Here come the Americans!!!

[McDebbie]

After reading all of this I'm glad that our first cruise will be with the Hogs on the High Seas. We'll be with 1200+ motorcycle enthusiasts and the ship has even changed formal night for us....leather required! Jeans and t-shirts recommended for all other dining! Bet that would set those Brits on their arses!:D

 

That sounds like a wonderful cruise, when and what ship?

I had no idea jeans were not appropriate casual wear in Europe, will keep that in mind. Luckily my next cruise will be the Canada/NE and I expect I will be one of the many fat butts in jeans. ;)

[greatam]

This thread has disintegrated into bashing every nationality, everyone's manners, etc. And has taken on politics, world food aid, pollution, capitalism and who knows what else.

 

My original post was meant sincerely. When the Americans boarded in NYC, they truly changed the tone of the ship. I was NOT the only one who noticed this. Most of the CC'ers (30 out of 40 were Americans) who had been on the transatlantic commented on it. So it was NOT just the Brits who noticed.

 

The QE2 is one of the MOST formal ships around. Much more formal than the QM2. The cheapest cabin for the world cruise is about $36,000 for 2. Not your average cruise price. And NOT your average cruise. There are NO casual nights. Informal-coat and tie required is the minimum in ANY dining room. You cannot have dinner in the LIDO to avoid the dress code. Just isn't done. 4 formal nights in a 6 night crossing. And formal is truly formal, with about 90% of the men in tuxes and 95% of the women in long gowns. I would bet there was well over $2,000,000 worth of jewelry on display the first formal night.

 

It was truly amazing to me to see women embark in NYC with $50,000 worth of diamonds, $20,000 fur coats, Kate Spade bags, Prada shoes, and the cheapest, most unflattering JEANS you could possibly imagine. And before someone goes on a rant about MONEY, the money spent on clothes is NOT the issue. It truly was the impropriety of it all.

 

As Kathy so eloquently stated, fat butts do not need to be on display, as the ones which stood out were. We are all fashion saavy enough to cover up the flaws. But the disrespect of the American couples showing up in JEANS and polos for informal night brought out the comments from the Brits. And I truly can't blame them. If I paid that kind of money for an elegant ship with VERY elegant dining, I also don't want to sit with people who flaunt the "it's my vacation and I'll do what I want" attitude with their clothes. And let's not get into the money thing again-WalMart's White Stag line of casual clothes were more than suitable for any DAY on the ship. But definitely NOT appropriate for informal night.

 

Just an aside-the hardcore bashing started with a post by a (just my guess) 20 something, college boy, looking for "hotties", who also was willing to swing both ways. TRASHIEEURO as a screen name kind of says it all. Do a search and look at the posts, which coincidentally started just this week. Let's see-tongue piercings and beaver coats, attention lesbians, want someone legal, rich and hot, thought I would wear all leather, High Tea on the QE 2 is as boring as women's golf.

 

I'm outta here. Flame on!!!

[brandypants]

I sincerely hope to God I never will have to vacation with some of you people. Was the cruise and your company that boring? Did seeing people dressed like "American Slobs" really hurt you in any way? Come on!! Get off your high horse and get a life! Enjoy your vacation...life is short!

[banditmag]

Okay, I find this post amusing and must throw in my two cents. First, as I tell my dd there are good Americans and "ugly" Americans, there are good French people and "Ugly" French people, there are good Asian people and "ugly" Asian people. Making a blanket decision regarding any race is a mistake.

 

We were on a 10 day cruise over Christmas and I found the Europeons to be the rudest people I ever encountered AND many did not follow the dress code, Brits excluded. A family of 12 from Spain never wore anything but jeans or shorts to the dining room. A family from France complied maybe 3 nights out of ten and allowed their toddler to scream, throw food, and run around ruining dinner for the other diners. A gentleman (and I use the term usely) literally knocked my DD down while cutting in front of everyone in the Tender Line. Finally, a couple from France cut in front of several hundred people who were in line for a show and claimed not to speak english when people questioned her. When the doors open she took off running like a sprinter in the Olympics nearly causing a domino effect among everyone else. For someone who doesn't speak English she certainly communicated her drink order to the waitstaff very well, all in English. I won't even bring up the Asians and there need to knock people out of the way to get the perfect picture. I did experience a few rude people from my own country but nowhere near as many as from Europe. As a matter of fact when we got home I commented to many friends that people may call us "ugly" Americans but from my experience on that trip Americans are the most polite group around.

