Raising Our Fare (four threads combined into one)

[lb0103]

I won't worry, thanks for the vote of confidence, we have never heard of it happening, but just thought I would ask.

[Karen112999]

This whole situation is really scary. I was reading another thread a few days ago. The posters were commenting on the savings they were getting when they called their TA's and were promised crazy credits - like $3200.00 for a booking. Seemed like mostly from people that booked suites. Being I am going on the Noordam 1/17, I contacted my TA and the savings was only $50.00 per person. I wonder if there was a glitch. I will have to find that other thread and see what people are saying.

 

Hope this works out for all involved. Indeed that price change would make a real difference in how much I could do while on the ship. Stay with it as long as you can... Good luck

 

Karen

[turia]

Where I booked the prices at the time for were $400-$600 less then what they are listing now and when I phoned Hal I was told there was a glitch in their computers.

[Karen112999]

Bankerbabe... see you already found the thread I was referencing and warned everyone not to spend their savings too quickly. It sure does look to me like HAL had a pricing glitch, no matter what they said to anyone on the phone. However, the TA should have atleast booked it with HAL at the lower price.

 

Whatever the reason - you should not be the one paying for their mistake whether it be Hal, the Ta or both.

 

Karen

[turia]

I just phoned Hal again at first the girl didn't Know what I was talking about but checked with someone else who confirmed it, she says they are not honoring any of them but keep trying with your TA good luck to all of you.

[Karen112999]

I guess that is an indication of how many fares were involved. Just a few and they would have taken the loss, but if you see the other thread - people were getting unbelievable prices....

 

You would think that they would have full tests of the software updates before publishing any rate change....If it was not HAL employees programming, then they would have recourse against the outside programmers.

 

Hope they rethink this issue, definately bad PR.

 

Karen

[turia]

I guess that is an indication of how many fares were involved. Just a few and they would have taken the loss, but if you see the other thread - people were getting unbelievable prices....

 

You would think that they would have full tests of the software updates before publishing any rate change....If it was not HAL employees programming, then they would have recourse against the outside programmers.

 

Hope they rethink this issue, definately bad PR.

 

Karen

 

Where is this other thread?

[bankerbabe]

Here is the link to the other thread: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=410963

 

I just want to thank all of you again for your posts - the men with the extra-long-sleeved jackets would have come for me by now if not for you all.

[AAAAmerican]

Being tenacious as my terriers are, will be of great benefit for youall.

 

Stand your ground and walk tall and forward.:cool:

 

Some American business's think they are above the F T C rules and regulations.. they do forget this is A Republic.

 

The Federal Republic of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA, is our actual name. I have a wall map in my office 1840 Census 1843 publication which says The Federal Republic of the UNITED STATES of North AMERICA.

 

Most firms do not think people will bother with low sums of money.. but they do sometimes forget it is the peoples money, NOT THERES!

 

The adage still goes a penny saved is a penny earned. They are your pennies!

[upstatecruiser]

We also booked a cruise on HAL and had a great price. Called on a question and was told the price had gone down, we upgraded and took the new lower price. We put our deposit down and have confirmation # and what is due. Now they are saying that is not my price, I don't think so. I deposited my money on that lower price and this was done right through HAL so stop blaming all the TA's they are only giving the price they got right from HAL offices. I think we need to notify everyone and anyone about this. I checked with an attorney and I was told I have the equivalent of a contract. HAL should honor their commitments and they are losing credibility with me and the several families that were traveling with us. This was going to be such a wonderful vacation and now it just seems to be a nightmare.:confused:

[AAAAmerican]

Contract and contract law are worth the paper written on...

 

Most firms have attorneys on retainers and/or part of the firm salaried...

 

Most people are not able to go in length/duration and/or have the financial resources ...

 

Thats what a lot of firms count on.

 

With a paper trail at least you have a leg to stand on... :cool:

[noblepa]

... that, of all the people we have on this board, none seem to be lawyers.

