Norwegian Cruise Line Bans Smoking on Balconies

[quote name='Out to sea!'] Seems to me you just want to aim barbs at a particular person instead of even trying to have a conversation and rebut or challenge the points brought up by people.[/quote]Unfortunately, there a few of these on both sides.

[quote name='Sailor_Sally']Most of the major cruise lines have made this change and none of them have loosened their rules so unfortunately smokers deal with it and stop beating a dead horse . As for compromise I compromised by by not booking a balcony when smoking was still allowed and avoiding all smoking areas now I can happily book a balcony again.[/QUOTE]

I believe you are incorrect. From what I read on the CCL board thy loosened their e-cig rules. I did not see the original rules so I do not know exactly to what extent. Maybe someone here can elaborate.

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[quote name='sjbdtz']That's only because many of the non-smoker gamblers avoid the ship's casino because of the smoke.





Hmmm...in 1776 my forefather had just celebrated the 127th anniversary of our family's emigration from France to Canada - in 1646.

What was your forefather doing in 1776?



Stephen


.[/QUOTE]

You may not understand if you are not from the US. Not up to teaching history here.

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[quote name='sjbdtz']That's only because many of the non-smoker gamblers avoid the ship's casino because of the smoke.[/quote]

And of course you have some sort of poll or data to prove or at least give some sort of credibility to this assumption? :rolleyes:



[quote name='sjbdtz']Hmmm...in 1776 my forefather had just celebrated the 127th anniversary of our family's emigration from France to Canada - in 1646.

What was your forefather doing in 1776?

Stephen


.[/QUOTE]

Mine was busy signing the Declaration of Independence. :)

[quote name='NLH Arizona']Unfortunately, there a few of these on both sides.[/QUOTE]

While that particular post was not directed towards you, you are correct.

Carnival smoking policy: [I]Effective on voyages departing October 9, 2014, or thereafter, all staterooms and suite accommodations are an entirely smoke free environment, including the outside balcony. [/I]
[I][B]Cigarette and E-cigarette smoking[/B] will continue to be allowed in designated exterior open deck areas, as well as in our night club, and in certain areas within the casino (for playing guests) and casino bar. [/I]
[I][B]Cigar and pipe smoking[/B] will continue to be allowed in designated exterior open deck areas only. [/I]
[I][B]Note:[/B] Guests who smoke in their staterooms or on their balconies will be assessed a $250 cleaning and refreshing fee on their Sail & Sign account. Information on this fee is included in Carnival's cruise ticket contract. Guest agrees to strictly comply with Carnival’s non-smoking policy.[/I]

I am surprised at what seems like the US focused comments on non-smoking being the norm... certainly in much of the US.. perhaps in Canada. I have not seen that in Mexico, Italy, Greece or Turkey. In fact, when my hubby left the restaurant (walled in private patio area) to go outside to have a smoke, the owner went and retreived him and [I]insisted [/I]he come back in with his cig to sit at the table with the rest of us.

In Greece and Italy, all hubby did was put his pack on the table and within a couple of minutes an ashtray would appear.

I wonder if the most vocal anti-smoking folks would forego all those wonderful places? I would hope not as they were incredible... - but it sure sounds like it...

[quote name='cruznbelle']I am surprised at what seems like the US focused comments on non-smoking being the norm... certainly in much of the US.. perhaps in Canada. I have not seen that in Mexico, Italy, Greece or Turkey. In fact, when my hubby left the restaurant (walled in private patio area) to go outside to have a smoke, the owner went and retreived him and [I]insisted [/I]he come back in with his cig to sit at the table with the rest of us.

In Greece and Italy, all hubby did was put his pack on the table and within a couple of minutes an ashtray would appear.

I wonder if the most vocal anti-smoking folks would forego all those wonderful places? I would hope not as they were incredible... - but it sure sounds like it...[/quote]
Not sure when you were there, but there has been a lot of changes. I was there in 2011 and no one smoked in any of the restaurants I ate in.

