Scenic Romantic Rhine & Moselle--itinerary info with times

[DougK]

Scenic, like most river cruise lines, does not provide any information about times or durations of its port stops. Instead, they only list a port for a given day (along with excursions available there). In reality, that port stop can run anywhere from virtually no time at all (stopping just long enough to discharge passengers) all the way up to 24 hours or more in a port. Perhaps this doesn't matter to passengers who don't care about spending time in a port other than on included tours, but it is more than a bit frustrating for those of us who like to plan independent sightseeing.

 

Fortunately, there's a website--unclear to me whether it's associated with Scenic or not, but it appears to only exist for Scenic ships--that has historical tracking information that allows one to see where every Scenic ship has been, reported on an hourly basis, going back to 2014. With this information, somebody with enough time to waste can figure out what the actual times were in past years, and that often applies to future years as well, since the itineraries tend not to change much. Since I'm going on the Romantic Rhine & Moselle cruise next year, I went to this effort--both directions, because when I started the project I hadn't yet decided which direction I was going to go. Since I now have the information, I figured I should share my results with the board, in case somebody else is interested. So here goes. Please note that a couple of stops are speculative, since Scenic recently changed the itinerary for next year, dropping Maastricht as a port, adding Utrecht instead, and reordering a few stops around that. (One other gripe about Scenic's lack of transparency: that itinerary change happened after they announced the 2024 schedule with their "early access" brochure, but they didn't bother to notify me as a booked passenger, just silently updated the itinerary in the current brochure and online, where luckily I happened to notice it...) Nonetheless, I think the information below is still largely reliable, and I'm using that for my own planning. Times are not exact, but typically vary by only an hour or two. And, of course, there are also exceptions to the schedule listed due to particular circumstances (such as low water). Overall, however, there's a high degree of consistency between trips.

 

Basel->Amsterdam

Day 1, Basel      Typically leaves Basel around 8pm; in about 20% of cases, the ship actually starts in Breisach (and presumably passengers are bused there from the airport, skipping Basel altogether).

Day 2, Breisach     Arrive early morning (usually before 5am) and leave late evening (around 10pm)

Day 3, Kehl/Strausbourg     Arrive early morning (around 5am) and leave early afternoon (around 2pm). Due to a change where the Enrich concert is no longer taking place at Rastatt, it's quite possible that next year the ships will spend more time in port and not leave until late afternoon or early evening, but that's just my conjecture.

Day 4, Mannheim    Arrive early morning (usually before 4am) and leave early afternoon (around 1:30pm).

Day 4-5, Rüdesheim     Arrive on the evening of day 4 (typically around 7pm), and leave the next day in early afternoon (around 1:30pm)

Day 5, Rhine Gorge   Start within 1/2 hour of leaving Rüdesheim, so around 2pm, and reach Lahnstein around 5pm, where there is an unlisted stop for about 5 hours (until 10pm or so)

Day 6, Cochem     Arrive around 7am and leave around 9:30pm

Day 7, Bernkastel    Arrive around 7am and stay over 24 hours, not leaving until the next day around 9am

Day 8, Moselle Cruise    This is an all day affair, from the time Bernkastel is left until past sunset, arriving in Koblenz somewhere around midnight.

Day 9, Koblenz    As mentioned, typical arrival is around midnight of day 8, and almost 24 hours is spent in port, not leaving until around 11pm.

Day 10, Düsseldorf     Arrive around 7am and stay all day and evening, not leaving until 11pm or later

Day 11, Arnhem     Arrive around 7:30am and stay until mid-afternoon (3:30pm or so). Departure is a little speculative, since the next port in 2024 is going to be Antwerp, instead of Maastricht, but I think the timing will still be about right.

Day 12, Antwerp     Arrival is speculative, but I'm guessing will be by 8am. Departure will be around 7pm.

Day 13, Veere     Arrive around 7am. Previously departure has been early afternoon (around 2pm), but I'm speculating that it may be later in 2024, perhaps around 6pm, since the ship now only needs to reach Utrecht overnight, not Amsterdam.

Day 14, Utrecht     I'm speculating this will be a full day stop, arriving in the morning and staying through the evening.

Day 15, Amsterdam    Arrive around 6am, perhaps earlier since only coming from Utrecht.

 

Amsterdam->Basel

Day 1, Amsterdam    In previous years, the ship has left around 8 or 9pm, but it's possible it will be later in 2024, since the ship now only needs to reach Utrecht overnight.

