Here come the Americans!!!

greatam · January 12, 2006

I just got off the winter transatlantic crossing on the QE2 in Fort Lauderdale. Boarded in Southampton, UK, arrived NYC Jan 9. Saw NO jeans, even in the daytime. Mostly slacks, nice jackets, sweaters, etc in the daytime. About 2/3 Brits, 1/3 Americans and Germans out of Southampton. There were over 40 Americans at our CC get togethers.

Then we arrived NYC. And here came the Americans. In their JEANS. Even some of the 70+ age group were wearing JEANS. I can't imagine my Mom even thinking about putting on jeans. Most of the jeans were disgusting-not designer stuff-most looked more like WalMart cheapies. And on American fat butts, no less. Not a slam, simply a statement of how bad some of these ladies looked.

We had Princess Grill accomodations. There are signs clearly posted at the top of the stairs and just before you enter the dining room-COAT and TIE required. Daily program-Coat and Tie required on informal night, FORMAL means FORMAL on formal night. NO casual nights. Posted on the FRONT PAGE, at the top, in BOLD letters. Would be hard to miss.

Everyone was dressed very appropriately (4 formal nights on the 6 day crossing) UNTIL we got to NY. Then-two guys in Dockers and polo shirts, two ladies in JEANS. They were allowed in the first night (probably due to luggage distribution). But the second night, the same tables and two more couples showed up as inappropriately dressed as the first night. They were turned away. One guy was yelling about how much he paid for the cruise, etc. etc. etc. You know the routine.

Our very British tablemates (3 couples) immediately called over the matre'd to express their pleasure over his actions and informed him in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that they would NOT be subjected to "vulgar, American dress codes". 2 out of 3 couples are on the full world cruise, so I believe the matre'd was heeding their admonishment and praise very carefully.

Everyone,

This was not meant as a slam. It is just a heads up on how the rest of the world perceives us. Everyone else follows the rules, why can't we??? Americans are not THAT special. Think about that next time you want to dumb down the cruise experience. You are representing your country. And your country deserves the best you can give it.

Fire away-already donned the flame retardant suit before I started typing!!!

caviargal · January 12, 2006

I think it is not even that everyone else but the Americans follow the rules; it is more that Europeans care more about what they look like overall.

I go to Europe fairly often and my experiences have been the same. It is one of the reasons I so enjoy visiting Italy and other favorite places. I do not wear jeans when I travel there, nor do I pack shorts and T- shirts.

I think it is also interesting that the passengers who were dressed contrary to the dress code were beligerent when held accountable. More of the "it's my vacation, I paid for it and I'll wear what I want to."

Kudos to the cruise line for upholding their standards.

RumRunner01 · January 12, 2006

I have been to Europe only once (so far) and was very careful about my attire, as to not appear to be a slobbish American. I also do not dress that way in my every day wear anyway, so it was a treat to be able to be a little more dressy when I was over there and not look out of place. I am glad to see that on this cruise they really upheld the dress code. It's too bad that some Americans were beligerant about it, gives the rest of us a bad name.

madelinerose · January 12, 2006

greatam...I try my best to avoid them, but have you been to a mall lately? IMHO, America personified...

Mark · January 12, 2006

As an American who cruises quite often, I can agree with the author and say that it appears most Amercians on cruises are dressed below the required standards and in many cases are downright sloppy. However, before yoy praise the Europeans too much for their proper attire, take a trip to Europe in the summer when it is hot and then see how those proper Europeans smell...not too good...they do not bathe as often as we Americans and I believe that deodorant and antiperserants are not available in Europe since they are obviously not used. So in summary, maybe the Europeans appear to dress better than we Americans but we tend to smell better!:cool:

luckye · January 12, 2006

Also many consider tobacco to be the fifth food group and blatantly disregard any "no smoking" signs....

And remember the most important thing you can wear on a cruise or anywhere else is a :)

BlueHerons · January 12, 2006

I never wear jeans when I cross the pond either. Europeans, as a whole are not only more formal but tend to have much more style than Americans.

Does every single woman in France not only own but know how to chicly wear an Hermes scarf?

LandLockedInAZ · January 12, 2006

Most of the jeans were disgusting-not designer stuff-most looked more like WalMart cheapies. And on American fat butts, no less. Not a slam, simply a statement of how bad some of these ladies looked.

