Not sure what will happen

[momofmeg]

Somehow this message got posted twice please diregard as I erased everything so the post would not be read twice.

[goodml]

Not for visitors Eliza - not sure about immigrants.

[momofmeg]

This is to goodml- the post you got offended at was talking about illegal Mexicans. Here in the south we have literally a population explosion we have so many here. I myself do not really care-they take the jobs most Americans don't want like Mac Donalds and the convenience stores etc. but it does irk when as middle class American our health insurance is becoming more and more expensive and covering less and less. For example 5 years ago -all a hospital visit cost us was zero-insurance picked up everything now if we stay just one night in the hosp. and have a few tests run it is like $3000 out of pocket. Heaven forbid if we got something really serious like cancer-I imagine we would have to go bankrupt WITH INSURANCE.

 

Okay I understand these are hard times etc. but when you read articles about illegal aliens getting free health care and food stamps it does irk you.

 

I mean no offense to anyone- I myself am definetly a heinz 57 when it comes to my ancestors and I know Mexican-Americans born in places like Texas and California has just as much a right to being a US citzen as I do as they are EVERY bit as much an American as I am. But at some point something HAS to be done about all the illegal aliens in this country. We used to be a land poorly populated with room for immigrants but that is just no longer true.

[Elizanessie]

Sorry guys but leaving this thread to you all over there,I am not getting invoved in political postings.....a wee comment is ok but heck now things are getting heavy.

 

Mmmm doughnuts and marshmallows for dinner I think :rolleyes:

 

Liz

[goodml]

I didn't originally pick up on the fact that Karen was referring to the US when she made her first post so it wasn't the immigrant issue that I took offense with. Up here, from time to time we see criticism in the US media that our borders are not being effectively protected on our side. Then I see a post (the original one about the donuts) making it sound like our border guards are over zealous and our policies are sheer foolishness when clearly, very similar rules apply to people crossing into the US. It ticks me off to realize how little people truly know about us (even the media) but how quickly they are willing to sound off and today perhaps I was a bit more sensitive about it than other days. I always feel better I suppose when I realize that there are still Americans, and some of you post here obviously, who realize that Canadians ARE their allies despite the disagreement over Iraq and despite the fact that we are as fiercely proud to be Canadian as you all are to be American. Obviously I overreacted a bit but I stand behind all my sentiments as written and thank you all for not flaming (so far)! It's a great group we've got here at cruisecritic.

[goodml]

Sorry guys but leaving this thread to you all over there,I am not getting invoved in political postings.....a wee comment is ok but heck now things are getting heavy.

 

Mmmm doughnuts and marshmallows for dinner I think :rolleyes:

 

Liz

OMG my kids would love to go for dinner at your house. I think I might just feed them brussel sprouts tonight just to be mean. (I actually like brussel sprouts - a little olive oil and sea salt and broil them - very tasty:))

 

Anyway don't run off - it's not that heavy really, and everyone is playing nice. I'm not going to preach anymore - my position is pretty clear now I guess.

[momofmeg]

To Insulin- It is not as simple as Americans living illegally in Canada for the health benefits. They can't even order drugs from Canada in most states-that is illegal- but must buy them in the US and pay more for the SAME drugs.

 

I would love it if we could move to Canada. We have a daughter with major health problems which some of you may gathered from my previous post. As I said in times past insurance picked up everything. Now it is costing us thousands every year. I would love for the US to get some kind of universal health care. I would GLADLY pay extra taxes for that-hey I am spending thousands every year anyway.

 

I know there are programs to help these type of things. Problem is she is over 18 besides, if you have a family income above $40,000 a year you don't qualify as you are considered that your income is too high. So if you have major health issues in the good old USA you do better to be poor or else make a six figure income-if you are middle class- not poor but not rich-too bad no help.

 

I also know it is not so easy to move and WORK in another country. I had a friend who married a non US citizen who was in the US on a work contract from his country. They met and married during this time and had TWO children together. When his job visa expired although he was married to a US citizen he had to leave. Canada took him in-well then my friend could not work in Canada. For 3 years she lived in Seattle while hubby lived in Vancouver until she finially got a work visa for Canada.

