"Cancelling" Natural History Tour

[frugaltravel]

The tan tour busses (TWT) do not allow you to hop on/hop off.

 

Yes and no. They allow you to "hop off" but not "hop back on." Once you leave a tan tour bus, your only option is to return to the park entrance on a green shuttle bus on a space-available basis, which has been confirmed on this site multiple times that it is indeed allowed.

[Glaciers]

Have you ever been on a camper bus? I have NEVER found them full. As I said earlier, they need to check the schedules but basically they need to plan on taking a camper bus back to the entrance. The first Wonder Lake shuttle from the park entrance and the 8am camper bus from Wonder Lake to the entrance meet at Eielson. That would be the ideal scenario.

 

According to their reservations dept and their website, camper busses are only for campers and backpackers. I called reservations and confirmed this. It may be that they will still pick people up as things can be different in the real world but I wouldn’t want to place a bet on it since there are at least two sources that indicate differently and a 4pm train to catch.

 

“Camper buses are designed differently. The back seats have been removed to enable additional space to handle backpacks, camping gear and bicycles. Because fewer seats are available, camper bus seats are reserved for campers and backpackers only.”

 

The options as I see it would be to purchase an Eielson Shuttle Bus pass for $41.45 that departs at 6:30am or a Toklat Shuttle Bus pass for $34.70 that departs at 9:30am.

 

The other would be to purchase a TWT pass for $114.35 that departs at 5am. According to reservations you can only get off these tour buses at the designated rest areas but again, this might be different in the real world.

 

Once you leave a tan tour bus, your only option is to return to the park entrance on a green shuttle bus on a space-available basis, which has been confirmed on this site multiple times that it is indeed allowed.

 

And let it be confirmed again; Yes, any of these options allow you to jump back on a green shuttle bus back to the park entrance on a space available basis.

[Anthin]

We had the NHT as part of our Princess package and after reading comments on this site decided we did not want to do it.We tried to get princess to alow us to change to the TWT they would not budge!!So we booked the shuttle to Eilson and thank goodness we did.There were around 12 people on our bus(so lots of space) the TWT buses we passed were full.Our driver asked if we wanted a commentary..we all said yes and he was wonderful..and duly rewarded.

We had a great trip saw 7 grizzlies including 2 sets of mothers with cubs..caribou Eagles golden and bald,moose and snow hares.It was the best day of our stay and i have to thank people on this forum for their help before we went including lots of helpful tips from Budget Queen.

A.:)

[reefexplorer]

We arrive at Denali Park at 12:30 on 9/11 and leave the next day, are there any tours that will take us deeper in the park available? Or can we just jump onto the buses and do our own thing. We will be staying at Princess Lodge.

 

thanks Linda

[J18ktleo]

We are going next month on a Princess cruisetour and the NHT was included but when we booked it my TA asked if we wanted to change to the TWT. At the time I said no but later called and asked her to do it...was no problem at all and the next day we were upgraded, additional cost was $60pp and we were even able to book it in the afternoon as we go from McKinley to Denali that morning and only have the one night so we're taking the afternoon tour...I'm surprised you wouldn't be able to change:cool:

[frugaltravel]

According to their reservations dept and their website, camper busses are only for campers and backpackers. I called reservations and confirmed this. It may be that they will still pick people up as things can be different in the real world but I wouldn’t want to place a bet on it since there are at least two sources that indicate differently and a 4pm train to catch.

 

“Camper buses are designed differently. The back seats have been removed to enable additional space to handle backpacks, camping gear and bicycles. Because fewer seats are available, camper bus seats are reserved for campers and backpackers only.”

 

That is interesting since in practice, camper buses pick up anyone alongside the road in both directions. Also Skyline Lodge in Kantishna advertises that the camper bus is the only option to get to/from their lodge if you don't fly in. Camper buses have stopped at their lodge while I have been on a camper bus to pick people up, even earlier this year.

 

As you said, YMMV.

[Anthin]

We are going next month on a Princess cruisetour and the NHT was included but when we booked it my TA asked if we wanted to change to the TWT. At the time I said no but later called and asked her to do it...was no problem at all and the next day we were upgraded, additional cost was $60pp and we were even able to book it in the afternoon as we go from McKinley to Denali that morning and only have the one night so we're taking the afternoon tour...I'm surprised you wouldn't be able to change:cool:

We clearly don't get the same treatment over here.I had read of people being able to change in the States ..but beleive me i tried and tried some more and they were not going to budge!!!!In the end we forgot about the cost wasted and booked the shuttle and it worked out best.