I agree with almost everything you said. Generally, Americans are perceived as being more slovenly and demanding than their overseas counterparts. However, I take issue with the implication that you have to wear designer anything to look presentable. Jeans are jeans, whether you buy them at Wal-Mart (which I do not) or high-end boutiques in NYC. I think even jeans purchased from Wal-Mart do not necessarily qualify as "disgusting". Maybe this was too harsh a word? OR were the jeans dirty and ripped up? If so, perhaps that's what should have been said.

And for calling out "American fat butts", well, again, even overweight people can look neat and clean. Perhaps a little more distinction on what was actually offensive to you, not pointing out personal defects would have been nice.

I guess it was probably just really obvious how different our cultures are when you had been immersed in the idealized QM2 culture for 6 days, as it would be for anybody. Just wondering if it could have been pointed out a little more delicately?

greatam · January 12, 2006

I agree with almost everything you said. Generally, Americans are perceived as being more slovenly and demanding than their overseas counterparts. However, I take issue with the implication that you have to wear designer anything to look presentable. Jeans are jeans, whether you buy them at Wal-Mart (which I do not) or high-end boutiques in NYC. I think even jeans purchased from Wal-Mart do not necessarily qualify as "disgusting". Maybe this was too harsh a word? OR were the jeans dirty and ripped up? If so, perhaps that's what should have been said.

And for calling out "American fat butts", well, again, even overweight people can look neat and clean. Perhaps a little more distinction on what was actually offensive to you, not pointing out personal defects would have been nice.

I guess it was probably just really obvious how different our cultures are when you had been immersed in the idealized QM2 culture for 6 days, as it would be for anybody. Just wondering if it could have been pointed out a little more delicately?

To address the points you brought up:

1. Who said anything about designer jeans? No need for designer jeans-heck, I wear Levi's (brand) 90% of the time. But there truly is a difference between the thin denim fabric of some cheapo denim pants (IMHO, these are not JEANS) and things like Levi's and Wranglers. That material is heavy and holds in some of the "bumps". Not the other stuff.

2. If you would have seen some of these ladies, you would agree. I wanted to take a couple pictures to post here, but DH said that was crass and I had to agree. One lady looked like she had just done a weeks worth of lawn care. No, she wasn't dirty-the pants were just those thin denim things, with an ELASTIC waist, no less, and showed absolutely every lump and bump. And with a top tucked in which screamed "car wash". There were quite a few who had on "denim" pants, which I guess you could call JEANS, but looked more like bad polyester from the 70's. They really stood out amongst the other women. And the ladies would have looked SOOOO much better in a pair of slacks and a pullover top. Same cost, even the same store (Walmart-White Stag line), just a different perception.

I am no spring chicken and I am not particularly thin (5'6, 138), but yes, these were FAT butts in the MOST unflattering clothes anyone possibly could have chosen. And the butts were accentuated by the choice of cheap denim jeans.

There were two or three really heavy women who looked SPECTACULAR. One black lady was one of the most elegantly dressed on the ship. I bet she weighed every bit of 300+. I made her acquaintance, but you don't ask those things. Nothing designer, nothing trendy, just GOOD classic clothes, which fit her well and made her look VERY elegant. Her formal clothes were to die for and she told me she bought everything she had at consignment shops and on Ebay. So no need to spend a lot of money. She worked for the US government in Washington, DC and the world cruise was her sabbatical.

And NO, it is not an idealized culture (and it was the QE2, which is even more formal than the QM2). The clothes are what real people wear in an upscale atmosphere. Don't come down on me as an elitist snob-I own a trucking company. That is about as far from elitist as you can get. But there is a time and place (and maybe a little fantasy) to maybe want to dress a little better when you present yourself to the world.

happysinglemom · January 12, 2006

Just wondering if it could have been pointed out a little more delicately?

Yeah - I certainly didn't take offense, but let's face it - a "fat butt" is not restricted to Americans, nor do all Americans have one. And the term is well, just not nice. :cool: You could certainly have worded your post in a less inflamatory manner. Possibly something like "disproportionately overweight"??

