Hi from the Pacific Princess

[Hlitner]

We actually enjoyed Beijing very much, but would have liked to have had more time to explore. We stayed at the Beijing Hotel which was the perfect location. There is a lot of shopping in the neigborhood, and its safe and easy to take evening walks. Even if you are in a hotel in a less desirable location, you can always use taxis or the excellent subway to get around the city. The tour to the Great Wall was close to perfect (and I normally hate tours). It took about 1:20 to drive out to the wall...and this was done on a comfortable air conditioned bus. Our guide briefed us on the history of the wall during the drive..and once we arrived we were on our own for about 2 hours. Most of our group were content to stay at the lower wall section, since they were either too old or not in the necessary shape to climb. You could climb in either of two directions, and Kathy and I walked more than half a mile up to one of the highest points. Keep in mind that this is the major tourist attraction for the Chinese..so its pretty crowded on the wall. Its also quite commercial..and we had to laugh when we reached on of the highest points and discovered a real camel on the wall (for pictures). When we came back to the meeting area..we spent time browsing some of the street stalls (yes, there is shopping at the wall) and than ended our tour by having a refreshing beer in the restaurant by our meeting point. The 2 hours we had at the wall was just about the perfect amount of time. After our morning at the wall, we drove about 45 minutes to a restaurant for lunch. We than toured a government owned cloisonne factory..and this was actually very interesting and educational regarding the complex process for making cloisonne. There was a large shop (there are always large shops on tours) that had a huge selction of cloisonne ranging from cheap nik-naks to huge pieces costing over $10,000. On another day (we spend 3 in Beijing) we walked through Tianamin Square and toured the sprawling Forbidden City. We also took another tour to the Summer Palace..which is really a beautiful place (unfortunately, we had a T storm which disrupted our tour). My only warning is that you will do a lot of walking on these tours. My wife and I are in pretty good shape and had no problem,, but quite a few of the older folks were totally exhausted from the tours. I know this sounds like a lecture, but I strongly recommend that anyone taking this trip (or almost any long trip) spend a lot of pre-cruise time taking long walks to get into good walking condition. Comfortable shoes are a "must" and remember that it will be pretty hot...so take or buy a hat. They always had bottled water on our buses,,but you can also buy cold bottled water, beer, or soda almost anyplace in China. Princess contracts with CITS (Chinese International Tourist Service) for their tours..and this is the largest and the best tour company (they are owned by the government). Our main guide stayed with us throughout our 8 day tour..and we were joined by additional local guides when we left the Beijing region. All the guides spoke excellent English, were very knowledgable (all college grads), friendly, and very open to one-on-one discussions about any topic. As a general rule we do not like organized tours (and usually avoid any tour) but this tour was really a great experience and very well done. I would also recommend that you take some small umbrellas (my wife was able to get two into her purse) in case of rain..or to protect yourselves from the sun if you get a hot day. We look forward to returning to China on a future trip.

 

Hank

[stingraynz]

Many thanks

 

As I said before I have enjoyed your posts on the Europe board and like the kind of info you give (I don't see it as a lecture) . Thanks for answering so fast.

 

Like you, we also try not to use ship tours but I'm not totally against them. Sometimes they can be a crap shoot for quality, but I find that mostly with the half day tours. The full day+ tours I have been on are usually very well done. I have not taken a cruisetour and this one offered everything we were looking to go see plus the hotel and transfers etc. I was worried about the time at the great wall. Also like you and Kathy, we too want to walk up and see some of it (I have a few months to train). The more excertion the better. You have given us a lot of confidence now knowing you enjoyed it so much and in the same ways we would.

 

Thanks again.

