Are onboard mutinies justified?

[98Charlie]

Not to pick nits here but, why do we refer to these actions as "mutinies"? To me, mutiny paints a picture of armed rebellion, sedition, and insurrection with the purpose of taking control of the established authority, in this case the ship. The word conjures up the images of "Mutiny on the Bounty" and "The Caine Mutiny" both which portrayed the Captains of the ships as truly unfit for command and the mutineers as the heroes of the day.

 

If I am reading and understanding the reports here, what happened on the Miracle was really a protest. Reports (not necessarily reliable) said that up to 300 were involved. So, probably less than 10% of the passengers were actually protesters. And of that group I feel certain that there was only a handfull of vocal protesters that were able to convince a small number of the other passengers to join them.

 

Good news doesn't sell so I don't suppose I'll see a headline of

1800 Passengers Enjoy Cruise On Carnival Miracle

 

Having gotten that off of my chest, I return you to your regular programming:p

 

Charlie

[pippin03]

I have taken this cruise from New York and hit a hurricane. We missed a port. So what! I have been on several cruises and missed ports, due to weather and due to strikes. The cruise line cannot be responsible for these events as they have no control. As long as the cruise line finds other ports or things for the guests to do.

 

Nobody blames a resort if a hurricane hits and the guests cannot use the beach.

[corvettelover]

What a bunch of whiners!!!

Grow up- weather happens, and its nobody's fault...

[98Charlie]

BTW, I voted if you can't handle a missed port, don't cruise during hurricane season

 

Charlie

[Widespreadpanic]

What was the mutinous lawyer thinking?? If he wanted to experience the adventure of sailing in the wake of a hurricane, he'd have to buy his own ship to do it in, because no captain in his/her right mind would take that chance. I wonder if they have a "brig" on cruise ships...?

[LadyGator97]

My question is...what did they think they were going to do at these ports of call during a hurricane??? Not like you could go snorkeling or sight seeing...everything was probably closed!

 

Your cheap room is your refund.

[CA27]

We were on Royal Caribbean's Sovereign of the Sea last Monday (September 1 through Friday, September 5). While boarding staff told us we were going to Nassau and Key West, instead of Nassau and RCCL's private Island, Coco Cay.

Most of the passengers were perfectly happy with the substitution, knowing Coca Cay was a tender port, and iffy when the seas are only slightly rough.

 

Throughout the cruise we were kept well informed about the storm and any potential changes to our itinerary. Royal Caribbean's crew and other staff were their usual friendly and open and informative selves.

 

They did a wonderful job of avoiding any stormy weather and we didn't even it any rain till we were docking in Port Canaveral at the end of the trip.

 

I cannot imagine booking a cruise during Hurricane season and not being prepared for changes to the itinerary. Bravo to Royal Caribbean for making intelligent choices.

 

I saw the RCCL SOS and Disney Magic sail out before we did on Monday, and kept wondering where they where heading with the oncoming storm.

 

Did you get to Nassau on Tuesday? If so, how were the conditions there on that day? The Miracle was supposed to go there on Tuesday 9/2, but the captain said that due to high winds in Nassau, we couldn't go into Nassau and we would go into Freeport and another port, to be announced later.

 

If there were other ships in Nassau on that day, it makes you wonder if Carnival was just blowing smoke up our you know what by announcing a stop in Nassau, when in reality it had no plans to go into Nassau.

 

The cancelling of Nassau for a mystery port was really was set off the commotion.

[sun@sea]

Having cruised from both the East and West coasts....several times....I find the Caribbean cruises (with lots of Easterners aboard) have many more malcontents who gripe at any opportunity. West coast folks seem a little more laid back and willing to take things as they come. Give me a Mexican Riveria cruise anyday. Just a cultural thing I guess.

[BetteBoop57]

What bothers me the most is that the cruise made sure it went to three ports...hence they didn't have to make any refunds. Rhode Island?? Are you kidding me?? :eek:

 

 

Yes, when you cruise during hurricane season, these things can and DO happen. I think it was the Captain's crude, rude behavior that incited the passengers more than diverting the ship out of danger.

[AV Lady]

It all began wonderfully, and then Mother Nature changed her mind....

 

It came up very quickly, first as a tropical storm and developing into what turned out to be a deadly hurricane. Our Captain was the first to report it and had navigated around it keeping us safe even though we got tossed around a lot in 35' seas. There was also lots of damage on the Lido deck. Dishes broken, glassware everywhere, etc.. Of course we were late getting into our first port, Puerto Vallarta, and were notified that we would not be able to go to Mazatlan.

