Having a friend join the cruise for 1 night

[AmazedByCruising]

In fact, the reason so much liquor gets aboard is that the scanners are trained to look more for things that look like dangerous items than alcohol.

 

If the scanners at cruise terminals are smart enough to distinguish alcohol from explosives, airports should have those. After typing "TSA", Google suggests "TSA toothpaste", that's a level that probably never can be achieved on a ship.

 

After a excursion arriving late I got on the ship with without any scanning at all, which wouldn't happen on a plane.

 

Something else that seems strange to me (as the OP I hope to be allowed to divert a bit from the original subject :)). Normally, countries are very serious when you enter, but don't mind that much when you leave. While cruising, it's the complete opposite. Maybe because I only visited EU ports, but getting of the ship had no checks in any port, while getting on the ship varied from nothing (like the late excursion I mentioned) to a 45 minute waiting line, belts taken off, etc. Who's paying for the extensive ones to exit a country and why? And if the reasons I can think of (unions, etc) are actually true, why is entering a country that simple?

 

Yes, working everyday with ISPS has made my life much more complicated and a pain in the butt, but it does what it is intended to do, and restrict access to those that are accredited.

 

The real intention of ISPS, I hope, is to make cruising safer. The paperwork you are put up with to prevent unauthorized people from boarding may do a perfect job preventing guests without the proper stamps from boarding, but I'm not convinced that proper stamps can make cruising any safer.

 

While the Limburg happened out at sea, one of the reasons that armed USCG personnel board ships is to prevent the use of the ship itself as a terrorist weapon. Generally, two or three will stand watch in the Engine Control Room, and two or three will be on the bridge, while the ship is entering/leaving port. I can recall, even on a US flag tanker, with a US crew, as we approached the Golden Gate bridge, the "Sea Marshall" edged closer to the helmsman to ensure he didn't steer the ship into the bridge.

 

I don't think a terrorist will get his virgins by making extensive damage to a bridge.

[iheartbda]

I have NO idea what you mean when you quote me as saying "SO-friend".....:confused::confused::confused:

SO means significant other, as in partner, husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend, boyfriend/boyfriend, girlfriend/girlfriend, etc.:)

[Ashland]

SO means significant other, as in partner, husband/wife, boyfriend/girlfriend, boyfriend/boyfriend, girlfriend/girlfriend, etc.:)

 

Thanks for the definition, but I understand what "SO" means.

 

However my post didn't use this term at all....I merely said "your friend".... and why I questioned the OP about his misunderstanding the language of my post.

[chengkp75]

 

After a excursion arriving late I got on the ship with without any scanning at all, which wouldn't happen on a plane.

 

Something else that seems strange to me (as the OP I hope to be allowed to divert a bit from the original subject :)). Normally, countries are very serious when you enter, but don't mind that much when you leave. While cruising, it's the complete opposite. Maybe because I only visited EU ports, but getting of the ship had no checks in any port, while getting on the ship varied from nothing (like the late excursion I mentioned) to a 45 minute waiting line, belts taken off, etc. Who's paying for the extensive ones to exit a country and why? And if the reasons I can think of (unions, etc) are actually true, why is entering a country that simple?

 

 

 

The real intention of ISPS, I hope, is to make cruising safer. The paperwork you are put up with to prevent unauthorized people from boarding may do a perfect job preventing guests without the proper stamps from boarding, but I'm not convinced that proper stamps can make cruising any safer.

 

 

 

I don't think a terrorist will get his virgins by making extensive damage to a bridge.

 

Yes, ISPS is designed to make cruising safer, but the cruise industry is such a small part of the maritime industry, and ISPS applies to it all. The IMO makes the code that defines ship and port security, but leaves it to the individual countries to make the implementation laws, so they can vary from country to country, so long as they meet the minimum requirements and the intent of the code. ISPS requirements go far beyond requiring proper documentation, into how ships and ports provide security, security levels, and much more.

 

I'll use the US to describe how ISPS works for documentation, and then use that to answer some of your questions above. In the US, for anyone to enter a secure port area, and this includes ships' crews, port officials, dock workers, truck drivers, and even taxi drivers picking up crew members going ashore, must have a document called a TWIC (Transportation Workers Identification Credential). This document requires a full FBI background check in order to get one. Once you have a TWIC, you are granted access to various levels of the secured areas depending on your job and the area's use. You are not required to be escorted around, since the assumption is made that if you were going to be a security risk, this would have been noticed during the background check. To a lesser extent, this happens when you board a cruise ship. When you present your documents to the cruise line at embarkation (and again I'm using the US CBP example), the cruise line creates a passenger manifest that lists that documentation for each passenger. That manifest is presented to CBP prior to the ship's sailing, and CBP starts the passenger screening process then, and it continues through the cruise. If anyone trips a flag as being a security risk, they can notify the cruise line, and the country the ship is going to, to remove the passenger then. Otherwise, they can wait and detain the passenger at disembarkation. Check the threads here, and you will find experiences where someone was taken off during the disembarkation process for having outstanding warrants, etc.

 

Now, once you have been "screened", and I don't mean by security at the gangway, I mean by CBP, it is again assumed that any security risk would be identified, and therefore rescreening at each port does not need to be as rigorous. This is somewhat akin to not needing to be rescreened between flights at the airport.

 

At least in the US, the security at the cruise ship is not governmental, unlike at airports, it is done by the port authority (semi-governmental), and is not for entering or leaving the country, it is to see what is being brought onto the ship. Since the ship is paying for the security, they don't really care what you take off the ship, but in reality if they control what you bring on the ship (screening), they control what you take off. Again, airport screening is not to control what you bring into a country, it is what you bring on the airplane. It is assumed that if you bring a weapon on a plane or ship, the place you intend to use it is that plane or ship. Once in a country, you can get anything you want, for a price, so airport and port screening is not for that purpose.

 

Can things get past the ISPS rules? Sure. Can things get by airport screening? We see it happen all the time. Can the bad guys learn the rules and use them against us? Sure. But without the ISPS and TSA, it would be that much simpler for them.

 

In the '70's and '80's, could you have brought a guest onboard? Probably, and you could bring a howitzer onboard a plane. Unfortunately, since 9-11 the world has changed, and that is just a fact of life in today's world.

 

And terrorists "win" by attacking symbols. Was 9-11 about killing Americans or attacking the symbols of America. The Golden Gate bridge is an iconic symbol of America.

[AmazedByCruising]

Thank you chengkp75 very much for yet another elaborate answer. I'm learning a lot here :)