 

To me that was just sad- their situation. Obviously they were really married-the 2 kids proved that-but then the 2 had so much trouble just being able to live and work in the same country as a married couple. When you see all the illegal aliens here but yet -this guy married to an American and with a college education- could not get permission to live and work in the US.

[karenh1127]

I wonder if some of you Canadians would be so kind as to explain to me how your Socialized Health system works. I am being very serious too, not sarcastic this time. I know most of us Americans have made healthcare a big issue in the political scene and I for one like our insurance...........we have the luxury of choice and only a $15 co-pay for office visits and everything else (tests, hospital stays, etc.) is covered at 100% by the insurance as long as we use in network doctors. My husband has pays $100 a month for the policy to his employer. I think this is great insurance and am very thankful for it but how does this compare to what Canada has? Please someone enlighten me as I really dont know.

[Elizanessie]

goodml

 

you are welcome to all the brussels in my allotment !!! I hate veg,only when in soup can I eat carrots etc (just moved house and there is allotment with it)

 

mmm just a thought.....dont you think it strange the OP hasnt replied and it was there first posting......mmmm there used to be a guy on the RCCI board who used to do postings similiar to this one.......mmmm will need to delve further.....hey it is sunday night....its cold dark and wet....some detective work on the boards sounds like fun?

 

 

Liz

[goodml]

Our health care is totally government run and paid for through our taxes and ensures health care for everyone. We pay no user fees for office visits or surgery or hospital care and so on unless its being done for elective reasons such as plastic surgery etc. Our problem is that with the aging population the system is becoming more difficult to fund and there are waiting lists for things like mri's, cat scans, referrals to specialists etc. It took my mom a year to get an appointment with an orthopedic surgeon to have a knee replacement. No fees whatsoever but lots of painful waiting. Our system is good but most of us feel that we would like the option to be able to pay a fee and get service faster. That's an option that's not open to us as it "would create a two-tiered system" where the people with money can jump ahead of those without. Another flaw in the system is that doctor's salaries are capped and we therefore lose talented people all the time to countries where they can make a bigger buck (can't blame them). For all its flaws I have to say that I appreciate our system. My husband had a very frightening incident about 4 years ago with a tumour on his brain and the system really did come thru for us. Saw a specialist within 4 days - mri next day - surgery within 10 days of first symptoms and luckily the outcome was good. I think that when we really need it, the system does come thru for us but I believe that the best system probably lies somewhere between yours and ours. You're right though, there definitely is no financial distress (beyond taxes!) associated with medical care here.

[jaynak]

Another Canadian chiming in with my 2 bits...

1. We all want our borders to be more secure so we may just have to put up with some difficult situations. Shortly after 9-11 we Canadians were criticised greatly for having such open borders - now we are too fussy?? The days of the being simply asked if you have any 'fruit to declare' at the border are gone.

2. Regarding the question about how are health system works - I quote the last poster "You're right though, there definitely is no financial distress (beyond taxes!) associated with medical care here." I disagree with this - there are situations that are simply NOT covered. My son is juvenille diabetic. If he does not have insulin evey 6 hours he will DIE. This is not covered. His diabetes costs us over $400 every month. Yes, we have extra insurance on top of the government health insurance but they reimburse us a max of $800 per year. I'm sure others can offer situations like ours too... Not arguing - just pointing out that our systems isn't perfect for everyone.

 

One last thing regarding donuts - when my son was 4 he asked us one snowy night if we could go do some 'cinnamon buns' in the parking lot! Took us a while to figure out what on earth he meant!.. has become a family joke - at least we weren't thrown in jail!

[imsulin]

momofmeg - it truly seems to me that you really don't know what you're talking about re: the issue of US citizens ordering RX scripts from Canada. Check out a few websites - happens all the time. Also, it seems that you have a real grudge about "illegal aliens" (meaning Mexicans) living in the US, but don't have a clue as to the American citizens living "illegally" in Canada, and are totally OK with that.

