Very Specific Casino Question

[Calnev1]

Hello.   I am an avid blackjack player, particularly of a variant called “Fun 21” which I have played across multiple Carnival ships.  I have some questions about Fun 21 blackjack.   (If you don’t play blackjack aboard Carnival ships, you might want to skip the rest of this post.)

 

I got off the Miracle just two weeks ago, and I am aboard the Panorama right now.  The casinos in both ships have been recently renovated.  The renovations seem almost identical . . .  but not quite identical.  Specifically,  on the Panorama all the card-based table games are now dealt from a machine (including Fun 21, which until recently had been dealt from a shoe).  On the Miracle, however, Fun 21 is still being hand shuffled and dealt from a shoe.  

 

This seems strange to me, and in the case of the Panorama, disturbing.  I don’t like card games dealt from a machine, and until recently I could rest assured that at least the Fun 21 game would be dealt from a shoe in every Carnival casino.  Well, obviously not on the Panorama anymore .  . . but still on the Miracle.  So I am wondering, why wasn’t the renovation consistent as between the Panorama and the Miracle?  And more importantly, what other Carnival ships with renovated casinos still deal Fun 21 from a shoe?

 

If you are a blackjack player who has cruised in a Carnival ship recently and have noticed the new renovations, can you post the name of the ship and whether Fun 21 is still dealt from a shoe on that ship?  You can easily tell if your ship has undergone these renovations.  If renovated, all the card-based table games will now have a large digital sign advertising certain bets that pay “$200,000” and “$100,000” jackpots. 

 

Thanks for your input.  Any info is greatly appreciated because in the future I will avoid the Panorama and any other Carnival ship that does not give me a shoe-dealt blackjack option.

[mz-s]

The casino does a lot of ship-specific things to test before rolling out fleetwide, or cancelling. For example just before COVID (like 2 cruises before the shutdown) on the Sunshine they had a 000 position on roulette. It's been reported here that on some ships there are no more $6 tables, even Fun21 was $10 minimum on their ships and sailings. Depending on guest reaction, these changes will either be cancelled or rolled out fleetwide.

 

As of September 2022, Fun21 was still a shoe-based game on Sunshine. I played it a ton on that cruise.

 

I have not sailed Carnival since so I am not sure if that's changed.

 

Like you, I like a shoe-based game. I don't count, I wouldn't want to anyway (I have no allusions about beating the house). I just like that there's a built-in break every little bit to stand up, use the restroom, etc.

[Calnev1]

5 minutes ago, mz-s said:

The casino does a lot of ship-specific things to test before rolling out fleetwide, or cancelling. For example just before COVID (like 2 cruises before the shutdown) on the Sunshine they had a 000 position on roulette. It's been reported here that on some ships there are no more $6 tables, even Fun21 was $10 minimum on their ships and sailings. Depending on guest reaction, these changes will either be cancelled or rolled out fleetwide.

 

As of September 2022, Fun21 was still a shoe-based game on Sunshine. I played it a ton on that cruise.

 

I have not sailed Carnival since so I am not sure if that's changed.

 

Like you, I like a shoe-based game. I don't count, I wouldn't want to anyway (I have no allusions about beating the house). I just like that there's a built-in break every little bit to stand up, use the restroom, etc.

Thanks for the input.  And yes the minimum bet on Fun 21 on both the Miracle and Panorama is now $1O.  Out of curiosity, on your Sunshine sailing, had the $200,000 and $100,000 bets been installed at the table games? 

Edited May 24, 2023 by Calnev1

[mz-s]

4 minutes ago, Calnev1 said:

Thanks for the input.  And yes the minimum bet on Fun 21 on both the Miracle and Panorama is now $1O.  Out of curiosity, on your Sunshine sailing, had the $200,000 and $100,000 bets been installed at the table games? 

 

No but they were still doing the 50th celebration. Once the 50th ended they started this new promotion is my understanding.

[ChuckF]

IMHO, I think Carnival, as well as many other land-based casinos, are moving more and more to the shuffle machines that theoretically never have to stop the action. That seems to increase their games/hour rate, which in turn theoretically results in more money for the casino. It's not surprising that you're seeing this rolled out on the larger ships sooner where it will have more impact. I was recently on Magic, and it seemed that most tables had the machine. I can't help but feel suspicious that something funny is going on down there in that machine. I personally don't like Fun 21 so I can't speak specifically to that question. 

[rellersi]

just off the horizon last week and the fun-21 was still shoe, regular blackjack was maching

 

[Calnev1]

2 hours ago, ChuckF said:

 I was recently on Magic, and it seemed that most tables had the machine. I can't help but feel suspicious that something funny is going on down there in that machine. 

A lot of people feel that way about the machines.  I know I do.

[Calnev1]

4 hours ago, mz-s said:

 For example just before COVID (like 2 cruises before the shutdown) on the Sunshine they had a 000 position on roulette.

