K.T.B.

23 minutes ago, NMTraveller said:

What do you call the group of people who are against taking vaccines?

Idiots.

Well I got into a rather strong disagreement about vaccines being required or not with a friend.  Finally the person I was having this heated discussion with brought up "religious reasons" as to why they can't/won't get vaccinated.  Now I know they're NOT religious in any way, shape, or form, but me being me and not being one to sit idly by while allowing such a statement slide past, I found this and sent it to him:

https://www.vumc.org/health-wellness/news-resource-articles/immunizations-and-religion

So I then asked him what his religion was....  Got nada.  He got called out on his BS and I've gotten silence since.  

Suffice it to say, for those whose religion "prevents" them from being vaccinated, these will people will not be cruising any way.  Now I do NOT want this to devolve into a discussion about religion, but I'm tired of hearing all the excuses people are using to not get vaccinated.  Only 2 friends of mine have legitimate reasons for not wanting to get vaccinated and that's because they're unsure of its safety.   That's perfectly understandable. Regardless, they're going to hold off from cruising for awhile and do other vacations.  They're willing to wait out through 2022 before looking to cruise.

I'm still hoping that cruise lines make it a requirement for all its crew and passengers to be vaccinated.  Zero exceptions, including children.  Otherwise, they risk the chance of a major catastrophe in having an outbreak on board and that might ultimately destroy cruising.

On 4/9/2021 at 6:31 PM, KWW88 said:

https://www.cruisecritic.com/news/6025/

Well, Secretary of Transportation has a response to that:

https://news.yahoo.com/cruise-ships-could-resume-sailing-by-mid-summer-buttigieg-says-190728426.html

The same people doing this are probably the same people who have an "emotional support" snake.

40 minutes ago, Oville said:

Just curious, why do some of you have to weigh in on your political leanings on a thread like this while at the same time insult those who don’t agree?

Unfortunately, it is a political move by the governor.  However, regardless of what side of the aisle he's on (completely opposite of mine, by the way), I agree with what he's attempting to do.  He's trying to force the CDC to do something to actually help.  BUT his idiotic insistence on no "vaccine passport" will work against him and this lawsuit.  He's going to have to acquiesce if he wants a "win" here for Florida and cruising.  Also, the cruise lines ail need to do something as well, not just leave it up to the CDC.  They need to prove they're ready and that it's the CDC that's holding them back.

2 hours ago, Daniel A said:

I am under the impression that vaccines permitted under an Emergency Use Authorization cannot be mandated by the government.  At this point, CDC is encouraging it but it is up to the cruise lines to make the decision about requiring vaccination to board one of their ships.  If other lines see CDC granting Conditional Sailing Approvals faster to vaccinated vessels, then the other lines should get the point.

You're 100% correct about the government may not mandate it, BUT a private business can.  Cruise lines can make it mandatory for health safety for not only the safety of the crew, but for the passengers as well.  The question is, will they?

11 hours ago, caribill said:

Correct. But at the moment not even 50% of the population has been vaccinated or had Covid, so we are not at or near herd immunity.

 

Without herd immunity, those who have not yet been immunized and those in the 5% group for whom the vaccination is not effective are in danger of contracting the virus if exposed.

 

It is not that 95% vaccination rate is required for herd immunity as that is not the magic number (I have read anywhere from 70% to 90% in that guessing game), but that until herd immunity is achieved those for whom the vaccine is not effective are not protected from infection as much as they could be..

Currently 25% of the adult population in the US has had at least 1 dose of a vaccine.

Disagree with this statement:

DeSantis said the federal government and the CDC had locked down the cruise industry for over a year and it was not reasonable.

It was definitely reasonable.  There was no way a cruise ship could've prevented "super spreader events" until there were vaccines.  HOWEVER, I agree now that people are getting vaccinated they can give an actual date as to when things can open rather than dragging it out.

7 hours ago, WonderMan3 said:

The problem is you are only 90-95% protected so unvaccinated people on a cruise ship with you (an environment we know is ideal for transmission of contagious viruses like Covid or Noro) do put you still at risk. Having a ship full of verified vaccinated passengers reduces that risk to an extremely low number. Not to mention the fact that if someone turns up positive during the cruise it could lead to a major shut down of that cruise’s operations up to and possibly including you being confined to your cabin, ports refusing to allow the ship to dock or the cruise being cancelled midway through its journey. So there is more to consider here than just you and your party being vaccinated. 