[Hlitner]

The problem I have with most tours is that you waste too much time doing things that might not be desirable. It is not uncommon for tours to take you to "special shopping places" which almost always kick-back a percentage to the tour company (and cruise line) and usually have higher prices. And of course we have all been on tours where you are stuck waiting (an every stop) for the one person who never returns on-time. In Europe, the last thing I want is to eat lunch with any large group. Sitting at a well-placed outdoor cafe is a passion (as it is for many Europeans) and these are not generally places visited by tours. Independent travel is not for everyone...but for those with a "spirit of adventure" and willing to do their pre-trip homework, it will usually be far superior to most tours and at a far lower cost. I also think that many private guides can offer a significant improvement over the large, overpriced, tours offered by cruise lines. Keep in mind that cruise lines buy their tours through local land-based companies who build in a good profit. On top of this,. the cruise lines build in their own substantial profit. A simple bus from Livorno to Florence will cost about $300 for a family of 4 (this does not include any tours). This same family could travel on the train for less than $80 and actually get to Florence before some of the tour buses. Personally, we prefer to rent a car (usually less than $100 per day) and do our own thing. That family of 4 could also hire a taxi for the day for less than the $300 cruise line transfers and have the advantage of going where they want, when they want, with whom they want! Ok... I am prejudice! On the other hand... I get to sit in a beautiful cafe in Positano while the tours simply stop at the top of the town for a quick look-see. Now I will get off my "soapbox" and say that China is the exception and you really need to take the tours. We hope you love Asia as much as us.

 

Hank

[slgjhg]

Thanks Hilther and Helenb

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi All,

 

I actually had read your thread from the Pacific Princess and was therefore primed when the tour people in India asked about the two ports. Thanks for the head's up. Your reports from your cruise were so interesting, and I appreciate so much you comments back to me. My husband and I have been to so many of your ports on business, it is so different and such a different perspective, and it was fun viewing them from your perspective. Also, we did two Renisannance (sp) cruices when these ships,R3 etc., were considered big. So interesting to see your warnings to Princess Grand cruisers. Most of the people we cruised with then couldn't imagine cruising on a ship as large as 600 passengers. Interesting! I feel lucky to have enjoyed both sides of this cruising experience and actually enjoyed them both, they do indeed have different things to recommend them. The really small ships which have been reinvented as Oceania, were all Suites. They we marvelous. Walk-in closets are the best. We will be on the Royal (as I mentioned in the "Help" message about pending ports) which we have sailed twice before.l I think she may be on her last legs, however, that doesn't matter, the itinerary is so spectacular that we couldn't resist. We have also met some cruisers on these boards who are on the same sailing that seem, knowledgable, fun and interesting.

 

I thought your pointers about expectation were really valuable. Also, libraries can be great, and I am so glad that you reminded people of that.

 

I haven't checked your itinerary but did you visit Tiangin? It was the original port for Beigin, a very ancient city and very European in historyl The missionary from the "Chariots of Fire Movie" was barried there. We spent one week, twice a year there and during my morning walks I came to really enjoy the sights. The ritual of morning exercise, in many forms. Women on bicycles with their arms and hands covered by cloth for sun protection. The flexibility of women I would encounter on my morning walks. (Stretching on fences etc.) Were you there ( on a tour or even on your own) you wouldn't have seen these things, but did you stop there?

 

Thank you so much for your wonderful detailed information and responses,

 

Shannon Gardner

[sandydownunder]

I have enjoyed reading your posts about your cruise.You said one of your ports was Pusan but you didn't give any details. We are doing the Sapphire Princess Osaka to Seattle next year and Pusan is one of our ports. Could you outline what you did there? Like you, we like to do independent tours if possible.

 

You mentioned I think filling out a form for Nagasaki. What was that about? We are also stopping there.

 

Many thanks,

Sandra

[Hlitner]

Ahhh, Pusan. I did not give any report because our cruise used this port more like a "whistle stop" than a true port-of-call. We docked in Pusan at about 7 am on a Sunday.. and departed at 12:30. There were a few tours...but they did not look very interesting and were not heavily booked. We walked off the ship and took the provided shuttle ($4) to the center of town (about 5 minutes from the port). There was a large market area with many small shops which did start opening about 9:30. Nearby was a large street fish market which was interesting just for the chance to see all the unusual seafood items enjoyed by the Koreans. As to the shops... there was little bargaining and the prices were not good considering that our cruise also gave us time in Bangkok and Beijing. By the way...Beijing would now top our personal list as the best bargain shopping city on earth (our previous first choice was Bangkok). Bottom line for Pusan was that we were not particularly impressed...but had little time to do real exploration.

 

Hank

[sandydownunder]

I had a feeling that that might be the answer for Pusan. We are there on a Tuesday from 8am until 5pm. May have to see if any of the ship's tours sound interesting.

