Flight connection times - big dilemna

[gilliansp]

We are flying  London - Vancouver - Anchorage with Air Canada in September. It was a great deal with only one change but now Air Canada has changed our flight times giving us only  40 minutes between flights. Is this possible - according to the airline it is , but I am doubtful - and there are no later direct flights. If we miss it we would have to wait till the following day. It is a dilemna and unsure what to do. We can cancel the outbound flight, penalty-free,  but not the inbound flight. Anyone had challenging experiences with Air Canada and Vancouver airport?

[d9704011]

Something strange there.  A 40 minute connection time violates Air Canada's own Minimum Connection Time for this scenario.

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/plan/check-in-information/minimum-connection-times.html#/

 

[John99]

 

  @gilliansp        Beside this thread you can post your questions on the “Cruise Air” board.

The Cruise Air board has page after page of comments, questions, ideas, etc. specific to air travel.  Check it out.  John 

[don't-use-real-name]

Yes Air Canada can change its schedule and they can change the connection times - - -

 

"BUT" !

 

From Air Canada's website:

 

For a smooth connection between flights,
it's important to give yourself adequate time
between the arrival of your first flight and
the departure of your next.
This time between flights is known as your
minimum connection time, and it’s needed
to allow for security checks and any terminal changes.

It’s important to respect the minimum connection time between flights.
Flights without an adequate connection time can’t be booked.

 

This 40 minute connection is therefore not legal - by Air Canada's rules !

Get your trip rebooked with one that is legal and sane !

International to international
Connecting through    Minimum Connection Time
Vancouver    60 min

From Canada to the U.S.
Connecting through    Minimum Connection Time
Vancouver    1 h 10 min

 

Factor in any Customs Immigration confounding paperwork visas issues etc.

 

Alternate if the London Vancouver flight misconnects with the Anchorage flight - - -

Go across the border to Seattle with many opportunities to get to Anchorage in the

same day.

 

Cruise Critic advice *****

Best move however would be to fly in a day ahead of time and have a time cushion in your favor.

[gilliansp]

15 hours ago, don't-use-real-name said:

Yes Air Canada can change its schedule and they can change the connection times - - -

 

"BUT" !

 

From Air Canada's website:

 

For a smooth connection between flights,
it's important to give yourself adequate time
between the arrival of your first flight and
the departure of your next.
This time between flights is known as your
minimum connection time, and it’s needed
to allow for security checks and any terminal changes.

It’s important to respect the minimum connection time between flights.
Flights without an adequate connection time can’t be booked.

 

This 40 minute connection is therefore not legal - by Air Canada's rules !

Get your trip rebooked with one that is legal and sane !

International to international
Connecting through    Minimum Connection Time
Vancouver    60 min

From Canada to the U.S.
Connecting through    Minimum Connection Time
Vancouver    1 h 10 min

 

Factor in any Customs Immigration confounding paperwork visas issues etc.

 

Alternate if the London Vancouver flight misconnects with the Anchorage flight - - -

Go across the border to Seattle with many opportunities to get to Anchorage in the

same day.

 

Cruise Critic advice *****

Best move however would be to fly in a day ahead of time and have a time cushion in your favor.

Thanks for the advice. I was also thinking of asking the airline to change London - Vancouver flight to the day before and stay overnight in Vanouver. However, they are insisting its possible to do in 40 minutes! 

[gilliansp]

23 hours ago, John99 said:

 

  @gilliansp        Beside this thread you can post your questions on the “Cruise Air” board.

The Cruise Air board has page after page of comments, questions, ideas, etc. specific to air travel.  Check it out.  John 

Thanks, will do!

[d9704011]

2 hours ago, gilliansp said:

Thanks for the advice. I was also thinking of asking the airline to change London - Vancouver flight to the day before and stay overnight in Vanouver. However, they are insisting its possible to do in 40 minutes! 

Maybe they're just planning on holding the flight until all connecting passengers are onboard.  That aircraft simply turns around in ANC and comes back an hour or so after it lands.... sort of like a shuttle service.  For sure, it's better than cooling your heels at YVR overnight!

Edited March 31, 2022 by d9704011

[don't-use-real-name]

33 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

Maybe they're just planning on holding the flight until all connecting passengers are onboard.  That aircraft simply turns around in ANC and comes back an hour or so after it lands.... sort of like a shuttle service.  For sure, it's better than cooling your heels at YVR overnight!

NOT likely UNLESS there is a majority of connecting passengers - !

Hope that the connecting flight is at the adjacent gate and not terminal.

 

And bad planning counting on making up time at the turn around airport/station -

The Murphy's Law domino effect - When something is LATE it will continue to be LATE

 

AND ANOTHER THING the LUGGAGE - hope it makes the connection TOO !