Although....maybe you were hoping for flames...with the suit and all... ;)

bz · January 12, 2006

I must agree with you, many Americans have no idea how to dress properly. It's not the amount of money you spend, it's how you look. We're going to Europe in May and I have no intention of packing jeans (even my "nice" ones) or sweat pants. I am embarassed by the way some of my fellow countrymen present themselves. There's a difference between neat casual and sloppy!

greatam · January 12, 2006

Yeah - I certainly didn't take offense, but let's face it - a "fat butt" is not restricted to Americans, nor do all Americans have one. And the term is well, just not nice. :cool: You could certainly have worded your post in a less inflamatory manner. Possibly something like "disproportionately overweight"??

Although....maybe you were hoping for flames...with the suit and all... ;)

Don't really need to see if the suit is flame retardant.

As we are all aware, FAT Butts are not restricted to Americans nor do we all have one, although mine is getting into that stage. Oh where, oh where did I put the BowFlex (under the clothes probably-great garment rack)?

However, FAT is what I saw in those crappy, thin denim pants that lots of stores pass off for JEANS. It wasn't so much that the whole body was "disproportionately overweight", it was just that the choice of "cheap denim pants which pass for jeans" accentuated the butt so badly that FAT was all I could think of.

I think we all know what I meant. A three way mirror would be a blessing for a lot of those ladies.

The whole point to my post was-wear your clothes proudly, make yourself and your country proud and leave the JEANS (no matter what type) at home.

Gina

Happy ks · January 12, 2006

I used to go to Disneyland a lot, I held a year-round pass there for quite a few years. It's not just cruises that you see this look, it's everywhere. I have a sorta fat butt, I know it's there, but I don't want to show it off, I cover my flaws. I wear clean, pressed clothes, I wear shoes that do not look like they're ready for the trash heap. Sometimes I would be so embarrassed by the clothing the "locals" would wear, downright slovenly.

Then, I'd see a lot of Japanese students and tourists from other countries (listen to them speaking a different language from mine) and they would all look so neat and clean. I used to wonder just what they thought of the American public.

I'll never forget once I was there on New Years Day and had the feeling my kids and I were the only ones who had bathed and combed our hair. I was standing in line for something, behind an attractive couple, probably in their late 50's, early 60's, clearly dressed for a casual day, but looking good. I was thinking "thank goodness there is someone else here who cares what they look like!" when the woman turns around and says the very same thing to me!

The last cruise we boarded, there were people dressed like they had just finished mowing the lawn and painting the fence before they left for the port.

Your clothing does not have to be old, stained, worn out to be comfortable. You do not have to spend a fortune and have designer duds to look presentable. Why do people think it's OK to look like slobs? It's not just clothing, either, it's haircuts, shoes, fingernails and one of my pet peeves, a dirty car (I know, not fashion related, but while I'm whining about pet peeves, I thought I'd throw that in too!:) )

People, take care of yourselves!

MrsMoose2001 · January 13, 2006

I'm sorry I'm going to try not flame you, but this is my opinion on some of what you wrote.

Do your country proud by what you wear? I don't think so. I love the USA, I'm proud to be an American, but the ones who are doing us proud are the men and women serving in the armed forces, giving us the freedom to type on a board like this.

Since when does what is on my back make my country proud? I personally don't shop at Wal-mart (not that there is anything wrong with it). I wear designer jeans and I don't cruise except for the one time, and I dressed appropriately, but to say that people who wore cheap jeans or thin fabric jeans were not makeing their country proud?

Servicemen and women are giving their lives, they make us proud, the men and women who risked their lives during 9/11 by rushing in instead of rushing out or staying away (police/fire EMTS) they make us proud and continue to do so.

When we help the victims of Katria or the tsunami, when we help people in other countries achieve freedom and help feed people and give medical aid, that does us proud, but clothing?

I agree with Mark, they may look good on the outside, but what about the smell and the lack of personal "hygine" in more ways than just a bath?

And as for fat butts, well, that's relative, to whoever has a larger butt than yours, yours is small, to whoever has a smaller butt, yours is big.

I agree, the choice of words to describe "fat butts" could have been put more delicately. And besides who said you could say what constititues a fat butt, and before you ask, no I don't wear the cheap denim, I wear the designer ones from Saks and NM and I wear the right clothes, but I take offense at anyone putting anyone down for their weight or what is on their back.

