Carnival to add 9 new ships

[jimbo5544]

The Fascination was actually sailing out of San Juan 20 years ago, taking over that route from the Tropicale. At the time they were charging $1600 for an outside room. A year later that fate had been already cut in half. At the time, it was calling in Caracas Venezuela South America, as well as Grenada, Guadeloupe, and of corse Aruba.

 

 

lol, I doubt they will be be selling for that now. It will be interesting to watch and see how it goes

[Jay Sam]

it also says they will be removing 4

 

Just wondering about them removing 4 ships. Where is that info' please?

[Cuizer2]

I read that both Europe and Asia will get some of the new ships.

 

"Carnival said the new ships are expected to serve established cruise markets in North America and Europe, as well as newer markets, including China. Other brands owned by Carnival Corp. include Italy-based Costa Cruises, which is growing rapidly in China as well as Europe; German line Aida Cruises; UK-based P&O Cruises and Cunard Line; Australia-based P&O Cruises Australia; and luxury line Seabourn."

[jimbo5544]

Just wondering about them removing 4 ships. Where is that info' please?

 

It is actually in a couple of places. I posted another thread about the same time as this one. If you go sea trade insider you can find the reference. It dod not however, say the four ships leaving service were from which of the nine cruise lines.

[Cuizer2]

It is easy to figure out how many of the nine ships will go to Carnival Cruise Line. The article says Carnival Corp has 101 ships. Carnival Cruise Line has 24 ships (not counting Vista yet). 23 ÷ 101 = 22.77%. 22.77% x 9 = 2. So Carnival Cruise Line will get two of the ships. :)

[LSSaqua]

Wow interesting

[yamsi12]

It's 9 ships over 8 brands, so 1 line is getting 2.

 

I wonder if the Splendor will go to Costa.

 

I hope not, that's my favorite ship

[EZ4]

It is easy to figure out how many of the nine ships will go to Carnival Cruise Line. The article says Carnival Corp has 101 ships. Carnival Cruise Line has 24 ships (not counting Vista yet). 23 ÷ 101 = 22.77%. 22.77% x 9 = 2. So Carnival Cruise Line will get two of the ships. :)

 

CCL currently has 2 ships on order, not including this newly announced order. JH mentioned that the order was split amongst 8 Carnival Corp lines, and we know that Costa is getting a pair of 175,000 tonners. If CCL gets 2 ships, that means someone else isn't getting one. Want to recalculate now?

[iconoclast]

CCL currently has 2 ships on order, not including this newly announced order. JH mentioned that the order was split amongst 8 Carnival Corp lines, and we know that Costa is getting a pair of 175,000 tonners. If CCL gets 2 ships, that means someone else isn't getting one. Want to recalculate now?

 

Two ships on order, at least one more on the drawing board, eight more distributed around the fleet. Still don't understand why you think this is a "scale back" since they just committed many billions of dollars to new builds with no real market for the ones they are trying to unload. It seems to me like full steam ahead.

[iconoclast]

Also, the cruise market in the United States will not sustain many more mega-ships. I think the future will be towards smaller ships that can enter ports like Baltimore, Tampa, etc. that are smaller markets that feed towards local ships. This is a profitable segment and why Carnival still updates its Fantasy Class for these markets. I'd like to see Carnival build a new sort of Spirit class that can more easily serve these smaller markets but travel at great speeds.

[EZ4]

Two ships on order, at least one more on the drawing board, eight more distributed around the fleet. Still don't understand why you think this is a "scale back" since they just committed many billions of dollars to new builds with no real market for the ones they are trying to unload. It seems to me like full steam ahead.

 

Remember that we're talking spread out over a 9 year period. That's not a whole lotta ships, traditionally. In the past, CCL was introducing a new ship nearly every year. Compared to, yeah, it's a scale back. Especially when their nearest competition are both in building booms, upgrading and reducing the average age of their fleets.

 

This is purely my speculation, but I think the NA market is going to go stagnant and be somewhat neglected, at least in the short term, as everyone transitions to the Asian market and jockeys for position. I think the Caribbean market has peaked, and Carnival finds itself overbuilt for the market there.

[iconoclast]

Remember that we're talking spread out over a 9 year period. That's not a whole lotta ships, traditionally. In the past, CCL was introducing a new ship nearly every year. Compared to, yeah, it's a scale back. Especially when their nearest competition are both in building booms, upgrading and reducing the average age of their fleets.

 

This is purely my speculation, but I think the NA market is going to go stagnant and be somewhat neglected, at least in the short term, as everyone transitions to the Asian market and jockeys for position. I think the Caribbean market has peaked, and Carnival finds itself overbuilt for the market there.