 

That being said, money or proper dress doesn't mean someone has class. I would much rather spend my time with polite Americans in jeans that "ugly" Europeons and Asians in Hermes scarves.

[crucero-amante]

Some people have a mouth bigger than their butt!:confused:

 

I was going to just read and read and read but I finally decided that I wanted to say a few things.

 

I am ashamed of the content of the original post. I just can't seem to get to where this person is coming from. I have traveled quite a bit in my life and I have to say that not once have I ever thought to say or think the things that I read in the OP and the follow up posts.

Personally for me I would much rather be known as poor big butt slob with a compassionate heart than to be known as a pretentious snob with no natural affection.Main Entry: pre·ten·tious

Pronunciation: pri-'ten(t)-sh&s

Function: adjective

Etymology: French prétentieux, from prétention pretension, from Medieval Latin praetention-, praetentio, from Latin praetendere

1 : characterized by pretension : as a : making usually unjustified or excessive claims (as of value or standing) <the pretentious fraud who assumes a love of culture that is alien to him -- Richard Watts> b : expressive of affected, unwarranted, or exaggerated importance, worth, or stature <pretentious language> <pretentious houses>

2 : making demands on one's skill, ability, or means : AMBITIOUS <the pretentious daring of the Green Mountain Boys in crossing the lake -- Amer. Guide Series: Vt.>

synonym see SHOWY

- pre·ten·tious·ly adverb

- pre·ten·tious·ness noun

I would like to think that with times the way they are more people would be interested in finding common interests than trying to cause division. We are all the same it does not matter what part of the world we are from. We all have the same destiny and it won't matter whether one has a big butt but it will matter if one has a big heart that is good towards all.

 

 

[CruiserBruiser]

I'm with trashieeuro on this one. What a bunch of pretentiousness on this post, not to mention pure meanness. The OP clearly has a complex about fat people. I'm well aware of her kind as I'm a plus-sized woman myself. There's nothing that shows a lack of class more than someone who comments of another's personal, physical characteristics. I bet if Angelina Jolie were wearing a pair of jeans of the same make some of these fat people were wearing, the OP would declare them da bomb and rush out a buy a pair right away.

 

I also just returned from the 16-day Holiday cruise on the QE2. The clientele was 80% British and about 5% American, with slightly more Germans than us Yanks. I'm in my mid-thirties and traveled with my parents. I had some lovely day clothes, but I did wear my jeans on port days. They are very comfortable, which was important to me. I dressed approriately for dinner and on days at sea I had nice slacks with sweater tops for the afternoons. I wore my jogging suit for taking laps around the boat deck and usually changed into day clothes after breakfast in the Lido. The comments on this post and others about how dressy the QE2 crowd is makes me question whether any of you have ever sailed on her. The crowd was 80% over 70 years of age, not exactly a generation that wears jeans (wether Wal Mart or Calvin Klein). They wore cotton pants, dockers, slacks, and polo shirts, sweaters, or blouses. Nothing fancy, just what all 70 year olds wear for the most part during the day.

 

No Americans were ugly or rude. On that point, I'd like to make it clear that in terms of manners, it's surprising how mannerly Americans actually are. My parents are European and moved back to northern Europe last year to retire. My mother is always commenting on how rude her countrymen are, especially the younger generations, the ones that came after the oil was discovered. Many Europeans I encountered are rude, pushy, and unfriendly. Americans in general are friendly, outgoing, and polite. We say "please," thank you", and "excuse me" when we've bumped into someone on the subway or street, whereas all those elegant Europeans tend to brush past you and ignore you. We smile when we walk and say "Good morning" when we're strolling in the park and pass a single person or couple. Europeans don't for the most part. They even have trouble responding to a "good morning." I think they've forgotten how. Just walk in Hyde Park one morning and see how many elegant Europeans display basic courtesies.