Arent' Americans criticized enough by the rest of the world, that we don't have to do it to our own? And for what, a fashion faux pas or the size of a pair of pants?

If you say take pride in yourself by what you wear, that is one thing, but do your country proud by what you wear? I really don't think so.

If this is taken as a flame then so be it, but I figure I'm entitled to my opinion too.

Jane110 · January 13, 2006

I never wear jeans when I cross the pond either. Europeans, as a whole are not only more formal but tend to have much more style than Americans.

Does every single woman in France not only own but know how to chicly wear an Hermes scarf?

I love my Hermes scarves and wear them often. They have a book that they will give you if you buy some, on how to tie them if you need it.

happysinglemom · January 13, 2006

A three way mirror would be a blessing for a lot of those ladies.

Frankly, many of the people I see these days would benefit from any mirror at all. But I don't think it would make a difference. Truly, I think that they really believe they look fine. And I agree with HappyKS - it's not just a clothing thing - it's a "I'll do whatever I please it's my right so get outta my face" attitude. It's THE most prevalent attitude around these days. And I would have to say that THAT probably IS an "American" thing...good, or bad. :cool:

greatam · January 13, 2006

I'm sorry I'm going to try not flame you, but this is my opinion on some of what you wrote.

Do your country proud by what you wear? I don't think so. I love the USA, I'm proud to be an American, but the ones who are doing us proud are the men and women serving in the armed forces, giving us the freedom to type on a board like this.

Since when does what is on my back make my country proud? I personally don't shop at Wal-mart (not that there is anything wrong with it). I wear designer jeans and I don't cruise except for the one time, and I dressed appropriately, but to say that people who wore cheap jeans or thin fabric jeans were not makeing their country proud?

Servicemen and women are giving their lives, they make us proud, the men and women who risked their lives during 9/11 by rushing in instead of rushing out or staying away (police/fire EMTS) they make us proud and continue to do so.

When we help the victims of Katria or the tsunami, when we help people in other countries achieve freedom and help feed people and give medical aid, that does us proud, but clothing?

I agree with Mark, they may look good on the outside, but what about the smell and the lack of personal "hygine" in more ways than just a bath?

And as for fat butts, well, that's relative, to whoever has a larger butt than yours, yours is small, to whoever has a smaller butt, yours is big.

I agree, the choice of words to describe "fat butts" could have been put more delicately. And besides who said you could say what constititues a fat butt, and before you ask, no I don't wear the cheap denim, I wear the designer ones from Saks and NM and I wear the right clothes, but I take offense at anyone putting anyone down for their weight or what is on their back.

Arent' Americans criticized enough by the rest of the world, that we don't have to do it to our own? And for what, a fashion faux pas or the size of a pair of pants?

If you say take pride in yourself by what you wear, that is one thing, but do your country proud by what you wear? I really don't think so.

If this is taken as a flame then so be it, but I figure I'm entitled to my opinion too.

To address your points:

My opinion was NOT a political statement, so bringing up the military, 911 and Hurricane Katrina was out of bounds. I think we can all agree that soldiers in Iraq, Afghanistan and other positions in the world are doing much more than most of us to represent our country and make us proud.

And yes, EVERY time you are in contact with NON-Americans, you are representing your country. Foreigners take clothing, our words and actions all into consideration when making value judgements about America and Americans. Slovenly clothing, rudeness, the selfish ME ME ME attitude, "Brittany Spears look alikes"-sleazy, sleazy, sleazy appearance, are all reasons other countries (especially the radical factions of the Middle East) REPEATEDLY state as reasons to HATE America and Americans. Don't you think we could present a better image to the world just by dressing as if we were proud Americans and not as total hedonists?

I truly believe that if you "upscale" the dress, you also upscale the manners and attitude. I saw this first hand at our company party this year when I insisted on something other than jeans and t-shirts for dress. I saw a whole bunch of truck drivers actually pull out chairs for ladies, quit the cussing (which happens 24/7 at our company), and act as their Mother's would wish them to act. I felt like a proud Mother to 37 drivers and their dates. They didn't change really, but due to their dress, they just acted better.

I made it VERY specific that you do not need to spend lots of money for clothes. White Stag, which used to be very upscale clothing, is sold at WalMart. The quality is good and the price is right. And the lady on my cruise was probably THE most elegantly dressed woman on the ship. She told me all her clothes either came from consignment shops or from Ebay.

