steamboats

The inconsistency... steamboats

There are no real mandatory service charges in the EU countries. Spain doesn´t have any. In Italy you may count the "Coperto" as a mandatory service charge but that also covers bread, placemat, tablecloth, silverware ... (and is a part of the invoice items and therefore charged VAT). But it´s up to the restaurant if they charge a Coperto and how much (something between 1.50 and 5 Euro - has to be written in the menu). In Croatia some restaurants have a fixed service charge but also there it´s not mandatory for all restaurants. steamboats

But you know it better than me... When I do have a drink package I don't pay an amount for a single drink - period! I paid for the package. And BTW all alcohol onboard is tax free (same on planes). Of course the cruise line has to pay for the ingrediences of the drink but that's their calculation they have to do for the drink package. I don't buy the bottle... You don't want to understand what is target of the VAT - a value / purchase. And the passenger has purchased the package. That's the taxable purchase but not the order of a single drink. steamboats

Once again, they don´t need to count it into the package price as they don´t have to pay it for a single drink. That´s what you don´t want to get. A value added tax can be only added to a value. For a value money has to change hands. But no money does change hands when you order a drink with your package. The money changed hands when you bought the package (or Free at Sea). Then you had to pay a VAT in case that purchase was made in Europe. What´s even more strange that they charge a VAT on the Service Charge - that´s an automated gratuity. That´s not part of the taxed value at all (even when you paid for the drink). The gratuity is part of the income of the waiter and therefore the waiter has to pay income tax on this amount... And once again, I am German and I live in Germany and I´m pretty sure that I do know our tax system pretty well ;-). steamboats

Not that the beverage package of NCL ist any cheaper per day when you buy it separately 🤦 without free at sea. And if you really have to pay the VAT for each drink you can't really count it into the price of the package. And for my Diamond (Crown & Anchor) drinks I don't pay anything at all. And of course when you buy the beverage package onboard in Europe they add the VAT based on the price of the package. What you don't get is that with a zero pay for a single drink there is no value you can add a tax. And BTW it's not just RCI but all other cruise lines which don't add a VAT to a single drink with a package. steamboats

Sorry, you can´t tender from Trieste to Venice. It´s a two hour bus ride. A tender boat wouldn´t arrive in Venice the same day. steamboats

RCI doesn´t charge the VAT on drinks you order with a package. RCI does charge it when you pay for each single drink. In France it´s the 20% VAT for alcoholic beverages and the 10% VAT on the 20% service charge. It´s not a VAT on the VAT. steamboats

Food and beverages have a reduced VAT rate in Spain and it´s 10%. The regular rate is 20%. France has the regular rate of 20% for alcoholic beverages. Other beverages have a reduced rate. VAT rates vary from country to country. steamboats

@BunnyHutt Usually food and drinks are not eligable for a tax refund. You can buy a leather jacket or a bag and get a refund. steamboats

@BunnyHutt when you purchase something onsite or online in Europe you definitely pay the VAT rate of the country of purchase. It's just that the VAT ist already included in the price tag. When I buy something online in the US the local sales tax is added (because I don't have an US address the sales tax of the point of sale is added like I bought it onsite). You can buy a bottle of wine in Italy and take it back home to the US but you pay the Italien VAT when you buy the bottle. It doesn't matter where and when you consume it. When you check the receipt it will show the VAT but the amount you pay is the amount shown on the price tag. steamboats

The Moselle river is part of the Rhine/Main/Danube river system 😉 and they have the same problems there. I found a nice one on the Swiss Ruby from Saarbrücken to Stuttgart (or vice versa). Some rivers which aren´t that much in the focus of a river cruiser. Or from Bremen to Saarbrücken... steamboats

@BunnyHutt in Europe we tax at the time of purchase and the tax rate is the one of the seller. So when I buy something in Spain online I do pay the Spanish VAT rate (which is 21%, reduced 10%) although I live in Germany (where the rate is 19%, reduced 7%). But the price tag does include the VAT by law. So the rate doesn't matter me. I may see it on the invoice that I paid 20% VAT but the price is still 49 Euro as written on the price tag. steamboats

I´d say none... Rhine, Main, Danube rivers, Seine & Rhone/Saone rivers, Elbe river, Po river all have seasonal problems. I hardly hear anything about the Duoro river in Portugal. But it´s all weather related and therefore there is no guarantee when you are cruising on a river that everything goes as planned. But anyway most of the cruises do go as planned. Those are the ones we are not talking about ;-). steamboats