So there were three "casino wins it all" numbers on the Sunshine?  0, 00, and 000?  I don't play Roulette, but that is TOTALLY customer unfriendly.

[mz-s]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the machines, I just like that with a shoe there's a natural break every 20 minutes or whatever to stand up, use the restroom, etc.

[mz-s]

Just now, Calnev1 said:

So there were three "casino wins it all" numbers on the Sunshine?  0, 00, and 000?  I don't play Roulette, but that is TOTALLY customer unfriendly.

 

Yes, but that 000 was gone as of the COVID restart. It was there like I said 2 cruises before the shutdown (although of course none of us knew what was to come). As part of the restart the 000 position on the roulette wheel was gone. Thank goodness!

 

I don't know if they were just testing the 000 on the Sunshine or some other ships or if it was a fleetwide change - either way, it was reverted.

[south-carolinagirl]

Just off Sunshine last week, fun 21 still dealt from shoe with $10 min bet 

[Buckeye_Siggy]

Carnival Legend - off the ship April 9th -  Fun 21 was still a hand shuffle.

 

[Calnev1]

13 hours ago, south-carolinagirl said:

Just off Sunshine last week, fun 21 still dealt from shoe with $10 min bet 

Awesome.  The $10 minimum bet means that the Sunshine has probably gone through a recent casino renovation.  Thanks!

[south-carolinagirl]

Not much changed, just too large new chairs making it impossible to have a full table, making it very hard to find a seat.  Had to wait every time to play.  

Edited May 25, 2023 by south-carolinagirl
Typo

[smarterman64]

fun 21 typically can't be dealt from a machine because it uses a "spanish" deck, missing one of the 10s... so i find that odd... The machines are programmed to tell you if cards are missing, thus why they can only use them for full blackjack games. If you get to the casino early enough, you can watch them set up the game and see what cards they are using... Depending on the line/casino, they show all the cards for each deck, check each of them, then shuffle, then place them into the machine. That's the reason fun 21 is still a shoe game vs using a shuffler. 

[knagl]

In December of 2022 on the Carnival Spirit, Fun 21 was dealt from a shoe and had a $6 minimum.

 

Also as a reference point since it was brought up in the thread, roulette was double zero, with a $5 minimum on one of the tables.

[Calnev1]

On 5/25/2023 at 5:48 PM, smarterman64 said:

fun 21 typically can't be dealt from a machine because it uses a "spanish" deck, missing one of the 10s... so i find that odd... The machines are programmed to tell you if cards are missing, thus why they can only use them for full blackjack games. If you get to the casino early enough, you can watch them set up the game and see what cards they are using... Depending on the line/casino, they show all the cards for each deck, check each of them, then shuffle, then place them into the machine. That's the reason fun 21 is still a shoe game vs using a shuffler. 

Just got off the Panorama yesterday (Saturday).  Up until Thursday of our seven day cruise both fun 21 tables were being dealt from a machine.   I think it was called a "shufflestar" (not sure about that), but it definitely looked different than the other blackjack machines in use.  One of these fun 21 machines would occasionally slow down and pause its card delivery before resuming the deal.   Then on Thursday morning the other fun 21 machine stopped taking cards at the input point.  Several staff folks came over to mess with the machine, opening it up, probing, and even blowing on it.  They couldn't get it restarted.  I said "bring us back the shoe!"   And they did!  Well, only for the day.  By Thursday night, they had that dang machine back on the table.  I stopped playing fun21 at that point.  So anyways, they do have a machine that they think will work for the 48 card deck used in fun 21.  

[Calnev1]

14 hours ago, knagl said:

In December of 2022 on the Carnival Spirit, Fun 21 was dealt from a shoe and had a $6 minimum.

 

Thanks for the input about the Spirit.

[FSHLOT]

I am just wondering if they only use the machines when there is a certain amount of people, maybe over 3or4 players?  I'm thinking if theres only 1or2 they will deal by hand? I kind of remember them doing this on certain tables. Fun21 may be different though.

[Calnev1]

13 minutes ago, FSHLOT said:

I am just wondering if they only use the machines when there is a certain amount of people, maybe over 3or4 players?  I'm thinking if theres only 1or2 they will deal by hand? I kind of remember them doing this on certain tables. Fun21 may be different though.

No, the fun 21 machines on the Panorama were in constant use regardless of whether there was only one player or multiple players (up to the table max of seven).  Well, at least until that one fun 21 machine broke. And  It took a bit of effort to set up the shoe when they took the broken machine out, because they had to disengage the machine from the table and then change the discard tray (which is screwed into the table).  Fyi, the machine only needs a small discard tray because the cards are reinserted into the machine after each hand, while the shoe needs a large tray because there are multiple decks of discards between each dealer reshuffle.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Calnev1

[hhalliv]

Just found this thread in doing some research for my upcoming Venezia cruise.

 

Have any of the recent Venezia cruisers got any input on this?  From some of the videos of the casino online it looks like there are no shoes, and everything id dealt from the machine.