 

Some shipboard examples of rude Europeans. We had placed our sweaters on the chairs of our chosen table and gone to get our food at the Lido; upon return we found a Brit sitting at our table. He just smiled and made no effort to go or say anything. It turns out that the policy is to not save tables in this manner. O.K., but you need to tell people that and, if someone has done such a thing, you live with it and find another table. In this case there were free tables elsewhere. Another example, one evening just before the production show was starting in the Grand Lounge I had been sitting with my parents. Coming directly from dinner we'd had a question about our bar bill. My father had ordered and my mother had signed the bill; only while discussing afterwards did we discover a discrepancy. I went to make inquiries with the wine steward. Upon my return there was a woman sitting in my chair. I gave my mother a look of surprise as if to say "why didn't you save my chair?" My mother wispered to me that when a woman had inquired if the seat was taken and my mother had said "Yes, my daughter is sitting there," this person's British companion had rudely retorted, "You can't save seats! Just sit down [Jane]." So much for class! We, of course, displayed class by letting it go. My father, being a true gentleman, gave up his seat for me to enjoy the show with my mother.

 

As for fashionable Europeans and grungy Americans, that's a bit overstated, too. In fact my parents and I commented on how similar the fashion styles were. Their teens were dressed just like our teenagers here; jeans were everywhere in London, Barcelona, Lisbon, Gibralter, Tenerife, Funchal, and Las Palmas. It was funny seeing the baggy jeans below the but look on the young teenaged boys. If anything this showed just how connected the world has become. A fashion fad spreads quickly over the entire globe. London's masses tended to dress "better" than we do here in Los Angeles, but my parents stated that this has a lot to do with the weather. Warm climates tend to preclude wearing three-piece suits in favor of lighter cotton blends. I'd say the Europeans we encountered in the cities mentioned above tended to dress well, more along the lines of New Yorkers as opposed to southern Californians. But what pretentiousness to suggest every woman in France is wearing a Hermes scarf or the equivalent in terms of style or price. We encountered beautiful shops on Regent Street, Bond St., St. James' Place, etc. while in London, but we had the same thoughts as we do here when we go to the mall: "Who's buying the beautiful clothes because nobody's wearing them!"

 

The more I travel, the more I see what a great country I live in. I enjoy visiting other countries and experiencing new cultures, but god forbid I should ever get to the point where I'm so enamoured of other countries that I'm constantly denigrating my own people. We have our own culture and our own ways and as I get older I'm more and more proud of it. There are "ugly Americans." But have you been to Benidorm (on the coast of Spain) or any of the other cheap resorts where low-class Brits vacation. See them in action and then come talk to me about ugly Americans. Regardless of peoples' perception of our politics, Americans as a people are almost universally well liked by the world, for all the reasons I described above. That's the side I try to present to the world. I may be fat and wear jeans, but I'm friendly, unpretentious, open, honest, inquisitive about the world, and, most importantly, a darn good tipper!

[BlueHerons]

I wasn't aware that jeans were vulgar. Maybe I'm just an ignorant american, but who cares what other people wear. I just don't understand how jeans and a tee can be so offensive. People are there to have a good time, not be judged. Unless there's "stuff" hanging out everywhere, I just don't see what the problem is.

 

Jeans are inappropriate in many settings. Many churches and other tourist 'sites' in Europe have dress codes and jeans and a t-shirt would keep you from entering. It is about people having a little reverence for some of the places we visit.

 

A tank top in the Vatican? I think not.

 

Just a question but if you don't care what others wear, why would you post on a fashion message board on a subject about caring what other people wear?

[mandm2]

To Crucero-amante:

Thank you for a wonderful post. You certainly have the class that the OP does not.

[Cats' slave]

I stand by my earlier post that British people are friendly and kind. They go out of their way to get to know Americans. They are not snobby, judgmental or insulting in any way.

 

As far as jeans, I overheard a young man on the subway very quietly mention my jeans to his girlfriend. He said that was what quality denim looked like and he wished he could find it in London. There is no way he meant for me to hear him, but I have musician's hearing...my husband calls it dog hearing, and I can hear a pin drop if I want to.

 

There is only one exception to my opinion. A certain department store which Princess Diana frequented was full of snobs, but it made my friend and me fall down laughing about our experience later. There are stores like that in the U.S., where the sales people sniff and treat you rudely. I just take my money elsewhere.

 

I think Americans are so wonderful, 90% are absolute gems. But I think the same about other countries. Sometimes we meet the worst they have to offer and we judge the whole country by that and that's not fair.