 

BTW: it's IMSULIN, and not INSULIN.

[worfsmom]

Doing donuts probably was charged with "dangerous driving", which is a criminal offence.

Driving records may only go back three years, but borders "may" be different.

If it was only a traffic offence, they would not stop you from coming into Canada.

If it's a criminal offence, then you are going to have to get a pardon. You need to find out if it was a "criminal offence" that he was charged with.

You could always lie.

Regarding you UK folks, you would have to check with "Customs" to find out if we're going to "ink" you or not.

[goodml]

Another Canadian chiming in with my 2 bits...

1. We all want our borders to be more secure so we may just have to put up with some difficult situations. Shortly after 9-11 we Canadians were criticised greatly for having such open borders - now we are too fussy?? The days of the being simply asked if you have any 'fruit to declare' at the border are gone.

2. Regarding the question about how are health system works - I quote the last poster "You're right though, there definitely is no financial distress (beyond taxes!) associated with medical care here." I disagree with this - there are situations that are simply NOT covered. My son is juvenille diabetic. If he does not have insulin evey 6 hours he will DIE. This is not covered. His diabetes costs us over $400 every month. Yes, we have extra insurance on top of the government health insurance but they reimburse us a max of $800 per year. I'm sure others can offer situations like ours too... Not arguing - just pointing out that our systems isn't perfect for everyone.

 

One last thing regarding donuts - when my son was 4 he asked us one snowy night if we could go do some 'cinnamon buns' in the parking lot! Took us a while to figure out what on earth he meant!.. has become a family joke - at least we weren't thrown in jail!

You're absolutely right jaynak and obviously I just generalized because we couldn't possibly list every exclusion on a site like this nor would anyone want us to. I was just trying to get across without getting in too deep that the government pays for basic health care for all citizens and I definitely generalized too much. Our basic health care does not include drugs til you're a senior (generally) so people can most certainly have financial difficulties with affording medication. Our family is so lucky because my husband's health plan provided by his employer covers all of our prescriptions, dental etc so I often overlook that it can be a huge problem for others. Good luck with your son. I know what a worry that is.

[karenh1127]

Thanks for the info. I am starting to understand what it all means now however I still prefer the U.S. method. We have our problems too with getting timely appointments because of HMO's. If you are sick and want to see a doc you usually have to wait several days for an opening and by then youre usually well or dead! LOL! Some people's insurance will decline treatment for cancer, etc. Some wont. We have Medicaid for those under a certain salary but like one poster said.......those of us in the middle income have to pay out of pocket. We only pay $100/month but I know people who pay 600-700 a month to cover their family! We could never afford that! My parents are retired and to keep my mother's coverage for her breast cancer, heart disease, and diabetes he has to pay $900 a month in addition to the Medicare(insurace for those 65+). Perhaps our countries could get together and find a way to give good reliable healthcare without breaking everyone. THere are no easy answers and everyone will have different situations that require different solutions. But thanks again for clarifying it all.

As for the border thing......anyone who enters any country illegally (w/o permission or permit) is an illegal alien and should be deported......not given welfare and other perks. JMHO

[imsulin]

Karen - I'm sure you are talking about US citizens who enter Canada illegally (illegal aliens). You're right - they should not be given "welfare and other perks", and should be "deported" immediately!

 

That IS what you're talking about....right??

[karenh1127]

I guess I was talking about anyone who enters any country including Canada. If someone from the U.S. enters Canada illegally.......chunk 'em back! What specifically comes to mind is illegal aliens from Mexico because that is our biggest problem here in the states. Especially here in Texas where I live. If they make into the US, they can get government aid and California wants to give them drivers license and let them vote! I actually never gave it a thought about being denied access thru borders due to traffic violations. We have gone to Mexico before to get fertility drugs ($56 in Mexico compared to $1200 in U.S.) and we had to show border patrol our prescription going in and coming out. I agree with strict border regulations because of 9/11 but I never thought about it affecting people with minor offenses. BTW...I really never thought of having to go thru border patrol to get into Canada, not like I do about Mexico. Yall are just friendly neighbors!