Greece: [I]Effective from 1 September 2010, this law prohibits smoking and consumption of tobacco products by other means, in all work-places, transport stations, taxis and passenger ships (in trains, buses and airplanes smoking is already prohibited), as well as in all enclosed public places including restaurants, night clubs, etc., without any exception. Casinos and bars bigger than 300 m2 were given eight months to apply the law.[/I]

Italy: [I]Italy was the fourth country in the world to enact a nationwide smoke-free law. Since 10 January 2005 it is forbidden to smoke in all public indoor spaces, including bars, cafés, restaurants and discos. However, special smoking rooms are allowed. In such areas food can be served, but they are subjected to strict conditions: they need to be separately ventilated, with high air replacement rates; their air pressure must constantly be lower than the pressure in the surrounding rooms; they must be equipped with automatic sliding doors to prevent smoke from spreading to tobacco-free areas; they may occupy at most 50% of the establishment. Only 1% of all public establishments have opted for setting up a smoking room. Smoking is also forbidden in all enclosed workplaces – this includes also trains and underground stations. It is, indeed, permitted to smoke outdoors, which means that since Italy has sunny weather more than half of the year, people can still smoke at restaurants and bars as long as they sit on the outside tables and people still smoke there.[/I] Edited August 3, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[quote name='sjbdtz']That's only because many of the non-smoker gamblers avoid the ship's casino because of the smoke.

[/QUOTE]

Like me. On Celebrity I can now use the casino. And I do. I used to usually avoid balconies. My last NCL cruise I booked an outside because of their previous policy (I did end up with a balcony because NCL upgraded me). Now I will book balconies when I book on NCL. I have four cruises booked currently, three for this year and one for next year. All with balconies on ships that currently ban smoking on balconies because of those ships no smoking on balconies policy. When NCL bans smoking in the casino, I will use the casino when I sail with NCL.

[quote name='NLH Arizona']Not sure when you were there, but there has been a lot of changes. I was there in 2011 and no one smoked in any of the restaurants I ate in.

Greece: [I]Effective from 1 September 2010, this law prohibits smoking and consumption of tobacco products by other means, in all work-places, transport stations, taxis and passenger ships (in trains, buses and airplanes smoking is already prohibited), as well as in all enclosed public places including restaurants, night clubs, etc., without any exception. Casinos and bars bigger than 300 m2 were given eight months to apply the law.[/I]

Italy: [I]Italy was the fourth country in the world to enact a nationwide smoke-free law. Since 10 January 2005 it is forbidden to smoke in all public indoor spaces, including bars, cafés, restaurants and discos. However, special smoking rooms are allowed. In such areas food can be served, but they are subjected to strict conditions: they need to be separately ventilated, with high air replacement rates; their air pressure must constantly be lower than the pressure in the surrounding rooms; they must be equipped with automatic sliding doors to prevent smoke from spreading to tobacco-free areas; they may occupy at most 50% of the establishment. Only 1% of all public establishments have opted for setting up a smoking room. Smoking is also forbidden in all enclosed workplaces – this includes also trains and underground stations. It is, indeed, permitted to smoke outdoors, which means that since Italy has sunny weather more than half of the year, people can still smoke at restaurants and bars as long as they sit on the outside tables and people still smoke there.[/I][/QUOTE]

We were in Italy last year and the owner let us smoke in the restaurant. In Spain they let us smoke in the restaurant.
Despite all the "smoking laws", the Southern Europeans take it with a pinch of salt. :D

[quote name='NLH Arizona']Not sure when you were there, but there has been a lot of changes. I was there in 2011 and no one smoked in any of the restaurants I ate in.

