Best bonus you've got booking with a TA

[Ivanova]

This is called THEFT OF SERVICES and I think it's about time that the industry does something about it. That's why alot of travel agents are starting to charge a "Plan to Go" fee, which is usually applied toward the payment of the cruise. If you don't book, then it's nonrefundable for services rendered.

 

Maybe if we start sending those "shoppers" a bill for our service, that practice of picking our brain would stop. And if the bill is not paid, then it's time to prosecute.

 

Nan, I have to disagree with you to a point. It's not up to the industry to address tire-kickers or "theft of services." As travel agents there is nothing stopping us from charging plan-to-go or research fees (some TAs do this and apply the fee towards the booking if the client ends up booking with them). And those that do charge these fees don't send a bill ... it would never be paid (and think of the time you'd waste in small claims court chasing down unpaid bills). These fees are charged upfront before any time is invested into research.

[cs]

I am letting the cruiselines know about this thread. They are aware that rebating is still going on, but it is very much frowned upon. They do not want their product to turn into a commodity like the airlines, where it is price driven only.

I'm sure they already know about it. All they have to do is a goggle search for the term "Royal Caribbean Bonus". And if they know about it, that means one of two things. Either RCI looks the other way on these things or these agencies are doing it legally.

[jalakim]

No flames, but a question.

 

Did you have anything from her in writing regarding the discounts, OBC, etc? Did you pursue this with the BBB? Or if she works with a large agency like AAA, did you talk to a supervisor/manager?

 

 

I do have everything in writing from her. Even her plea for more time ( which I gave her) and an email from her with what she owes me with a timeline ( Never kept). She works as an independant but is under the umbrella of a larger agency. The matter is in their hands now. I have gone to the BBB. They can only write letters. I did call them before I booked with her and it was ok. The worse thing was I had booked a holiday cruise with her first when she offered to take over the booking for the one I had booked, but the corporate office is now handling that

[mencik]

I was re-reading some of the posts and don't understand why the agents think we want them to pay out of their pockets. I don't believe you should be paying, you are an hourly employee. Your company, who's obviously making money off of you, should be the one to offer incentives.

 

Of course, many agents are independents. They have no salary whatsoever other than commission. Those who are hourly probably don't get a commission split and aren't authorized by their company that is making the money you claim to give you any benefits. Clearly you do not understand the makeup of the industry.

[honeydog714]

I think that it is a darn shame that people expect things from their TA's other than good service, I never EXPECT anything but have always been delightfully surprised by something from mine. She has gone so way over and above for our family saving us lots of $$ time and headaches, I just wanted to say to the person who said that they got gifts from their clients, thank you for the idea, I send my TA some flowers today. I have had her jumping through hoops over the past few months, booking and canceling cruises as we changed our minds, she never got upset or annoyed, frankly until reading all of this I had no idea how lucky I really am to have her. So for all of those good hard working professionals out there, thank you for putting up with families like mine and always doing your best to make sure we are happy:D

[stacynan]

Nan, I have to disagree with you to a point. It's not up to the industry to address tire-kickers or "theft of services." As travel agents there is nothing stopping us from charging plan-to-go or research fees (some TAs do this and apply the fee towards the booking if the client ends up booking with them). And those that do charge these fees don't send a bill ... it would never be paid (and think of the time you'd waste in small claims court chasing down unpaid bills). These fees are charged upfront before any time is invested into research.

 

That's true. But most the time, when consumers hear you have an upfront fee, they're not interested in working with you because they THINK they can get all they need (information and booking capabilities) on the internet. It is not standard practice, across the board.

 

And cs states: " Either RCI looks the other way on these things or these agencies are doing it legally."

 

The cruiselines have a hard time policing what agencies do with their commissions. I don't know if the Marketing/Sales department at cruiselines have a Researcher that looks for these type of agencies who have questionable practices. They should! They should also have someone from the marketing department reading all the cruise forums. What a great way to interact with your customers and learn their likes, dislikes, and issues that arise. But I do know that rebating/discounting has been a hot topic at Cruiseline Trade Shows for the trade (not consumer).

[polodad]

I was the poster who stated I use a TA that awards 9% of ticketed price back as OBC. We live in a society that allows capitalism last time I looked. We're paying $4200 for that cruise. the agency is earning 15% or $630. If their business model says they want to pay $400 of that back to me then I certainly have no legal, ethical or moral qualms in taking them up on it. The OBC is an important economic component of the overall cruise cost for us. We get to vote with our feet by selecting which agent will get our business. If you don't like it move to Cuba and book a Communist cruise. Hey, I haven't seen many of those so maybe that business model doesn't work. Who won the Cold War anyway?