[greatam]

momofmeg - it truly seems to me that you really don't know what you're talking about re: the issue of US citizens ordering RX scripts from Canada. Check out a few websites - happens all the time.

 

BUT, if Customs decides to confiscate the drugs, they can. Lost a $500.00 prescription for MY DOG. He was dying of lung cancer and needed a special medicine. MY vet had to charge me $1200.00 if I purchased from her. She told me to get it from Canada. I had to battle all the way to the Canadian Cancer Institute (something like that) to get this specific drug-Zenecard. Finally thought it was on the way to AZ. Got a notice from Customs instead, that my drug was being sent back to origin. It was ILLEGAL to import drugs from Canada. Yes, it's done all the time. But it is ILLEGAL.

 

Also, it seems that you have a real grudge about "illegal aliens" (meaning Mexicans) living in the US, but don't have a clue as to the American citizens living "illegally" in Canada, and are totally OK with that.

 

BTW: it's IMSULIN, and not INSULIN.

 

ILLEGAL is illegal. But the impact of American citizens living illegally in Canada is definitely NOT the impact of Mexican illegals.

 

Let me relate two short stories and you decide.

 

Here in AZ, we have a program for the poor called ACCHS (Access). They will pay for taxi fare to get you to the doctor. I live in an area which is 80% illegal (farm country). Someone has figured out about the taxi thing. Now, the women are making appointments, one a week, to take the kid to the doctor. When the taxi arrives, 3 or 4 women pile in the car, along with the one "sick" child. While the child is at the doctor, the others go grocery shopping. They have no cars which are legal enough to drive 47 miles to the grocery store. Taxi fare to Buckeye, AZ from Harquahala, AZ is $82.00 ONE WAY. Those are my tax dollars paying for grocery shopping.

 

I fell on my patio, hit a rock with my nose, and cut myself pretty badly. We could not get the bleeding stopped, so DH loaded me in the car for a trip to the emergency room. We went to the closest emergency room, it was so full they told me the wait would be 3 hours. Suggested I go to the Phoenix Memorial hospital. I walked in, waiting room wasn't too bad-maybe 20 people. Receptionist asked for my ACCHS card. I don't have an ACCHS card, I have this-Blue Cross. Nope, must have ACCHS. DH asked two or three people in the waiting room if they all had ACCHS. No one could even understand English. They were all illegals. I could not get service with Blue Cross, but they all get FREE medical care. Unless you are Canadian, those are YOUR tax dollars. Maybe we all should sneak across the border, NORTH.

[karenh1127]

It is pretty sad Greatam.......I know here in Houston the best trauma hospital is Ben Taub which is for basically non-insured people, immigrants, poor people, etc. Those of us with insurance are sent to Herman. Now dont get me wrong, Herman is an excellant hospital but the best is Ben Taub. Fortunately for us we have never had any life-threatening trauma. The worst hospital is the V.A. Now isnt that sad that our former military servers are given the worst care. Of course this is MHO but I would bet many locals would agree with me.

[imsulin]

Your current President is the one supporting this.

[greatam]

Your current President is the one supporting this.

 

Say what!!! I think you watch too much American mainstream (ABC, CBS, NBC) media. Obviously, you must be Canadian.

 

Give me one good reason why you believe our current President supports illegals from South of the Border. Don't give me the tired line-to get the Hispanic vote. Most Hispanics (except the Cubans in Fla) vote Democratic. Look to past Democratic administrations for all the "give-aways", catering to the Hispanic vote. I agree that not enough is being done and truly believe we could go back to the Bracero (guest worker) programs of the 50's and 60's. But our current President is not supporting illegals. It is usually the liberals and especially the ACLU that fight tooth and nail to allow the illegals their "rights". By the way, the AZ governor is a Democrat and has oversight for the ACCHS program, which is rapidly sinking the AZ budget.

