Diving in St. Maarten - Royal Cruise Line June 26th, 2016

[Jelorian]

I'll be going on my first cruise starting June 26th on the Allure of the Seas. Our first stop will be St. Maarten. I'm debating on signing up for the ship's scuba excursion or just trying to line something up on my own.

 

Any suggestions for me?

[Capt_BJ]

how experienced are you?

 

How many open water deep dives do you have?

[Jelorian]

how experienced are you?

 

How many open water deep dives do you have?

 

I'm still a very new diver with not very many dives at this point. Just 17.

 

I just did 10 dives in the Philippines last April and also got my Advanced PADI certification while I was there, but by no means do I feel that I'm advanced in any way other than knowing what was in the books and practicing them on the dives.

Edited June 7, 2016 by Jelorian

[omeinv]

I've used Octopus Divers in St. Maarten. I found them to be a good operator. When I was there last, their only location was on the French side, some distance from the port. However, they've since opened a second operation at the port. I think if you explain your level of experience they'd be able to help you out.

 

I pretty much always advise against using the ship's excursions. While they tend to select sites suitable for the newest of divers, they also tend to run large groups, and do what it takes to recover a profit after they've given up a big chunk of the money you paid to the cruise line. In other words, you've paid more than a private dive, they've made less than the private operator would have. They can't afford to give you the experience commensurate with what you've paid. How do they do it? Volume! Lots of divers, herded along simple dives.

 

Harris

Denver, CO

[Capt_BJ]

last time I booked a dive in St M using the cruiseline excursion

 

there were 5 divers .... and everyone had brought their own equipment suggesting a wee bit of experience ... with 5 divers on the boat we all got more than enuf attention ...

 

And I don't know what a 'simple dive' is ..... I do know that depth does not necessarily equal quality

 

just sayin' that generalizations ain't facts

[Jelorian]

I've used Octopus Divers in St. Maarten. I found them to be a good operator. When I was there last, their only location was on the French side, some distance from the port. However, they've since opened a second operation at the port. I think if you explain your level of experience they'd be able to help you out.

 

I pretty much always advise against using the ship's excursions. While they tend to select sites suitable for the newest of divers, they also tend to run large groups, and do what it takes to recover a profit after they've given up a big chunk of the money you paid to the cruise line. In other words, you've paid more than a private dive, they've made less than the private operator would have. They can't afford to give you the experience commensurate with what you've paid. How do they do it? Volume! Lots of divers, herded along simple dives.

 

Harris

Denver, CO

 

I reached out the Octopus and got a reply back. I might work with them on lining up a few dives. They are very aware of the time limitation of divers coming from the cruise ships. They also have some very good reviews online on Yelp and tripadvisor.

 

Thanks for your advice.

 

last time I booked a dive in St M using the cruiseline excursion

 

there were 5 divers .... and everyone had brought their own equipment suggesting a wee bit of experience ... with 5 divers on the boat we all got more than enuf attention ...

 

And I don't know what a 'simple dive' is ..... I do know that depth does not necessarily equal quality

 

just sayin' that generalizations ain't facts

 

I would imagine that being on one of the largest cruise ships that there will be more than 5 divers wanting to go diving in St. Maarten. Then again I could be wrong.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by 'simple dive' or "depth does not necessarily equal quality". I don't recall that being stated anywhere on this thread.

 

Being that I will be needing to rent almost all of the gear needed, I'll probably make arrangements to go with a local dive shop. I'm only bringing a mask and wetsuit (I do have fins but they are big and heavy...leaving them at home) as that's all I own at this point.

 

The price difference between having your own gear and renting on the ship's excursion was only $10 though.

 

Thanks for your input. Will take everything into consideration.

 

As an aside, my father was in the USCG. He retired as an E-8 in 1985 and his last duty station was Honolulu, HI.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Jelorian

[Capt_BJ]

"They can't afford to give you the experience commensurate with what you've paid. How do they do it? Volume! Lots of divers, herded along simple dives. "

 

You have CG history ... then you know we are somewhat interested in safety .....

 

I worked "big" cutters in the Carib' for many years .... this brought me to St M' many times, and diving is my R&R treat (being Captain it is easy to carry my gear) ... and being a sick person, when off duty I would cruise the Carib' AND take dedicated dive trips as well. I've been with the privates my ship agent set me up with and the cruise ship excursions and only tried to debunk the 'cruise excursion sucks' myth.

 

Enjoy your trip . . .

Edited June 9, 2016 by Capt_BJ

[Jelorian]

"They can't afford to give you the experience commensurate with what you've paid. How do they do it? Volume! Lots of divers, herded along simple dives. "

 

You have CG history ... then you know we are somewhat interested in safety .....

