MSC UK fares up to 167% those of US for Fremantle repo. Why?

[Skipper Tim]

I am a great fan of MSC repositioning cruises and when I heard that an MSC ship had been chartered for the 2015 Anzacs Gallipoli centenary cruise starting in Fremantle on 26th March this year, I was looking forward to the prospect of the preceding repositioning to Fremantle. Gradually details dripped out or were hacked and shared on this forum. The pictorial itinerary was one of the first leaks several months ago.

 

 

From the published regular MSC itineraries for Summer 2014, it was easy enough to work out that the repo to Fremantle would be 33 nights starting February 21st. This was added to the list in the MSC repos thread (almost 10,000 hits at the time of writing). Here is the list from the most recent update.

 

Repositioning Cruises start dates/ports by ship

MSC Opera, 7th October 2014, from Southampton to Cape Town, 21 nights

MSC Lirica, 26th October 2014 from Genoa to Santos, 20 nights [MSC AU]

MSC Preziosa, 8th November 2014, from Venice to Santos, 19 nights

MSC Magnifica, 8th November 2014, from Hamburg to Buenos Aires, 20 nights

MSC Armonia, 17th November 2014, (Italy to Durban, 19-21 nights, immediately after stretch & refit)

MSC Musica, 17th November 2014, from Genoa to Pointre-a-Pitre, Guadeloupe, 18 nights

MSC Poesia, 17th November 2014, from Genoa to Santos, 19 nights

MSC Orchestra, 25th November 2014, from Venice to Dubai, 18 nights

MSC Sinfonia, 27th November 2014, from Genoa (to Tenerife or Gran Canaria, 9-11 nights)

MSC Orchestra, 21st February, 2015, from Dubai to Fremantle, Australia, 33 nights

MSC Preziosa, 15th March 2015, from Santos to Genoa, 20 nights [MSC AU]

MSC Lirica, 23rd March 2015, from Rio de Janeiro to La Spezia, 20 nights [MSC AU]

MSC Opera, 28th March 2015, from Cape Town to Venice, 19 nights

MSC Poesia, 28th March 2015, from Santos to Venice, 18 nights

MSC Magnifica, 6th April 2015, from Buenos Aires to Venice, 21 nights

MSC Musica, 10th April 2015, from Pointe-A-Pitre, Guadeloupe to Venice, 20 nights [MSC AU]

MSC Armonia 27th April 2015, from Istanbul (to Venice, 3-4 nights or 1 night without passengers) [May be switched to MSC Opera]

 

Dry Dock

The MSC Lirica class will undergo a ‘renaissance’ stretching and refitting program as follows:

MSC Armonia (2004): August 31 to November 17 2014

MSC Sinfonia (2005): January 12 to March 16 2015

MSC Opera (2004): May 2 to July 4 2015

MSC Lirica (2003): August 31 to November 9 2015

 

Repositioning Cruise end date/port

MSC Armonia ending 18th April 2015 at Istanbul (for another ‘Gallipoli’ charter) (from Durban, 18-22 nights, or may be switched to another Lirica class ship from another port)

 

'Stationary’ Ships

MSC Divina, year-round Miami

MSC Fantasia, year-round Genoa/Venice

MSC Splendida, year-round Genoa

 

So back to the Dubai-Fremantle repo. Previous UK repo pricing had started at £25/£35/£45, inside/outside/balcony, per night before MSC Club discounts, without flights and, crucially, with zero solo-occupancy supplement. So I calculated the baseline price for a solo inside to be 33 x £25 = £825 before MSC Club discount.

 

Australian fares came out, South African and then U.S. all around the same and sky-high. I waited, as many of us did in the UK, for weeks before this cruise eventually went on sale in the UK - yesterday.

 

These are the UK fares, straight off the MSC UK website a few minutes ago, for solo occupancy, without flights, on the 'Bella experience'. 'Bella' is described in the email I received from MSC UK yesterday as "For those that want the cheapest price and are not particular that the cabin is on a low deck or obstructed views. No cabin choice."

 

 

As this itinerary is not listed on the MSC US website, I had obtained a quote from a US travel agent. This is their quote on the same terms (solo occupancy, no flights, no MSC Club discounts).