Day 2, Utrecht     I'm speculating this will be a full day stop, arriving in the morning and staying through the evening.

Day 3, Veere     In the past, the ship hasn't arrived until about noon, but I'm speculating that it will be by 7am since the ship is coming from Utrecht. It should still leave around 6:30pm.

Day 4, Antwerp     Arrive early morning (around 4am), and probably still leave around 7pm, although that may change since the next port is Arnhem, not Maastricht.

Day 5, Arnhem     My best guess is that arrival will still be around 9am. Departure is late evening (around 10:30pm).

Day 6, Düsseldorf     Arrive around 11am, and leave around 7:30pm.

Day 7, Moselle Cruise     Start on the Moselle around 10:30am at Koblenz, and end at Cochem around 5pm.

Day 7-8, Cochem     As mentioned, arrival in Cochem is actually around 5pm on day 7; departure is around noon on day 8.

Day 8-9, Bernkastel     Arrive around 9:30pm on day 8, and leave around 3:30pm on day 9. This might change since the Enrich concert is now listed as being on day 9--but I'm speculating that it will actually take place on day 8, with a stop early evening to disgorge passengers to bus to Trier, returning to meet the ship in Bernkastel.

Day 10-11, Koblenz     Arrive around 6am on day 10, and stay over 24 hours, leaving around 7am on day 11.

Day 11, Rhine Gorge     As mentioned, starts around 7am at Koblenz, and ends around 1pm.

Day 11, Rüdesheim     Arrive around 1:30pm, and leave around 10pm.

Day 12, Mannheim     In the past, this has pretty much been a "drive-by," arriving around 7:00am, and leaving by 9:00am. But since the Enrich concert has been switched to Trier (rather than Rastatt later on day 12), there should be time to make this a full port stop, not leaving until early afternoon.

Day 13, Kehl/Strasbourg     Arrive early morning (4am) and leave late evening (11pm)

Day 14, Breisach     Arrive morning around 8am, and leave late afternoon around 4pm.

Day 15, Basel     Arrive very early morning (before 1am)

 

I hope this proves of interest to other Scenic passengers.

[Canal archive]

For a start Doug K what is the website you mention! Also you do realise that all docking regardless of where or when is in the control of the local authorities. Scenic have always changed their itineraries from year to year this is why we have been able to repeat cruises and consequently had a different experience although being on the same stretch of river. I’m also just a tad surprised that you would choose an all inclusive river cruise company if you wanted to do your ‘own thing’. With acquaintances we have managed to go exploring ourselves on our Scenic cruises with would you believe it the assistance of our cruise director and managed to fit in the odd picnic courtesy of the restaurant crew. Mooring up at a set time is not a given on European rivers, especially if river levels are a challenge.

[pontac]

Scenic (and others) would love to be specific with timing, but it's just not possible. There can be delays because of congestion at locks, maybe only one arch of a bridge is navigable so only one boat at a time can go through, low or high water can play havoc with cruises, and when the boat gets to a destination, as @Canal archive says, unless the cruise line owns its own mooring then where to moor is not decided by the captain, but by the harbour master.

 

On my Rhine Mosel cruise in April this year  a promised optional  evening Wine & Music excursion at Winningen for 20:30 - 22:00 could not be reached until after 22:00 because the boat was delayed so long at a lock.

 

All this makes a pre-planned excursion with a third-party problematic, but if you're flexible and prepared to  get a taxi on the day when you arrive then OK, just make certain you know when time to be back on board because they won't wait for you.

 

There are a great number of river cruise line competing for your money. If  you don't intend going on the included excursions then (like @Canal archive) I wonder why you intend paying Scenic for excursions, because Scenic include a choice of excursions in their price that others don't  and charge extra for as optional.

 

My report on my Basel (Rhine) - Trier (Mosel) trip might be of interest, there's a link in my signature below

[DougK]

Since I can't figure out how to quote previous posts in sections, I'll just generally respond.

 

1) The website is http://www.anyoverip.de/scenic/  There's no information that I can discover that says who sponsors it. I also have no memory of how I first ran across the site; it was at least five years ago. All I know is that I've found it very useful. Right now, when it comes up there's a notice of a problem with Google Maps, but if you just hit OK it seems to work. This has happened a couple of times over the years, but has been corrected after a few weeks--I don't know whether the same will happen again, or whether it's a sign the site is dying. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

 

2) I have no objection to Scenic changing their itineraries from year to year. In fact, like you, I think it's a good thing, and facilitates repeat passengers not just seeing the same thing again and again. I do think, however, that if they choose to change an itinerary after a passenger is already booked on the cruise, they should notify that passenger! Maybe it was just a slip-up in this case, but I fear it's more likely a general practice, in line with Scenic's woeful administration. They provide an excellent product on board, but I'm far from the only one with issues with their off-board administration.