I truly wish everyone would realize this.  The vaccines are all offering great protection, but they're not a "silver bullet".  The need for masks will still be there for the foreseeable future.  Ditto for social distancing, but at 3 feet and not 6 now.  I'm not doctor nor do I pretend to be one, but the "Tunnel" thread has taught me a lot about vaccines and the pandemic.  I firmly believe within a year or so, IF 70% of the US population gets vaccinated (25% of adults already have at least 1 shot by the way), then masks will not be needed as much.  Mostly on flights and highly congested areas.

Having a ship of people who are ALL vaccinated, I seriously doubt there would be any outbreaks.  Never say never, but the odds are very, very slim.

Ok, let's say this weekend the CDC agrees to allowing cruising again in the US with the rule that all crew members and passengers MUST be vaccinated.  The logistics of it are tremendous.  Unless all the crew gets the J&J vaccine, it would be at least 8 weeks before everyone was fully vaccinated.  I'm taking into account some difficulties in getting the vaccines to the people, unless the cruise lines have a plan.

Once vaccinated, they'd need to get the people to the ships, get the ships ready for cruising, re-train, get food and supplies loaded, do a shake down cruise to make sure everything is operating properly, and then set up the ships for social distancing.  NOT an easy process.  Optimistically, that would be another 6-8 weeks.  So now we're in August.

BUT let's assume the cruise lines are already "ahead of the game".  They have the ships 100% ready and compliant.  They have the majority of crew members vaccinated.  Even assuming all of that, they still need to load the ships up, re-train people, and get the people to the ships.  At best, we're looking at mid-June.

I just don't see it.  No way cruising begins again in the summer.  I might be wrong, but there's so much to overcome.  This is why I keep saying October.  And that would only happen if the cruise lines are doing everything they can to get ready to go as quickly as possible.

Cruising can and probably will begin again this year, but most likely in the Fall.  

1 hour ago, deliver42 said:

I don't think the CDC will allow cruising without vaccines for passengers and crew.

Nor should they, IMO.

53 minutes ago, Pamster said:

This morning I heard "at least 6 months, could be much longer".

A lot of the assumptions (yes I know what what happens when you assume) that it could provide 2-3 years of protection, but they're merely guessing based on how it's reacting as compared to other vaccines.  I'd like to think that it's an educated guess, but we shall see.  I remain hopeful. 

Who remembers this?

4 hours ago, Gracie115 said:

If everyone on a ship is vaccinated........why is there need for anything else....it should be the safest place on earth....

Because the vaccines do not offer 100% protection for 100% of the people, masks should still be worn to protect those who might get infected.

14 hours ago, neverbeenhere said:

FYI: Vaccinated passengers could also be the source of infection for others.

But if all passengers and crew members are vaccinated, the effects are greatly diminished.  But this is why still needing to wear a mask is a good thing.

IMO, all cruise lines for the foreseeable future need to only allow vaccinated passengers and crew on board.  Period.  If only to show the world that they're serious about passenger health and safety.  Yes, this means no children temporarily until they can be vaccinated.  And mandatory vaccinated passengers and crew isn't a lifetime rule.  It's only until this pandemic is under control.  For now, this is the way it should be.

If people want to travel, whether by cruise or going on a land vacation, then they need be responsible.  Being vaccinated is the only way to get life back to normal.  If people don't want to be vaccinated for whatever reason they're giving, fine, but accept the consequences without complaint of not being able to travel where they want to go.

Personally speaking, I'm "halfway" vaccinated right now, as is my wife.  (Our second shots are in 2 weeks.)  We got vaccinated because we're both diabetic, plus my wife is over 65.  It's for our health, not just to be able to travel.  Being able to travel again is just a fringe benefit of getting stuck.  

As I read elsewhere:  Get stuck or stay stuck at home.  

5 minutes ago, 1965 said:

When many of us say we've had 6, 7, 8, 9, etc., cruises cancelled, we don't mean we had that many all booked at once. In our case we had one cancelled, so booked a replacement. The replacement got cancelled, so booked a replacement for it. And on & on. 

Same here.

I actually had 2 cruises booked at the same time.  Once for my wife's birthday (Aug. of 2020) and one for our 25th anniversary (May of this year).

The August cruise was cancelled by Celebrity and I got my money back.  The anniversary cruise (with Princess) I cancelled and rebooked for October of this year (with Celebrity), but cancelled and rebooked for Feb. of 2021 (with Princess again).  The anniversary cruise was all essentially the same itinerary, all going through Panama Canal.

