Saga Rose Greenland Voyager August 2007

[Druke I]

Very subjective of course, but I prefer the Conte.

 

The upper decks, particularly the "boat deck" looks less cluttered. The area forward of the superstructure also is "cleaner" without the masts/booms.

[Saga Ruby]

About the Russians invading Georgia and South Ossetia - do you think Mother Russia will continue to expand her authority over other "weaker" countries which managed to secede from her Union some years ago? You have cruised to exotic locales all your life, you have a background in law enforcement, and I would be interested to hear your impromptu thoughts.

 

Putin, ex-chief of the KGB, has shown that he will not hesitate to eliminate with extreme prejudice any local opposition to his power and control. Journalists have been murdered, an assasination with polonium in London, now the invasion with Soviet, excuse me, Russian tanks into the country of Georgia.

 

I will be in Sevastopol, Ukraine next June, I hope. Give or take active on-the-ground fighting, I want to visit there for that one day. My concern is that cruise lines which cater to easily-concerned Americans will cancel the port.

 

What do you think? And what do our other readers think?

 

Ruby

[Druke I]

The fact that Putin and Russia seem to be taking a hard stance on the Ossetia/Georgia question does not surprise me at all.

 

Putin has long been stereotyped in our press as a hard-liner, with an interest in expanding Russia's sphere of influence.

 

I just hope we (the USA) does not get involved in what some consider to be a localized regional squabble.

 

Unfortunately, I think Dubya truly believes that USA should be involved in every dispute, if not physically at least vocally, and that we are in fact the only super-power that matters.

 

If the cruise lines cancelled every port because of regional squabbles, there would be very few foreign ports of call.

 

And how about answering Kapricorn's question? I don't really want to get too involved in politics - someone always get their "toes stepped on".

[Kapricorn]

What do you think? And what do our other readers think?

 

Volatile political situations anywhere are of great concern to us. I am sure, though, that this will not affect cruise schedules to Sevastopol.

 

I've understood that the rule in polite society is not to discuss three things: religion, politics and money. As Druke said, someone here might be apt to get their "toes stepped on."

 

Donald.

[Saga Ruby]

Cruise Critic members talk about money all the livelong day - cabin and suite costs, liquor prices, coloured passcards affording special privileges, discounts on bookings, tariffs gained and lost.

 

I like the Rex stern for geometric reasons.

 

Ruby

[Kapricorn]

Ruby, what I should've been much more explicit was personal money matters, such as one's salary, monthly pensions or the amounts in our bank accounts. We certainly can - and do - talk about money in the areas which you mentioned.

 

Rex was the flagship of Italian Line, being about 3,000 tons heavier than Conte di Savoia.

 

Donald.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Thanks for posting that site with the pictures of Kristina Regina. All that wood paneling is fantastic! Too bad some designer redecorated some of the public rooms with furniture and carpeting which are not true to the period and ambiance of the ship.

Yes, it would be nice to see a refurbishment that is sympathetic to her original style. But all things considered, she is far less altered than the overwhelming majority of other ships her age (or even newer). It looks to me like she is still a ship in which one could easily imagine oneself being in an earlier era.

 

Here are some older photos of her interiors, from the time she was called BOREA. Most of the time she had that name (1977-1987) she was out of service but I guess these photos probably date from the late 1970s or early 1980s. Her appearance today is still very similar to that in those photos but some of the furniture is definitely different. Of course I don't even know if the furniture in those photos is original - I suspect some is and some isn't. It would be interesting to see photos of her interiors when brand new but sadly there is not an enormous amount out there about her since she is a small, lesser-known ship.

 

Here are side-by-side photographs of the great Italian liners Conte di Savoia (left) and Rex (right). I'm curious what are your opinions as to which of these ships has the best profile?

I've always preferred CONTE DI SAVOIA, inside and out. Her profile is sleeker and more modern. The interiors of the two were vastly different... CONTE DI SAVOIA was sleek and modern inside whereas REX was very ornate and old-fashioned.