[greatam]

I also just returned from the 16-day Holiday cruise on the QE2. The clientele was 80% British and about 5% American, with slightly more Germans than us Yanks. I'm in my mid-thirties and traveled with my parents. I had some lovely day clothes, but I did wear my jeans on port days. They are very comfortable, which was important to me. I dressed approriately for dinner and on days at sea I had nice slacks with sweater tops for the afternoons. I wore my jogging suit for taking laps around the boat deck and usually changed into day clothes after breakfast in the Lido. The comments on this post and others about how dressy the QE2 crowd is makes me question whether any of you have ever sailed on her. The crowd was 80% over 70 years of age, not exactly a generation that wears jeans (wether Wal Mart or Calvin Klein). They wore cotton pants, dockers, slacks, and polo shirts, sweaters, or blouses. Nothing fancy, just what all 70 year olds wear for the most part during the day.

 

 

Thank you for making my point, although you were trying your best to disagree with me. YOU wore "lovely day clothes" on the ship, didn't you?? You only wore your JEANS on port days when you were off the ship. YOU changed out of your jogging suit into "day clothes after breakfast in the Lido".

 

And it truly was the "older set" that I was appalled at boarding in NYC in JEANS. I have no problem with any 16 YO in JEANS anyplace other than dinner. It's what young people all over the world wear. Although I saw very few young people in jeans. The few that were on the transatlantic were generally dressed in slacks or cute outfits.

 

As you state, MOST people wore cotton pants, slacks, sweaters and blouses. Much dressier than your average cruise daywear that consists of slogan T-shirts, sloppy shorts, and bad bathing suits. "Nothing fancy, just what all 70 year olds wear for the most part during the day".

 

So the AMERICANS that boarded in NYC (and most were at least 55) in their JEANS were not the NORM, were they? And the Americans who showed up in JEANS for dinner were way out of bounds, weren't they?

 

I never said anyone was rude. And I admitted that taking a picture was TACKY, TACKY, TACKY. Thanks again for making my point. You saw the same thing I saw, UNTIL we got to NY and the Amerians in their JEANS boarded the ship.

[Bonnie&Rob]

quote from Greatam

"Everyone,

This was not meant as a slam. It is just a heads up on how the rest of the world perceives us. Everyone else follows the rules, why can't we??? Americans are not THAT special. "

 

Not meant as a slam? Calling people slobs with big butts and telling them to look in a mirror is not meant as a slam? Not sure what planet you're from, but I don't know of any person of any nationalilty that wouldn't consider that comment rude.

 

It's nice that you are so diligent in your job as the fashion and size sheriff, Greatam, but you may want to study more on the manners thing. I believe the first lesson in manners is that if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

[MrsMoose2001]

And it truly was the "older set" that I was appalled at boarding in NYC in JEANS. I have no problem with any 16 YO in JEANS anyplace other than dinner. It's what young people all over the world wear. Although I saw very few young people in jeans. The few that were on the transatlantic were generally dressed in slacks or cute outfits.

 

As you state, MOST people wore cotton pants, slacks, sweaters and blouses. Much dressier than your average cruise daywear that consists of slogan T-shirts, sloppy shorts, and bad bathing suits. "Nothing fancy, just what all 70 year olds wear for the most part during the day".

 

So the AMERICANS that boarded in NYC (and most were at least 55) in their JEANS were not the NORM, were they? And the Americans who showed up in JEANS for dinner were way out of bounds, weren't they?

 

I never said anyone was rude. And I admitted that taking a picture was TACKY, TACKY, TACKY. Thanks again for making my point. You saw the same thing I saw, UNTIL we got to NY and the Amerians in their JEANS boarded the ship.

 

If find this statment of age offensive. Not because I'm 70 I'm not, but for all the older people out there. Why should they dress "old". Why should they not be allowed to wear jeans when boarding? I'm not talking about dinner, rules are rules. But to board a ship they have to dress to what you consider age/fashion appropriate? Why are they not allowed to feel young at heart. And why should anyone be ashamed of their body if they choose not to be. Because you find "fat butts" offensive and believe in covering them because they are offensive to you?