Sandra

[babsjoy]

Am going on Sapphire Princess Beijing to Bangkok Oct. 26 and hoping to book some private tours in Singapore, Shanghai, etc. If you know of any tour guides please email me at babsjoy@adelphia.net Thanks. Babs

[Mapu]

Carol,

We were on the Victoria Prince which is a 4587 ton boat that can handle 206 passengers and had a crew of about 110. The standard cabins all had balconies and were 211 square feet. The cabins even had TV which usually received CNN. The dining room accomodated everyone in a single seating.. with breakfast and lunch being buffets and dinner served Chinese style (table-wide platters on a center turntable). There was one large lounge that was used for their home-grown shows, accupuncture demonstrations..etc. This lounge also housed the ships only bar and had a table with 4 internet terminals (very very slow). We were pleased with the cabin and the service, but a little disapponted in the food. They put on a crew variety show that was actually better than any show we had on the Pacific Princess. This Victoria line is supposed to be the best line on the river (Viking River Cruises would argue that their boat is nicer) and we saw nothing to make us think otherwise. The Victoria Queen and Victoria Star have similar deckplans. The Victoria Katarina is a little larger with a similar layout. The Victoria Rose and Victoria Empress should be avoided because of their smaller cabins (and no balconies on the Rose). My wife and I thought that 3 days was just about right for this cruise. Going through the 3 Gorges was stunning... but one could argue that once you have seen one Gorge you have seen them all! As to the Dam,.. it is an amazing project. We saw many other boats (many of them tied-up unused) and none of them looked as nice as the Victoria boats.

 

Hank

Hi Hank,

My husband and I will be doing the 8 day tour after sailing on the Sapphire from Osaka to Beijing October 14. Was your group of 22 the only Princess tour or were there other Princess groups? I am trying to get a sense as to whether or not the groups have a size limit. Were there other non-Princess passengers on your river cruise? Were there stops along the way with an opportunity to see towns or villages off the river? Thanks for all the info so far. gail

[whenistrivia]

Hi, Mapu..

 

Piping in here from the 10-26 Sapphire cruise boards.. I don't know what the maximum size of the group is, but the fact that some of those Princess tours sold out so quick is probably due to the fact that it reached it's maximum number of people for that itinerary. The 9-day pre-cruise tour #5 on our sailing was sold out within months of it's initial availability. There were other options available.. shorter itineraries that still included the Yangtze river cruise, but I'm sure that Princess knows ahead of time the number of individuals that they can book given cabin availability on the particular Victoria ship, etc..

 

Gary

[Spikesgirl]

When we did the Xian/Yangtze land tour in August, we had a group of 11 and Jackie, our guide from CITA, said it was the smallest one he'd ever had - the largest was 97...could you imagine getting everyone through the Forbidden City with that number? When you get on board, ask the Purser and (s)he can tell you how many will be there.

 

As Hank so wonderfullly explained, this was a great tour and CITA really went out of their way to provide for us. You will have a wonderful time.

 

Charlie

 

P.S. Hi, Stingraynz - your advice was spot on - thanks for helping to make the trip great

[whenistrivia]

Hi, Charlie..

 

We're doing the cruisetour as a pre-cruise, as we sail from Beijing to Bangkok.

 

I guess we'll find out when we get to the airport for pickup just how large our group is. Somehow I can't imagine a group of 97.. when we did a similar pre-cruise for 7-days in Australia a couple of years ago I think our group size was around 20-25.. a nice size, I thought.

 

Gary

[Mapu]

Hi, Mapu..

 

Piping in here from the 10-26 Sapphire cruise boards.. I don't know what the maximum size of the group is, but the fact that some of those Princess tours sold out so quick is probably due to the fact that it reached it's maximum number of people for that itinerary. The 9-day pre-cruise tour #5 on our sailing was sold out within months of it's initial availability. There were other options available.. shorter itineraries that still included the Yangtze river cruise, but I'm sure that Princess knows ahead of time the number of individuals that they can book given cabin availability on the particular Victoria ship, etc..

 

Gary

Hi Gary,

From watching the Princess website it seems that they will fill a group (whatever size that is) and then put it on waitlist. When they have enough to complete another group (be it limited to the size of the vehicle or other variable) more will be added. I am convinced the way to get accurate answers is from people experiencing it. Gail

[Spikesgirl]

Hi, Gary!