 

That's when it started. Some 200+ people began to make complete a$$es of themselves yelling, screaming, demanding refunds, flights, luggage etc.. Finally, those that wanted were allowed to leave the ship in PV, and flights and lodging was arranged by Carnival with most assuming that they would continue their vacation on land. However, as we learned later, the Mexican government had other plans. They were taken directly to the airport where they waited for flights back to LAX!

 

I've never seen such ignorance in my life as was displayed on this ship. In addition to Mazatlan we also missed Cabo San Lucas. (Both were devastated by the hurricane, and Ensenada was substituted.) I'm forever grateful for the expertise of our Captain whose name, sadly, I cannot remember, for keeping us safe.

 

I agree with a previous poster who stated that the same rules that apply to air travel should apply to cruise ships.

 

AV Lady

(The 2500.00 I won on the slots didn't hurt either! :D )

[Gotta Cruz]

Mutiny? I thought all the"Pirates" were on the Disney Wonder. :rolleyes: Yes it would be VERY disappointing not to see the port you had built your cruise around BUT I put my safety in the hands of the Captain when I cruise and the Captain when I fly. They know more than we do and if I miss a port or end up in another city as long as I was safe I could deal with it. I feel sorry for trouble causing people, seems most of it is done for the attention only. Relax, life is short.:D

[CA27]

A couple we met on the tender line at Newport complained to us about the captain's pompous attitude and that they were removed the gratuities because they didn't want Carnival to "touch" that money before passing it on to the crew, and that they would rather tip their waiters & stewards directly.

 

I sure hope they did tip accordingly.

[trock]

It all began wonderfully, and then Mother Nature changed her mind....

 

It came up very quickly, first as a tropical storm and developing into what turned out to be a deadly hurricane. Our Captain was the first to report it and had navigated around it keeping us safe even though we got tossed around a lot in 35' seas. There was also lots of damage on the Lido deck. Dishes broken, glassware everywhere, etc.. Of course we were late getting into our first port, Puerto Vallarta, and were notified that we would not be able to go to Mazatlan.

 

That's when it started. Some 200+ people began to make complete a$$es of themselves yelling, screaming, demanding refunds, flights, luggage etc.. Finally, those that wanted were allowed to leave the ship in PV, and flights and lodging was arranged by Carnival with most assuming that they would continue their vacation on land. However, as we learned later, the Mexican government had other plans. They were taken directly to the airport where they waited for flights back to LAX!

 

I've never seen such ignorance in my life as was displayed on this ship. In addition to Mazatlan we also missed Cabo San Lucas. (Both were devastated by the hurricane, and Ensenada was substituted.) I'm forever grateful for the expertise of our Captain whose name, sadly, I cannot remember, for keeping us safe.

 

I agree with a previous poster who stated that the same rules that apply to air travel should apply to cruise ships.

 

AV Lady

(The 2500.00 I won on the slots didn't hurt either! :D )

 

 

Impossible! Only people from NY and the Northeast behave this way!:p

 

Glad you handled it well and even better nice winnings!! Good for you!!!:)

[98Charlie]

What bothers me the most is that the cruise made sure it went to three ports...hence they didn't have to make any refunds. Rhode Island?? Are you kidding me?? :eek:

 

 

Yes, when you cruise during hurricane season, these things can and DO happen. I think it was the Captain's crude, rude behavior that incited the passengers more than diverting the ship out of danger.

OTOH, if they had not gone somewhere there would be the group that loves ports going, "Yecch, another sea day. We should get money back and free drinks."

 

Charlie

[levart57]

I was definitely disappointed about the itinerary change, but I didn't remove the gratuities from my bill. That was just a stupid, low-class, misguided move. As a matter of fact, I handed our waiters & stewards extra $$ for their hard work; they really earned it. We had a good time overall.

 

What a lot of people who weren't on this cruise don't seem to get, is that it was the lack of communication from the CD & purser's that upset people the most and not so much the itinerary change.

 

You have to wonder why Carnival scrapped Nassau, since the Sovereign of the Seas departed from PC towards Nassau on the same day the Carnival Miracle was supposed to do the same.

 

I better put on my fire-proof suit so that I don't get flamed.

 

The cruise line should have made announcements to improve communication. This is a must. However, the first priority is safety and no one has control over the weather.