 

 

[Lane Hog]

Career airline guy here..... that violates the international to international minimum connect time. 

Pretty certain you'll need to go thru US Customs pre-clearance at YVR, so 40 minutes isn't enough time to get off the plane, claim your bags, go thru Customs, and then board your flight.  They need to rebook you on something that's a legal connection.

I don't know Air Canada's rules, but on my airline if there was a schedule change that caused more than a 4 hour delay from the intended arrival time, you'd be entitled to an involuntary refund even on a non-refundable ticket.  If you're an EU national, there may be other rules in effect that would allow you to a full refund or even compensation.

Edited March 31, 2022 by Lane Hog

[d9704011]

1 hour ago, Lane Hog said:

Career airline guy here..... that violates the international to international minimum connect time. 

Pretty certain you'll need to go thru US Customs pre-clearance at YVR, so 40 minutes isn't enough time to get off the plane, claim your bags, go thru Customs, and then board your flight.  They need to rebook you on something that's a legal connection.

I don't know Air Canada's rules, but on my airline if there was a schedule change that caused more than a 4 hour delay from the intended arrival time, you'd be entitled to an involuntary refund even on a non-refundable ticket.  If you're an EU national, there may be other rules in effect that would allow you to a full refund or even compensation.

There is no need to collect baggage when making an Air Canada connection from an international flight to a US flight.  For sure the passenger will have to clear US Immigration in YVR but that ought to be pretty seamless.  I'd take the word of Air Canada on this and go with the flights,  especially if the traveler got a good deal on the price.

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/at-the-airport/airport-information/vancouver-Int-airport/int-us.html#/

[Lane Hog]

Admittedly, it's been a while since I've flown pre-clearance out of Canada. 

However... 40 minutes is not a reasonable connection time.  Air Canada requires 70m for international to US at YVR (which I know has been shared at least twice already...)

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/plan/check-in-information/minimum-connection-times.html#/

Do not agree to a flight that violates the minimum connect times... they exist for a reason.
 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Lane Hog

[don't-use-real-name]

50 minutes ago, d9704011 said:

There is no need to collect baggage when making an Air Canada connection from an international flight to a US flight.  For sure the passenger will have to clear US Immigration in YVR but that ought to be pretty seamless.  I'd take the word of Air Canada on this and go with the flights,  especially if the traveler got a good deal on the price.

https://www.aircanada.com/ca/en/aco/home/fly/at-the-airport/airport-information/vancouver-Int-airport/int-us.html#/

There is no need to collect baggage when making an Air Canada connection from an international flight to a US flight. 

Problem with that is that passengers have feet to move from one flight to the other albeit

timely connection or not - LUGGAGE on the other hand needs human input to move from the

belly of one airplane to another - timelyness is imperative to have enough time to do the

transfer regardless of any if at all customs claiming rechecking -

Normally the customs immigration etc. reclaiming of luggage will be at the termination point

of the itinerary without a lay/stop over.

 

"BUT WHAT IF"

 

Horrors not having any luggage clothing to board the ship because of lack of time in the

transfer sequence -

This is why it is important to have enough time to arrive a day early to have all the loose

ends catch up.

 

You probably have a real deal on the airfare London to Vancouver to Anchorage -

But if NCL or other cruise line is offering free or reduced airfare it is what it is ! 

A better routing would have been London - Seattle - Anchorage with a great deal more

alternative possibilities.

Other connective routings New York Detroit Chicago Minneapolis/St.Paul

[Lane Hog]

Air Canada should be able to reroute via United if they don't have a legal connection available.  The two have a Joint Venture over the Atlantic if I recall.  

[gilliansp]

9 hours ago, Lane Hog said:

Career airline guy here..... that violates the international to international minimum connect time. 

Pretty certain you'll need to go thru US Customs pre-clearance at YVR, so 40 minutes isn't enough time to get off the plane, claim your bags, go thru Customs, and then board your flight.  They need to rebook you on something that's a legal connection.

I don't know Air Canada's rules, but on my airline if there was a schedule change that caused more than a 4 hour delay from the intended arrival time, you'd be entitled to an involuntary refund even on a non-refundable ticket.  If you're an EU national, there may be other rules in effect that would allow you to a full refund or even compensation.

I think you are right.Whilst it would be lovely to get a ticket refund I think that it definitely makes more sense to have the correct flight connection timings so that we reach our final desrtination on schedule. Many thanks for your advice

[gilliansp]

26 minutes ago, Lane Hog said:

Air Canada should be able to reroute via United if they don't have a legal connection available.  The two have a Joint Venture over the Atlantic if I recall.  