 

REX is by far the more famous ship - she won the Blue Riband, whereas CONTE DI SAVOIA didn't.

[Conte Di Savoia]

Here are side-by-side photographs of the great Italian liners Conte di Savoia (left) and Rex (right). I'm curious what are your opinions as to which of these ships has the best profile?

 

Dimensions: Conte di Savoia 860x96ft, Rex 880x97ft

 

 

 

Donald.

 

Donald, thanks for posting these pictures. Of course this is a bit like waving red in front of a bull!

While Rex is arguably more famous by virtue of being the only Italian ship to hold the Blue Ribbon, IMO Conte di Savoia was by far the more trend setting ship. Rex was a ship whose design was rooted in the past, an esthetic which was more at home in the 1920's and earlier while Gustavo Pulitzer Finali's design for Conte di Savoia drew upon Art Deco and looked forward to Modernism. She anticipated the design of the post war fleet. While Finali was involved in every aspect of her design, the officials of the line managed to have one public room in the Rococo style so favored by Italians in the early 20th century. The First Class ballroom was an elaborate setting overwrought production that surely would have been redecorated if the ship had survived the war.

By the way Donald, one of your favorite ships, Incres Line's Victoria was also a creation of Gustavo Pulitzer Finali who oversaw virtually every aspect of her design, from the shape of the superstructure to the design of the chairs and sconces on the walls. Finali was quite an interesting character. He was one of the three most important interior designers of Italian ships of the late 20th century, the other two being Gio Ponti and Nino Zoncada. He was of Italian Jewish background from Trieste. During WW II he took refuge in the US, designing homes and apartments in New York and LA. After the war he returned to Italy and resumed is career. His swan song for the Italian Line was the decorating of the Monte Carlo (First Class) Restaurant on board Michelangelo.

I'm including another picture of Conte di Savoia and one of Cristoforo Colombo which hopefully show the influence of the former on the design of the latter which entered service 22 years later.

My apologies if this was too boring!

[Kapricorn]

Conte, boring? Not at all! Thank you very much for your post. I hadn't considered the influence of the design of Conte di Savoia on Cristoforo Colombo and Andrea Doria. The two pictures which you posted side by side certainly showed similarities in their designs.

 

Conte di Savoia's First Class over-elaborate ballroom certainly would have been laughable to those who crossed the Atlantic on the modernistic Ile-de-France and Normandie.

 

I am sure, though, that during the 1930s, those sailing on Rex had a cachet over those sailing on Conte di Savoia, due to Rex being the flagship of Italian Line and also a Blue Ribbon holder.

 

Conte, is the red flag safely down?

 

Donald.

[Conte Di Savoia]

Donald

By "red flag" I only meant that you got me excited not angry!

[Druke I]

I think the Cristoforo Colombo was a particularly good looking ship.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

I think the Cristoforo Colombo was a particularly good looking ship.

 

AMEN DRUKE!!! And she was well loved by those who sailed on her. Overall...I think the LEONARDO DAVINCI was hard to beat...outside and inside.

 

Ross

[dougnewmanatsea]

All the mid-century Italians were drop-dead gorgeous IMO. And while we usually only think about the big liners, in the 1950s and 1960s the whole Finmare passenger fleet was rebuilt wholesale, and I defy anyone to find an ugly ship among it. And of course similar ships were built for private and even foreign companies too, like Costa, Home Lines and SAL (GRIPSHOLM, a splendid Italian-Swedish collaboration).

[Kapricorn]

A photograph taken in New York City aboard Conte di Savoia was published in newspapers in March 1933, showing actress Norma Shearer and her director husband Irving Thalberg with their three-year-old son Irving Jr. This was the first published photograph of the child. How different from nowadays, when tabloids spend millions of dollars to publish exclusive pictures of movie stars' babies.

 

Donald.

[Kapricorn]

And of course similar ships were built for private and even foreign companies too, like Costa, Home Lines and SAL.

 

I particularly remember when Home Lines Oceanic made her debut in 1965. She had a revolutionary design (for her time) and was very beautiful. I believe that she was the first ship to be designed for cruising as well as transatlantic crossings.

