Freestyle Alternatives

[cruiseny4life]

I have two cruises currently booked with NCL. One leaves on Saturday. The other in March. After that, nothing! 

 

As I look to the future of cruising, I am wondering what alternatives there are. I do hope this topic stays on the NCL board as I'm asking experienced NCL cruisers, specifically, what lines they have looked at, and/or are cruising in the future that offer a similar experience to NCL's Haven.

 

Why am I looking?

 

Well, first, variety is the spice of life. I appreciate new adventures and experiences.

 

But, NCL's changes have me thinking I should branch out. You'll notice some of the changes below wouldn't impact me as I do cruise exclusively in the Haven (not saying this to brag, but to help guide recommendations to a ship that is more in line with my cruising taste), but I'm fearful changes may cascade to the Haven.

 

1. The increase in the Daily Service Charge from $18.50 to $25 for the Haven in less than a year. 

1a. The claim by Frankie boy that NCL will continue to squeeze as many pennies as possible out of customers (one of those things most, if not all lines do). I suppose I should give him props for being honest about this.

2. The reduction in specialty dining from three meals to two for Haven guests on a week-long cruise.

3. A probable decrease in the number of staff due to the change from Jr. Stateroom Attendant's to Stateroom Attendants. This tells me NCL is doing an onboard reduction in force, but it'll be voluntary as the more experienced, better compensated staff leave due to a salary decrease.

3a. (I didn't want to re-number the list) Turndown only once a day for those not in the Haven (again, I understand it doesn't impact me, but I care how a company treats all its' customers).

4. Charging a fee for continental breakfast to those outside the Haven.

5. Marketing department that touts a lot of outright lies. I know this one is controversial as NCL hides behind its terms and conditions and experience Cruise Critic'ers expect everyone to review T&C's all the time. New cruisers don't necessarily realize they must examine the T&C's with a magnifying glass. I also understand many, if not all, cruise lines do this. This just comes down to integrity. 

6. Port changes, like what's going on in the DR right now, cruise amenity changes, and other changes that impact the cruise without any advance notice from the cruise line. I'd include the supposed supply chain issues in regard to Premium Plus (even though I don't purchase Premium Plus) and entertainment just suddenly not available. 

7. BBB rating of NCL. It's despicable.

 

 

Here is what is important to me, and what I hope to find on a future cruise line:

 

1. The Haven concept, whether it's ship-within-a-ship or the entire ship is Haven-like (smaller, more luxurious lines). 

2. Having access to a thermal suite. 

3. Frequent posters will know my disdain for putting pants and collared shirts on. Don't let this inhibit you from suggesting another line, except a Cunard-style put the penguin suit on type of cruise.

4. Northeast embarkation ports. I suppose flying is ok (we're flying in March), but I like the freedom to travel to NYC, Boston, even Baltimore by car, rather than flying. 

5. Communication from the cruise line when something changes, whether it's amenities, beverage package changes, ports, etc.

6. As all-inclusive a fare as possible.

 

I do know that Disney Cruise Line is off limits to me as I do not appreciate that concierge class has no "Haven"-like area and it's a big ship. I'm thinking Virgin probably isn't for me either, as my husband and I are Millennials, but we're not sex-obsessed Millennials. 

 

I'm sure I have a lot more points to both lists above, but this is a good start. 

[prmssk]

The main three ship within a ship competitors are NCL Haven, MSC Yacht Club, and Celebrity Retreat (especially on Edge class ships). MSC Yacht Club includes some access to the spa/thermal suite and within Celebrity’s Retreat, Aqua Sky Suites include access to the spa. FYI - I have experience in the Retreat, am booked in the Yacht Club coming up, but have yet to sail Haven because the prices have been too high for what I was looking for so I’m not a good person to compare all three yet. 
 

Other cruise lines are starting to come out with similar concepts. Royal Caribbean has the Star Class on their newest ships and with the Wonder even included a dedicated sun deck for suites. Princess looks like it will have a similar concept on the latest ship they announced will be coming. 

[BirdTravels]

1 hour ago, cruiseny4life said:

I have two cruises currently booked with NCL. One leaves on Saturday. The other in March. After that, nothing! 

 

As I look to the future of cruising, I am wondering what alternatives there are. I do hope this topic stays on the NCL board as I'm asking experienced NCL cruisers, specifically, what lines they have looked at, and/or are cruising in the future that offer a similar experience to NCL's Haven.

 

Why am I looking?

 

Well, first, variety is the spice of life. I appreciate new adventures and experiences.

