Are onboard mutinies justified?

[Socref124]

Which one of the passengers was Gilligan and which one was Mary Ann?

As for us, we would rather divert and be safe than go into the storm and end up on Gilligans Island.

[trock]

Um...you might want to go back and read my post. What I said was that the captain took that attitude, not that he used those specific words. Ask someone who was on the ship and heard the "suckers" comment if they felt that was his attitude.

 

You weren't on the ship, right? Neither was I but I have talked to people who were.. The Captain in an attempt at humor and levity in the theatre was joking with the audience..

 

Have you never seen the staff and the dry wit of many Europeans?

 

Perhaps communication could have been better, there are those that said it was fine.. I was not there..

 

This is so ridiculous and such an attempt by those on board to get something for nothing..:rolleyes:

[Walyo]

Whyam I surprised? The ringleader was an attorney. I love folks who have no clue as to the dangers, trying to tell those who are paid to assess and deal with the dangers that the professionals do not know what they are doing. Putting 2,500 plus passengers, as well as the crew in harms way so you won't be put out is a bit self centered.

 

The old tenant "Thou shalt not whine!" is as true here as ever. Taking your vitrol out on the poor crew members is just simply juvenile and mean spiritied.

 

Not being a lawyer, and, obvioulsy not totally familar with maritime law, I thought that mutiny was a "capital crime". Now walking the plank, or being put off the ship in an unprovisioned rowboat might be extreme, but a little brig time and maybe public flogging tied to a mast using the cat 'o nine tails might just get the attention of these self centered jerks. All they do is mess it up for the rest of us who look forward to a nice quiet cruise wherever they have to go to avoid the heavy seas and the stormy weather.

[rpjkw11]

During hurricane season one pays their money and takes their chances. Three years ago we were booked on Princess for the eastern caribbean, but Rita forced us to do the western. It was the second western for us, but it was still a great cruise. Last October on board the Maasdam we were hounded by a tropical storm from Aruba all the way back to Fort Lauderdale. Man, the ship was really rockin' and a rollin'. Folks could hardly walk. We were late in docking so disembarkation was a little crazy. Thankfully I didn't get sick and actually had a blast due to the weather. It would bother me if it were to happen again, though I much prefer smooth sailing.

 

Bob

[CA27]

You weren't on the ship, right? Neither was I but I have talked to people who were.. The Captain in an attempt at humor and levity in the theatre was joking with the audience..

 

Have you never seen the staff and the dry wit of many Europeans?

 

Perhaps communication could have been better, there are those that said it was fine.. I was not there..

 

This is so ridiculous and such an attempt by those on board to get something for nothing..:rolleyes:

 

I hope this clarifies the whole "sucker" controversy. When the captain made one of his announcements, he said, and I'm paraphrasing "If it makes you feel any better, I'll have to deal with a couple of these suckers (hurricanes) on the next cruise". He was referring to the hurricanes that were looming in the horizon (Ike & Josephine).

 

I was in my cabin when that announcement came on, so I was able to hear it pretty well. In the noisy areas like the Lido deck, you can barely hear the announcements, so maybe some people only heard the word "sucker". Who knows.

[crusinmama22]

When booking a cruise (we have been cruising since 1978) one should know, itinaries change -- if you can't accept that -- book something other then a cruise. Don't make everyone else uncomfortable because you booked in hurricane season and did not make port.

 

Spend the extra money and go when the weather is better !!

 

I have no sympathy for anyone who books during hurricane season.

 

Don't be so cheap go when the weather is better !

 

We travel in February and love it.

 

I have tried Christmas week -- was not happy with the weather -- and have gone back to February - Presidents Week.

 

We are school teachers and must travel during school vacation.

 

If you book early enough -- you can get a great deal !

 

Best of Luck !

[Toddcan]

When booking a cruise (we have been cruising since 1978) one should know, itinaries change -- if you can't accept that -- book something other then a cruise. Don't make everyone else uncomfortable because you booked in hurricane season and did not make port.

 

Spend the extra money and go when the weather is better !!

 

I have no sympathy for anyone who books during hurricane season.

 

Don't be so cheap go when the weather is better !

 

We travel in February and love it.

 

I have tried Christmas week -- was not happy with the weather -- and have gone back to February - Presidents Week.

 

We are school teachers and must travel during school vacation.

 

If you book early enough -- you can get a great deal !