Below is a quote from a gentleman who was also on the cruise. He is from San Francisco, so no European bias in his statement.

"The negative thing (and I wasn't the only WCC-er to notice it) was that the whole tone of the ship changed after New York. It really sort of seemed to turn into a cruise crowd and the whole mystical sense of being on a crossing on a real ocean liner was gone. I feel like I was on a six day crossing and a 36 hour cruise."

The tone changed, the elegance was gone. And the Americans boarded the ship.

MrsMoose2001 · January 13, 2006

First if you saw my post as political it wasn't meant that way. I said what I said, not in a political sense but in a sense of "makeing my country proud".

You are most assuredly entited to your opinion, but it is just my opinion that what a person wears does not make a country proud.

And I personally do not feel that was is on my back is a representation of my country. Your statement implied that people who dress badly or inappropriately are giving Americans a bad rep. But that is just my opinion.

I've also heard that Americans are not liked for their "capitalist attitude/values", well isn't nice expensive clothing, a capitalist value. Now don't get me wrong, I'm a card carrying capitalist. I love expensive desinger stuff and I love wearing nice clothes. I just don't think it's nice or fair to say that people who don't are ruining the reputation of the United States. I also believe in following the rules and dress codes.

And if you want to call Americans rude, then saying someone had a "fat butt" in my opinion is rude. Wanting to take a picture and make fun of someone who could not even defend themselves is beyond tacky and rude in my opinion.

And what about the 1/3 Americans who were on the transatlantic crossing. Where they dressed badly. Perhaps it was the "trip" that changed the tone of the dress. NYC to FLA is not a transatlantic crossing.

As for dress changing manners, I can't say it's always true. I've been around people dressed in "rags" and I do mean rags and they had better manners than the people dressed in Escada and Armani.

I live in a very touristy part of town. We get a lot of tourists from europe but especially France. I can hear their accent and my husband who is french can spot them at 10 paces. Badly dressded, white socks with sandles and shorts. Europeans from France, dressed badly. Do they go into nice restaurants here like that, yes, are they respresenting their country, no. They are representing themselves. When "backpackers" come here from europe and walk around with huge backpacks in dirty clothes and unkempt hair, I do not feel they are giving a resentation of their country just themselves.

The same thing for the Americans who were badly dressed. They were not representing their USA, they were representing themselves.

I live with criticism of Americans every day. I hear the criticism and hatred almost everyday, in fact it's become almost a national passtime. For many reasons, but never once did I hear it about the clothing.

I'm sorry if you took my post as a political statement. It wasn't meant that way, but I still feel that what is on someone's back does not make a country proud, just my opinion.

Andipanda1 · January 13, 2006

First if you saw my post as political it wasn't meant that way. I said what I said, not in a political sense but in a sense of "makeing my country proud".

You are most assuredly entited to your opinion, but it is just my opinion that what a person wears does not make a country proud.

And I personally do not feel that was is on my back is a representation of my country. Your statement implied that people who dress badly or inappropriately are giving Americans a bad rep. But that is just my opinion.

I've also heard that Americans are not liked for their "capitalist attitude/values", well isn't nice expensive clothing, a capitalist value. Now don't get me wrong, I'm a card carrying capitalist. I love expensive desinger stuff and I love wearing nice clothes. I just don't think it's nice or fair to say that people who don't are ruining the reputation of the United States. I also believe in following the rules and dress codes.

And if you want to call Americans rude, then saying someone had a "fat butt" in my opinion is rude. Wanting to take a picture and make fun of someone who could not even defend themselves is beyond tacky and rude in my opinion.

And what about the 1/3 Americans who were on the transatlantic crossing. Where they dressed badly. Perhaps it was the "trip" that changed the tone of the dress. NYC to FLA is not a transatlantic crossing.

As for dress changing manners, I can't say it's always true. I've been around people dressed in "rags" and I do mean rags and they had better manners than the people dressed in Escada and Armani.