 

This is not in relation to what people wear to dinner. A rule or dress code should ALWAYS be observed. But and I state again, how do you know they were all Americans? Did you speak with each and every "old person in jeans with a fat butt boarding the ship" and ask them what their nationality is?

And how do you know that those "old people in the jeans" were not coming from a long flight/drive and had no time to change into what YOU considered to be age/fashion appropriate to board a ship?

 

If anyone has a selfish ME attitude in all of this I personally think it is YOU!

 

YOU found fat butts offensive so they should be covered or hid.

 

YOU found jeans for boarding a ship (when I assume there are no rules or dress codes for boarding a ship) offensive if they were on what YOU deem to be OLD people, because YOU did not like the thin fabric that was not up to what YOU consider to be acceptable denim.

 

I wonder what the people in the Queens Grill had to say about your wardrobe?

[davoni]

Jane110 - Yes we do have some big butts in Queensland too - We seem to be following the USA on fast food consumption!;)

Beachbrat - So you're a size 2....wow! You sound like you need to have a good feed!:eek:

 

Davoni - Size 8 (that's a 6 in your country):)

[Mrs. Flamed FXSTC]

That sounds like a wonderful cruise, when and what ship?

 

November 5-12, 2006 Mariner of the Seas. Check out the thread on the Meet and Mingle board for more information. You can also check the following website: www.hogsonthehighseas.com. This group currently sails Eastern Caribbean and Alaska each year. They're also looking into the possibility of a Hawaiian cruise in 2008.:D

[greatam]

MrsMoose2001

 

Better start reading more carefully. It was NOT I who said anything about age, UNTIL someone else (CruiserBruiser) noted that on THEIR QE2 cruise, "The crowd was 80% over 70 years of age, not exactly a generation that wears jeans (wether Wal Mart or Calvin Klein). They wore cotton pants, dockers, slacks, and polo shirts, sweaters, or blouses. Nothing fancy, just what all 70 year olds wear for the most part during the day."

 

As for boarding after a long flight-over 1/2 the CC'ers who were on the transatlantic flew overnight from the US into London on the day of the cruise. AND additionally had a 2 hour+ bus trip from London to Southampton. We all met for sail-away at 5:00PM and I saw NO ONE in jeans. And I looked at most of the embarkation photos in Southampton and saw only about three people (out of 1500) in jeans. And they were 20 somethings.

 

And the final point-those blue Passports with the American documentation slips needed to board the ship certainly weren't carried by foreigners. And the minute MOST Americans start to speak, it's pretty obvious, don't you think?

 

I am really tired of this argument. If you feel it is OK to wear jeans anytime, it's your choice. Just not mine.

[MrsMoose2001]

"And it truly was the "older set" that I was appalled at boarding in NYC in JEANS. I have no problem with any 16 YO in JEANS anyplace other than dinner. It's what young people all over the world wear. Although I saw very few young people in jeans. The few that were on the transatlantic were generally dressed in slacks or cute outfits." this was written by you not the other poster!!!

 

I know what I read, the other poster did not say she was appalled at what the older set wore you did, Maybe you should look at what I wrote, and then, look at what you wrote (see above).

 

What I think is that you are a WANNABE

 

And I'd still like to know what the people in the Queens Grill thought of your wardrobe.

[MrsMoose2001]

I just got off the winter transatlantic crossing on the QE2 in Fort Lauderdale. Boarded in Southampton, UK, arrived NYC Jan 9. Saw NO jeans, even in the daytime. Mostly slacks, nice jackets, sweaters, etc in the daytime. About 2/3 Brits, 1/3 Americans and Germans out of Southampton. There were over 40 Americans at our CC get togethers.

 

Then we arrived NYC. And here came the Americans. In their JEANS. Even some of the 70+ age group were wearing JEANS. I can't imagine my Mom even thinking about putting on jeans. Most of the jeans were disgusting-not designer stuff-most looked more like WalMart cheapies. And on American fat butts, no less. Not a slam, simply a statement of how bad some of these ladies looked.

 

We had Princess Grill accomodations. There are signs clearly posted at the top of the stairs and just before you enter the dining room-COAT and TIE required. Daily program-Coat and Tie required on informal night, FORMAL means FORMAL on formal night. NO casual nights. Posted on the FRONT PAGE, at the top, in BOLD letters. Would be hard to miss.