 

Almost everyone in this thread, myself included, has posted opinions as to what the law is, but afaik, none of the posters were lawyers.

 

Contract law in the US is covered by the Uniform Commercial Code, a model law that has been adopted ver batim by 49 states and with only very slight modifications by one state (LA, I think).

 

Whether or not HAL *should* raise the fare in this case, I believe that they have every legal right to do so, for two reasons.

 

First, the UCC specifically gives retail sellers (and HAL qualifies) the right to correct an incorrect advertised price.

 

Second, HAL's cruise contract *specifically* reserves the right to raise the fare at any time, before or after deposit or full payment, up to and including the day of embarkation. By making a deposit, the customer implicitly agrees to that contract. So, even if you don't consider a quote for a specific cruise to a specific customer to be "advertised", the contract has got you.

 

The contract also gives the customer specific rights in the case of a fare increase. They can back out with no penalty.

 

And I don't think you could pursue a defense that you were not given the contract until after you agreed to it. I'm sure if you asked the HAL rep, they would send you a copy of the contract to review. Of course, you wouldn't have a reservation until you did agree.

 

But, I could be wrong...

 

Paul Noble

[wrp96]

noblepa, there is one problem with your analysis. You are assuming that a cruise is considered a "good" which is what it would have to be to fall under the UCC. It could be argued that a cruise is a "service" and therefore would not fall under the UCC.

[hammybee]

You may want to hop on over to the thread I started about the whole guarantee thing. The terms and conditions of sale gives HAL and probably all cruise lines the ability to change their prices at any time. Once you have paid in full they can still increase the price but as a passenger, you can opt out of the sailing, and obtain a full refund.

 

It is quite possible that this part of the contract was created to protect HAL and all cruise lines, in the event of a error in pricing. As I said, I spoke with 6 different reps on 6 different calls and none claimed knowlege of a "computer glitch".

 

In business, stuff is often blamed on a "computer glitch". The reality is that ole Betty Sue, sitting over there in the corner, may have made serious data entry errors or pulled up a wrong screen. Or maybe she was a digruntled employee. We'll never know. Whatever it was, we can assume that it was not HAL's intent to fool the public.

 

If HAL or any cruise line fails to honor the original price, I think we can assume that the financial impact was serious enough for them to invoke the terms of their contract.

 

If you deposited $1,000 into your checking account and through an error, you were credited with $10,000 or $100,000 or $1,000,000, your bank is going to come back at you, even though it was their mistake. Any time a deal looks too good to be true, it usually is.

[hammybee]

I have no idea to what extent the OPs travel agent may or may not have made an already bad situation worse. The HAL Terms and Conditions make it clear that the TA is the passenger's agent. If you paid a TA for a cruise but the TA did not pay HAL, your problem is with the TA, not HAL. Conversely, if a TA is used and HAL issues a refund, it will do so to your agent. And it's up to you to obtain it from your agent.

[serendipity1499]

I'm sorry to say this but, as I stated before, I really don't believe you can do anything about it.:( .Also believe the Attorney which the poster consulted may have not been given HAL's Published Policies...First of all, you do not have a contract with HAL until Final Payment is made...Up to final payment date you are entitled to a full refund..

 

All companies have disclaimers about honoring fares which are inaccurate & have been published incorrectly...These disclaimers have been in effect for many years.. Airlines, Hotels, Car rental Companies, etc. as well as Cruise Lines have them...They have also been tested in Courts of Law & have been upheld...

 

In Hal's Published Policies (see their brochures) under the Heading:

Fares, Non-Discountable Amounts, Taxes and Surcharges it reads:

 

(Quote) Holland America Line reserves the right not to honor any published prices that it determines were erroneous due to printing , electronic or clerical error. (Unquote) etc etc...This section goes on to give the policy on "Non-Discountable Amounts" Taxes & surcharges..

 

It's very unfortunate and doesn't seem fair for those who are caught in this fray, but I believe the only recourse you have is to get back your non-refundable portion of the airline tickets..