 

Inside for 1 Category I1 $4574.14

Ocean View for 1 Category O1 $5425.54

Balcony for 1 Category B2 $6230.50

 

Inside Senior for 1 Category I1 $4543.18

Ocean View Senior for 1 Category O1 $5394.58

Balcony Senior for 1 Category B2 $6199.54

 

Cruise only fare (no air.) Rates include port charges, taxes. Lower Rates may apply for Past Guest. Call for details. Our agency does not charge fees. Additional on board credit may apply for Platinum American Express card holders. To hold any room the deposit is $100 per person.

 

Ignoring the extra discounts for 'Seniors' and Amex card holders, I converted the fares into Sterling and compared.

 

 

I thought £2,804 was sky high compared to the expected £825 but £4,693 for the lowliest inside is mocking the long-suffering MSC fans. Yes, I thought there was a chance that this itinerary may come at a premium, at least when it first went on sale, but £4,693 compared to £825?

 

Putting that order of magnitude issue aside. Why is the fare in the UK 67.4% higher than the like-for-like US fare? i.e. The UK fare is 167% of the US fare, like-for-like!

 

There is a thread about MSC pulling out of the UK by 2015. I am starting to believe this is not just by removing all MSC ships from British shores. It appears to be also by increasing fares to the point that no British person, except the insane, would ever choose MSC above their numerous competition.

 

I love MSC but there are limits to my love.

 

Your thoughts? Is this goodbye to the UK?

 

Anyone in the UK thinking of booking this cruise anytime soon should definitely avoid UK fares.

 

Tim.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Skipper Tim

[The_Big_M]

Getting fares for 25GBP a night is pretty incredible!

 

Not sure that's a sustainable, or fair basis. I don't think the rest of the world got such prices either... Which just means sometimes yours is better, and sometimes yours isn't.

[anniegb]

Hi Tim

 

A couple of comments:

 

1.The £25 pp pn deal was never going to continue especially after the arrival of GH.

2. The US fares do not include the drinks and excursion packages.

3. As of last evening (UK time), a US TA advised me that 'US pricing had been temporarily withdrawn' for this cruise.

4. When I cruise with a US cruise line, for best pricing, I book with a US TA - nothing new there.

 

Annie

[sidari]

Tim ... It looks like MSC began this with the Magnifica sailings out of Hamburg begining in May some of them visit the UK including one to Liverpool.

 

It looks again as you say that MSC appear to be pricing to certain Nationalities.

[Daffydd]

If this is the future it is goodbye from 5 of us gold members soon to be black

David

Edited February 6, 2014 by Daffydd

[anniegb]

Tim ... It looks like MSC began this with the Magnifica sailings out of Hamburg begining in May some of them visit the UK including one to Liverpool.

 

It looks again as you say that MSC appear to be pricing to certain Nationalities.

 

That has always been the case - no?? nothing new there.

 

Fabulous pricing on MSC USA site currently and not just on the Divina.

 

I can actually understand the commercial logic of targeting the USA - much larger market.

 

OK give the US great fares but don't hammer us.

 

Annie

[The_Big_M]

 

It looks again as you say that MSC appear to be pricing to certain Nationalities.

 

Definitely if you are getting fares for 25GBP/night.

[sidari]

OK give the US great fares but don't hammer us.

 

annie .... have to agree with you there.

 

Big_M ... Those fare quoted by Tim were for repositioning cruises most cruise lines have lower fares on these type of cruises as you may well be aware.

 

It is time cruise lines leveled the playing field and allowed us here the same booking conditions as the USA in so far as not losing the deposit if you cancel at a certain time having blocked a cabin/s in some cases for more than 12 months.

[sidari]

Took a look at the page for this cruise, you are told to click on the date to book. Well what a surprise it will not let you book. Nothing changed with the website still, despite a promise from those in authority!

[Alex71]

I think it's old news that MSC differenciates the pricing by market and that it pays to compare different countries.

 

I don't think American prices are always lower though. The only pattern I can see is that American prices seem lower when booking very far ahead and then go up as the sailing date gets closer, whereas in some other markets MSC seems to start with higher prices and then lower them if the cruise does not sell out. This can be explained by the different cancellation policies where Americans can cancel or demand a price adjustments if prices are lowered, therefore making this option unprofitable for MSC in America.

 

Out of our last four cruises, we once found better prices (plus free water vouchers) through an American TA, whereas in the other three cases prices were higher than what we paid in Germany. Our Easter cruise would have been twice the price through an American TA.