A:)

[gaylenhazel]

Here is what we found last week...

 

We were on the Radiance tour #10. It included the NHT and for those who decided not to take it our guide switched them to the TWT for the price difference. She did say you had to take whatever was available. RCI would not do this if you called I tried.

 

We chose to take the 6 a.m. Eilson shuttle as Budget Queen suggested and boy am I glad!!! I saw 24 grizzly bears!!! Lots of other things. The driver did commentary and was just great. He pulled over whenever we yelled stop. The 6 a.m. shuttle has you back at 2 p.m. Plenty of time to catch the 4:00 p.m. train. Plus, we saved money. I paid about $40 each for the shuttle. I asked the driver what the TWT offers that the shuttle didn't... he said a snack and video. We didn't need either. Took our own lunch at sat at the Eilson visitor center on a picnic table enjoying Mt. McKinnley. Was just great.

 

Our friends took the TWT in May and didn't see anything. Might have been the luck of the draw. They also did afternoon and animals are not moving much that time of day.

[J18ktleo]

yeah...I'm kinda afraid that we might not see too much it being later in the day but if we take the NHT it'll be the same time. Not much choice with the schedule we've got so this will have to do!

Anthin...that stinks that they treat you differently...you never know! I guess that's also the downside of being on these boards seeing what others can accomplish and you can't!:cool:

[mtnbikechick73]

Thanks soooo much to all of you for your recommendations about the Natural History Tour, shuttle buses, TWT, etc. I decided to book us on the 6:30 AM Eielson shuttle bus as someone else did and made it back to their 4 PM train to Fairbanks (Royal Caribbean tour). Not sure I'm super thrilled about the school bus part of it, but hey, I wanna see scenery and wildlife!

 

This message board has been so amazing!

[frugaltravel]

According to their reservations dept and their website, camper busses are only for campers and backpackers. I called reservations and confirmed this. It may be that they will still pick people up as things can be different in the real world but I wouldn’t want to place a bet on it since there are at least two sources that indicate differently and a 4pm train to catch.

 

“Camper buses are designed differently. The back seats have been removed to enable additional space to handle backpacks, camping gear and bicycles. Because fewer seats are available, camper bus seats are reserved for campers and backpackers only.”

 

Confirmed by a visit last week - camper buses can only be 'reserved' in advance by those staying inside the park when you want to originate at the park entrance.

 

But anyone with a shuttle bus, camper bus, or Tek pass ticket is allowed to use the camper buses once inside the park. So it is definitely possible to take a shuttle bus from the WAC in the park, then hop on any camper bus traveling in either direction whenever you want.

[Glaciers]

Confirmed by a visit last week - camper buses can only be 'reserved' in advance by those staying inside the park when you want to originate at the park entrance.

 

But anyone with a shuttle bus, camper bus, or Tek pass ticket is allowed to use the camper buses once inside the park. So it is definitely possible to take a shuttle bus from the WAC in the park, then hop on any camper bus traveling in either direction whenever you want.

 

I bet you couldn't wait to get back and share this. This is great news!

[2278]

The Tundra Wilderness Tour was not even listed in the Land Tour Excursion book. However when we got to Denali, we visited the Outfitter Desk and made the request. No problem, paid the extra $100.

 

It was well worth it. We saw grizzlies, carabou, a marmot golden eagles, dall sheep and a very informative guide who will stop when wildlife is spotted.

 

And of course, best to have a avid hunter on board, we had this guy who could spot things 2000 yds out with out brinoculars!

[margaret a]

Hi,

 

We are booked on Princess cruise / tour. I have been on 2 previous cruises, but, never on the land tour part. So, I do know that Denali is one of the highlights of our trip. However, I did not know about the difference of the NHT and the TWT. Our package includes the NHT.

 

Question....from what I have read on this thread, most folks feel that the TWT is far superior than the NHT. Based on that, I may see if Princess will switch us out (for the extra fee).