Definitely don´t drive on your own with a rented car unless you want to block the whole traffic there!! steamboats

But this is an EU VAT and not a US tax... And I was talking about how the VAT is handled in Europe. Your sales tax is handled different that EU VAT. When it comes to the EU VAT the purchase is the purchase of the package which is sold via Miami. So EU is not interested in this. By the time you consume a specific drink you are in EU but the price of the drink is 0 as you don´t pay anything when you consume the drink (you have prepaid the package) and 10% of 0 is still 0. At the moment of consumption you don´t buy anything as you have prepaid your drinks by buying the package. BTW, when you buy a package onboard an RCI ship in Barcelona when embarking you have to pay the 10% VAT on the price of the package. With RCI/Celebrity you don´t pay any VAT on a single drink when you have a package (of course you pay when you don´t have a package). So the way NCL is handling this VAT you could be taxed twice - for buying the package onboard and for every single drink you order. steamboats

Yes, usually you have to pay it on the spot. steamboats

Your DL might be o.k. at the port security (which is no governmental authority but a private security companay) for identification but your only legal document for traveling within Europe is your passport. Even the European DLs are no legal document for identification within Europe. The only legal documents for traveling in Europe are passports and for Europeans an ID card issued by the country. I quote @euro cruiser from the other thread: "Italian law requires everyone to carry a national ID at all times. The only national ID for Americans is a passport. Here is the relevant part of the law, translated by google: "3. The foreigner who, at the request of the officers and agents of public safety, does not comply, without justified reason, to the order to produce the passport or other document of identification and residence permit or other document certifying regular presence in the territory of the State is punished with imprisonment of up to one year and a fine of up to 2,000 euros." The full law can be read here: DECRETO LEGISLATIVO 25 luglio 1998, n. 286 - Normattiva The quote above is from Article 6, paragraph 3." steamboats

Definitely! steamboats

I´d say no as this is not a legal document for traveling to the EU. It does not show your Schengen entry stamp (Visa Waiver Program). So just with the passport card you can´t prof that you are not an illegal alien. steamboats

Usually with a cruise starting out of a Spanish port and with EU ports only the VAT applies for the whole cruise and not just within the Spanish ports. Just to get some facts straight: - it´s no Spanish tax but an EU tax and it applies for all EU countries (it´s just the rate which is up to the country - 10% reduced rate in Spain and 21% regular rate - you pay that extra in all shops onboard), it´s just that Spain enforced this. But I also had notes that the Italian VAT will be added to any purchase. - all other cruise lines do have to pay that tax too... All more European based lines (MSC, Costa, AIDA TUI Cruise) do include the tax in the price of the drink, while the US based lines (NCL, RCI, Celebrity...) add it to the price of the drink - that´s just how it is handled usually in those areas of the world. We all pay a VAT in Europe but our laws require it to be included in the price on the price tag. - it´s just NCL which is charging the 10% to every single drink of a package... RCI/Celebrity don´t do that. And I´d say that this (RCI/Celebrity) it totally correct regarding the tax laws. The VAT applies to the price of the package. That´s what the passenger has purchased. When you buy the package online you usually buy it outside of the EU (so maybe Maimi). Therefore the tax law of the country of purchase comes in (which would be US). That should be the same for an included package or Free at Sea package. You pay the package (included) with the cruise fare or you buy the Free at Sea package (and when you buy it with the cruise you didn´t buy it within the EU). So it´s only NCL interpreting the EU tax laws like this - meaning they have to add the 10% to each drink which is ordered with a package. steamboats

Being from the US the only legal document is your passport. steamboats

See post #5 in this thread 😉! steamboats

Ready the other thread... Italy is doing random checks and the fine when you don't carry a legal document is hefty. steamboats

As a European I do have my German ID card which is valid for travel within the EU. So for me there´s no need to carry my passport. But in Italy the law requires you to have a legal ID with you. And for non EU citizens this is the passport which also holds the Schengen stamp to proof that you are legally within the Schengen area. A DL is worthless within Europe and will only help you to get through the security to board the ship but not in a police control. steamboats

The US DL is no valid photo ID in Europe. There´s a current discussion on the Italy board that the Italian police is doing random checks in trains and near tourist attractions. For those random checks they want to see your passport (with your Schengen stamp) as a proof that you are no illegal alien. steamboats