 

Whether or not MSC is building goodwill among customers with this differenciated pricing is of course a completely different question. They don't seem to understand that in the internet age people can very quickly compare prices across markets and the cost of transantlantic phone calls is minimal.

[Skipper Tim]

Whether or not MSC is building goodwill among customers with this differenciated pricing is of course a completely different question. They don't seem to understand that in the internet age people can very quickly compare prices across markets and the cost of transantlantic phone calls is minimal.

 

Clearly MSC does not understand.

 

Instead of phoning around a few travel agents as we might have done 20 or 30 years ago, we now can check prices around the planet in around the same amount of time. Even when an overseas agent is not fully geared up for online bookings, there is still email and Skype.

 

Imagine the goodwill lost by customers discovering their cruise just booked with MSC could have been had at half the price by using an online travel agent placed by MSC in a different arbitrary segment of their market.

 

Giles Hawkes moment will come when next winter's UK fares, including those for the other repos, are revealed. I think on current evidence we can guess that they will be the highest ever as MSC has already anticipated their UK customers voting with their wallets by withdrawing all ships from the UK.

 

The Giles Hawkeses of this World come and go. We shall remain stoical but savvy.

 

Tim.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Skipper Tim

[Elmartellama]

MSC pricing policy has always been inconsistent and truly hard to understand. I don't think there is a anti-UK customers thing going on though.

 

I booked in July 2013 a cruise for June 2014 and right now it is 216% of the original price, so I can't complain. Had I booked a month later the price would had been nearly twice.

 

My advice with MSC is to set a target price for your cruise and when the rates are close to the target go for it. Of course this is a source of uncertainty and of course they lose customers by doing this. Maybe MSC is the only line offering curious Dubai to Australia repos, but for 95% of their itineraries the competition is fierce-full.

 

So set you're price, if they are close to it, go with them. If they are way out of market choose someone else, it will be their loss anyway.

 

I don't think booking cruises just the way you buy stocks is funny, but it might save you a lot of money.

Edited February 6, 2014 by Elmartellama

[Victor Joseph]

I see that Tim has the same problem i have, same cruise, same cabin, same dates, "two markets" and a completely different rate.

 

Well, for me this is in the edge of "legality". I understand that the market have their own laws and beign a layperson maybe i am wrong. But you see, their product, a specific cruise for example have a X cost, let's say 1.000 Euros for passengers. It is indifferent to where it will be sold cause the cost is the same. The ship will spend the same ammount of fuel, the same ammount of food, the same ammount of everything. So let's take a 100 % of profit. The fare should be 2.000 Euro per passenger. So, why the "Market A" will pay 2.000, the "Market B" 3.000 and the "Market C" 4.000?

 

My doubt consist in, if the cost of the product is the same, why their profit should be bigger in some specific markets? Well, you can say me whateaver you wants but i call discrimination, and discrimination is never a good thing.

 

In the end this is a kind of way to select "specific categories/nationalities/markets" to be on your ship. Of course as Tim says, for a bigger price, even that you can pay, you will choose a better company.

 

This makes me really mad with this company. In the last days, here in Brazil, a MSC Musica passenger that was in the transatlantic cruise shown to the media a horrific video. In the northeast coast of Brazil, around 2:00 am, MSC Musica was launching several bags of waste overboard.

 

 

I know that have nothing to do with the topic, but it's good to see how they respect and protect just one thing, the profit.

 

So MSC, don't come at me with the nice jingles, nice videos and beautiful ladies, smiling crew and "We respect our customers", at the end you are just one more dirty company...

[AmoMondo]

I think we were incredibly lucky in the UK to have the zero supplement on repos for 3 to 4 years and more recently the £25/35/45 deal.

 

My first repo with them in Dec 2005 came with a 100% supplement on both the cruise and fly part of the fare and cost 2300 for 19 nights in a balcony cabin. Last few years I've been doing similar lengths of repos for £900-1100. My biggest bargain to date is our infamous Armonia at £360 for 11 nights in a suite.

 

Some of the summer cruises are still broadly in line with last year with balcony cabins, solo occupancy for around £700 in the med.

