as you call it ) it would be on the advice of people who are I know qualified to give such advice, not someone on the internet that I don't know anything about.

David

 

I note that you did not respond to my statement that I can't understand why you find one particular odour so much more offensive than any other and feel that you have more right than anyone else to decide which odours should be banned. Before I write any more let me say that I know there will be those who read it and respond that I don't have any rights as a newbie to be writing such a long and- some will think - lecturing post. To that I respond in advance. Yes, I am a newbie to this site, but not to the world any more than anyone else. I came onto the site with the express purpose of expressing my frustration with the new smoking policy of Cunard and seeing if there was anything that might be done about it. However last night I was quite upset by the character that the discussion took on this particular thread and I feel the need - and the right - to respond.

 

Being against smoking ( that is anti-smoking ) is perfectly alright. No more really needs to be said about that. But when it gets into the realms of objecting to how people smell when they enter a room, or an elevator we are taking it to a level of intolerance that has no health concerns to support it. This is a dangerous level. People often have distinctive odours. Below are just a few. I am making no qualitative ( good or bad ) judgement about them.

 

People from some countries consume a lot of garlic. They often smell of it.

 

People from other countries cook with lots of spices. They often smell of it.

 

People from still other countries fry bacon and onions quite a lot. These too are strong smells that linger.

 

Large groups of children and teenagers in an enclosed space have a quite distinctive smell. As a retired teacher I know this.

 

People who wear a lot of deodorant or perfume quite obviously have a certain odour.

 

People who don't wear deodorant or perfume also sometimes smell.

 

People who have pets sometimes carry the odours of their animals with them.

 

Fisherman famously can never get rid of the smell of fish on themselves.

 

And so on.

 

Who will be the next group to be ostracised merely on the basis of smell? Be careful it might be you.

[Norfolk Brit]

People from some countries consume a lot of garlic. They often smell of it.

 

 

Excellent post, thank you.

 

Actually, as someone who can't stand the stuff, I can assure you that everyone smells of garlic. One simply either gets used to it or shoves off to a desert island somewhere, free of the assorted fragrances of one's fellow man. I prefer to silently put up with it, and wish that others would afford the same luxury to smokers.

 

Mary

[Whitemarsh]

People from some countries consume a lot of garlic. They often smell of it.

 

People from other countries cook with lots of spices. They often smell of it.

 

People from still other countries fry bacon and onions quite a lot. These too are strong smells that linger.

 

Large groups of children and teenagers in an enclosed space have a quite distinctive smell. As a retired teacher I know this.

 

People who wear a lot of deodorant or perfume quite obviously have a certain odour.

 

People who don't wear deodorant or perfume also sometimes smell.

 

People who have pets sometimes carry the odours of their animals with them.

 

Fisherman famously can never get rid of the smell of fish on themselves.

 

Really? What do they smell like?

[spobird]

Really? What do they smell like?

 

Yes, really. Though as a smoker I supposedly can't smell anything, right? It's hard to describe, sweet combined with a bit grubby in the case of little ones. Teenagers I bet you can figure it out for yourself!

 

In both cases when school has been closed for holidays and you go back in before the start of a new term to prepare it is quite noticeable that the aromas are not there. After the first day you get that good old nostalgia feeling for the classroom through your sense of smell if nothing else!

[spobird]

Excellent post, thank you.

 

Actually, as someone who can't stand the stuff, I can assure you that everyone smells of garlic. One simply either gets used to it or shoves off to a desert island somewhere, free of the assorted fragrances of one's fellow man. I prefer to silently put up with it, and wish that others would afford the same luxury to smokers.

 

Mary

 

Thank you, Mary. Garlic doesn't bother me but if it did I would put up with it just as you do and as I put up with the odour of stale sweat/deodorant/running shoes and socks when on two of my recent voyages my muster station was in the gym.

 

And moving back to actual health hazards. I am highly allergic to cat hair. I like cats but can't be near them. I can tell if someone who has had cat hair on them has been in a room. I start to itch and sneeze. However I have not asked Cunard to ban cat owners or ask them to make sure their clothing brings no traces of cat hair on board. I just bring my anti-histamines and deal with it.

[david,Mississauga]

Thanks to Google, it takes only a few minutes to determine that tobacco smoke contains 7000 chemicals, 150 of which are harmful - and 60 of them are carcinogens. Of course some scientific research will show slightly different figures, but nonetheless many Nicotine addicts will claim this is all a conspiracy by non-smokers.