 

3) I recognize that there are many factors that can change the times: lock congestion, water levels, local authorities, etc. Nonetheless, the reality is that there's a high degree of consistency between cruises. And Scenic (like all cruise companies) clearly has this information itself for internal purposes, including contracting with local transportation, guides, etc. I would also note that there is similar variability in ocean cruising due to weather, local conditions, etc.--I have been on many ocean cruises where the schedule is adjusted en route, including cancelling or switching ports. Nonetheless, ocean cruise companies regularly publish expected times, and I don't understand why river cruise companies can't do the same--with the clarification that it is subject to change based on conditions. At a minimum, I would think they could make a distinction in their itineraries between "drive-by" ports and those where the ship is docked for over 24 hours--but for some reason, they apparently don't think that's of interest to people. Even for the majority of people who go on included tours, I think it would be nice to know whether or not there is going to be significant time in port beyond the tour, to explore other sights, shop, sample cuisine, etc. Take Antwerp as an example. There is a fabulous sculpture park there (the Middelheim Museum) that is not included on any of the tours. Knowing that the ship is going to be in port all day allows somebody to visit the park after going on a tour, rather than having to decide to skip a tour in order to see the park. On the other hand, with a drive-by port, there's no point in researching local attractions, since there will be no feasible option to get to them.

 

4) It's not an all-or-none situation with going on included tours (although I personally fall close to the none line on the spectrum). People may choose to go on a number of included tours, but then go off on their own some days for sites of particular interest to themselves. And in order to do that, it's necessary to have some idea of whether it's logistically possible. For example, let's suppose somebody wants to visit Burg Eltz, a lovely castle about 20 miles away from Cochem. If a passenger is going on this cruise from Basel to Amsterdam, that quite feasible--even after an included morning tour--, since the ship doesn't leave until late evening. But if the passenger is instead on the cruise from Amsterdam to Basel, it would be quite difficult, since the ship leaves around noon. Or, for another example, the Kroller-Muller Museum is about 20 miles away from Arnhem, and has the second-largest collection of Van Goghs in the world. When I first looked at this cruise back in 2019, I discovered that it would be impossible to visit because Arnhem was pretty much a drive-by stop. Now, with changes in itineraries in the ensuing years, it becomes much more feasible, especially if going from Amsterdam to Basel. Yet Scenic's description of the stop is essentially the same today as it was in 2019, other than the addition of a new optional tour.

 

5)  Please don't take anything I'm saying as a slam of Scenic in particular; as far as I know, most river cruise companies are the same in this regard, though I vaguely recall somebody posting earlier this year that they were able to obtain a time schedule from their company. I choose to go on Scenic because I love their product. I recognize that it may not strictly make financial sense, as opposed to going with another line that doesn't include tours. But even if it's not financially smart, I much prefer the all-inclusive model, where I don't have to buy individual parts of the cruise separately--just (over)pay at the beginning, and it's done with. I know I'm not alone in this; just look at the recent thread on tipping tour guides on Uniworld--people aren't objecting to the financial cost of doing so, but instead to the hassle. I also enjoy the food quality on Scenic, and fear it may be worse on a less-luxury line. And, as a very personal point, I'm lucky enough to be booked in a Royal Panorama suite--I believe Scenic is alone in having these cabins with both side and rear windows, or at least they were when I last researched it. Is it worth paying the premium price for this? There's no objective answer to that. But, at least for now, I'm happy with my choice.

[Canal archive]

DougK got it, anyoverip has been around since at least 2011 it then was mentioned in the small print I haven’t checked recently. It’s useful but occasionally a little behind. If I remember correctly it was very usefully interesting when Scenic Gem was sailed to the Seine and Scenic Sapphire to the Rhône, I’m pretty sure it’s German but owned by Scenic. I tend to just use it automatically so forget to mention it.

I know this won’t help if your a very far forward planner but it could help your wondering organisations if you contact the CD some time before your departure and build a rapport  it may be useful.

[notamermaid]

@DougK Thank you for your work. It is very interesting to see so may details, sailing times between ports become clearer for example. Comparing the differences between the sailing directions is also helpful. Those basic differences are less likely to change than other details when sailing on a specific date.