 

Best of Luck !

 

HUH?

 

Check the pricing.. Crusing during July/Aug (hurricane season) is MORE expensive than cruising in Feb. It's supply and demand. We cruise only during school breaks as well, however, there are no breaks in our schools in Feb, unless you are in college/university.

 

Frankly, there is little choice but to cruise in the summer for us. Spring break is the only other option, which we have done too.

 

But, I understand there is a risk of an interruption due to weather, no biggie.

[JBrid23456]

Although I fully understand port changes and have experienced weather related ones in the past, I must say that if I left the northeast where I live to go on a Caribbean cruise, the last place I would want to visit would be Rhode Island. Although I would not have joined a "mutiny" I might have been writing the cruise line at least hoping for some shipboard credits on a future cruise.

[HorizonGirl]

Mutinies due to acts of nature? Come on! I have taken 17 cruises since 1992, most in summer. Bermuda alone 5 times during peak Hurricane Season. Granted, the 1990s and very early 2000s were light on hurricanes. But, we hit a storm one June from NYC to Bermuda, and were delayed into Hamilton. No one minded, well the few who could actually get out of bed, as most people were laid up with green complexions. Half the crew were down with seasickness. No one complained, as we were all pretty scared when we saw the waves coming over the top of Celebrity's Zenith, the 11th Deck. So, we lost 1/2 a day in Bermuda. Better than to die at sea!

 

These "mutinous" people need to take a step back from their own selfish wants. You book a cruise during hurricane season, you take a risk on being diverted, even cancelled. It is not the captain nor crew's fault; a hurricane is an act of nature. Review your contracts people, and look into maritime law. One of the duties of a ship's captain is his to protect his vessel and his crew. And his passengers. To remove tips from the hardworking staff who kiss your butts all week, for shame!

 

You want to live dangerously and risk your life, go skydiving! Other cruise passengers don't need their vacation disrupted because of you.

[trajan]

Wow, I read the whole thread. Very interesting and ty to everyone who posted.

 

Sounds like the Captain and crew tried to do a decent job. There was miscommunication, people misheard things and possibly they didn't do an A+ job of customer relations.

 

I doubt the cruise line was trying to pull any shenanigans to exploit the situation and save money but that does happen sometime.

 

In regards to the mutiny, of course cruise passengers can't mutiny. They are not crew but it sounds catchy in the news.

 

Personally I like cruising in the fall because of the deals and if a port is missed I don't care. Just being on the ship is great too. The only downside can be the jackasses who then try to make it miserable for everyone.

 

Why do they do it? Because frequently it gets results. Complain and you can get free stuff or rebates or whatever. Keep silent and you get whatever they chose to voluntarily give you. Now that this story has generated negative publicity, whether it was such a big deal or not, there is even a greater chance that the passengers will get something.

 

Tough situation. I feel sorry for the hard working crew that have to deal with this. With holding tips suck but if you want to send a message and add another disgruntled voice that the company has to hear from that is one way to do it. Regardless in this situation if the crew had handled it all well I'd have given em more, not less.

[MrPete]

Although I would not have joined a "mutiny" I might have been writing the cruise line at least hoping for some shipboard credits on a future cruise.

 

Out of curiosity, to cover what expense?

[FinelyCruising]

Wow, I read the whole thread. Very interesting and ty to everyone who posted.

 

Sounds like the Captain and crew tried to do a decent job. There was miscommunication, people misheard things and possibly they didn't do an A+ job of customer relations.

 

I doubt the cruise line was trying to pull any shenanigans to exploit the situation and save money but that does happen sometime.

 

In regards to the mutiny, of course cruise passengers can't mutiny. They are not crew but it sounds catchy in the news.

 

Personally I like cruising in the fall because of the deals and if a port is missed I don't care. Just being on the ship is great too. The only downside can be the jackasses who then try to make it miserable for everyone.

 

Why do they do it? Because frequently it gets results. Complain and you can get free stuff or rebates or whatever. Keep silent and you get whatever they chose to voluntarily give you. Now that this story has generated negative publicity, whether it was such a big deal or not, there is even a greater chance that the passengers will get something.

 

Tough situation. I feel sorry for the hard working crew that have to deal with this. With holding tips suck but if you want to send a message and add another disgruntled voice that the company has to hear from that is one way to do it. Regardless in this situation if the crew had handled it all well I'd have given em more, not less.