 

I worked "big" cutters in the Carib' for many years .... this brought me to St M' many times, and diving is my R&R treat (being Captain it is easy to carry my gear) ... and being a sick person, when off duty I would cruise the Carib' AND take dedicated dive trips as well. I've been with the privates my ship agent set me up with and the cruise ship excursions and only tried to debunk the 'cruise excursion sucks' myth.

 

Enjoy your trip . . .

 

Must have glossed over that portion...thanks for pointing it out.

 

Also thanks for your insight on the cruise ship excursions. I try to keep an open mind about all the options I have and try to choose the one that will give me the most bang for the buck as well as flexibility and quality. I hate being pressed for time by being on the constraints of the ship leaving the port.

 

Looking forward to my first cruise, but also looking forward to the dives. Although I got into diving fairly late in my life, I want to get as many in now while I'm still healthy.

 

Cheers Capt!

 

Jel

[smokinmike]

If I had to use a cruise ship's dive excursion, I would rather not dive at all.

 

. . . but that's just me.

[omeinv]

I should clarify obviously.

 

I have dove with the ship's excursions in a number of ports, and more with privately arranged excursions. I have had great experiences with both, and have had disappointing experiences with both.

 

All else being equal, I find the privately arranged excursions to offer more for you money. However, they require more effort on the front end. It's up to you to contact the operator in advance, and make clear what you'd like to do, and explain your level of experience. If you do those things, and if the operator honestly responds with an appropriate product; your investment of time and effort yields a more personalized diving day.

 

As with any cruise ship excursion, when you dive with a ship's excursion, you're reasonable if you expect a vetted operator who will provide a satisfactory experience. However, it will be designed for the "typical" diver, with that skewed - for safety's sake - toward the newer diver or the diver with some time out of the sport.

 

I've had only one instance where a cruise ship excursion dive was truly unsatisfactory, and that was in Cabo San Lucas. Eventually the cruise line did resolve my concern. However, in hindsight, had I arranged the diving myself, I would have not used that operator based on the first hurdle which would be the reviews of prior customers. Since with a cruise excursion you often don't know who the vendor is, it's hard to do the research. That experience helped to shape my bias away from ship's excursions. However, in most Caribbean ports it's pretty well-known who the ship's excursion's operators are, and how the specific ones in a port perform.

 

The other issue I still maintain is valid is that you pay more, but the operator nets less when it's the ship's excursion. That squeeze puts the ship's operator in a tough spot, where their margin is tight. The result can be that you're diving the easiest spots for them to get to, and to get you in and out of the water, quickly and with the minimum hassle for the operator. If Dive site A is OK and five minutes from the dock, you're not going to Dive site B that's superior but 20 minutes away. That's what I meant by "simple".

 

Anyway, in St. Maarten, Octopus Diving has earned my recommendation, although I'm curious to hear if their new operation at the port is providing as nice an experience as the Grand Case (French Side) one did when I was last there.

 

And the last thing I meant to do is come across the way I did - as if I was belittling anyone, and certainly not Capt BJ, since we often post on the same threads, and I always find his insights valuable. I apologize for leaving that impression.

 

The good news is, it's tough to find anyplace in the Caribbean the diving isn't good. :)

 

Harris

Denver, CO

Edited June 10, 2016 by omeinv

[smokinmike]

Expanding upon my previous comment - there is a growing movement among cruise ship dive excursions that prohibit divers who are over the age of 60 from participating in ship sponsored dive opportunities. No reason is given but the fear of financial exposure must be the reason. The dive ops that the cruise lines contract with don't normally themselves have this ban.

[booknerd2011]

We used octopus diving on a carnival cruise last September. Very good experience. They were the contracted company for the excursion. We are hitting St Maarten in 2017 and have already reserved with octopus.

[Jelorian]

Expanding upon my previous comment - there is a growing movement among cruise ship dive excursions that prohibit divers who are over the age of 60 from participating in ship sponsored dive opportunities. No reason is given but the fear of financial exposure must be the reason. The dive ops that the cruise lines contract with don't normally themselves have this ban.

 

First I've heard of this. Interesting nonetheless. I've still a ways to go before I get to 60 but I hope that I don't have that issue when I do.

 

I should clarify obviously.

 

I have dove with the ship's excursions in a number of ports, and more with privately arranged excursions. I have had great experiences with both, and have had disappointing experiences with both.

 

All else being equal, I find the privately arranged excursions to offer more for you money. However, they require more effort on the front end. It's up to you to contact the operator in advance, and make clear what you'd like to do, and explain your level of experience. If you do those things, and if the operator honestly responds with an appropriate product; your investment of time and effort yields a more personalized diving day.

 

As with any cruise ship excursion, when you dive with a ship's excursion, you're reasonable if you expect a vetted operator who will provide a satisfactory experience. However, it will be designed for the "typical" diver, with that skewed - for safety's sake - toward the newer diver or the diver with some time out of the sport.