 

But, NCL's changes have me thinking I should branch out. You'll notice some of the changes below wouldn't impact me as I do cruise exclusively in the Haven (not saying this to brag, but to help guide recommendations to a ship that is more in line with my cruising taste), but I'm fearful changes may cascade to the Haven.

 

1. The increase in the Daily Service Charge from $18.50 to $25 for the Haven in less than a year. 

1a. The claim by Frankie boy that NCL will continue to squeeze as many pennies as possible out of customers (one of those things most, if not all lines do). I suppose I should give him props for being honest about this.

2. The reduction in specialty dining from three meals to two for Haven guests on a week-long cruise.

3. A probable decrease in the number of staff due to the change from Jr. Stateroom Attendant's to Stateroom Attendants. This tells me NCL is doing an onboard reduction in force, but it'll be voluntary as the more experienced, better compensated staff leave due to a salary decrease.

3a. (I didn't want to re-number the list) Turndown only once a day for those not in the Haven (again, I understand it doesn't impact me, but I care how a company treats all its' customers).

4. Charging a fee for continental breakfast to those outside the Haven.

5. Marketing department that touts a lot of outright lies. I know this one is controversial as NCL hides behind its terms and conditions and experience Cruise Critic'ers expect everyone to review T&C's all the time. New cruisers don't necessarily realize they must examine the T&C's with a magnifying glass. I also understand many, if not all, cruise lines do this. This just comes down to integrity. 

6. Port changes, like what's going on in the DR right now, cruise amenity changes, and other changes that impact the cruise without any advance notice from the cruise line. I'd include the supposed supply chain issues in regard to Premium Plus (even though I don't purchase Premium Plus) and entertainment just suddenly not available. 

7. BBB rating of NCL. It's despicable.

 

 

Here is what is important to me, and what I hope to find on a future cruise line:

 

1. The Haven concept, whether it's ship-within-a-ship or the entire ship is Haven-like (smaller, more luxurious lines). 

2. Having access to a thermal suite. 

3. Frequent posters will know my disdain for putting pants and collared shirts on. Don't let this inhibit you from suggesting another line, except a Cunard-style put the penguin suit on type of cruise.

4. Northeast embarkation ports. I suppose flying is ok (we're flying in March), but I like the freedom to travel to NYC, Boston, even Baltimore by car, rather than flying. 

5. Communication from the cruise line when something changes, whether it's amenities, beverage package changes, ports, etc.

6. As all-inclusive a fare as possible.

 

I do know that Disney Cruise Line is off limits to me as I do not appreciate that concierge class has no "Haven"-like area and it's a big ship. I'm thinking Virgin probably isn't for me either, as my husband and I are Millennials, but we're not sex-obsessed Millennials. 

 

I'm sure I have a lot more points to both lists above, but this is a good start. 

So,,, the grass is not greener on the other side. The “changes” are common across the cruise industry in one shape or form. And lines caters to certain markets. 
 

We would never book a Disney. 
 

While we are sapphire-equivalent level on Cunard and love to cruise in their Grill class, we enjoy the Haven a lot more (for less money). 
 

We cruise equally on NCL and Royal right now. Royal is really annoying sending 5-9 “sale sale sale” emails a week from the day you book until departure day. And adding their beverage package and specialty dining package costs much more than NCL. And their choices are not great. 

[Two Wheels Only]

I haven't sailed Celebrity Retreat but I can give compare/contrast opinions for Haven vs Yacht Club. 

 

 

1. Daily Service Charge/Hotel Service/Charge/Gratuity "whatever they want to call it" Charge

NCL Haven  - $25pppd

Celebrity Retreat - $21pppd

MSC Yacht Club - $14pppd (12 and older), $7pppd (2-11), varies by cruise location. 

 

2. Specialty Dining

NCL Haven  -  ̶u̶n̶l̶i̶m̶i̶t̶e̶d̶,̶ ̶4̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶l̶s̶,̶ ̶3̶ ̶m̶e̶a̶l̶s̶,̶ ̶  2 meals for 7 night cruise (changes from 2016 to now).

Celebrity Retreat - not really needed since Luminae menu changes daily.

MSC Yacht Club - not really needed since Yacht Club menu changes daily. 

 

3. Should be the same for all 3. The roles are slightly different but all are probably close as far as turn down type of service. 

 

4. No room service fee for Haven, Retreat, or Yacht Club. 

 

5. Every cruise line has CYA language in the terms. 

 

6. MSC is probably at the bottom as far as informing guests of changes. I can't comment on where Celebrity is compared to NCL. 