 

It's no win. If they communicated A+ it would be something else like missed ports.;)

[chiefwoodie]

When booking a cruise you should know, that itinaries can change due to situation beyond the control of the Captain. Before this situation brings itself to bear on the crew just think what is going on. The brigde crew is watching the storm with all of the required weather related equipment which would probable out do any TV station. They are tracking any storm which maybe in their paths. So if a strom is in the area then they can manuver the ship out of the extreme weather so the passengers can enjoy their trip. So if you can not be part of the solution, and continue to bother the crew with your actions DO NOT BOOK A CRUISE during hurricane season. Remember, the captain is incharge and he does have a security force at his disposal to take action if needed. Grow up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and accept it

[shofer]

Being in the medical field, I can tell you that more lawsuits are filed for malpractice due to miscommunication than anything else. As a nurse, I can tell when someone is "not getting" what I am trying to say. I make a special effort to explain and have them tell me what they think is going on. A few minutes more makes a big difference when people are stressed.

 

That being said, I think most of these "mutinies" are due to poor communication from the bridge as to what exactly is going on. Of course, the Captain may be changing things minute by minute as his information comes in. The cruise director should be utilized in these instances to help explain to the passengers the dangers involved. The Captains often speak broken English and are hard to understand.

 

Can you imagine the impact and the lawsuits that would erupt if the ship sailed directly in a hurricane's path just to keep the schedule? Certainly the passengers are disappointed because their vacation is not exactly as they planned but life happens! No one can control the weather. And it is printed in the cruise documents that the cruiseline can alter the destinations if it is too dangerous.

 

A few people will jump on the "mutiny" bandwagon thinking they are going to get a free cruise out of it. The ringleaders are just self centered egotists who are only concerned w/me, me, me. Some of these people ought to just stay home where they can control everything around them.

[jswan]

The Cruise Line was very wise to stay away from harm's way. Remember when the Windjammer was lost forever during a hurricane,

I have been on a ship whose Captain decided not to stop at a certain North African county----only 3 or 4 persons would have been able get off the ship.The majority would have to stay on boar! Fortunately we were able to have a delightful time somewhere else!!!

[alioness]

I put my safety and that of my loved one totally in the hands of the capatain and crew who are trained to be concerned for that while I get to enjoy!! Enough said.

 

Cheers Barb

[sistermerm]

The cruise line probably saved money by not having to travel as far, and it possibly paid lower port fees, so I think a cost adjustment would have been appropriate. It probably would have been a very small adjustment.

 

Having to refund some money is a risk the cruise line takes by choosing to run Caribbean cruises during hurricane season (the flip side of "passengers should know what they're getting into" is "cruise lines know what they might be getting passengers into").

 

No, it's not good to reduce your tip, because it's not the fault of anyone onboard that the ship was rerouted, but face it: that's the ONLY protest a passenger can make. Whether it's effective as a protest or not, it at least makes the passengers feel like they've done something. The cruise line is being stupid by making this the only alternative.

 

(Will it bother me if we have to skip all the scheduled ports on my next cruise? Not a bit.)

 

and if it cost MORE to use to the alternate ports of call, would you be willing to pay the difference? Probably not! Itineraries are always subject to change... suck it up or do land based vacations in hurricane season and pray that a hurricane doesn't hit your destination

[broland]

I have mixed feelings about this. The Miracle ran into bad weather, which does happen during Hurricane season. Missed or changed itineraries can be expected. The safety of the passengers is most important. The crew should still be tipped. Afterall all this commotion wasn't their fault. The full range of on-board activities were apparently provided. Although not what they bargained for, Newport, RI is a great city to see. We really enjoyed our visit there on a New England/Canada cruise a number of years ago. Not a Caribbean port, and not a top choice for Easterners, I know, but still a beautiful and SAFE place to be.

Communication is another issue. I don't believe that Carnival, or any of the cruise lines, are upfront with people from the beginning. When boarding, passengers should have received a note, or been told by the person checking them in that an itinerary change was probable and given that passenger a chance to cancel their cruise if the itinerary was so important. And remaining professional, unsarcastic and demeaning in the dialog is imperative for the Captain and crew.

I'm not sure Carnival reacted quickly enough to the storm. My guess (and it is only a guess) is that other cruiselines made earlier decisions and comitted to alternative ports. By the time Carnival got to making that decision, many of these ports were probably already at maximum capacity and they couldn't dock there. That left few choices of alternative ports.