I live in a very touristy part of town. We get a lot of tourists from europe but especially France. I can hear their accent and my husband who is french can spot them at 10 paces. Badly dressded, white socks with sandles and shorts. Europeans from France, dressed badly. Do they go into nice restaurants here like that, yes, are they respresenting their country, no. They are representing themselves. When "backpackers" come here from europe and walk around with huge backpacks in dirty clothes and unkempt hair, I do not feel they are giving a resentation of their country just themselves.

The same thing for the Americans who were badly dressed. They were not representing their USA, they were representing themselves.

I live with criticism of Americans every day. I hear the criticism and hatred almost everyday, in fact it's become almost a national passtime. For many reasons, but never once did I hear it about the clothing.

I'm sorry if you took my post as a political statement. It wasn't meant that way, but I still feel that what is on someone's back does not make a country proud, just my opinion.

You're missing the point. The point is the selfish, MEMEME attitude of some folks to the point that they don't care about dressing properly for an occasion. There is no sense of pride--you should have seen what walked off the ship on our last cruise. Dirty jeans, rumpled shirts, ripped t-shirts, we were horrified. These days, people don't know what proper dress is for a dinner at a nice restaurant, formal night on a cruise, or even for a funeral. We recently had a death in the family and I was horrified by what some people wore--and these were family members that are pretty well-off, too.

Pride in the country does extend to pride in your appearance and indeed, "what you wear on your back." As the OP said, each and every day, we are representatives of this nation.

MrsMoose2001 · January 13, 2006

I'm not going to beat a dead horse so to speak and I'm not going to get into a major argument as everyone has their opinion and they are definitely entitled to it and I'm entitled to mine.

But I'll say this, maybe you missed my point, or better phrased my opinion.

I do agree that people are not always takeing pride in their appearance, in the way they dress or dressing properly or respecting dress codes. No agrument there. But my opinion/point was that I still don't think a person who dresses incorrectly, badly/ dirty or whatever is giving a bad rep to their country. To themselves most assuredly, to the people with them yes, but to the country, sorry I can't personally agree that what I wear will make my country proud.

Most people here say that the europeans dress better. Well you have not seen the ones that come here on vacation. Not all of them but a good chunk are so badly dressed and inappropriately as well. Do I think that the french men tourists, who come here dressed in shorts, white mid-thigh socks and sandles and go into an upscale restaurant here, are giving a bad rep to France, no. Do I think they are makeing France less proud of them, no. I think they just don't have good fashion judgement.

I had only one cruise, and while 99% were dressed appropriately I can't say that their manner of dress gave them all good manners. Some really well dressed people were really rude and some weren't.

I'm now speaking from personal experience, I was at a party recently, I was the only American there, I was well dressed. Designer clothing. Proper manners, and all I heard was how bad the Americans are, what we are doing wrong, and basically how they don't like us. In an evening that went from 6:30 pm till a little after 1am in the morning, I heard what we do wrong, but not once in all that time, did I hear how badly dressed Americans are or how their wardrobe is somehow their downfall. These people could not criticize the ME attititude because they as foreigners, had the ME attitutde too. Not only Americans have the ME attitude, I think we can find that in many different countries/cultures.

What about foreigners who smoke, who smoke regardless if they are bothering others or not. Could be taken as a ME attitude. Do I think they are giving their country a bad rep, no.

If a person chooses to ignore a dress code or dresses improperly, or whatever, in my opinion and that's all it is an opinion is that they are showing they as an indidivual have bad manners or were perhaps raised badly, or don't know any better, but it certainly in my opinion should not be said that these individuals are giving the country a bad rep or by wearing the wrong clothes their country can't be proud of them.

I went to a very upscale restaurant last weekend, here in a foreign country. Well dressed people. A family with 2 children came in. This is not considered a family restaurant and rarely do you see children in there. One of the reasons I like to go. Parents were appropriately dressed, the children were running around annoying other customers. Did the parents do anything, no, not a single word was said that the child should sit down and not run around and go over and check out what was on other peoples tables etc etc. To me that was worse than any bad attire that would have been worn and more of a ME attitude. Bad attire can be ignored, but direct annoyance can't be. Were they Americans no. Should I say that this country should not be proud of them because they can't control their children or that they were just having the ME attitutde? The ME attitude that they have children and everyone else has to put up with their bad behavior.? Other cultures may not have the ME attitude in their way of dress, but they may have it with other issues.