 

However, my biggest problem is my DH. Not only does he not like "long - all day tours", he had back surgery and it will be about 2 1/2 months by the time we get there. So, a school bus if a concern especially if we take the TWT.

 

1) How bad is the bus ride (comfort wise, back issues, etc)?

2) The NHT is listed on our itineray as from 2 - 7 is the tour about 5 hrs?

3) The TWT say it is 7 - 9 hrs...is that true?

4) I love wildlife -your thoughts on the two tours?

[Jeff in Torrance]

Hi,

 

We are booked on Princess cruise / tour. I have been on 2 previous cruises, but, never on the land tour part. So, I do know that Denali is one of the highlights of our trip. However, I did not know about the difference of the NHT and the TWT. Our package includes the NHT.

 

Question....from what I have read on this thread, most folks feel that the TWT is far superior than the NHT. Based on that, I may see if Princess will switch us out (for the extra fee).

 

However, my biggest problem is my DH. Not only does he not like "long - all day tours", he had back surgery and it will be about 2 1/2 months by the time we get there. So, a school bus if a concern especially if we take the TWT.

 

1) How bad is the bus ride (comfort wise, back issues, etc)?

2) The NHT is listed on our itineray as from 2 - 7 is the tour about 5 hrs?

3) The TWT say it is 7 - 9 hrs...is that true?

4) I love wildlife -your thoughts on the two tours?

 

The buses that both tours use are "school buses," as you might recall from your younger years. There are definitely not fancy tour buses.

As I recall, the NHT lasted about 4-1/2 hours. Having only been on the single NHT tour, I can only say that we saw moose, one grizzly mom with a couple of cubs (at a distance), a lynx, quite a few carabou, a willow ptarmigan (the state bird), several snow shoe hares, and various smaller creatures. We also stopped for a talk by an Athabaskan fellow, and visited a cabin used by the park service during the winter. It was very informative.

[margaret a]

The buses that both tours use are "school buses," as you might recall from your younger years. There are definitely not fancy tour buses.

As I recall, the NHT lasted about 4-1/2 hours. Having only been on the single NHT tour, I can only say that we saw moose, one grizzly mom with a couple of cubs (at a distance), a lynx, quite a few carabou, a willow ptarmigan (the state bird), several snow shoe hares, and various smaller creatures. We also stopped for a talk by an Athabaskan fellow, and visited a cabin used by the park service during the winter. It was very informative.

 

Thanks so much for that info. Although there is never a guarantee on seeing anything, it gives me hope that I may see more than just one lone moose!

 

Since I am not getting any support from the other 9 people traveling with me (including my husband) about switching tours......it will probaly be the NHT for me too......

[LisaH]

I did a Northbound cruisetour. Fairbanks I ran into people who were starting their tour. Two couples I spoke to had the NHT booked. I told them they probably wouldn't see animals and it didn't go very far into the park. The bus driver overheard what I said and told them I was giving them accurate information. One couple was going to try to switch. The other couple didn't want to spend more time in a bus and was very happy with what was booked for them.

 

My point is different people look for different things. Not everyone wants to spend 8+ hours on a converted school bus. Some people may be happy with flightseeing, rafting etc. I had 2 nights in Denali but I arrived on the train and left via motor coach (to FAI) at 8:15a. I really only had a little more then a day. I was happy I took the TWT. I can understand others being happy with the NHT and spending time with a dog kennel tour, flightseeing, rafting, hiking etc.

 

There is nothing wrong with the NHT, it exactly matches the description given by the parks service. It's designed for guests who don't have enough time to take the longer tour. It's designed for guests who want a narrated tour of part of the park but who aren't interested in seeing animals.

 

I agree some people wind up on the NHT because they don't know the difference or because they booked a tour that doesn't give them enough time in Denali. Regulars on this board don't appreciate the fact that different people look for different experiences on vacation.

 

People on tours generally don't have more then a day or two at Denali. Even people not on tours may not have time to spend more then 2 nights at Denali. Different people have different ways they allocate their time.

 

I'm very glad I took the TWT and not the NHT or the shuttle. The video screen made it possible for me to spot the animals with my binoculars. I didn't see the "dots" and people pointing didn't really help. Seeing the animla on the screen, with the surrounding area made it possible for me to use my binoulars. The shuttle may work out great for future visits but I think the commentary, video and slightly better seats suggest the TWD is a better choice for a first trip for many guests.