Greece: [I]Effective from 1 September 2010, this law prohibits smoking and consumption of tobacco products by other means, in all work-places, transport stations, taxis and passenger ships (in trains, buses and airplanes smoking is already prohibited), as well as in all enclosed public places including restaurants, night clubs, etc., without any exception. Casinos and bars bigger than 300 m2 were given eight months to apply the law.[/I]

Italy: [I]Italy was the fourth country in the world to enact a nationwide smoke-free law. Since 10 January 2005 it is forbidden to smoke in all public indoor spaces, including bars, cafés, restaurants and discos. However, special smoking rooms are allowed. In such areas food can be served, but they are subjected to strict conditions: they need to be separately ventilated, with high air replacement rates; their air pressure must constantly be lower than the pressure in the surrounding rooms; they must be equipped with automatic sliding doors to prevent smoke from spreading to tobacco-free areas; they may occupy at most 50% of the establishment. Only 1% of all public establishments have opted for setting up a smoking room. Smoking is also forbidden in all enclosed workplaces – this includes also trains and underground stations. It is, indeed, permitted to smoke outdoors, which means that since Italy has sunny weather more than half of the year, people can still smoke at restaurants and bars as long as they sit on the outside tables and people still smoke there.[/I][/QUOTE]

Last time I was in Greece the smoking ban was not enforced. They have since enacted a stricter law. I will be in Greece in October and see. Been to Italy last year and three years ago and none were smoking in the restaurants. Also been to Ireland and the smoking ban is enforced there. A eastern European woman lit up in one of the pubs I was in and the management made her stop. Turkey, I only ate at one restaurant but none were smoking. Edited August 3, 2014 by Charles4515

[quote name='Cashew14']We were in Italy last year and the owner let us smoke in the restaurant. In Spain they let us smoke in the restaurant.
Despite all the "smoking laws", the Southern Europeans take it with a pinch of salt. :D[/QUOTE]

I was in Spain last year and did not see anyone violating their restaurant smoking ban. It is a shame you decided to violate their law in Spain and Italy. Edited August 3, 2014 by Charles4515

[quote name='Charles4515']I was in Spain last year and did not see anyone violating their restaurant smoking ban.[/QUOTE]

Well, we were allowed, what can I say. :rolleyes:

[quote name='Cashew14']Well, we were allowed, what can I say. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

You were violating their law. When I travel I abide by the local laws.

It's unfortunate that so many people are addicted to cigarette smoking but the nicotine is highly toxic and addictive. That said, as a former smoker myself I prefer to have my air smoke free. I know there are other toxins in the atmosphere to which I have no choice about exposure. I've become very anti smoking, though, since seeing how smoking related lung cancer killed my beloved brother just eleven months after his diagnosis. I feel great sympathy for the smokers' addiction and pray they have physicians who regularly monitor their health with lung scans and other diagnostic tools. This is particularly true for those smokers who have people in their lives who they love and who love them.

I have been following this thread with interest and I have seen a lot of talk about following the rules and policies and I am really curious what NCL along with the other cruise lines are going to do in 2016 when the rules and regulations change in Europe

In 2016 e-cigs will no longer be the same as normal cigarettes (consumer product) but will be classified as a medication and regulated as such

Here is a link to some information from ASH (action on smoking and health)
[url]http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_897.pdf[/url]

I can just see the newspapers now

"HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATED"
"MR X a former smoker was forced by (insert cruiseline) to take his prescribed medication only in the smoking areas of the ship"

For those of you who do not think this applies to US companies and foreign flagged ships in Europe are obviously not aware of the laws passed in the EU after the Costa Concordia tragedy

Outside of the EU jurisdiction not to sure which rules would apply maybe article 25 of the UN "Declaration of Human Rights"

It will be curious to see how this all plays out

[quote name='nomad098']I have been following this thread with interest and I have seen a lot of talk about following the rules and policies and I am really curious what NCL along with the other cruise lines are going to do in 2016 when the rules and regulations change in Europe



In 2016 e-cigs will no longer be the same as normal cigarettes (consumer product) but will be classified as a medication and regulated as such



Here is a link to some information from ASH (action on smoking and health)

[url]http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_897.pdf[/url]



I can just see the newspapers now



"HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATED"

"MR X a former smoker was forced by (insert cruiseline) to take his prescribed medication only in the smoking areas of the ship"



For those of you who do not think this applies to US companies and foreign flagged ships in Europe are obviously not aware of the laws passed in the EU after the Costa Concordia tragedy



Outside of the EU jurisdiction not to sure which rules would apply maybe article 25 of the UN "Declaration of Human Rights"



It will be curious to see how this all plays out[/QUOTE]


Nice try but that is not the actual regulation that the EU passed earlier this year. They did not classify them as medicines.