 

AZ has Prop 200 on the ballot. It will probably pass with about 75% of the vote. NO government services (entitlement programs) without proof of American citizenship or legal, resident alien status. The ACLU and Por la Causa (Mexican advocacy org) have already either filed paperwork (ACLU has filed) to overturn Prop 200 or will file the paperwork, if Prop 200 passes. The California prop, which outlawed illegals getting driver's license and having the right to vote, is still tied up in court. The prop was shot down in a court in San Francisco. Now it is tied up in more court battles. It is the ACLU that is leading the fight for the "rights" of the illegals and telling the citizens that their wishes don't count. ACLU=Trial Lawyers Association=Democrats=

VP candidate.

 

I don't see our current President associated with any of those organizations.

[karenh1127]

Greatam..........THANK YOU! THANK YOU! THANK YOU!

[imsulin]

Say what, greatam?? I'm an American citizen from Colorado, and actually, I watch CNN most of the time, so obviously, your assumptions about me are inaccurate. Your current President doesn't have to be associated with any of those organizations. GWB wants the Latino vote. Period. Where were you last year?

[greatam]

Say what, greatam?? I'm an American citizen from Colorado, and actually, I watch CNN most of the time, so obviously, your assumptions about me are inaccurate. Your current President doesn't have to be associated with any of those organizations. GWB wants the Latino vote. Period. Where were you last year?

 

Wow!! An American citizen from Colorado and George W. Bush is MY President. Who is your President? Really thought Colorado was part of the USA. Heck, I know it is. My parents lived there for 55+ years.

 

You never did answer my question. What is MY President doing to encourage illegals from South of the Border? And I have no idea what you meant by the last comment.

 

I think every Republican, including Colorado's Senators and Congressmen, is courting the Latino vote, due to the large Latino population in certain states. That doesn't mean they will get the Latino vote. However, they are not courting the "illegals", especially Tom Tancredo.

 

Other than a few radical Chicano organizations, most Latino's born and raised in the US have very little use for the "illegals". In fact, most are as incensed about the problem, if not more so, than most of the rest of us. You can take that to the bank from someone who was born and raised in East Los Angeles, which is now almost all "illegal". The friends I grew up with, almost all with Mexican heritage, used to call immigration when they found illegals in the neighborhood. Finally, the Americans just moved away and turned the entire neigborhood over to the illegals and the few gang bangers that are left. The illegals make it much harder on the Americans with Mexican heritage to get a good job than on anyone else.

 

Stop and think about the impact the "illegals" have had on your own state. Monfort (Con-Agra) used to pay $12-16.00 hr to work in the packing house. Now you are lucky if you start at $7.00. Some of that drop is due to the loss of influence from the unions. But a lot of it is due to the illegals which find their way to the packing houses. Coors wages have dropped considerably from the 70's-80's. And that is only the beginning. The welfare programs, health costs, etc. have had an impact on every state inundated with illegals.

 

Imsulin, I am not trying to quarrel with you, other than over the "MY President" comment. I really would like to hear your thoughts on why you think the President is encouraging the illegal situation. But I guess the bottom line is-can't we attempt to come up with SOME KIND of solution?

 

This has been a very interesting discussion, although far afield from what the OP asked.

[imsulin]

MY President is George W. Bush ...by default. Didn't vote for him, don't like him, will never like him, will never vote for him, and my 17-year old cat can speak better proper English than he can! (OK - I'm exaggerating) Don't even get me started on Tom Tancredo. He did a lot of damage to public education in the state of Colorado. I'm thankful I was able to retire when I did. Ask any public school teacher in Colorado what they think of T.T. It's also interesting to see that while some "Americans" are whining about the "illegals" invading America, , they are also "whining" about the problems they may incur while attempting to enter Canada....since they are "Americans"!! It truly does work both ways! Ask Dick Cheney about "outsourcing" - seems that Haliburton has been doing just that for a couple of years...in Iraq! Ask Condoleeza Rice how much she has contributed to the University of

Denver Alumni Fund. I graduated from there, too (B.A. in 1964, M.A. in 1971), and give what I can every year. Just don't have her millions, and don't want them. Nice conversing with you, but I will leave this scenario and thread by choice. Thanks.