 

notamermaid

 

[pontac]

11 hours ago, DougK said:

Since I can't figure out how to quote previous posts in sections,

 

Highlight the wanted passage and click on quote,viz

 

 

Then type your response

then do again for the next quote

 

11 hours ago, DougK said:

There's no information that I can discover that says who sponsors it.

 

OTLO VR Systeme GmbH

Schweriner Straße 56
18069 Rostock
GERMANY

 

It's most unlikely to be a company owned by Scenic as it also tracks other cruise companies, see for example www.overip.de/tui.

 

Enjoy your cruise; please do report back here how it was and how your individual sightseeing worked out

 

 

 

 

 

[DougK]

7 hours ago, pontac said:

Then type your response

then do again for the next quote

 

Thanks so much! I only knew about the Quote button at the bottom of the post.

 

7 hours ago, pontac said:

It's most unlikely to be a company owned by Scenic as it also tracks other cruise companies, see for example www.overip.de/tui.

 

Interesting. I had tried just replacing "scenic" with "viking," "uniworld," "avalon," etc. and came up empty-handed. As I poke around more, it appears that OTLO is the service provider, and a few companies contract with it. The only names I recognize are Scenic, TUI, and ARosa. Plus KD, which does local cruise excursions. But the only ones I can find the actual cruisemaps for are Scenic and TUI; plugging in "arosa," "kd," etc. doesn't work for me, and an Internet search also comes up empty (or more accurately, keeps pointing me back to the Scenic cruisemap).

 

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, DougK said:

As I poke around more, it appears that OTLO is the service provider, and a few companies contract with it.

It comes up as an electronics company installing and supporting hardware and software. VR stands for virtual reality in the name and GmbH is a legal company set up (i.e. business laws) standard in Germany. They appear to specialize in providing services for the cruise industry, from telephones to data collection: http://otlo.de/index.php?systems&lang=de#section-cis

 

notamermaid

 

 

[Canal archive]

Thank you Notamermaid when I first became aware of it I tried a bit of tech searching and it’s obviously not my forte but if you’re travelling with Scenic it’s an interesting tool. They did remove the second Scenic boat that was sold to an independent company, almost straight away.

[pontac]

14 hours ago, DougK said:

Interesting. I had tried just replacing "scenic" with "viking," "uniworld," "avalon," etc. and came up empty-handed

 

Yes, I tried Viking which led me to the OPTUS site.

 

TUI are a big European company offering all sorts of holidays and now they have added  river cruising. 

[Canal archive]

TUI used to be Thompson’s.

[pontac]

28 minutes ago, Canal archive said:

TUI used to be Thompson’s.

 

Its more complicated than just a name change: simply put

 

TUI  is a German company.

 

Its UK arm merged with UK travel company First Choice

 

That swallowed/merged with Thomson Travel (no 'p', no 's' at end)

 

Then the UK TUI Travel merged with the German TUI AG parent company which operates river cruise ships.

 

Outcome: a massive German headquartered travel company that owns the Thomson & First Choice brands

[Canal archive]

Sorry got the spelling incorrect I didn’t go into further detail as at the time according to a banking friend of ours when the deal was happening the convolutions around the deal, sale and eventual acquisition were quite interesting!

[notamermaid]

9 hours ago, pontac said:

TUI are a big European company offering all sorts of holidays and now they have added  river cruising. 

Oddly, TUI had done river cruises before. The German company so to speak had a branch called TUI Flussgenuss. It started in 2011 and ended in 2014. It was only aimed at the German-speaking market. The TUI river cruises now are only on the British market but may be advertised in other English-speaking countries by now.

 

notamermaid

 

[reeves35]

8 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Oddly, TUI had done river cruises before. The German company so to speak had a branch called TUI Flussgenuss. It started in 2011 and ended in 2014. It was only aimed at the German-speaking market. The TUI river cruises now are only on the British market but may be advertised in other English-speaking countries by now.

 

notamermaid

 

TUI continues to only market its river cruises in the UK.  It is the same with its ocean cruise division (Marella).  Both are sold as fly-cruise packages from UK.

[pontac]

14 hours ago, notamermaid said:

Oddly, TUI had done river cruises before.

 

Yes, mentioned in my post above.

[notamermaid]

53 minutes ago, pontac said:

 

Yes, mentioned in my post above.

Yes and no. I meant it as an introduction to the fact that the German river cruises existed before the UK river cruises with a gap of a few years when neither the German operation nor the British operation existed - as regards river cruising.

 

notamermiad