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/business/european-union-approves-tough-rules-on-electronic-cigarettes.html[/url]

[quote name='Cashew14']We were in Italy last year and the owner let us smoke in the restaurant. In Spain they let us smoke in the restaurant.
Despite all the "smoking laws", the Southern Europeans take it with a pinch of salt. :D[/quote]Obviously, we went to different restaurants, because I had a totally different experience. I'm glad you were able to smoke.

[quote name='Charles4515']Nice try but that is not the actual regulation that the EU passed earlier this year. They did not classify them as medicines.

[url]http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/business/european-union-approves-tough-rules-on-electronic-cigarettes.html[/url][/QUOTE]

As an e-cig user, first I must comment that as per the pictures show, how can they be banned anywhere based on the thought that they look like real cigarettes which is NCL's only reason for restricting per their policy. Most non-smokers, incljding those complaining on CC have probably never seen or at least noticed a real e-cig before.

I have no problem whatsoever with the proposed laws in Europe. Really no different than many areas here in the US. To go a step further if they classified them as medication then insurance would pay for them. Looks like a win-win to me.

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[quote name='mein18']As an e-cig user, first I must comment that as per the pictures show, how can they be banned anywhere based on the thought that they look like real cigarettes which is NCL's only reason for restricting per their policy. Most non-smokers, incljding those complaining on CC have probably never seen or at least noticed a real e-cig before.

I have no problem whatsoever with the proposed laws in Europe. Really no different than many areas here in the US. To go a step further if they classified them as medication then insurance would pay for them. Looks like a win-win to me.

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Some look like real cigarettes. Newer ones look like the picture and come with more potent doses. I don't want to be around anyone using what is pictured with whatever it is coming out of their mouth. I have seen one like in the picture. I have a coworker who uses one like that. He also has one that looks like a cigar. Edited August 3, 2014 by Charles4515

I think the problem is that everyone is giving contradictory information. One says it will be considered a medicine in EU and another refutes it and says it is not. One says it is safe, while another says there is no scientific proof that it is safe. One says they don't look like real cigarettes and another says they do. One says it is a way to help quit smoking and another says there is no proof that it helps in quitting smoking. One says people on Cruise Critic have never noticed an e-cigarette, while another has posted their experience. If the scientific world is like us here, no wonder many countires have not made a decision as to how to regulate e-cigarettes. Who are we to believe. Should we believe the research from the e-cigarette companies or companies they hire to do their research or should be believe the anti-e-cigarette forces and the companies they hire to do the research?

We can all pontificate all we want on here, but until NCL changes their newly adopted policy, e-cigarettes can only be smoked in smoking areas. If you agree with the new policy, let your feelings be heard. If you disagree with the new policy, let your feelings be heard. Edited August 3, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[quote name='nomad098']I have been following this thread with interest and I have seen a lot of talk about following the rules and policies and I am really curious what NCL along with the other cruise lines are going to do in 2016 when the rules and regulations change in Europe

In 2016 e-cigs will no longer be the same as normal cigarettes (consumer product) but will be classified as a medication and regulated as such

Here is a link to some information from ASH (action on smoking and health)
[url]http://www.ash.org.uk/files/documents/ASH_897.pdf[/url]

I can just see the newspapers now

"HUMAN RIGHTS VIOLATED"
"MR X a former smoker was forced by (insert cruiseline) to take his prescribed medication only in the smoking areas of the ship"

For those of you who do not think this applies to US companies and foreign flagged ships in Europe are obviously not aware of the laws passed in the EU after the Costa Concordia tragedy

Outside of the EU jurisdiction not to sure which rules would apply maybe article 25 of the UN "Declaration of Human Rights"

It will be curious to see how this all plays out[/QUOTE]

However, if they do get classified as a medication, then in the US they would have to be approved by the FDA and also access would be restricted. Similar to the other smoking related medications such as nicotine gum and patches.