[SmartTraveller]

Last week, passengers on Carnival Miracle started a near revolt when a significant itinerary change due to Tropical Storm Hanna turned their Eastern Caribbean sailing into a cruise to Florida, the Bahamas...and Newport, Rhode Island. Cruise Critic Editor in Chief Carolyn Spencer Brown shares her opinion on onboard mutinies in today's From the Bridge feature: http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=736

 

I unfortunately witnessed this type of behavior on Celebrity Mercury in March this year on a cruise from Auckland to Hawaii. We missed Rarotonga due to big seas making the tender ride to shore too dangerous. The ship was also not holding its anchored position very well. That day, I was observing the big seas and had come to the conclusion I would not go ashore (as I had been in a frightening situation in a tender at the Falklands in similar seas) when the Captain made the announcement that none of us would go ashore. Bravo! Good call, I thought. The Captain cirmcumnavigated the island as close as he could so we could at least get a look. This caused a huge amount of whingeing and whining amongst passengers. The Captain of any vessel has to make the best decision to keep his ship and passengers safe - the whingers and whiners forget this. However these are the same people who would be outraged if there were any emergencies. The poor old Captain cant win.

 

But it got worse....much worse

 

When we arrived at Christmas Island in Kirabati, there was an abnormally low tide. The first tender ran aground and although was eventually moved off, its bottom was damaged. The second tender also ran aground and it took over an hour to to free it. At that point the Captain rightly halted tender operations as any further damage to tenders would mean that our ship could go nowhere. I was on the first tender - there was no danger to passengers when we grounde as the water was so shallow that you could have walked ashore! When we returned to the ship later that day (being totally oblivious to the fact that others had not got ahsore), we were attacked verbally by other passengers. People were VERY nasty - we quickly removed the flowers given to us by the locals so we could not be identified as one of those who got ashore. Celebrity had provided free drinks all afternoon - a great mistake given the tales of outrageous behaviour including alcohol fuelled fights/fisticuffs. The whining went on for days makeing for a very bad atmosphere! It was unbearable and spoilt the cruise for me and many others. The Captain made not one but many grovelling apologies. One would have been quite sufficient. We were given compensation - totally unecessary in my view.

 

People dont seem to understand that even on a massive cruise ship you are at the mercy of Mother Nature. The weather nor sea conditions can be controlled by the Captain or the Cruise line. If you cruise, then you have to be flexible and go with it, supporting, not critiscising the Captain for making decisions that keep you safe!

[skipp_r1]

I have come to the conclusion that these whiners are all illerate and stupid:p . Before you put a dime down on a cruise you are told that ports of calls can be changed at any time.

 

On our first cruise with our youngest son (15), the ship couldn't dock at St. Marten because a distant hurricane was causing 8 foot waves at the dock. The Captain of the Enchantment of the Seas circled the island all day keeping us informed of the sea condition. My son was disappointed because we were going to go kyaking for the 1st time. At about three o'clock we docked for 2 hours and got to walk around the town at least, and he didn't want to go because the ship had so many things for the teens to do on board, and all his new girl friends were staying on board to take part in these activities:cool: .

 

People have to understand they are not parking a car, the Captain can not take a chance of docking in heay seas and damaging the ship or the pier, likewise they cannot use tenders if the bay has high waves as this could damage the ship or injure passengers getting on and off.

 

Use the sense god gave you and instead of getting a life be glad the company and the Captain made sure you still HAVE A LIFE.:D

[Celtress]

I've missed ports on 2 cruises, the first was on RCL and we missed Bermuda due to a big storm, the second was on NCL and we missed Roatan due to a medical emergency. Although disappointed at the time it all turned out good. RCL took us to the Azores instead of Bermuda (for me that was a bonus!), and on NCL we had an extra day at sea, we relaxed on deck and had a great time.

 

Those who get angry at such situations and resort to mutiny only accomplish showing themselves to be a *****. By their yelling and protesting do they expect the Captain to give in, turn the ship around and risk the lives of everyone onboard as well as a multi-million dollar ship? Do they think the Captain can turn back the storm? And what good does it do to hold back the tips from the hardworking staff? They get paid very little and the tips are a significant part of their income. Punnishing them is completely unfair.

 

Are the mutinous passengers justified? No, in my opinion they are childish, stupid and selfish.

[grandmato4]

Mutiny should never be an option for missed ports and/or not sticking to an original itinerary or very little else for that matter. Unfortuantely most people now-a-days either fail to even attempt to read the fine print or think it shouldn't ever apply to them or their situation.

 

Disappointment is one thing, and that I certainly understand that, but mutiny and/or negativeness is quite another.