 

For all those who are fueling the fire by advising legal action, perhaps you ought to sit back & look this over very carefully...One of the reasons prices & insurance is so high, is because so many are quick to sue over the slightest injustice..Would it be worth a few hundred dollars to go to court..I think not!..An Attorney would charge much more than that & our cruise fares would increase..

 

Yes, I too would be very disappointed if it happened to me & probably very angry, but I also know there would be nothing I could do about it..Please don't obsess & get yourselves sick over it..It's not worth it...I hope that you will be able to get that wonderful cruise soon!

 

Betty

[serendipity1499]

Paul Noble & Hammybee...Sorry you were both posting at the same time that I was composing (I'm slow)...

 

I agree with you both! It's a shame for those who thought they had a good deal, but understandable why HAL cannot honor the wrong price..

 

Cheers...Betty

[hammybee]

Paul Noble & Hammybee...Sorry you were both posting at the same time that I was composing (I'm slow)...

 

I agree with you both! It's a shame for those who thought they had a good deal, but understandable why HAL cannot honor the wrong price..

 

Cheers...Betty

 

We are all coming from the same place on this and human error is not unique to HAL. The terms and conditions of booking are similar with all cruise lines. It sounds as though all of this has come about in the last week. We can all appreciate the dissapointment of not getting the deal you thought you had.

[Karen112999]

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=410963

 

Take a look at the range of these errors with just the people who posted above. It appears to be the fares for many ships on many dates. It was not just isolated. It also appears that the most drastic reductions were in their higher priced suite categories.

 

If you look at this from a business standpoint - HAL is in a horrible LOSE-LOSE situation. At this point, they have lost potential HAL cruisers. With the competitive cruise industry, they can not afford to give a share of what would become theirs away. On the other hand, if you see the reductions shown - you can only imagine the total cost of this "glitch".

 

Working in the world of insurance..where rates are constantly changing, we have options of going to company websites direct to rate a policy and they will honor those rates....but if we use an outside 3rd party rating software system = the companies give this 3rd party rating program the rates, they input them and provide them to agents for a subscription price- then the companies will NOT honor the rates if this 3rd party made the error. I would assume as you browse the online sites, that different TA's use different programs. You can go to 2 different online TA's and see they have the exact same program. Then another 2 TA's may have a different program... Looks like there is a chance of these 3rd parties companies may have made the error.

 

I had called mine after reading the posts the other day - and I could have saved $50.00 per person with an upgrade (or so they call it), but the locations of the available cabins even with the upgrade - to me was not really an upgrade - from a VF to a VD - so I opted against it.

 

Has anyone who had this problem booked directly with HAL????

 

Good luck all....

 

Karen

[hammybee]

[quote name=

Has anyone who had this problem booked directly with HAL????

 

Good luck all....

 

Karen[/quote]

 

Karen you are a good detective. Like you, I am wondering if the common thread to all of this is a common TA or perhaps a block of cabins offered by HAL or a TA wholesaler. The consumer has no way of knowing how many degrees of separation between the TA they used and HAL.

[AZjohn]

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=410963

 

Take a look at the range of these errors with just the people who posted above.

 

Thanks Karen, forgot about that thread and now reading it again, it all makes sense. I feel so sorry for those that were effected:(

John

[turia]

You may want to hop on over to the thread I started about the whole guarantee thing. The terms and conditions of sale gives HAL and probably all cruise lines the ability to change their prices at any time. Once you have paid in full they can still increase the price but as a passenger, you can opt out of the sailing, and obtain a full refund.

 

It is quite possible that this part of the contract was created to protect HAL and all cruise lines, in the event of a error in pricing. As I said, I spoke with 6 different reps on 6 different calls and none claimed knowledge of a "computer glitch".