I did very briefly have a December 2020 cruise booked as a "back up" to the August cruise, but only for about 2 weeks, so I really don't count it.  

Never:  Carnival.  My last 2 cruises with them were freakin' horrid.  I'd also never cruise with NCL.  Not a fan of how they handle "main dining".

Always:  Celebrity.  Each cruise I have with them is better than the last.  I was saddened that I had to cancel my upcoming October cruise with them (non-Covid related).

Try:  Princess.  My next cruise is with them and I do like how the ship looks.  I am intrigued.

Maybe:  Virgin.  No kids.  HUGE draw there.  May be a bit "too hip" for my tastes though.

2 hours ago, D C said:

That article seems to be leaning toward the pro-cruise side of things as well, citing the difference with hotels and other industries and how the CDC hasn't met their own timeline.   We can only hope. 

There's this one too:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/cdc-says-cruises-possible-by-mid-summer-as-tensions-boil-over/ar-BB1fmIxt?ocid=msedgntp

23 minutes ago, KWW88 said:

It is not the CDC job to keep cruise lines in business, rather it is to protect us, I believe they are doing what they are mandated to do.  I want to get on a ship as much as anyone, cruise lines need to help themselves better and stop whining.  Submit some type of a plan and stop saying we don't know what you want, just submit something, let CDC review and respond.  I don't need a "source"

Sorry, but the CDC has done a piss poor job of this the past year.  They allowed themselves to be far too politically motivated in how they did things rather than staying independent in how they actually perceive the science.  They rolled over and acquiesced to idiocy.  Now they're playing catch-up and trying to redeem themselves.

Too little, too late.

7 minutes ago, KWW88 said:

Fortunately, Vermonter won't be able to board a ship, stay home and enjoy a Green Mountain land vacation, they are lovely.

You missed the post where he said that he was apparently in the trials and has already been vaccinated.

6 hours ago, caribill said:

 

Even those vaccinated are not fully safe, even if these are a small percentage of those vaccinated. Even the best vaccine is not 100% effective.

 

Michigan officials say 246 people tested positive for the virus two weeks or more after becoming fully vaccinated – and three have died.   https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/health/2021/04/06/covid-news-new-york-maryland-open-vaccines-16-variants-spread/7097703002/?utm

They're safe.  Remember, efficacy is between 90-95%, it's not 100%.   But as the article also pointed out and you so graciously didn't post:   Lynn Sutfin, spokeswoman for the state health department, told USA TODAY in an email that the positive tests represent a small fraction of 1% of the 1.7 million vaccinated across the state. Two of the three deaths occurred within three weeks of completing the vaccine, she said. All three were 65 or older.

Vaccines aren't a silver bullet, they're to help us not get so sick that we're hospitalized and possibly die.  

1 hour ago, Marelaine said:

I check every day.

After two Celebrity cancellations and their decision to go to cruises of 7 days or less, we have decided to book Princess. I just found out that our 11/6 Panama Canal cruise is the first one scheduled for Crown. If she sails, we'll be on her. If not, I have booked the same cruise for March 2022.

IMO, I think the odds of you going are quite excellent!  

1 hour ago, beg3yrs said:

Nicely written post!

 

Regarding vaccination it's my observation (so it's not totally objective) that much of the push back regarding proof of vaccination is the method in which proof will be provided. In my opinion there seems to be a few camps, those that want a big technical method that's hard to fake but gives your data to those who can't be trusted and those that are good with the simple paper proof like the cards we use for other vaccines but could easily be faked.

 

There are also those who just don't want the vaccine at all which is their right (IMHO) but some are not willing to accept the consequences such as limiting their travel choices.

 

Finally, there are those who for valid medical reasons cannot take the vaccine at all. For them especially I pray the therapeutic research comes up with highly effective and inexpensive cures for those who do contract the disease.

Excellent post!  However, the odds of anyone being allergic to all of the vaccines is very remote.  Each vaccine has different ingredients, except for polyethylene glycol. So it's possible someone could be allergic to that.  If that's the case, then they're allergic to many vaccines, not just the ones for Covid.

By the way, I am not a doctor, but I have done my research on each vaccine to make sure my wife and I were not allergic.  Thankfully we're not.  This is when I found out about possible PEG allergies that some have.  So check with your doctor! 

31 minutes ago, zitsky said:

This seems to have become the Vitamin D thread.  

As in vaccinateD?

I would.  Also, I'd make damn sure that I'm vaccinated and that the cruise requires it of all passengers and crew as well!