 

I just hope the steep pricing for the Australian repo is because it's a unique sailing and not future policy. I suspect when they ever get around to selling the Autumn repos, they are going to be up on last year but hopefully not anything like the Freemantle one. Guess we'll find out soon enough. May have to start looking in to US TAs or switch to more on Costa.

[anniegb]

I think we were incredibly lucky in the UK to have the zero supplement on repos for 3 to 4 years and more recently the £25/35/45 deal.

 

My first repo with them in Dec 2005 came with a 100% supplement on both the cruise and fly part of the fare and cost 2300 for 19 nights in a balcony cabin. Last few years I've been doing similar lengths of repos for £900-1100. My biggest bargain to date is our infamous Armonia at £360 for 11 nights in a suite.

 

Some of the summer cruises are still broadly in line with last year with balcony cabins, solo occupancy for around £700 in the med.

 

I just hope the steep pricing for the Australian repo is because it's a unique sailing and not future policy. I suspect when they ever get around to selling the Autumn repos, they are going to be up on last year but hopefully not anything like the Freemantle one. Guess we'll find out soon enough. May have to start looking in to US TAs or switch to more on Costa.

 

Out of interest, I priced the Orchestra Venice-Dubai Nov 2014with a US TA and the solo balcony price was $3650.

 

Annie

[DutchBunny]

Prices on the Dutch website are:

 

Bella inside

€ 3.209 double use (£ 2.493)

€ 4.813,50 single use (£ 3.740)

Fantastica inside

€ 3.379 double use (£ 2.625)

€ 5.068,50 single use (£ 3.938)

Bella sea view

€ 3.539 double use (£ 2750)

€ 5.308,50 single use (£ 4.124)

Fantastica balcony

€ 4.039 double use (£ 3.138)

€ 6.058,50 single use (£ 4.707)

Aurea balcony

€ 4.539 double use (£ 3.526)

€ 6.808,50 single use (£ 5.289)

 

And the Dutch prices are including the drinks package and excursions.

[anniegb]

Prices on the Dutch website are:

 

Bella inside

€ 3.209 double use (£ 2.493)

€ 4.813,50 single use (£ 3.740)

Fantastica inside

€ 3.379 double use (£ 2.625)

€ 5.068,50 single use (£ 3.938)

Bella sea view

€ 3.539 double use (£ 2750)

€ 5.308,50 single use (£ 4.124)

Fantastica balcony

€ 4.039 double use (£ 3.138)

€ 6.058,50 single use (£ 4.707)

Aurea balcony

€ 4.539 double use (£ 3.526)

€ 6.808,50 single use (£ 5.289)

 

And the Dutch prices are including the drinks package and excursions.

 

Thanks very much Dutch Bunny. Very interesting numbers.

 

A European Travel Agent is listing this cruise as completely booked out - whether it is just their cabin allocation or the complete ship, I cannot tell.

 

Annie

[Elmartellama]

I see that Tim has the same problem i have, same cruise, same cabin, same dates, "two markets" and a completely different rate.

 

Well, for me this is in the edge of "legality". I understand that the market have their own laws and beign a layperson maybe i am wrong. But you see, their product, a specific cruise for example have a X cost, let's say 1.000 Euros for passengers. It is indifferent to where it will be sold cause the cost is the same. The ship will spend the same ammount of fuel, the same ammount of food, the same ammount of everything. So let's take a 100 % of profit. The fare should be 2.000 Euro per passenger. So, why the "Market A" will pay 2.000, the "Market B" 3.000 and the "Market C" 4.000?

 

My doubt consist in, if the cost of the product is the same, why their profit should be bigger in some specific markets? Well, you can say me whateaver you wants but i call discrimination, and discrimination is never a good thing.

 

Of course it is a discrimination, but is a very common one, in fact this technique is called price discrimination in Economic Theory and it has always been around. Any reduced price for a group of people (for example students or eldery people) is a price discrimination an totally legal.

 

For example, Apple and Google products are much cheaper in USD in the US than its converted value in Euros in Europe, and no one is scandalized by it.

[Skier52]

Here are the prices for the cruise from the UK web site.

The price also includes a drinks package and five excursions

There is also an offer a discounted laundry package.