Juliadlf · January 13, 2006

I just got off the winter transatlantic crossing on the QE2 in Fort Lauderdale. Boarded in Southampton, UK, arrived NYC Jan 9. Saw NO jeans, even in the daytime. Mostly slacks, nice jackets, sweaters, etc in the daytime. About 2/3 Brits, 1/3 Americans and Germans out of Southampton. There were over 40 Americans at our CC get togethers.

Then we arrived NYC. And here came the Americans. In their JEANS. Even some of the 70+ age group were wearing JEANS. I can't imagine my Mom even thinking about putting on jeans. Most of the jeans were disgusting-not designer stuff-most looked more like WalMart cheapies. And on American fat butts, no less. Not a slam, simply a statement of how bad some of these ladies looked.

We had Princess Grill accomodations. There are signs clearly posted at the top of the stairs and just before you enter the dining room-COAT and TIE required. Daily program-Coat and Tie required on informal night, FORMAL means FORMAL on formal night. NO casual nights. Posted on the FRONT PAGE, at the top, in BOLD letters. Would be hard to miss.

Everyone was dressed very appropriately (4 formal nights on the 6 day crossing) UNTIL we got to NY. Then-two guys in Dockers and polo shirts, two ladies in JEANS. They were allowed in the first night (probably due to luggage distribution). But the second night, the same tables and two more couples showed up as inappropriately dressed as the first night. They were turned away. One guy was yelling about how much he paid for the cruise, etc. etc. etc. You know the routine.

Our very British tablemates (3 couples) immediately called over the matre'd to express their pleasure over his actions and informed him in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that they would NOT be subjected to "vulgar, American dress codes". 2 out of 3 couples are on the full world cruise, so I believe the matre'd was heeding their admonishment and praise very carefully.

Everyone,

This was not meant as a slam. It is just a heads up on how the rest of the world perceives us. Everyone else follows the rules, why can't we??? Americans are not THAT special. Think about that next time you want to dumb down the cruise experience. You are representing your country. And your country deserves the best you can give it.

Fire away-already donned the flame retardant suit before I started typing!!!

What do you mean by "how the rest of the world perceives us"? You mean "how the world perceives you" ;) .

caviargal · January 13, 2006

What do you mean by "how the rest of the world perceives us"? You mean "how the world perceives you" ;) .

I really did not understand that comment.

It is my opinion that the phrase "ugly American" was coined for a reason. I am often embarrassed by the behavior, the attitude and the appearance of Americans travelling aboard.

Last year at St. Peters in Rome, I was standing in line waiting to go through the metal detectors and in the next line was a family from the US. Despite the signs clearly stating what dress was not acceptable, these ill dressed parents and their children attempted to get past the guards and go into the church. When they were told for the second time that they would not be allowed in, the father became surly and cursed at the guard. Is this the exception? Perhaps, but I have seen this type of behavior fairly often while travelling. And I find it distasteful when I see Americans run around in shorts and tanks while visiting cities in Europe where this is not respectful.

I have heard many nasty comments in various countries when the food, service or what ever is not what these tourist expect. I do find it embarassing.

Just my personal experience in my travels to Europe, Asia and the islands.

Sassy Chassis · January 13, 2006

Being an Army Brat I've had the pleasure of living many years overseas. We traveled quite a bit all over Europe and did as much as we could to not "stick out" as being Americans, i.e. "targets". That has as much to do with your dress as your behavior. We always knew how we were supposed to dress when going into churches or other tourist places. Not everyone gets to have that experience growing up, however.

greatam · January 14, 2006

And I personally do not feel that was is on my back is a representation of my country. Your statement implied that people who dress badly or inappropriately are giving Americans a bad rep. But that is just my opinion.

I've also heard that Americans are not liked for their "capitalist attitude/values", well isn't nice expensive clothing, a capitalist value. Now don't get me wrong, I'm a card carrying capitalist. I love expensive desinger stuff and I love wearing nice clothes. I just don't think it's nice or fair to say that people who don't are ruining the reputation of the United States. I also believe in following the rules and dress codes.

Here you go again with the EXPENSIVE clothes thing. I said absolutely NOTHING about EXPENSIVE. In fact, for the third time, the most elegantly dressed woman on the ship personally told me she bought all her clothing at consignment shops and Ebay.