 

In business, stuff is often blamed on a "computer glitch". The reality is that ole Betty Sue, sitting over there in the corner, may have made serious data entry errors or pulled up a wrong screen. Or maybe she was a disgruntled employee. We'll never know. Whatever it was, we can assume that it was not Hal's intent to fool the public.

 

If HAL or any cruise line fails to honor the original price, I think we can assume that the financial impact was serious enough for them to invoke the terms of their contract.

 

If you deposited $1,000 into your checking account and through an error, you were credited with $10,000 or $100,000 or $1,000,000, your bank is going to come back at you, even though it was their mistake. Any time a deal looks too good to be true, it usually is.

 

I'd go with the disgruntled employee as it wasn't just on one sailing date it was on 10 different sailing dates Jan - April the ones before and the ones after were more expensive. I just thought they were trying to find themselves some new customers or were not as busy then.

[AAAAmerican]

In the new Mariner periodical , ( what a rack on the front of...) oops i better get off that now..., it does show prices but what caught my eye and fingers here... it has lower pricing ..I was on with 2 reps yesterday in SLOWWwww Seattle and they do have less hours than the Bankers used to have..

 

They quoted me much highre rates and and I asked directly when the fares will be going down etc... and they said they wouldnt... ((Loquacious Palaver)))

 

Banks here are open SEVEN ( 7 Days) a week and long hours too ..convience it is ...as competition does very nice things for consumers... such as lowering prices and giving better quality goods/services...

 

The OnLine Mariner has nicer prices as well.. but why just a few hours earlier they said naught? Does one dept know what the other is doing?

 

Someone has to take res-ponsibility for the actions done ...:eek:

[bankerbabe]

This whole situation is frustrating. At this point we are still struggling with the travel agency (who claims there is nothing that they can or will do). I wonder how many cruisers there are on the ships that do not yet know that there is an issue with their reservations.

 

I believe that many of you are right in that legally there is not much that can be done. That doesn't mean that I won't continue to fight for what is right. Is it worth attorneys fees, etc.? Probably not. Would I love to go for the jugular? You bet. But I likely won't. Thanks to this mess I no longer have a good feeling about the travel agency that I used and I am unlikely to sail with Holland America again. I will likely never use either one of them again.

 

As is typical in these situations, everyone is blaming everyone else. There is plenty of blame to go around, I'm sure. At this point it is obvious that no one is going to budge and give us the rate that we were quoted. Is this right? It depends on whose side of the fence you are sitting on.

 

Does it mess up our vacation plans? Yes. But what choice do we have but to play their game? Sure, we could cancel and get a full refund of our deposit. But then what? We would have to buy another cruise at the new, higher rates. Rates above what we were given for our Christmas present from my father in law, which we can't afford (we are a youngish family with two kids and a mortgage). We would have to change our air arrangements, which would cost us even more money above and beyond the new cruise booking. $100 per ticket change fee, new price (we booked our air on a special promotion, the cost of the same tickets has gone up over $110 since Monday). We are in a lose-lose situation. Either way the cruise line will come out a winner. They will get the higher fare regardless of whether we book it or someone else does.

 

So it is likely that we will end up scrimping and saving (hope the kids like Top Ramen) for the next 7 months so that we can go on the same cruise. Like I said, what choice do we really have? Our airfare is already purchased for three days prior to sailing, not much that I can do about that either. Now I just have to find a way to fund my hotel stay in New York, now that we will be spending that money on the cruise itself. Does anyone know the best place to camp in Central Park? (Kidding - there is no way this small town Oregon girl is going to camp in Central Park. The thought of taking a subway scares the dickens out of me, much less Central Park at night!!)

 

The travel agent is winning, the cruise line is winning, I'm going to take my beaten-down self to bed.

 

Go Ducks

[AAAAmerican]

This whole situation is frustrating. At this point we are still struggling with the travel agency (who claims there is nothing that they can or will do). I wonder how many cruisers there are on the ships that do not yet know that there is an issue with their reservations.