 

7. Uhhhh, 😨

 

 

1 hour ago, cruiseny4life said:

Here is what is important to me, and what I hope to find on a future cruise line:

 

1. Retreat, Yacht Club, Suite Neighborhood (RCCL newest ships). If you are the adventurous type and are willing to try a new line, look to Explora Journeys (owned by MSC). It's touted as a Yacht Club but the entire ship. I'm waiting on some more information and reviews before I book Explora. 

 

2. Some Retreat Suites have Spa access.

Yacht Club includes Spa access. 

 

3. This could be an issue. Haven is the most casual as far as dress. A tuxedo isn't required on any of them but MSC and Celebrity request a bit more than NCL. 

 

4. Florida tends to get the newest ships and for Celebrity, I suggest sticking with the EDGE ships or future ships. The older ships with a Retreat "added" don't really impress me. MSC's Meraviglia sails out of NY and even though it's about 5 years old, I enjoyed the ship more than I thought that I would. 

 

5. Uhhhh 😨

 

6. One way or another, you pay for what you get. Whether it's getting a drink package as a promo and paying the service charges (NCL) or it's getting the drink package included with the Retreat/Yacht Club, you pay. I only look at the bottom line and compare what I am getting to what I am paying. I don't care if it's a $1 cruise with $999 in service charges or if it's a $999 cruise with $1 in service charges. 

[Seas2mountains]

We did try MSC Yacht Club before Covid. We have been on 17 NCL cruises in the past 7 years for reference and will likely not cruise again on MSC.  We liked the food during the day but honestly the Haven restaurant was better IMO especially for dinner. Night time snacks on MSC were disappointing but some people on our cruise loved the high tea service each afternoon.  The lounge area was beautiful and while they did bring in nightly entertainment, we like going to entertainment options on NCL better. We were not fans of the other entertainment options on MSC.  

 

The MSC thermal spa while it was nice, it seemed more crowded than NCL thermal spas. We loved the outdoor grill on the Yacht Club pool area for breakfast and lunch. Their outdoor pool area is much better than the older NCL ship Haven areas. 
 

I highly recommend trying MSC Yacht Club to see if you like it. Some former Haven cruisers prefer it and don’t go back to the Haven. And some like us tried it but won’t go back on MSC.  We have been meaning to try Celebrity but keep going back to NCL for various reasons. We have also tried Princess and HAL but likely won’t cruise with either of them again. 
 

 

[Two Wheels Only]

8 minutes ago, Seas2mountains said:

I highly recommend trying MSC Yacht Club to see if you like it. Some former Haven cruisers prefer it and don’t go back to the Haven. And some like us tried it but won’t go back on MSC.

 

I've seen both opinions and totally understand. There are some things that Haven does better than Yacht Club and there are some things that Yacht Club does better than Haven. 

 

I'm one of the people who enjoys both and continue to sail both. 

[wcook]

I’ve been sailing MSC lately and really like it. Unfortunately, I can’t say much about the Yacht club as they don’t let riffraff like me in the place. I will say the thermal spa areas on the new ships are wonderful. 

[cruiseat50]

11 hours ago, cruiseny4life said:

2. The reduction in specialty dining from three meals to two for Haven guests on a week-long cruise.

 

Are you saying that Haven guests get 2 meals in specialty dining because they are in the Haven?  I know we get 2 meals from our Latitudes rewards plan but have never gotten specialty dining privileges for being in the Haven.

 

[BirdTravels]

1 hour ago, cruiseat50 said:

Are you saying that Haven guests get 2 meals in specialty dining because they are in the Haven?  I know we get 2 meals from our Latitudes rewards plan but have never gotten specialty dining privileges for being in the Haven.

 

Two meal Free at Sea. Plus two meal Latitude. There is enough on the Haven menu to eat their nightly w/o the specialty dining.
 

The Haven Restaurant is tremendously better than RCL Costal Kitchen food which, on our Quantum cruise earlier this year, was buffet rejects. We actually walked out of the CK into the buffet to get decent food. 

[zzdoug]

18 hours ago, cruiseny4life said:

 

I'm thinking Virgin probably isn't for me either, as my husband and I are Millennials, but we're not sex-obsessed Millennials. 

What exactly is happening on those cruises? If it's what I infer you're implying, the brand name isn't very descriptive. 

 

I have not taken a Virgin cruise and have no plans to, but the vibe I was getting from TV commercials was "loud new wave music/fashion show".

Edited December 30, 2022 by zzdoug

[cruiseny4life]

2 hours ago, zzdoug said:

What exactly is happening on those cruises? If it's what I infer you're implying, the brand name isn't very descriptive. 

 

I have not taken a Virgin cruise and have no plans to, but the vibe I was getting from TV commercials was "loud new wave music/fashion show".