This said, our experience on the Navigator of the Seas last April was not acceptable. On a two week cruise we had one day in Bermuda and one day in Lisbon. All other Spanish ports were cancelled. This was due to RCI not repairing a set of stabilizers before reaching Lisbon. Although the story we got was that they went out during our sailing from Bermuda to Lisbon on very calm waters, we heard differently from the crew...that they were damaged in a storm before our cruise ever left Fort Lauderdale. Anyway, RCI put the passengers at risk of very high seas without stabilizers on a Transatlantic cruise, and they got caught by the Lisbon authorities. They would not let us leave port until the stabilizers were fixed. (They were ultimately cut off and dropped to the bottom of the sea!) We did get small vouchers toward a future cruise, based of the cost of our cruise, not future cruise, but passengers were irate. Had RCI taken their responsibility and made the necessary repairs, this unfortunate set of circumstances would never have happened. I believe passengers should be angry about this irresponsible behavior.

So, in summary...weather is one thing, and maintenance is another. It depends on the circumstances. We are stockholders and there are other avenues than causing a riot onboard. Another approach: If everyone wrote to the home office, and didn't take another cruise with the offending company, the disatisfaction and reduction in passengers, would force the company to take notice.

But safety first! One snorkling trip is not worth your life!

[BermudaSunshine]

I think somewhere in the fine print of cruise documents is a statememt to the effect that the cruise line reserves the right to alter the itinerary if it is deemed so necessary. I believe this is not a choice that the line or its captains make lightly as it causes them a fair share of grief just to make these last minute changes. I think the passengers should have seriously considered the alternatives - high seas - rain - wind. Does that make for a good vacation? Now I understand that if you think you are going south and you have no wardrobe for north that is a problem but again in Hurricane season you should be aware of some likelyhood of change. Sorry there were inconvenienced passengers but hey they all made it home safely right?

 

Happy sailing to all!

[mguy2008]

Section 2 Subsection B

"Carnival’s vessels visit numerous ports in a number of countries. Guests assume responsibility for their own safety and Carnival cannot guarantee Guest’s safety at any time. The United States Department of State, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and other governmental and tourist organizations regularly issue advisories and warnings to travelers and Carnival strongly recommends Guests obtain and consider such information when making travel decisions. Carnival assumes no responsibility for gathering said information. The Guest acknowledges that the cruise may be booked in a location that is susceptible to severe weather systems, including but not limited to, hurricanes, tropical storms and depressions, and that Carnival reserves the right to alter the ship’s course, ports of call, itinerary, activity and shore excursions to avoid such weather systems and insure the comfort and safety of the Guest and crew."

 

Section 7 Subsection C

"The Vessel shall be entitled to leave and enter ports with or without pilots or tugs, to tow and assist other vessels in any circumstances, to return to or enter any port at the Master’s discretion and for any purpose and to deviate in any direction or for any purpose from the direct or usual course, and to omit or change any or all port calls, arrival or departure times, with or without notice, for any reason whatsoever, including but not limited to safety, security, adverse weather, strikes, tides, hostilities, emergency debarkations of Guests or crew, or late air, sea, car or motor coach departures or arrivals, all such deviations being considered as forming part of and included in the proposed voyage. Carnival shall have no liability for any compensation or other damages in such circumstances."

 

IMPORTANT TERMS AND CONDITIONS FOR NON CRUISE PORTIONS OF VACATION PACKAGES Section 6

"If a change in the itinerary is needed due to factors or conditions beyond CARNIVAL'S control, no refund or credit will be made, however, CARNIVAL will make an effort to provide accommodations and services of a comparable quality and standard as set forth in the brochure. Any such change shall not modify the cancellation provisions in the brochure. No credit will be allowed nor refund given for any services provided in the brochure should any such services not be utilized by Participants."

[sibleygirl]

Any passenger on any vessel, aircraft or other common carrier ought to be confined to their stateroom or seat for any disruptive behavior.

What do people think the cruise line should do, sail into a hurriance?

If there were injuries or damage to property from such an act the complainers would be the first ones to go off the deep end from that too!

 

A captain and a cruise line MUST keep the safety of the passengers and crew as their first priority.

 

And withholding tips from the crew??? What in the world have THEY got to do with it? Punishing them or anyone for the weather, which is an act of God is just one of the most disgusting things I have ever heard of.