 

I believe that many of you are right in that legally there is not much that can be done. That doesn't mean that I won't continue to fight for what is right. Is it worth attorneys fees, etc.? Probably not. Would I love to go for the jugular? You bet. But I likely won't. Thanks to this mess I no longer have a good feeling about the travel agency that I used and I am unlikely to sail with Holland America again. I will likely never use either one of them again.

 

As is typical in these situations, everyone is blaming everyone else. There is plenty of blame to go around, I'm sure. At this point it is obvious that no one is going to budge and give us the rate that we were quoted. Is this right? It depends on whose side of the fence you are sitting on.

 

Does it mess up our vacation plans? Yes. But what choice do we have but to play their game? Sure, we could cancel and get a full refund of our deposit. But then what? We would have to buy another cruise at the new, higher rates. Rates above what we were given for our Christmas present from my father in law, which we can't afford (we are a youngish family with two kids and a mortgage). We would have to change our air arrangements, which would cost us even more money above and beyond the new cruise booking. $100 per ticket change fee, new price (we booked our air on a special promotion, the cost of the same tickets has gone up over $110 since Monday). We are in a lose-lose situation. Either way the cruise line will come out a winner. They will get the higher fare regardless of whether we book it or someone else does.

 

So it is likely that we will end up scrimping and saving (hope the kids like Top Ramen) for the next 7 months so that we can go on the same cruise. Like I said, what choice do we really have? Our airfare is already purchased for three days prior to sailing, not much that I can do about that either. Now I just have to find a way to fund my hotel stay in New York, now that we will be spending that money on the cruise itself. Does anyone know the best place to camp in Central Park? (Kidding - there is no way this small town Oregon girl is going to camp in Central Park. The thought of taking a subway scares the dickens out of me, much less Central Park at night!!)

 

The travel agent is winning, the cruise line is winning, I'm going to take my beaten-down self to bed.

 

Go Ducks

 

 

Well it now be time Maam for you to have an affair... Contact your Consumer Affairs or whatever you call it in OR I have heard your State as well has good Consumer Policies and protections in place.

 

 

That may have to be one avenue you have to go down now.

 

I have been quoted erroneous numbers before and when I went to pay for thwm it was not there.. yes prices do change.. but i usually have a Plan B and C sometimes D if needed..

 

Your travel Agent ..or is it the Agency is well not as reputable as you thought.. have you ever looked at a lot of those so called Guarantees? *YIKES* you get paid the differnces if they find in your favor when you return.. are they kidding.. another lesson read the FINE print and legalease.. or have someone that does then..

 

We usually do a Price Base and Cost Basis Comparison for our cruises...

H A L we have found is one of the best especially in a mid price range...

 

 

I do feel for you in the misinformation thats going back and forth.. With more and more people on the water now in ships the courts and Consumer Affairs Dept's are going to be seeing a lot more foot traffic in there offices soon ..

 

 

You should speak asap with the owner or person in charge of the Agency there.. are they at least ASTA members?

 

Oh why stay in NYC ? Stay in NJ Phenominal Hotels are like 60-65 % less and minutes from NYC Mid Town

 

Subways in NYC are ok like in London and Washington DC Metro too. NJ now has the Light Rail System in place more across from Manhatten ..

 

MASS Transit needs to be funded and done.

 

Ships leave from Bayonne.. no not Bayonne France...oolalla what a wonderful little port.. the NJ one is Phenominal and used to be the Main US Naval Base to Supply Overseas.. (MOTBY) Millitary Ocean Terminal Bayonne.

 

MidTown Piers in NYV in the Borough of Manhatten are great in ease for us to come and go.. We are half way from there and WestPoint USMA.

 

So many things here for you and your children to see and do... and to think the Dutch settled NYC and Holland American started the Passenger Cruise Business from Rotterdam and NYC...

 

So going as guests on the ships is delighful and well..try it and dont blame H A L .. The Errors and Ommissions Insurance is for just that from your T/A ....

 

Your State requires it ?