 

Very well said. We are two of those people who did not want to spend 8 hours on a bus. And we did the 3-day land tour which did not allow for much more than we booked. We had the attitude that any scenery in Alaska would be better than summer in Dallas. It is all relative. We took the NHT and were perfectly and apparently ignorantly happy. Our main goal on our first Alaskan cruise was to have beautiful scenery, see Mt. Mckinley (which we did) and see glaciers (which we did). We were thrilled to see moose and were fine with that.

 

I know the NHT gets bashed on a regular basis but for us it was fine. I think everyone has different expectations and ours were filled 100%.

 

With all that said, if someone has wildlife as their main priority then they would not be happy with the NHT. And for us, next time we will do something that goes further into the park.

 

There IS something for everyone and not everyone was unhappy with the NHT unless they did not know details before they went. Your post above was very well written and accurate at least for us.

 

We are hoping to do the 10-day Sea Princess Alaska cruise in 2011 and when we do that, we will ensure we do some wildlife excursions...

[kittyspite]

Thanks so much for that info. Although there is never a guarantee on seeing anything, it gives me hope that I may see more than just one lone moose!

 

Since I am not getting any support from the other 9 people traveling with me (including my husband) about switching tours......it will probaly be the NHT for me too......

 

Hi Margaret!

 

The first time I was in Alaska, I tool the NHT. I really enjoyed it. We went in the late afternoon about 4:30 and didn't get back until aroun 8pm. This was in Sept of 02. We saw Wolves, Snowshoe Hair, a Grizzly eating berries off in the distance and lots and lots of moose. In fact we stopped to let a harem go across the road. Then daddy moose showed up. He was the biggest thing I have ever seen in my life! Huge is a small word to use. He took exception to the buss and charged us. We took off as fast as we could and he chased us about a mile. At one point we though he was going to hit the bus. What an adventure that was. So you never know what you are going to see and what is going to happen. We were also told that we were the only ones to see any wildlife that day.

 

Yes it is a school bus, but it was not uncomfortable. This time we are booked on TWT. This is a 7-9 hour tour depending on the weather. The NHT only goes to mile 17 and really doesn't get into the park. TWT goes to mile 53 I believe and into the park. The chances of seeing wildlife are greater, however, you are on the wildlife schedule, they are not on yours. We leave at 7am and get back around 3 or 4pm. I am looking forward to this tour. We will be doing this on the 5th of September.

 

I think you will enjoy what ever you decide.

 

Smiles.......Kitty (Nan)

[LisaH]

Hi Margaret!

 

The first time I was in Alaska, I tool the NHT. I really enjoyed it. We went in the late afternoon about 4:30 and didn't get back until aroun 8pm. This was in Sept of 02. We saw Wolves, Snowshoe Hair, a Grizzly eating berries off in the distance and lots and lots of moose. In fact we stopped to let a harem go across the road. Then daddy moose showed up. He was the biggest thing I have ever seen in my life! Huge is a small word to use. He took exception to the buss and charged us. We took off as fast as we could and he chased us about a mile. At one point we though he was going to hit the bus. What an adventure that was. So you never know what you are going to see and what is going to happen. We were also told that we were the only ones to see any wildlife that day.

 

Yes it is a school bus, but it was not uncomfortable. This time we are booked on TWT. This is a 7-9 hour tour depending on the weather. The NHT only goes to mile 17 and really doesn't get into the park. TWT goes to mile 53 I believe and into the park. The chances of seeing wildlife are greater, however, you are on the wildlife schedule, they are not on yours. We leave at 7am and get back around 3 or 4pm. I am looking forward to this tour. We will be doing this on the 5th of September.

 

I think you will enjoy what ever you decide.

 

Smiles.......Kitty (Nan)

 

I agree with above on comfort of the school bus on the NHT. It seems the seats were a bit more padded (as I recall). I also have a bad back and the 4-5 hours did not bother it. My main concern were bathroom stops and we had two. I will say it again, a day in Denali is better than a day in Dallas in the summer no matter which tour you take. :)

[frugaltravel]

I understand that some people just don't want to be on a bus for 6-8 hours. But I don't understand why they pay $$ for the Natural History Tour when they can duplicate the same itinerary for free -

 

free Savage River Loop shuttle bus

get off at the Savage cabins (interpretive signs and a short path)

get off at Savage River if desired or just stay on the bus

get off at the Wilderness Access Center to view the 20 minute free film, which is included on the NHT

 

I guess I am too much of a budget traveler to pay +-$50 for something I could do totally on my own, with ease, for free.