Hahaha I'm just going off of what I've from various podcasts and vlogs. La Lido Loca, Ben and David, Always Be Booked, etc....it could be a completely virgin trip, but I'm thinking it's a good time for those that enjoy non-traditional play. 

[cruiseny4life]

7 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Two meal Free at Sea. Plus two meal Latitude. There is enough on the Haven menu to eat their nightly w/o the specialty dining.
 

The Haven Restaurant is tremendously better than RCL Costal Kitchen food which, on our Quantum cruise earlier this year, was buffet rejects. We actually walked out of the CK into the buffet to get decent food. 

Wow! I've heard Coastal Kitchen is not great. You Birds and I seem to have similar food tastes (based on your lives), so I'd definitely be willing to trust your food recommendations....food is subjective blah, blah, blah disclaimer here. 

 

You are completely right about being able to eat in the Haven every night, but I do appreciate a little variety. Chicken cordon bleu in the main dining room, Shanghai Noodle Bar (those pot stickers mmm), and a specialty dining or two. Other than death by a thousand cuts, I'd be ok with NCL reducing Haven specialty dining through the Free at Sea offering. 

[cruiseny4life]

19 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

We cruise equally on NCL and Royal right now. Royal is really annoying sending 5-9 “sale sale sale” emails a week from the day you book until departure day. And adding their beverage package and specialty dining package costs much more than NCL. And their choices are not great. 

Those sale emails have got to be really annoying! I receive, maybe an email a week, from NCL (general marketing). That's annoying enough! 

 

I've seen their beverage packages are not so great, though I do appreciate they have one for non-drinkers that includes mocktails and coffee. 

[cruiseny4life]

17 hours ago, Two Wheels Only said:

6. One way or another, you pay for what you get. Whether it's getting a drink package as a promo and paying the service charges (NCL) or it's getting the drink package included with the Retreat/Yacht Club, you pay. I only look at the bottom line and compare what I am getting to what I am paying. I don't care if it's a $1 cruise with $999 in service charges or if it's a $999 cruise with $1 in service charges. 

I think this is the crux of my entire decision-making here. I want to pay the least, for the most amount of service. Just like a company wants to make the most, for the least amount of service. 

 

But, I would like to deal with ethical companies as well. NCL isn't ethical. Look at the top - nepotism, refusal to cut bonuses, etc. Unfortunately, I understand other companies are like this. That's why I'm on a quest to find a decent cruise line that offers a similar experience to NCL's Haven. I don't want to hear it's impossible, but perhaps it is.

 

Btw, your 😨s cracked me up!

[cruiseat50]

9 hours ago, BirdTravels said:

Two meal Free at Sea. Plus two meal Latitude. There is enough on the Haven menu to eat their nightly w/o the specialty dining.
 

The Haven Restaurant is tremendously better than RCL Costal Kitchen food which, on our Quantum cruise earlier this year, was buffet rejects. We actually walked out of the CK into the buffet to get decent food. 

  23 hours ago, cruiseny4life said:

2. The reduction in specialty dining from three meals to two for Haven guests on a week-long cruise.

 

Are you saying that Haven guests get 2 meals in specialty dining because they are in the Haven?  I know we get 2 meals from our Latitudes rewards plan but have never gotten specialty dining privileges for being in the Haven.

 

I was asking as they state the reduction in specialty dining from 3 to 2 for Haven guests which didn't make sense.

[Two Wheels Only]

5 minutes ago, cruiseat50 said:

I was asking as they state the reduction in specialty dining from 3 to 2 for Haven guests which didn't make sense.

 

The OP meant that the promo has gone down for everyone including Haven guests. NCL used to automatically give Haven bookings ALL current promos without any additional service charges. Then, slowly but surely, NCL started reducing things. Promo specialty dining dropped from unlimited uses to the current 2 for 7 night cruises. Haven guests were then charged the promo service charges (15%, 18%, 20%) on the beverage package (UBP/PBP) and on the dining package (UDP/SDP). Haven guests had to select/deselect what promo that they wanted/didn't want. Promos such as wi-fi and excursion credit are still included for Haven guests at no extra charge. 

 

Haven guests are sometimes given a discount on embarkation day at a specialty restaurant but this is more to relieve the burden on the Haven restaurant (50% off at Food Republic, for example). 

 

[cruiseny4life]

28 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

The OP meant that the promo has gone down for everyone including Haven guests. NCL used to automatically give Haven bookings ALL current promos without any additional service charges. Then, slowly but surely, NCL started reducing things. Promo specialty dining dropped from unlimited uses to the current 2 for 7 night cruises. Haven guests were then charged the promo service charges (15%, 18%, 20%) on the beverage package (UBP/PBP) and on the dining package (UDP/SDP). Haven guests had to select/deselect what promo that they wanted/didn't want. Promos such as wi-fi and excursion credit are still included for Haven guests at no extra charge. 