At no time during my dummy booking could I make a choice for the experience ( Bella, Fantastica, Aurea)

 

 

 

 

Included in the price

 

 

 

 

 

Pete

Edited February 7, 2014 by Skier52

[The_Big_M]

Of course it is a discrimination, but is a very common one, in fact this technique is called price discrimination in Economic Theory and it has always been around. Any reduced price for a group of people (for example students or eldery people) is a price discrimination an totally legal.

 

For example, Apple and Google products are much cheaper in USD in the US than its converted value in Euros in Europe, and no one is scandalized by it.

 

Exactly. It's therefore something all the cruise lines do as far as I know, and certainly not unique to MSC.

 

Some you win, some you lose. Having those deals that the UK had for repositioning cruises would have been wonderful - I haven't seen anything like that either here or in the US. But that's life. They have a marketing budget and try to sell what will appeal to local folks, not set prices globally. Which I think some people wouldn't like either... I think many like getting those specials when they are offered locally to them.

[GrandyMandy]

Here are the prices for the cruise from the UK web site.

The price also includes a drinks package and five excursions

There is also an offer a discounted laundry package.

At no time during my dummy booking could I make a choice for the experience ( Bella, Fantastica, Aurea)

 

 

 

 

Included in the price

 

 

 

 

 

Pete

 

 

 

 

 

Malcolm - 4 x 32 vouchers = 128

 

Mandy - 4 x 32 vouchers = 128

 

Where are we going to keep 256 vouchers, I ask myself ???? :confused:

 

 

Can 3000 pax all get into the caves at the same time ? Will we have a royal procession of barges floating down the Yarra ? Hope the winery doesn't run out, before we get there ! Perhaps we can use some of our vouchers.

 

Has anyone thought of the logistics in all this, or will it be first come, first served ? The mind boggles.

Edited February 7, 2014 by GrandyMandy

[Skipper Tim]

Here are the prices for the cruise from the UK web site.

The price also includes a drinks package and five excursions

There is also an offer a discounted laundry package.

At no time during my dummy booking could I make a choice for the experience ( Bella, Fantastica, Aurea)

 

Pete

 

Those are the fares based on two people sharing one cabin. There is a 50% supplement on those fares across all categories for sole-occupancy. There has not been any solo supplement for a newly released MSC repo cruise for some years in the UK. For a solo repo fan like me, the three pricing measures - the uniqueness premium, an increase and the supplement - taken together represent an order of magnitude increase in cost per night.

 

Once you choose the category, you are taken to the page to choose the 'experience' and then cabin no. (despite the 'Bella' experience saying no choice of cabin). I tried this three in three separate sessions while I was thrashing out options and prices and the website behaviour was consistent.

 

As Elmartellama says, set your fare target and book if close. Consequently, I have written the Dubai-Fremantle repo off for now. If fares fall to a fraction near the sailing and I retain the flexibility to go, then I will reconsider. Now, all eyes on the other repos fares, not yet released in the UK.

 

Great things sometimes come to those who wait.

 

Tim.

Edited February 7, 2014 by Skipper Tim

[sidari]

Starting at £3,949 with Air and Transfer ... :eek:

 

Still no partial transit prices then.

[American Bear]

Could you not order the cruise from a TA in a country where the MSC price is less?

[Skipper Tim]

Could you not order the cruise from a TA in a country where the MSC price is less?

 

I refer you to this thread: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1985942

 

Particularly this quote from my US TA at the time.

 

NON-US/CANADIAN CLIENTS READ IMMEDIATELY:

The following cruise lines, CELEBRITY, COSTA, CUNARD, HOLLAND AMERICA, MSC, OCEANIA, PRINCESS, ROYAL CARIBBEAN, now prohibit all travel agencies located in the United States from selling cruises to citizens of countries other than the United States and Canada, UNLESS they have a residence in the U.S. or Canada. Also, your past passenger account / number must have a US address listed in the cruise line record. PLEASE BE ADVISED, if you do not meet these requirements, the cruise line and / or Cruises-N-More will cancel your booking and any penalties will be solely your responsibility, and Cruises-N-More will not bear any costs or responsibilities. When you booked this reservation, you checked (online bookings) you were a US or Canadian resident and / or citizen; or you gave your booking agent (phone bookings) a US or Canadian address. If you now have a residence in the US or Canada but your past passenger record at the cruise line does not, it is your responsibility to change it, or the cruise line will cancel your booking when they check your past passenger information against this reservation and have the right to assess a penalty.