 

You habitual complainers need to grow up and get a life. Be glad that you are safe and alive and quit acting like spoiled children who didn't get their way so they run to an attorney.

[odiesam]

I feel for the passengers on this sailing. It is easy to judge others when you haven't been in such a situation. My family and I sailed in 2005 3rd week of July from NJ to Bermuda and had our cruise changed to a Canadian cruise due to a tropical storm.

 

I don't understand after our experience and hearing about this Miracle cruise and there have been others that the cruise ships do not have at a minimum a backup plan as to shipboard activities while being diverted. This was one of our huge complaints. The weather was terrible because the tropical storm ended up following us up to Canada and the cruise director staff just seemed to disappear. If ships are going to take their passengers hard-earned dollars and sail during hurricane season then it would help if the staff had some sort of backup public relations plan in place. Look at the airlines when these storms come in, they immediately allow passengers to change their flights with no penalties and many of the hotels do also. You are stuck with your cruise as I do not believe insurance covers change of itinerary.

 

And hurricane season starts in June which also is when the kids get out of school which happens to be one of the HIGH cost of cruising seasons so this argument that people who book during hurricane season deserve it is off base. Just about the entire Bermuda sailing season also happens to be hurricane season - so those of us with kids in school who can only cruise in summer are kind of stuck.

 

And port charges are based on the specific port visited and vary so if you end up visiting a less expensive port than you originally paid for, you should be given a refund or a credit. We had to fight for it on our sailing and only after days of fighting we received it.

 

In summary I think it is poor pr that the cruiselines do not have some sort of program in place when this occurs.

[AlaskanBorn]

..should just not vacation in some places. Having dealt with visitors to Alaska most of my life, I have found that there are generally two types of folks, those that should come to Alaska on vacation and those that should not.

If you want an iron clad itinerary, consistant weather, or do not want to travel long distances between venues, Alaska is NOT the place to consider taking a vacation to.

 

Sounds to me like taking a cruise in hurricane season is similar. I would have been disappointed not to have gotten to go to certain ports, but just like the fact we don't fly here in Alaska when the weather goes down. I would have understood.

 

Alive and safe is worth more then consistancy in schedule.

[TravelerThom]

You are missing the point entirely. Most of the dissent was because of the lack of communication from Carnival and the Captain and his staff. Carnival did nothing to ease the tension and in fact the Captain made sarcastic and infalmmatory remarks to the passengers. I was horrified at the behavior of the rabble rousers and the "lawyer" but I must admit that the Captain bears some of the blame in this mess. It appears as if the Miracle was the odd man out when it came to alternative ports. Other ships went to Key West and Bermuda but the Miracle either couldn't because of the propulsion problem or chose not --either way the cruise was certainly under a cloud agter that. The atmosphere on the ship was terrible and at times frightening.

I wasn't there so I can't comment on the Miracle. Poor communication on the part of the Cruise Line can certain aggrevate the situation, but whiners certainly do their best to make everyone miserable without achieving anything. Several years ago I was on a nine night to the Carribean out of Baltimore on X Galaxy that missed two ports due to huricanes. The Captain came on the PA and clearly communicated that a huricane would hit the ports at times we were scheduled in, and after discussions with the Huricane Center and with Company HQ we were diverting to other [named] ports. That definitely seemed like the prudent thing to do, since I have NO desire to ride out a huricane no mater how large the boat is. I heard virtually no complaining, and indeed a number of people remarked how well informed we were kept. It amazes me how many airlines and cruise lines don't seem to realize how important honest communication [and humor] can be at defusing situations. [Example from an airplane captain in his third announcement after an hour delay: "I know a lot of you are unhappy back there, and believe me I want to get home for supper too. The mechanics are working as fast as they can, and expect to have things finished in fifteen more minutes. We DO have one engine working, so if you want to take a vote as to whether we should take off without the other engine, let me know what the vote is." It let us know what was going on, gave us a chuckle and also put things into perspective.]

[eagledog50]

There needs to be an additional choice in the poll. No, it is never acceptable to incite any form of mutiny but I do feel the cruise line should compensate passengers for dramatic changes in itenerary such as the Miracle's. At least shipboard credits seem reasonable.

 

The re-routing of a ship to avoid weather will always be the Captain's resposibility and these decisions are not made lightly.