 

I've had only one instance where a cruise ship excursion dive was truly unsatisfactory, and that was in Cabo San Lucas. Eventually the cruise line did resolve my concern. However, in hindsight, had I arranged the diving myself, I would have not used that operator based on the first hurdle which would be the reviews of prior customers. Since with a cruise excursion you often don't know who the vendor is, it's hard to do the research. That experience helped to shape my bias away from ship's excursions. However, in most Caribbean ports it's pretty well-known who the ship's excursion's operators are, and how the specific ones in a port perform.

 

The other issue I still maintain is valid is that you pay more, but the operator nets less when it's the ship's excursion. That squeeze puts the ship's operator in a tough spot, where their margin is tight. The result can be that you're diving the easiest spots for them to get to, and to get you in and out of the water, quickly and with the minimum hassle for the operator. If Dive site A is OK and five minutes from the dock, you're not going to Dive site B that's superior but 20 minutes away. That's what I meant by "simple".

 

Anyway, in St. Maarten, Octopus Diving has earned my recommendation, although I'm curious to hear if their new operation at the port is providing as nice an experience as the Grand Case (French Side) one did when I was last there.

 

And the last thing I meant to do is come across the way I did - as if I was belittling anyone, and certainly not Capt BJ, since we often post on the same threads, and I always find his insights valuable. I apologize for leaving that impression.

 

The good news is, it's tough to find anyplace in the Caribbean the diving isn't good. :)

 

Harris

Denver, CO

 

Harris, thank you for taking the time to write up this reply. I do appreciate it very much. This is exactly the type of info on 1st hand experiences I was looking for. Cheers!

[Jelorian]

We used octopus diving on a carnival cruise last September. Very good experience. They were the contracted company for the excursion. We are hitting St Maarten in 2017 and have already reserved with octopus.

 

booknerd, did you go to the French side or did you use their outfit closer to the port?

 

I got a reply back from them and I'm leaning towards diving with them due to the high praise for them on some review sites.

 

Thanks!

[booknerd2011]

We were pretty close to the port. We have a cruise in February and booked with them again. Sorry I just saw this. Wondering how your experience was?

[Jelorian]

We were pretty close to the port. We have a cruise in February and booked with them again. Sorry I just saw this. Wondering how your experience was?

 

Just got back this morning from the June 26th-July 3rd cruise. We spent a few extra days in Ft. Lauderdale.

 

I did go diving with Octopus and I had a great time with them. Snorkeling with them, at least to the location they brought us, wasn't all that great if you were expecting to see a lot of sea life. If you wanted to see sunken wrecks then I guess it was ok, but they were pretty deep for snorkelers.

 

I did a 2 tank dive from the Phillipsburg side of the island. There were 5 other divers with my group and 1 dive instructor. 4 of us were from the cruise and the other 3 were people vacationing in St. Maarten.

 

The waters heading out to the dive spots were a bit rough and by the time we got to the first location, several of the group were "chumming" the water with whatever they ate for breakfast.

 

Our first dive was a wreck dive at about 60ft/20m where we saw a turtle, several sharks and a bunch of fish just hanging around the wreck. We did get to penetrate the wreck which was very cool.

 

The second dive we went to a place called Mazes. It was also very cool with the rock/coral formations making a bunch of passageways and caves to go through.

 

Water temperature was 82 so I just went with swim trunks and a long sleeve rash guard.

 

The water at the surface was pretty rough with 2-4ft swells. Myself and another diver got our shins bashed up pretty good trying to climb the ladder while the boat is pitching up and down. The currents were pretty strong as well.

 

Our dive instructor, Evelyn, was very nice and so was the captain of the boat, Vilhelm.

 

In the afternoon, I was joined by my family and friends for a snorkeling trip. The area we went to was where they do SNUBA an so there is a sunken submarine, a yacht, and a helicopter. Not much else to see other than some fish, a few cuttlefish, and sea urchins. But over all everyone had a good time.

 

After the dive, Vilhelm brought us a round of beers which was oh so very refreshing.

 

I would definitely dive with them again, but I could do without the rough seas heading out to the dive locations...hahaha.

 

I guess I'm spoiled by diving in the Philippines where the water is much more calm and there seems to be more aquatic life to see.

 

Cheers!

[omeinv]

Thanks for that follow up. Good to hear Octopus' Phillipsburg operation sounds like it's well run as their French side (Grand Case) location.

 

Harris

Denver, CO

[compozer]

Expanding upon my previous comment - there is a growing movement among cruise ship dive excursions that prohibit divers who are over the age of 60 from participating in ship sponsored dive opportunities. No reason is given but the fear of financial exposure must be the reason. The dive ops that the cruise lines contract with don't normally themselves have this ban.

 

I have never experienced this. I'm 67 and no one has questioned my age on any ship sponsored dive or any dive.

 

I try to use private operators. On our last cruise, I ended up booking with the ship in Honduras, I wanted to use Anthony's Key and when I called them, I was told we had to book through the cruise line.