[Ivanova]

I was the poster who stated I use a TA that awards 9% of ticketed price back as OBC. We live in a society that allows capitalism last time I looked. We're paying $4200 for that cruise. the agency is earning 15% or $630. If their business model says they want to pay $400 of that back to me then I certainly have no legal, ethical or moral qualms in taking them up on it. The OBC is an important economic component of the overall cruise cost for us. We get to vote with our feet by selecting which agent will get our business. If you don't like it move to Cuba and book a Communist cruise. Hey, I haven't seen many of those so maybe that business model doesn't work. Who won the Cold War anyway?

 

So as a capitalistic company, the cruise lines shouldn't be allowed to control how their products are sold?

[stacynan]

We're paying $4200 for that cruise. the agency is earning 15% or $630. If their business model says they want to pay $400 of that back to me then I certainly have no legal, ethical or moral qualms in taking them up on it.

 

As stated earlier in this thread, the commission is not for the TOTAL cruise price. You have to knock off the port charges, taxes, and non-commissionable cruise fare portion (this can run around $160 per person on a 7 day cruise). So the agency is not making $630 off your cruise. They are making less. Probably a couple of hundred dollars less, depending on how many people are traveling.

[jjstexas]

We are relatively new travelers and have not yet used a travel agent. Although I know that there are many wonderful travel agents and experiences with those agents, the tone of some agent posters on this thread in particular does not encourage me to begin now.

 

It does not appear that using a travel agent would, for my husband and I, be worth either a lot of OBC/other perks or on the other hand, the attitude. If all the "advocating" on this thread is meant to encourage people to book with their local agents, I fear it has had the opposite effect on us. This has only cemented our decision to continue to book with RCL directly.

 

I am sure it is a difficult business, particularly for the "little man," but in this day and age that seems to be true for almost all lines of work (including our family's) - sad sometimes, but just a fact not worthy of lamenting over a dozen posts in a single workday.

 

I'm not trying to offend, and flame away if you'd like, but that's what turned me (and perhaps others) off on this thread to begin with.

[CruiseKeeper]

Well you are in the minority! And I mean a SMALL minority. Most people think nothing of it.......calling travel agents (and I mean real travel professionals, not those working for large online agencies in call centers) and picking their brains. They'll have us work for days, changing dates, wanting us to check different options, and asking a million questions (and yes even experienced cruisers do this). And then take all that information and price shop and book elsewhere.

 

This is called THEFT OF SERVICES and I think it's about time that the industry does something about it. That's why alot of travel agents are starting to charge a "Plan to Go" fee, which is usually applied toward the payment of the cruise. If you don't book, then it's nonrefundable for services rendered.

 

Maybe if we start sending those "shoppers" a bill for our service, that practice of picking our brain would stop. And if the bill is not paid, then it's time to prosecute.

 

Theft of Services? Prosecuting? This kind of discussion deters folks from using TA's, don't you think? I'm sure it's frustrating not closing deals, but isn't that the nature of sales? I'm not flaming, just trying to understand.

[polodad]

As stated earlier in this thread, the commission is not for the TOTAL cruise price. You have to knock off the port charges, taxes, and non-commissionable cruise fare portion (this can run around $160 per person on a 7 day cruise). So the agency is not making $630 off your cruise.

 

The NET AMOUNT for the cruise after deducting port taxes, yada yada $4200. they award 9% of the COMMISONABLE amount. Clear???

[polodad]

So as a capitalistic company, the cruise lines shouldn't be allowed to control how their products are sold?

 

As long as their not in violation of "restraint of trade" laws I don't have a problem. If it's ok with the FTC I guess it's okay with me.

[jcanino]

I can get all the information I want/need from either the cruise line's website or this board.

 

There is your biggest mistake, thinking you can get all the information you want or need from people on this board who really have no clue as to the reality of the travel business. I sit here and laugh at some people's comments and responses to questions because they are so far out in left field. Do you really think that someone who takes one cruise a year knows more than a travel professional who has invested their own time and money to educate themselves about the business they are in? Take a look at some of the travel agent's signatures and note the initials after their names (ACC, MCC, CTA, CTC, DS). All of those cost us a lot of time and money so that we can be properly trained and educated. The CTC after my name, took three years of my spare time and around $4,000. Do you seek medical advise from someone who read a book about doctors once?

[Ivanova]

Theft of Services? Prosecuting? This kind of discussion deters folks from using TA's, don't you think? I'm sure it's frustrating not closing deals, but isn't that the nature of sales? I'm not flaming, just trying to understand.

 

L&J, you're correct. It is not "theft of services" if it's freely given over the phone or in person. Unless a TA explicitly says "I won't do any research or give any advice unless you book with me", there is nothing to stop a prospective client from asking questions. Yes a TA risks the client taking all of their work/research/advise and then going elsewhere to book, but it's not theft if you didn't state upfront that your research/advice comes at a price. And then only would it be "theft" if the fee wasn't paid .. which is why TAs that do charge fees, charge them upfront before divulging any info or doing any research.