 

There is a reason why I am determined to avoid other people's tobacco smoke, and it's not the smell - although I was never pleased to have my clothes and hair absorb this odour. In the 1960s and early 1970s I suffered bouts of serious bronchitis that had me bed-ridden three or four times a year. I knew this was caused by having to live with my chain-smoking father and to a lesser extent for just a year or two from working in offices where smoking was permitted. My doctor confirmed that it was tobacco smoke that was making me ill. But in the 1960s the medical profession had not yet accepted that involuntary smoking/second-hand smoking/passive smoking (whatever it is called from time to time) was harmful. My doctor even accused me of being a closet smoker and not telling him the truth. The doctor smoked while examining me with his stethoscope. Later, when watching Dr. Daley on "Bless Me Father" I thought of that doctor I went to from 1960 to 1970. When I could afford to move out of the family home, I did so and the incidents of bronchitis were immediately reduced by two-thirds. Two years later I changed jobs and worked in an area where smoking was not permitted and I have not had a single bout of bronchitis or any lung problems since then - 42 years. Unfortunately for my mother, who suffered more than I did and eventually had to be on oxygen therapy full-time for her last few years, did not have the option of getting away from it. If smokers think this is fantasy, then so be it. Even my father, who for decades prattled on about smoking not being harmful, admitted six days before he died that he was wrong.

[spobird]

Thanks to Google, it takes only a few minutes to determine that tobacco smoke contains 7000 chemicals, 150 of which are harmful - and 60 of them are carcinogens. Of course some scientific research will show slightly different figures, but nonetheless many Nicotine addicts will claim this is all a conspiracy by non-smokers.

 

There is a reason why I am determined to avoid other people's tobacco smoke, and it's not the smell - although I was never pleased to have my clothes and hair absorb this odour. In the 1960s and early 1970s I suffered bouts of serious bronchitis that had me bed-ridden three or four times a year. I knew this was caused by having to live with my chain-smoking father and to a lesser extent for just a year or two from working in offices where smoking was permitted. My doctor confirmed that it was tobacco smoke that was making me ill. But in the 1960s the medical profession had not yet accepted that involuntary smoking/second-hand smoking/passive smoking (whatever it is called from time to time) was harmful. My doctor even accused me of being a closet smoker and not telling him the truth. The doctor smoked while examining me with his stethoscope. Later, when watching Dr. Daley on "Bless Me Father" I thought of that doctor I went to from 1960 to 1970. When I could afford to move out of the family home, I did so and the incidents of bronchitis were immediately reduced by two-thirds. Two years later I changed jobs and worked in an area where smoking was not permitted and I have not had a single bout of bronchitis or any lung problems since then - 42 years. Unfortunately for my mother, who suffered more than I did and eventually had to be on oxygen therapy full-time for her last few years, did not have the option of getting away from it. If smokers think this is fantasy, then so be it. Even my father, who for decades prattled on about smoking not being harmful, admitted six days before he died that he was wrong.

 

All of this is I am sure quite true and certainly quite sad. No one thinks it is fantasy. Children of alcoholics have even more harrowing stories to tell, I know.

 

However it does not explain why you would object to being called anti-smoking as you did above and as I questioned. You story is all the more reason why you should be proud to pursue the cause of anti-smoking.

[fantasy51]

Really? What do they smell like?

 

My sister, a secondary teacher in Brisbane, would never let her own children wear trainers to school because of the smell that used to meet her in the classroom - a whole room full of teenagers with sweaty feet in trainers! :p

 

Spobird, just a little aside: you say you are allergic to cat hair. My specialist tells me that it is actually a protein in cat saliva that causes the problems. Because they continually groom themselves, you end up with the saliva (along with the cat hairs) all over the furniture, people's clothes, etc. Friends used to kindly shut their cats out of the room when I visited, and I could never quite bring myself to tell them that the problem was all over the room. I took antihistamines before visiting, and put up with what I think was asthma.

[balf]

I note that you did not respond to my statement that I can't understand why you find one particular odour so much more offensive than any other and feel that you have more right than anyone else to decide which odours should be banned. Before I write any more let me say that I know there will be those who read it and respond that I don't have any rights as a newbie to be writing such a long and- some will think - lecturing post. To that I respond in advance. Yes, I am a newbie to this site, but not to the world any more than anyone else. I came onto the site with the express purpose of expressing my frustration with the new smoking policy of Cunard and seeing if there was anything that might be done about it. However last night I was quite upset by the character that the discussion took on this particular thread and I feel the need - and the right - to respond.