 

Donald.

[Conte Di Savoia]

Donald, you are absolutely correct about Oceanic. Her placement of a central pool with Magrodome and a single funnel toward the stern has been emulated by most cruise ships since her debut. She even had a few suites with balconies although that's not what she has been known for. Her long survival is testimony to how advanced she was. I got to cruise on her once before she left Home Line. At that point, however, Home Line was on the decline although the ship was still beautiful and well maintained. I remember sitting out on the deck in the warm sun and having the deck steward come along periodically and spritz me with water. I've never had that happen on any other ship!

[Druke I]

No doubt about it, Home Lines' Oceanic was a trendsetter - and a good looking ship to boot.

 

I also think P&O's Canberra was a good looking ship. The pictures of her scrapping were very sad.

[Kapricorn]

I remember sitting out on the deck in the warm sun and having the deck steward come along periodically and spritz me with water. I've never had that happen on any other ship!

 

The water spritzing happened to me only once, on NCL's Norwegian Sky in 2000 during a Caribbean cruise. It certainly was pleasant.

 

Donald.

[Kapricorn]

I also think P&O's Canberra was a good looking ship.

 

Right, Canberra was a truly beautiful ship. Her running mate, Oriana, while eye-catching, was too unconventional-looking to be called beautiful, and her lines has not been duplicated by other ship designers.

 

Ruby, among the news on the Cruise Critic homepage is that it is not anticipated that the South Ossetia conflict will have any impact on cruise schedules to the Ukraine (including Sevastopol). I've seen pictures of Sevastopol, and it is a beautiful port.

 

Donald.

[Druke I]

I agree that Oriana (1st) was not as good looking as Canberra, but I don't think unconventional is necessarily a bad thing. I sailed on the old Oriana twice, and enjoyed both trips.

 

First time, she was still with corn-yellow hull (Orient Lines had just merged with P&O), and we were in a 1st class Court cabin.

 

Second time, with white hull and flying the P&O flag, down on F Deck, in a convertible cabin in the Tourist section.

[Conte Di Savoia]

The first Oriana certainly was unique/quirky. I could never decide whether she was coming or going. Her namesake was clearly inspired by Canberra and IMO is one of the finest looking ships on the ocean. I had the priviledge of doing a transatlantic on board her in 2000 from Southampton to NYC. The P&O old guard on board were not entirely happy with her. One day we had particularly rough north Atlantic seas and I overheard one British dowager complaining, "We never had weather like this on board Canberra!"

[Druke I]

I agree that Oriana (2nd) is a good looking ship. I hope to sail on her one day. Her funnel is certainly reminiscent of Canberra.

 

I have read a rumor (don't remember where) that she may be transferred to P&O (Aus) in the not too distant future.

[Kapricorn]

The first Oriana certainly was unique/quirky. Her namesake was clearly inspired by Canberra and IMO is one of the finest looking ships on the ocean.

 

I agree that the new Oriana resembles Canberra to a great degree.

 

Has anyone seen the new pictures of Solstice over on the Celebrity board? There is no promenade deck for passengers. Her lifeboats sit smack along the sides of that deck. This clearly is an attempt to imprison passengers inside the ship's interiors where they will spend, spend and spend. Me book on her? Hah!

 

Donald.

[CGTNORMANDIE]

GOOD MORNING ALL!!!

 

Did anyone happen to see "SS UNITED STATES, LADY IN WAITING". This is a superb documentary that is making the rounds on PBS. Congratulations to Mark Perry, who co-produced the film. It is a wonderful compilation of the history of the "BIG U". Mark Perry is the web master of our Ocean Liner Collectibles group and has done remarkable things on the internet with his film collection on You Tube. You will recognize him as Shipgeek.

 

Ross

[Kapricorn]

I didn't know about this PBS documentary, but I'll keep an eye for it on the television schedule. Wouldn't this be the same documentary about SS United States which aired a few years ago?

 

Donald.