 

It is definitely frustrating to put in hours of work/research and then have a prospective client take your work and book it online. That is a client being lazy and using your services without paying for it. We either have to live with it, or find a way to inhibit it (i.e. plan to go fees).

 

Typically new clients that call based on a referral aren't like to bail with the info ... folks who find me in the yellow pages though are a crap shoot; they can go either way.

[CruiseKeeper]

L&J, you're correct. It is not "theft of services" if it's freely given over the phone or in person. Unless a TA explicitly says "I won't do any research or give any advice unless you book with me", there is nothing to stop a prospective client from asking questions. Yes a TA risks the client taking all of their work/research/advise and then going elsewhere to book, but it's not theft if you didn't state upfront that your research/advice comes at a price. And then only would it be "theft" if the fee wasn't paid .. which is why TAs that do charge fees, charge them upfront before divulging any info or doing any research.

 

It is definitely frustrating to put in hours of work/research and then have a prospective client take your work and book it online. That is a client being lazy and using your services without paying for it. We either have to live with it, or find a way to inhibit it (i.e. plan to go fees).

 

Typically new clients that call based on a referral aren't like to bail with the info ... folks who find me in the yellow pages though are a crap shoot; they can go either way.

 

Thanks. I'm sure it's frustrating and I wouldn't like it either. Do you think that agencies that charge fees upfront do much business?

[polodad]

I'm not sure this is the best analogy but I'll try it.

 

If I'm doing a home improvement project and it's easy and not complicated I'll wander over to Home Depot & buy my materials for a little less. I'm not anticipating soliciting any substantial advice or assistance.

 

If the project is difficult and I need assistance I'll go to the full service hardware store and solicit advice from the competent staff. I'm perfectly happy to pay more for the same materials knowing I'm getting the advice (service & experience) that's necessary for the task.

 

Somewhat similar in booking a cruise. If I'm doing an around the world complicated itinerary I'd probably need and seek the assistance of a competent professional travel agent and would pay what I need to for that service. On the other hand if it's a 1 week easy cruise I'd go to my internet TA who is actually pretty good and the lowest net cost to me. That's my approach.

[Ivanova]

Do you think that agencies that charge fees upfront do much business?

I know some that do very well.

[Autumnrose]

I'm not sure this is the best analogy but I'll try it.

 

If I'm doing a home improvement project and it's easy and not complicated I'll wander over to Home Depot & buy my materials for a little less. I'm not anticipating soliciting any substantial advice or assistance.

 

If the project is difficult and I need assistance I'll go to the full service hardware store and solicit advice from the competent staff. I'm perfectly happy to pay more for the same materials knowing I'm getting the advice (service & experience) that's necessary for the task.

 

Somewhat similar in booking a cruise. If I'm doing an around the world complicated itinerary I'd probably need and seek the assistance of a competent professional travel agent and would pay what I need to for that service. On the other hand if it's a 1 week easy cruise I'd go to my internet TA who is actually pretty good and the lowest net cost to me. That's my approach.

 

Yes I competely agree with you! I keep saying that price shopping doesn't bother me. You should shop and find out what different TA's are offering. Competition is good. What bothers me is when someone sees what a TA is offering and then thinks that the ta should share their commission. If the TA offers that upfront that's their problem. But to ask for it and then judge a TA as being "bad" for not rebating is wrong.

[Autumnrose]

I recieved the shaft from my TA on our last cruise. She promised me 400.00 off of each cabin ( I had 5 booked, one a GS) and various OBC ( depending on the cabin cat) and champagne in every cabin. She charged the full cost to my credit card and then apologized with the promise of the refund.....Well, no refund, over 2000.00 no OBC and no champagne.

 

Let the flames begin!!!!!!!

 

Definately no flames here. I am just curious. Where did you find this "winner" of a TA and what about her made you want to book in the first place??

[cs]

There is your biggest mistake, thinking you can get all the information you want or need from people on this board who really have no clue as to the reality of the travel business. I sit here and laugh at some people's comments and responses to questions because they are so far out in left field. Do you really think that someone who takes one cruise a year knows more than a travel professional who has invested their own time and money to educate themselves about the business they are in? Take a look at some of the travel agent's signatures and note the initials after their names (ACC, MCC, CTA, CTC, DS). All of those cost us a lot of time and money so that we can be properly trained and educated. The CTC after my name, took three years of my spare time and around $4,000. Do you seek medical advise from someone who read a book about doctors once?

 

Don't forget, experience is just as important as education. If I come here and ask, "what was your experience with the food, entertainment, etc." - that's not something that you learn from a book. And I'm sure you actually use your own experiences when interacting with a client.