[Jeff in Torrance]

I understand that some people just don't want to be on a bus for 6-8 hours. But I don't understand why they pay $$ for the Natural History Tour when they can duplicate the same itinerary for free -

 

free Savage River Loop shuttle bus

get off at the Savage cabins (interpretive signs and a short path)

get off at Savage River if desired or just stay on the bus

get off at the Wilderness Access Center to view the 20 minute free film, which is included on the NHT

 

I guess I am too much of a budget traveler to pay +-$50 for something I could do totally on my own, with ease, for free.

In our case the NHT was included in the cruise/tour that we signed up for. We had never been to Denali before; and, didn't really have any idea of what to see until we got there. Since we spent three days on the train (Whittier to Fairbanks) we saw plenty of Alaska by the time our trip was over; and, were lucky to have great views of McKinley every day that we were there. We got our trip at a very good price, so were very happy. And, were upgraded on the cruise from "interior" to balcony room. We're usually about the thriftiest passengers on the boat, never signing up for extra excursions/visiting the casino/etc. Next time, maybe we'll take the shuttle bus.

[margaret a]

Very well said. We are two of those people who did not want to spend 8 hours on a bus. And we did the 3-day land tour which did not allow for much more than we booked. We had the attitude that any scenery in Alaska would be better than summer in Dallas. It is all relative. We took the NHT and were perfectly and apparently ignorantly happy. Our main goal on our first Alaskan cruise was to have beautiful scenery, see Mt. Mckinley (which we did) and see glaciers (which we did). We were thrilled to see moose and were fine with that.

 

I know the NHT gets bashed on a regular basis but for us it was fine. I think everyone has different expectations and ours were filled 100%.

 

With all that said, if someone has wildlife as their main priority then they would not be happy with the NHT. And for us, next time we will do something that goes further into the park.

 

There IS something for everyone and not everyone was unhappy with the NHT unless they did not know details before they went. Your post above was very well written and accurate at least for us.

 

We are hoping to do the 10-day Sea Princess Alaska cruise in 2011 and when we do that, we will ensure we do some wildlife excursions...

 

Hi Lisa,

 

Thanks for your input!

 

PS - I lived in Plano for 15 years from 1988 - 2003. JCPenney.......

We lived in Old Shepard Place. Where are you located?

[margaret a]

Hi Margaret!

 

The first time I was in Alaska, I tool the NHT. I really enjoyed it. We went in the late afternoon about 4:30 and didn't get back until aroun 8pm. This was in Sept of 02. We saw Wolves, Snowshoe Hair, a Grizzly eating berries off in the distance and lots and lots of moose. In fact we stopped to let a harem go across the road. Then daddy moose showed up. He was the biggest thing I have ever seen in my life! Huge is a small word to use. He took exception to the buss and charged us. We took off as fast as we could and he chased us about a mile. At one point we though he was going to hit the bus. What an adventure that was. So you never know what you are going to see and what is going to happen. We were also told that we were the only ones to see any wildlife that day.

 

Yes it is a school bus, but it was not uncomfortable. This time we are booked on TWT. This is a 7-9 hour tour depending on the weather. The NHT only goes to mile 17 and really doesn't get into the park. TWT goes to mile 53 I believe and into the park. The chances of seeing wildlife are greater, however, you are on the wildlife schedule, they are not on yours. We leave at 7am and get back around 3 or 4pm. I am looking forward to this tour. We will be doing this on the 5th of September.

 

I think you will enjoy what ever you decide.

 

Smiles.......Kitty (Nan)

 

 

Hi Kitty!

 

Thanks - See you on the ship!

[margaret a]

Jeff and Frugaltravel....

 

Thanks!!!!

[kittyspite]

Hi Kitty!

 

Thanks - See you on the ship!

 

Yes we will. Don't forget your Mardi Gras Beads. When are you going to be in Denali?

 

Smiles.......Kitty (Nan)