 

We were surprised as well with the size of the group and we, in fact, had a manager as our guide because CITA was trying to figure out why this tour package wasn't selling. have to say that it was great to have a group this small as we were able to navigate sights easily and even changed our itinary when we decided to go to the Ming Tombs instead of the Summer Palace.

 

One way that we found fellow travelers was the night before, we were given our tags (Gold 6) and we actually roamed the halls, looking for the same colored tag. Didn't find any, then ran into two groups at breakfast. It was really the luck of the draw.

 

Have an incredible tour. Are you doing the Yangtze? If so, it will be interesting to hear how its changed since they released the next flood.

 

Travel safe,

 

Charlie

[whenistrivia]

Hi, Gail..

 

I think you're right-on with the explanation of tours.. we've noticed on the shore excursion pages that Princess will usually show "20 available" for a particular tour, then when it gets down to 0, they start another group of 20. I guess it all depends on the tour operator that Princess works with and the capacity limitations they're give to work with.. It was surprising how quick they pulled the pre-cruise tour #5 (9-day) from their brochures, and this was in their 2005 mailings.

 

Charlie..

 

The Yangtze is 3 days of the 9-day cruisetour.. really looking forward to that part of the trip. I told Rita that it will seem like 2 vacations in one.. going on the 9-day tour first, then boarding the Sapphire in Beijing for the 16-days down to Bangkok. Haven't been on a trip that long before.. our cat will surely be mad at us when we return !

 

We plan on posting during the trip, as internet access and time permits.. Thanks for all of your participation, comments and well-wishes !

 

Gary

[Mapu]

Hi Charlie,

We are doing the same tour as you (Beijing, Xian & Yangtze River Cruise) after our October 14 cruise on the Sapphire. When you have time could you post info on some of the stops on the river? One of the older reviews that I read about the Yangtze part of the trip was that it was 300 steps from the boat to the bus. Is this still true or has the recent floodings of the river changed this aspect of the trip? gail

[Spikesgirl]

Gary -

 

have to warn you, get all the rest you can on the Princess. We were up at 6:30 a.m. every day of the land tour. I think one morning, they let us sleep in until 7. We hit the ground running and didn't stop until late at night. Now, lots of this involved riding on the bus, which isn't that strenuous, but it was still exhausting. On the cruise, all the excursions are in the morning - early in the morning. Breakfast is at 7 a.m. for an hour and that's it. Bit of a drag there, but you then had the entire afternoon to do whatever you wanted. When we got home, our cat was like velcro - we must have been gone just long enough for him to really appreciate us. he's now back to his aloof self. time for another cruise!

 

Mapu (Gail) -

 

Send me an e-mail at ckirby@deltacollege.edu and I'll be happy to send you a blow-by-blow. I have posted a review, but it's not up yet. You are talking about Feng Du and there is some discussion about this from our friends who insisted that they went to Fengu Du, but saw an entirely different site. I think they may have gone to new Feng Du across the river. Anyhow, Feng Du or the Temple of Hell can be reached by going up 300 stairs or you can ride the chair lift to the top. There are steps in the castle, but they are nothing. I am still recovering from back surgery and managed just fine. We really loved this stop (it was the first one from Chongquin). The river levels are now on the rise up to 165 meters as of September 1st, so it will be interesting to hear how things have changed after your trip.

 

Charlie

[andydee]

Thanks for a great review Hank; informative as always. I will give a strong second to the great bargains at the Beijing markets. The last two years, we shopped at the Pearl Market and the Silk Market. We had a lot of fun bargaining at both places. We simply had the hotel desk write down in Chinese the name and address of both; took a hotel card with the same info and grabbed a cab both ways. It was simple, quick and very inexpensive. For those with limited time in Beijing and can only go to one of these places, the Silk Market has a lot more variety unless jewellry is the main interest. You can also take cabs to the main tourist areas if you make sure to have directions written down in Chinese for both directions. For those with extra time in Beijing who wish to experience the Great Wall, I highly recommend the longer trip to Mutianyu rather than the wall at Badaling or the one nearby. While closer, these two are very crowded and hectic and don't provide nearly as good amenities for people who are less mobile. The scenery to Mutianyu is also much better.

Cheers,

Andy