 

Being against smoking ( that is anti-smoking ) is perfectly alright. No more really needs to be said about that. But when it gets into the realms of objecting to how people smell when they enter a room, or an elevator we are taking it to a level of intolerance that has no health concerns to support it. This is a dangerous level. People often have distinctive odours. Below are just a few. I am making no qualitative ( good or bad ) judgement about them.

 

People from some countries consume a lot of garlic. They often smell of it.

 

People from other countries cook with lots of spices. They often smell of it.

 

People from still other countries fry bacon and onions quite a lot. These too are strong smells that linger.

 

Large groups of children and teenagers in an enclosed space have a quite distinctive smell. As a retired teacher I know this.

 

People who wear a lot of deodorant or perfume quite obviously have a certain odour.

 

People who don't wear deodorant or perfume also sometimes smell.

 

People who have pets sometimes carry the odours of their animals with them.

 

Fisherman famously can never get rid of the smell of fish on themselves.

 

And so on.

 

Who will be the next group to be ostracised merely on the basis of smell? Be careful it might be you.

 

Firstly, it makes no difference on these boards that you are a newby. Your posts are as valid, or not as any other.

 

Perhaps you could direct me to the post where I said that I find smoke offensive, or that I find it more so more so than any other from your long list.

 

As to my recommendation that you give up smoking (pack em in is the usual term where I come from) you are right to say you would prefer to get this advice from one more qualified. Have a chat with your GP.

 

And I hope that more like you will write to Cunard to complain as well as protesting here, though I think the suggestion by some posters that other factors could be at play may dissapoint.

 

David

[spobird]

My sister, a secondary teacher in Brisbane, would never let her own children wear trainers to school because of the smell that used to meet her in the classroom - a whole room full of teenagers with sweaty feet in trainers! :p

 

Spobird, just a little aside: you say you are allergic to cat hair. My specialist tells me that it is actually a protein in cat saliva that causes the problems. Because they continually groom themselves, you end up with the saliva (along with the cat hairs) all over the furniture, people's clothes, etc. Friends used to kindly shut their cats out of the room when I visited, and I could never quite bring myself to tell them that the problem was all over the room. I took antihistamines before visiting, and put up with what I think was asthma.

 

Hi Fantasy 51,

 

Yes, I just said cat hair for the sake of brevity. I used to be told that it was actually something called "cat dander' and now as you say they think it is in the saliva. And I agree the problem is all over any room in which there have been cats or someone with cat hair on them. So like you I just cope with it wherever I go and don't attempt to ban cats from anywhere but my own home. My best friends have 3 cats!

[spobird]

Firstly, it makes no difference on these boards that you are a newby. Your posts are as valid, or not as any other.

 

Perhaps you could direct me to the post where I said that I find smoke offensive, or that I find it more so more so than any other from your long list.

 

As to my recommendation that you give up smoking (pack em in is the usual term where I come from) you are right to say you would prefer to get this advice from one more qualified. Have a chat with your GP.

 

And I hope that more like you will write to Cunard to complain as well as protesting here, though I think the suggestion by some posters that other factors could be at play may dissapoint.

 

David

 

Thank you.

 

I did not intend to reply to any more posts about smoking generally but you seem like a nice, reasonable guy so I feel you deserve an answer to this. And a partial apology. You did not use the word offensive. However I believed that from the gists of posts 72 and 80 it was safe to accept that you did not like smoke or the smell of it. You said a friend had "subjected" you to it in post 80 and the final sentence of post 72 which is "But, smokers need to realise that what others experience re smoke is beyond their understanding." to me implies that this thing that is beyond our understanding is offensive, rather than pleasant. And as I explained... it is not beyond our understanding in fact. But I agree ( hence the apology ) that you never said you didn't find any other smells as offensive. This just seemed to be running throughout the thread. The rest of my post was directed at all those who have commented negatively about how people who smoke smell. Not just you.

 

As far as seeing my GP goes. I already have. I recently had a full check-up. All smoking related areas were clear. However something else was brought to light and it is felt that the stress of giving up smoking at this time would not in fact make me feel "so much better". I am not a particularly heavy smoker in any case. Please don't take this the wrong way but it is not always wise to so glibly give that kind of advice to someone whose personal health situation you know nothing about. But thank you for your concern.

 

And I think you are right that writing to Cunard will, sadly, not produce any results. I will do so nevertheless. Which brings us back to the true topic of the thread. I do feel that a comfortable centrally located smoking room, smoking allowed on some balconies, and/or only when at sea are all reasonable compromises. But I fear that the other factors of which you speak - and the more vociferous and uncompromising anti-smokers - will win over reasonable compromise.