 

Carnival Corp. PLC owns 50% of the world cruise market through various subsidiaries. Compared to "yeah". I haven't sailed "Yeah Cruise Lines"

[EZ4]

Carnival Corp. PLC owns 50% of the world cruise market through various subsidiaries. Compared to "yeah". I haven't sailed "Yeah Cruise Lines"

 

And yet RCI and NCL alone, have as many newbuilds on order as all of the combined Carnival Corp family of cruise lines, until this new order was announced. And remember that this new Carnival order spans the next 9 years. These ships won't be coming on line anytime soon. That's a long time to operate and only be getting one or two new ships per line.

[cruisin2015]

Taken in context, it really isn't aggressive. This is an average of one ship per line, spread over the next 8-9 years. In comparison, NCL has 4 ships on order for delivery over the next 4 years. RCI had 5, but just took delivery of Quantum. MSC has 4 ships. Viking Ocean has 4 ships. Mein Schiff has 3, and just took delivery of one.

 

Granted, half of Carnival Corps lines have ships currently on order that aren't included in that nine ship order. Aida has 2, Carnival has 2, HAL has 2, Princess has 1 and Seabourn has 2, which is another 9 spread over all of their lines within the next 3-4 years.

 

This new order actually looks like a scale back, while other lines are forging ahead. Hardly aggressive.

 

I never thought of it this way. Thank you for sharing your perspective.

 

Do you think it would be possible for Carnival to get the 175,000 ton vessel too like Costa is supposedly going to get?

[iconoclast]

And yet RCI and NCL alone, have as many newbuilds on order as all of the combined Carnival Corp family of cruise lines, until this new order was announced. And remember that this new Carnival order spans the next 9 years. These ships won't be coming on line anytime soon. That's a long time to operate and only be getting one or two new ships per line.

 

Perhaps when you control fifty percent of a world market it's not so essential to try to outpace your competitors? By your own admission all of Carnival's competitors have as many ships on order as one corporation. I fail to see the negative or cutback here.

[Jay Sam]

Perhaps when you control fifty percent of a world market it's not so essential to try to outpace your competitors? By your own admission all of Carnival's competitors have as many ships on order as one corporation. I fail to see the negative or cutback here.

 

Well said. I so agree with you.

[EZ4]

By your own admission all of Carnival's competitors have as many ships on order as one corporation. I fail to see the negative or cutback here.

 

You realize that it's just 2 cruise lines that have as many ships ordered as all of Carnival Corp lines combined?

 

We'll just disagree and leave it at that. ;)

[Cuizer2]

CCL currently has 2 ships on order, not including this newly announced order. JH mentioned that the order was split amongst 8 Carnival Corp lines, and we know that Costa is getting a pair of 175,000 tonners. If CCL gets 2 ships, that means someone else isn't getting one. Want to recalculate now?

 

I double checked my math. It is correct. :)

[EZ4]

I double checked my math. It is correct. :)

 

Looked common coreish with a little voodoo math sprinkled in for good measure, to me. LOL

[Cuizer2]

Looked common coreish with a little voodoo math sprinkled in for good measure, to me. LOL

 

Its called "new math". :eek:

[EZ4]

Its called "new math". :eek:

 

Back in the day 2+2=4. Now it's more like "how does 2+2 make you feel?" :D

[jimbo5544]

You realize that it's just 2 cruise lines that have as many ships ordered as all of Carnival Corp lines combined?

 

We'll just disagree and leave it at that. ;)

This is true, but the other side of the equation is how many ships do they have in total?

[EZ4]

This is true, but the other side of the equation is how many ships do they have in total?

 

True too, but clearly the other lines are on a more aggresive expansion trajectory, than any of the Carnival Corp lines.

 

What's unknown here is what Carnival Corp has up their sleeve for China. They may just scream out of the gate with a China exclusive line with a whole fleet of new Chinese built ships. They haven't shown their Chinese market plans nearly as much as RCI has.

 

I still think this order looks a little tentative, and China might be the reason.

[jimbo5544]

True too, but clearly the other lines are on a more aggresive expansion trajectory, than any of the Carnival Corp lines.

 

What's unknown here is what Carnival Corp has up their sleeve for China. They may just scream out of the gate with a China exclusive line with a whole fleet of new Chinese built ships. They haven't shown their Chinese market plans nearly as much as RCI has.

 

I still think this order looks a little tentative, and China might be the reason.

 

I really don't think the "China Syndrome" will be known for a good while (even if is even known yet). Carnival has taken a conservative stance, true, but that is the way they have played the "building game" for some time. The real question for the other two is how much in hock they are willing to go. Heaven help them if the other new players enter the higher end market and start kicking their butts.

[Jimmy Geegitz]

Would love it if they dumped the Splendor. Not our favorite ship.