 

Haven guests are sometimes given a discount on embarkation day at a specialty restaurant but this is more to relieve the burden on the Haven restaurant (50% off at Food Republic, for example). 

 

@cruiseat50, @Two Wheels Onlydescribed what I intended perfectly! 

 

The only addition I'd add, is that on the Getaway (can't speak for other ships), Haven guests do receive an included meal at American Diner on embarkation day. There's a 100% discount on the meal. Still have to pay for milkshakes though!

[Two Wheels Only]

9 minutes ago, cruiseny4life said:

The only addition I'd add, is that on the Getaway (can't speak for other ships), Haven guests do receive an included meal at American Diner on embarkation day. There's a 100% discount on the meal. Still have to pay for milkshakes though!

 

The embarkation day "deal" can vary by ship/concierge. I remember when it was free at Margaritaville....because Margaritaville was almost always empty. 😄

[BirdTravels]

57 minutes ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

The OP meant that the promo has gone down for everyone including Haven guests. NCL used to automatically give Haven bookings ALL current promos without any additional service charges. Then, slowly but surely, NCL started reducing things. Promo specialty dining dropped from unlimited uses to the current 2 for 7 night cruises. Haven guests were then charged the promo service charges (15%, 18%, 20%) on the beverage package (UBP/PBP) and on the dining package (UDP/SDP). Haven guests had to select/deselect what promo that they wanted/didn't want. Promos such as wi-fi and excursion credit are still included for Haven guests at no extra charge. 

 

Haven guests are sometimes given a discount on embarkation day at a specialty restaurant but this is more to relieve the burden on the Haven restaurant (50% off at Food Republic, for example). 

 

Haven guest have never been charged less for Free at Sea than steerage. When the UDP was an uncharged option for all guests, steerage and Haven both got it for free. As soon as NCL started charging grats on the beverage and SDP, steerage and Haven guests were charged the grats. 
 

Yes, Haven guests used to be able to select “All 5” promotions while steerage was “Select 2”. 
 

Yup, promotions change over time. Heck, when I open my Macy’s ad, I get something different “free” every week. And the expectation should be nothing less for any other business. 
 

Do you remember when Free Photos was a promotion?  The poor photo labs could not keep up and that money loser was discontinued in less than a month. 
 

You still see “Guests 3+ sail free” from time to time. In August, our neighbor was in a 2 BR Haven and had six adults in the room. At the time of booking, guest 3-6 paid port charges and also got the beverage package. The two of us were happy in our 2 BR without all of the extra people. 
 

In August, we got free American Diner on embarkation day. We had lunch on the Haven Restaurant and stopped by the Am Diner for take out lobster/shrimp rolls and shakes for sail away on our balcony. Our shakes were included free. 

Edited December 30, 2022 by BirdTravels

[Two Wheels Only]

45 minutes ago, BirdTravels said:

Haven guest have never been charged less for Free at Sea than steerage. When the UDP was an uncharged option for all guests, steerage and Haven both got it for free. As soon as NCL started charging grats on the beverage and SDP, steerage and Haven guests were charged the grats. 

 

That's incorrect. There was a time (2016?- June, 2017) when Haven/suite guests were not charged the 18% service charge on the promos while those not staying in the Haven/suite were charged on the promo. 

 

 

Guest is responsible for 18% gratuities & service charges on the retail value of the Ultimate Beverage Package and/or Soda Package prior to cruise, except when booking a Haven or Suite. - T&C

Edited December 30, 2022 by Two Wheels Only

[wcook]

NCL is absolutely not charging an 18% gratuity. 20% sure, but not 18 🙂

[Two Wheels Only]

13 minutes ago, wcook said:

NCL is absolutely not charging an 18% gratuity. 20% sure, but not 18 🙂

 

Back then (2017) it was 18%. Haven guests were not charged for the promo while non-Haven guests were. Then, NCL started charging Haven guests the same as everyone else.

[Seas2mountains]

Never say never. I did not think we would cruise MSC again based on our previous Yacht Club experience as we love so many amenities provided by NCL.  But the weather for the land vacation we picked for next weekend did not look good and was unseasonably cold. So we checked out available cruises and picked MSC Divina for 01/13/23 -01/16/23 in Yacht Club. Very excited to cruise and looking forward to hopefully will be two days at Ocean Cay. 
 

I might do a live review.