That would mean far less user volumes. Fewer non-smokers starting with e-cigs. In general decreasing numbers of e-cig users, not dramatically increasing numbers, including previously non-smokers.

[quote name='NLH Arizona']Not sure when you were there, but there has been a lot of changes. I was there in 2011 and no one smoked in any of the restaurants I ate in.

Greece: [I]Effective from 1 September 2010, this law prohibits smoking and consumption of tobacco products by other means, in all work-places, transport stations, taxis and passenger ships (in trains, buses and airplanes smoking is already prohibited), as well as in all enclosed public places including restaurants, night clubs, etc., without any exception. Casinos and bars bigger than 300 m2 were given eight months to apply the law.[/I]

Italy: [I]Italy was the fourth country in the world to enact a nationwide smoke-free law. Since 10 January 2005 it is forbidden to smoke in all public indoor spaces, including bars, cafés, restaurants and discos. However, special smoking rooms are allowed. In such areas food can be served, but they are subjected to strict conditions: they need to be separately ventilated, with high air replacement rates; their air pressure must constantly be lower than the pressure in the surrounding rooms; they must be equipped with automatic sliding doors to prevent smoke from spreading to tobacco-free areas; they may occupy at most 50% of the establishment. Only 1% of all public establishments have opted for setting up a smoking room. Smoking is also forbidden in all enclosed workplaces – this includes also trains and underground stations. It is, indeed, permitted to smoke outdoors, which means that since Italy has sunny weather more than half of the year, people can still smoke at restaurants and bars as long as they sit on the outside tables and people still smoke there.[/I][/QUOTE]


Well... we were there in May - we did Venice,Napflion,Mykonos, Rhodes, Santorini, Athens, Naples, Sorrento, Rome, Kusadasi - no clue the regs... only know where ever we went - it was NOT a problem - no one said anything and were happy to accomodate... yep - other than Turkey and Rome - we ate outside because the weather was awesome - both inside places insisted hubby smoke at the table which actually felt strange... and he wouldn't do it other than Turkey - just because it obviously distressed the owner that he might not be comfortable. No body seemed to give a flip - I think folks where simply happy to see us spending money - and we enjoyed doing so... we almost always asked for the owner/chef to do whatever he/she felt we'd enjoy... we loved to ask about their town, what they would recommend we eat to experience the venue and we sat, ate copious amounts of simply incredible fresh food... I think I may have won over my picky husband who as always said why go to Europe for twice the cost for half the amenities... and no it wasn't just the smoking aspect - it was a totally wonderful relaxing time - after a while - you get over the sticker shock and live to enjoy.

[quote name='RDC1']However, if they do get classified as a medication, then in the US they would have to be approved by the FDA and also access would be restricted. Similar to the other smoking related medications such as nicotine gum and patches.

That would mean far less user volumes. Fewer non-smokers starting with e-cigs. In general decreasing numbers of e-cig users, not dramatically increasing numbers, including previously non-smokers.[/QUOTE]

I agree

Part of the reason there was not out right agreement in the EU to make all e-cigs medicines was the influence of the tobacco industry who are now getting into the e-cig business and would not want to see numbers dropping

[quote name='nomad098']


[B]The revised Directive requires

electronic cigarettes to be regulated either as medicinal products, if they make a

medicinal claim, while those that do not make a claim will not be regulated as

medicines.[/B][/QUOTE]


Making a medicinal claim wouldn't be too smart would it? Medicines can be banned or highly restricted.