 

Everyone was dressed very appropriately (4 formal nights on the 6 day crossing) UNTIL we got to NY. Then-two guys in Dockers and polo shirts, two ladies in JEANS. They were allowed in the first night (probably due to luggage distribution). But the second night, the same tables and two more couples showed up as inappropriately dressed as the first night. They were turned away. One guy was yelling about how much he paid for the cruise, etc. etc. etc. You know the routine.

 

Our very British tablemates (3 couples) immediately called over the matre'd to express their pleasure over his actions and informed him in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that they would NOT be subjected to "vulgar, American dress codes". 2 out of 3 couples are on the full world cruise, so I believe the matre'd was heeding their admonishment and praise very carefully.

 

Everyone,

This was not meant as a slam. It is just a heads up on how the rest of the world perceives us. Everyone else follows the rules, why can't we??? Americans are not THAT special. Think about that next time you want to dumb down the cruise experience. You are representing your country. And your country deserves the best you can give it.

 

Fire away-already donned the flame retardant suit before I started typing!!!

 

Your first post mentions age before anyone else mentions age, so again, I know what I read, and who wrote what!!

[idocdlw]

Come on...give it a rest ladies...this horse is DEAD...and BURIED!

 

Can we talk about the coolest pair of shoes you've seen lately...Oprah had a great pair on today!

[crucero-amante]

Come on...give it a rest ladies...this horse is DEAD...and BURIED!

 

Can we talk about the coolest pair of shoes you've seen lately...Oprah had a great pair on today!

 

Since you've only posted on the fashion thread a mere few times I really think you should let these ladies hash this out w/o you making a comment that isn't really going to help. It may be a dead horse but sometimes things need to be said and dealt with; whether we all understand or not.

 

JMHO

[Cruise Arizona]

Oh my goodness, I don't think I've ever seen it so bad here on the fashion board.

 

I too am working on being more gracious like Happy KS. A little kindness goes a long way.

 

There is a t-shirt that says "I don't have an attitude problem, You have a perception problem". Who knows which is the case here. Who know which is which between the OP and other people she encountered.

 

We have gotten the trolls involved adding all kinds of inappropriate things. :eek:

 

Please no more flaming and getting nasty with Mrs. Moose, she has always taken the high road here at the fashion board. I have so much respect for her.

 

As for me:

 

I would be very offended if somebody came on here and named a ethnic or regional group other than Americans and starts saying that they dressed poorly and had big butts, merely because it is over generalizing.

 

There is however the "American Tourist" stereo type, and who created it, I don't know, that dresses like a slob. Didn't we all wear the "tacky tourist" costume to a Halloween party a one point or another. But if the true tacky tourist exists it is because he stands out. When I was in Europe I blended in, so it is the one that stands out that gets noticed, even though he may truely be the minority.

 

I think the original OP went over the top, but sometimes we can best reshape peoples attitudes by our gentle gracious ness, and sometimes people just don't want to listen.

 

Lets keep this civilized, and please no more nastiness.

[ciderapple]

Cruise Arizona

 

Very well said, I could not have put it better myself :) I have restrained myself quite a bit on this thread (difficult, believe me!) and am so glad I did. It could very easily have got a lot worse if we had all lowered ourselves to a certain level ;)

 

Happy cruising to everyone whoever you are :)

[MrsMoose2001]

Oh my goodness, I don't think I've ever seen it so bad here on the fashion board.

 

I too am working on being more gracious like Happy KS. A little kindness goes a long way.

 

There is a t-shirt that says "I don't have an attitude problem, You have a perception problem". Who knows which is the case here. Who know which is which between the OP and other people she encountered.

 

We have gotten the trolls involved adding all kinds of inappropriate things. :eek:

 

Please no more flaming and getting nasty with Mrs. Moose, she has always taken the high road here at the fashion board. I have so much respect for her.

 

As for me:

 

I would be very offended if somebody came on here and named a ethnic or regional group other than Americans and starts saying that they dressed poorly and had big butts, merely because it is over generalizing.

 

There is however the "American Tourist" stereo type, and who created it, I don't know, that dresses like a slob. Didn't we all wear the "tacky tourist" costume to a Halloween party a one point or another. But if the true tacky tourist exists it is because he stands out. When I was in Europe I blended in, so it is the one that stands out that gets noticed, even though he may truely be the minority.