 

From reports of passengers on board the Miracle it is unfortunate but it sounds as if this just happened to be the week that the ship was filled with more than the normal share of rude, obnoxious, arrogant cruisers and that combined with a total change in itinerary along with a Captain whose judgement in what to say, when to say it and how to say it was more than a little lacking resulted in a horrible combination all the way around.

 

I truly feel sorry for the many passengers on board that ship that did their best to enjoy their vacation reguardless of where the ship did or did not take them and had to endure any of the unneccessary unpleasantness.

[B+S]

My only possibly "original" thought to contribute is that the "non-mutinous" passengers aboard any cruise should rightfully expect that ships' staff be responsible for preventing any and all other passengers to violate the terms of all of passenger agreements and behave in any way which was wreck-less or put the other 1800 passengers in danger, if that was ever even the case. The original author's use of the word "mutiny" portends that, but was that what really happened? We don't really have enough info here on the events or the sequence thereof.

 

Too often I have been in attendance at hotels, arenas, or other avenues where the rights of "free expression" of a few completely over ran the rights of "peaceful pursuit" by the remaining vast majority. We are as a society too tollerant of such behavior under the guise of free speech! Any riotous or "mutinous" behavior should have been immediately quelled by ship staff out of respect for the remainder of the passengers. Was that the case?

 

That being said, we may never know the truth here - pilots do on occasion fly loaded jumbo jets while intoxicated, captains of oil tankers negligently hit rocks, and corporations entrusted by the public (ie Enron) on occasion display heinous disregard for the dignity of those in their care. The underlying causation here may have been a hurricane, or it may have been a poor set of decisions by the captain exacerbated by poor communication, or most likely, some of both. I'll blame (for it's the American way) the original author for not supplying us all with the facts and of using inflamatory language, for a mutiny it was not.

[grammacassi]

While I voted No -- the captain took the attitude of "Tuff S***, you're a bunch of suckers anyway, we don't care about you or how this impacted your vacations, we gave you a cruise so shut up already." quote]

 

?:rolleyes: ? Is this a direct quote from the capitain? You are the only one who has said the captain said this and you weren't even on the ship??:(

[Fran Harp]

I am stunned that people honestly believe they are entitled to agitate even to the point of having a captain of a cruise ship change something for what they perceive as their convenience, that they have paid for those ports and therefore should go there. First, the captain makes that decision in consultation with port captains and officials at the cruise line - and of course itinerary changes will be necessary, for a whole variety of reasons. Obviously there is no thought as to what the issues are, including trying to dock in heavy seas and high winds, or tendering???? Seriously - don't sail in hurricane season unless you are willing to (literally) roll with it. Read the fine print. - and above all, think - would you really rather risk death than life?

 

Put them off at the first port the ship can get into. Their dollars aren't that valuable.

 

As for me, I wouldn't care if we went into ports or not. Just being on a ship sailing would be good enough, I'd have fun either way.

 

Fran in Toronto

[B+S]

... But it got worse....much worse

...when we returned to the ship later that day, we were attacked verbally by other passengers.

...People were VERY nasty...

...tales of outrageous behaviour including alcohol fuelled fights/fisticuffs...

...The whining went on for days makeing for a very bad atmosphere!

 

Exactly why ships' staff must be held accountable for controling order for the safety of other passengers. If not them, who?

[PETE45]

I have spent many months at sea on the bridge of a navy ship. During that time I saw my fair share of storm conditions. If those idiots who were upset that the crew altered course in order to avoid a hurricane had ever experienced even a moderate storm at sea, they would have had a far different attitude toward the crew's decision. I remember one night on the bridge in a storm off of Cape Hatteras watching the clinometer register rolls up to 38 degrees. That was in a whole gale, not a hurricane. I wonder what they would have said if they had experienced conditions like that. I want the crew of any ship that I sail on to err on the side of safety and the comfort of passengers. They should thank the crew of the Miracle for a job well done.

[gpw45]

Ports? I go for the ship. Ports are nice, sometimes. I've been to Nassau more than enough times. We are scheduled to go in 2 weeks and are watching the hurricanes. The only reason I'm going to get off the ship is to get my Hard Rock Cafe souvenir. I'm far more concerned about safety and comfort. This will be our third attempt to go to Coco Cay. We have had to skip it twice before. Oh well. I expect and want the ship to avoid the storms and if it means missing a port, so be it. If missing ports is really a concern, don't book during this time of year. Ever wonder why those weeks are lower rates?