 

I can't really think of one thing that I've ever needed to know that I couldn't find on my own. Factual information - I look at the Cruise line website. Opinion information or basic info, I ask here.

 

I am sure there's sometimes that you deal with overly complicated issues that I'd be stuck trying to find solutions on my own. But I've never encountered those situations. And I do book through a TA, so at very least I would expect a minimal amount of service if I ever needed it.

 

I still don't see a problem with my way of doing things. I get a TA as a backup in case I ever need them. I do most of the stuff (research, etc.) myself because I enjoy doing it. And I get good perks.

[babs275]

CS - I don't think anyone is saying that you are not capable of handling your arrangements on your own - and it's within your comfort level - so go for it.

 

What I would like to point out is that most people "Don't know what they don't know" Meaning if they don't even know to ask a question about something - they may not realize they needed some info and/or weren't aware of other options they may have had. That's where the travel professionals are saying the value of working with a "good TA" is. Do you really think a Cruise Line A is going to tell you that for Alaska, Cruise line B is a better option?

 

There are some very cruise and tech savy people on the board - I've been around myself for years - but there are also a lot of new or less experienced cruisers who come on here and read these threads and find themselves afraid to make a mistake and therefore become overwhelmed with the booking process as they flit from website to website trying to find what you guys are talking about. They hear someone relate what a great deal they got (and who knows why that was - Caribbean during hurricane season, Europe during Aug?) - and think that it should be that way across the board. It just isn't - there are too many factors.

 

They also hear from many here "it's so easy, I do it on my own" and feel intimidated and therefore may not seek out some assistance that usually will not cost them a penny - but may give them a much better vacation than if they haden't asked.

 

Remember - some people on here like to rack up the number of cruises per year as a badge of honor. One "not so great" cruise isn't going to kill them. But there are many many more lurkers for which this may be the first big vacation they have taken in years and the memories will have to last them until they can do it again in another 3 or 5 years.

 

Most travel professionals go into the biz because they truly enjoy the thrill that comes with matching the right vacation experience with each client - and then taking the stress part of it out of it so they can actually enjoy it!

[booze brothers]

Well you are in the minority! And I mean a SMALL minority. Most people think nothing of it.......calling travel agents (and I mean real travel professionals, not those working for large online agencies in call centers) and picking their brains. They'll have us work for days, changing dates, wanting us to check different options, and asking a million questions (and yes even experienced cruisers do this). And then take all that information and price shop and book elsewhere.

 

This is called THEFT OF SERVICES and I think it's about time that the industry does something about it. That's why alot of travel agents are starting to charge a "Plan to Go" fee, which is usually applied toward the payment of the cruise. If you don't book, then it's nonrefundable for services rendered.

 

Maybe if we start sending those "shoppers" a bill for our service, that practice of picking our brain would stop. And if the bill is not paid, then it's time to prosecute.

 

I have no problem with internet shoppers if they are honest with me. I'll ask them upfront if they've been researching their trip and the prices they are getting. It makes my job easier, knowing what I'm up against and what type of budget they are looking at.

 

I am letting the cruiselines know about this thread. They are aware that rebating is still going on, but it is very much frowned upon. They do not want their product to turn into a commodity like the airlines, where it is price driven only.

 

 

Hold on ~~`First let me say I have a wonderful t/a. So, If I need a new washing maching and go to Sears, etc, etc, Sears gives me lots of info and prices and then I go to the next guy. I get prices and info from them. Do you think Sears should charge me a penalty because I decided to buy from guy X. I also wouldn't like it if that happened to me but that's the way it is. It's called free enterprize.

[Cthy651]

We have booked with the same travel agent for our last 6 cruises - what did we receive - zippo (sounds better that nothing) and on our last cruise we booked our own air - as she was going to charge $50.00 to book the air tickets. Normally we receive a call upon our return to inquire if we had a good time - last cruise May - Freedom of the Seas - nothing:mad:

[babs275]

I understand what you are saying and I shop around for things as well.

 

But your Sears analogy is really only pertinent to the "call center TA" who makes $10 hour with maybe bonus' based on sales and can give you maybe 5 or 10 timed minutes - and their livelyhood doesn't depend on you buying that cruise - they just move on to the next phone call. Same as the Sears washing machine guy. They are both being paid to be there whether you buy the machine or not.

 

What stacynan is refering to are the people that string an independent travel professional along and take up quite a bit of time checking this date or that itinerary and asking questions about ports - then take that info and go to a no-service website booking engine and make the purchase there. Most TA's these days are paid strictly commission - their time is what they are selling as they don't own the cruise inventory - so during the time the agent was talking with that person - she or he wasn't talking to somebody who was actually serious about buying something.