 

I think the original OP went over the top, but sometimes we can best reshape peoples attitudes by our gentle gracious ness, and sometimes people just don't want to listen.

 

Lets keep this civilized, and please no more nastiness.

 

Cruise Arizona, thank you for the lovely, nice thing you said about me. Don't know if I deserve it after this thread, but thank you that was more thank nice and kind.

 

I feel the same about you and have the utmost repsect for you. You are always polite and gentle and kind as are most of the other ladies who I've chatted with here regardless of where they come from. Most of the time I don't even look unless someone mentions something that might interest me from where they live (i.e., a store, a restaurant etc).

 

Again thank you for showing the grace and class that I for one know you have and I'm sure most people if not all will agree with me on that statement.:)

[TeresaJenkins]

I'm sorry I'm going to try not flame you, but this is my opinion on some of what you wrote.

Do your country proud by what you wear? I don't think so. I love the USA, I'm proud to be an American, but the ones who are doing us proud are the men and women serving in the armed forces, giving us the freedom to type on a board like this.

Since when does what is on my back make my country proud? I personally don't shop at Wal-mart (not that there is anything wrong with it). I wear designer jeans and I don't cruise except for the one time, and I dressed appropriately, but to say that people who wore cheap jeans or thin fabric jeans were not makeing their country proud?

Servicemen and women are giving their lives, they make us proud, the men and women who risked their lives during 9/11 by rushing in instead of rushing out or staying away (police/fire EMTS) they make us proud and continue to do so.

When we help the victims of Katria or the tsunami, when we help people in other countries achieve freedom and help feed people and give medical aid, that does us proud, but clothing?

I agree with Mark, they may look good on the outside, but what about the smell and the lack of personal "hygine" in more ways than just a bath?

And as for fat butts, well, that's relative, to whoever has a larger butt than yours, yours is small, to whoever has a smaller butt, yours is big.

I agree, the choice of words to describe "fat butts" could have been put more delicately. And besides who said you could say what constititues a fat butt, and before you ask, no I don't wear the cheap denim, I wear the designer ones from Saks and NM and I wear the right clothes, but I take offense at anyone putting anyone down for their weight or what is on their back.

Arent' Americans criticized enough by the rest of the world, that we don't have to do it to our own? And for what, a fashion faux pas or the size of a pair of pants?

If you say take pride in yourself by what you wear, that is one thing, but do your country proud by what you wear? I really don't think so.

If this is taken as a flame then so be it, but I figure I'm entitled to my opinion too.

 

 

Thank you for posting this, and thank you for saying everything I probably would have messed up in the heat of passion.

 

You can take pride in yourself for this post; it was well written! Know I back what you said 100% + I'll be able to keep my posting privileges. ;)

[TeresaJenkins]

One of my goals in life is to become a more gracious person. Because it seems to me that society has lost a lot of its grace. I know I fall short in many ways, but I keep trying. I don't care what nationality you are, true grace makes a more beautiful, generous and desirable person to be with than any clothing or money could ever achieve.

I have had the opportunity to work with people from many different backgrounds and nationalities. There are both wonderful and nasty people from every country on earth. The worst are the ones who make assumptions of you based on your birth place.

 

Exactly!

I have never heard anyone say "that woman/man dresses with grace".

I have heard "that man/woman holds himself/herself with such grace."

You can't wear good manners or grace.

Good manners and grace come from within, and the biggest mistake I could make as a person, as a mother teaching my daughters, is too judge a person by the clothes on their back, the house they live in, or the car they drive and so on.

In my youth I stuck my foot in my mouth more times than I can recall, and in doing so I showed my ignorance and pettiness in bold light. In most cases as people grow they mature enough to correct these shortcomings, but many don't - actually they get worse.

~Don't judge a book by it's cover~ seems such simple a lesson, but I guess it's meaning is missed on the simple minded pettiness of many.

[MrsMoose2001]

Thank you for posting this, and thank you for saying everything I probably would have messed up in the heat of passion.

 

You can take pride in yourself for this post; it was well written! Know I back what you said 100% + I'll be able to keep my posting privileges. ;)

 

Thank you, your words mean a lot to me. I struggeld with it before I posted as I try not to flame, criticize or judge what anyone posts.