Good to know, thanks

[gilliansp]

7 hours ago, don't-use-real-name said:

There is no need to collect baggage when making an Air Canada connection from an international flight to a US flight. 

Problem with that is that passengers have feet to move from one flight to the other albeit

timely connection or not - LUGGAGE on the other hand needs human input to move from the

belly of one airplane to another - timelyness is imperative to have enough time to do the

transfer regardless of any if at all customs claiming rechecking -

Normally the customs immigration etc. reclaiming of luggage will be at the termination point

of the itinerary without a lay/stop over.

 

"BUT WHAT IF"

 

Horrors not having any luggage clothing to board the ship because of lack of time in the

transfer sequence -

This is why it is important to have enough time to arrive a day early to have all the loose

ends catch up.

 

You probably have a real deal on the airfare London to Vancouver to Anchorage -

But if NCL or other cruise line is offering free or reduced airfare it is what it is ! 

A better routing would have been London - Seattle - Anchorage with a great deal more

alternative possibilities.

Other connective routings New York Detroit Chicago Minneapolis/St.Paul

You are absoultely right. The original offer and flight timings were actually the best I found at the time.

[d9704011]

9 hours ago, don't-use-real-name said:

There is no need to collect baggage when making an Air Canada connection from an international flight to a US flight. 

Problem with that is that passengers have feet to move from one flight to the other albeit

timely connection or not - LUGGAGE on the other hand needs human input to move from the

belly of one airplane to another -

The traveler won't be boarding the connecting flight to ANC without his/her luggage.  US Immigration won't permit that sort of 'independent' travel.

[Lane Hog]

4 hours ago, d9704011 said:

The traveler won't be boarding the connecting flight to ANC without his/her luggage.  US Immigration won't permit that sort of 'independent' travel.

 

You've got it a bit backward.  Bags won't travel without a customer onboard on an international flight, but they can under some circumstances on a domestic flight and flights from Canada to the US are treated as domestic because of preclearance.

 

Baggage misses the connecting flight close to a couple hundred times a day just on the Big Four US airlines...

 

If the airline knows a specific bag hasn't been loaded, they might give the customer notice that it's missing, but they don't stop the customer from traveling.

 

CBP doesn't care what once the passenger has presented docs to enter the country.

[gilliansp]

8 hours ago, gilliansp said:

I think you are right.Whilst it would be lovely to get a ticket refund I think that it definitely makes more sense to have the correct flight connection timings so that we reach our final desrtination on schedule. Many thanks for your advice

Hi again,

Just wanted to thank you again for your valuable advice. Worked wonders with the airline! Once I mentioned the illegalities of the changed flights that they had given me etc etc, they were more than happy to amend the reservation. So now, although  I have a much longer flight schedule, with an extra flight change, at least we have enough time to make the connections and arrive in Anchorage on time.

[d9704011]

2 hours ago, Lane Hog said:

 

You've got it a bit backward.  Bags won't travel without a customer onboard on an international flight, but they can under some circumstances on a domestic flight and flights from Canada to the US are treated as domestic because of preclearance.

 

Baggage misses the connecting flight close to a couple hundred times a day just on the Big Four US airlines...

 

If the airline knows a specific bag hasn't been loaded, they might give the customer notice that it's missing, but they don't stop the customer from traveling.

 

CBP doesn't care what once the passenger has presented docs to enter the country.

Not if my recent experience in Toronto is any indicator.  Flew Air Canada from Ottawa to Toronto with a connecting flight to the US.  Bags are checked through, never saw them.  However, the passenger cools his heels in a waiting area to have their name displayed on a screen prior to presenting themselves to CBP for immigration clearance.  The wait is tied to the passenger's luggage having been cleared through.

 

I see the OP has changed flights to avoid all of this so that's resolved his/her issue.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by d9704011

[Lane Hog]

1 hour ago, d9704011 said:

Not if my recent experience in Toronto is any indicator.  Flew Air Canada from Ottawa to Toronto with a connecting flight to the US.  Bags are checked through, never saw them.  However, the passenger cools his heels in a waiting area to have their name displayed on a screen prior to presenting themselves to CBP for immigration clearance.  The wait is tied to the passenger's luggage having been cleared through.

 

OK... If your bag never shows up at Customs, there's a protocol to allow you to clear and  proceed onward.  Bags get delayed and lost in transit.  You don't leave people stuck in Canada if the bag is missing.  They move on, and the bag has to be cleared separately when it shows up.

 

Glad the OP got new flights.  The way airline scheduling works, it could change multiple times up to 30 days from departure.