Capitan Obvious

One thing that people need to remember, is that even when all of the port stops are cancelled as in the case quoted, you still have to pay port taxes and fees to the embarkation port and the debarkation port. These fees and taxes are not only for the port visits. Another point to consider: it is possible (however not probable) that a port may not charge taxes and fees. That could be the case, and if so, the cruiser would have no way of knowing one way or the other. Yet another point to consider: it appears that people think that if a ship doesn't dock at a port, that the taxes/fees are simply not owed. Again, we have no way of knowing if that is true. The cruise lines sign contracts with the ports, and the terms are dictated in the contracts. If a ship can't dock on a particular day, there may be a clause in the contract that still requires some payment from the line to the port simply for holding the pier space...something to protect the port from last-minute cancellations. We have no way of knowing for sure. We make a lot of assumptions with no knowledge of the actual facts. Heck, the whole point of this thread is "The Prima didn't visit Belfast, and our money wasn't refunded". Am I the only one who has noticed that nobody has been able to say exactly how much money was charged for Belfast so that we can say that this exact amount should now be refunded?

Any tax is always a government's confiscation of your money. No matter what snake oil pitch is used, it is always the taking of your money. One thing that governments take advantage of is the general public's lack of math skills. (There are people out there who actually think 5 is different than 4+1 or 3+2). For the government, nothing is better than their being able to take from you without you getting upset about it. It is to their advantage (advantage over you, btw) to hide as much information as they can. Their goal is to lull you into the "so the rate doesn't matter to me" mindset. You think because the tax is "included" in the price that it is somehow different, but a price of 5 including tax is no different than a price of 3.5 plus a tax of 1.5. You might be thinking "the price is still 49 Euro as written on the price tag", but the real truth is that the actual price is 40.83 Euro. They get 49 by adding on the 20% tax of 8.17 Euro to get to 49.

Woah. Lucky for you that they don't charge corkage for canned worms.

Not sure if that is wise since a lot of the confusion comes from the fact that people aren't educated as to the difference between gratuity and service charge. And people on CC aren't going to find out the answer because they afraid that it would show how wrong they've been, so we get cute snarky comments instead. Your suggestion is between semantic and pedantic? That is your concern? Pot-Kettle sir, Pot-Kettle.

In the FAQ section of their website NCL talks about gratuity/tipping and the DSC as separate items. They even go as far as to say gratuities are not required (which makes one wonder why there is a DSC if it isn't required). We'll stop what you call semantics (which is actually properly using the correct wording) when you can explain the difference between a gratuity and a service charge and tell us WHY the legal dept at NCL felt it was necessary to treat these as different.

Just for fun, look at it from the other side... The person at NCL responsible for this decision? As though such a person would be seeking advice from Cruise Critic "experts". Have you considered that the "decision" isn't made by a person at NCL, but is made by the legislative body behind the VAT? You don't like the VAT, fine, but take it up with the government responsible. Blaming NCL is only shooting the messenger. Every turn? Really? If that is the case, couldn't we (looking at the other side) ask why it is that YOU so strongly and consistently attack NCL at every turn? Not to mention the "Why do you sail NCL and/or spend your time on NCL forums if you have so many disagreements about them" question.

But your argument is built on misconceptions. First, the terms and conditions clearly point out that a VAT tax can be charged by certain ports/countries and that the guest is responsible for payment. It isn't just stated once, but it stated TWICE in the T&Cs. When you don't bother to read/understand what you are buying, it negates the "totally unacceptable from NCL" position. They can't FORCE you to read it. Of course they blame the countries involved...those countries are levying and collecting the tax. Why shouldn't they be blamed? This is like blaming your employer when the government takes taxes out of your paycheck. Talk about missing the point...FWIW, they ARE charging the VAT at source. The VAT is levied on each served drink, NOT on each sold package (again, this is the law enacted by the country) so NCL follows the law by collecting the VAT each time a drink is served. Free at Sea only awards you drinks without the drink charge. You still have to pay gratuity, taxes, etc...not to mention you have to buy an entire cruise just to get it. Are you really going to die on the "its not free" hill?

It isn't the DSC.The $22 is the price for two $11 drinks. The next line on the check indicates that it is the 20% service charge/gratuity that is charged (when you buy your drinks without F@S). I would argue that it is anything but obvious. If it was just one or two confused people I could understand your point, but the fact is that the vast majority of people on the thread have questioned whether or not F@S was present. The exact opposite of "obvious".

I think he is confused by my post (#12) where I pointed out that the VAT was charged on the drinks and then again on the 20% gratuity on the drinks. Obviously, the 20% drink gratuity is NOT the DSC, but that is the only post in the thread that even mentions the additional VAT charges.

JMHO, but then you should have just posted that educational warning instead of framing it like NCL wasn't giving you your free @ sea amenities. You know, a friendly "A bit of a heads up for my fellow cruisers...While it is known that Spain has a VAT on certain purchases, you should be aware that other countries also have their own VAT and you may find yourself having to follow the law and pay appropriate taxes while you travel". And that warning should have gone on a general cruising board, not just the NCL specific cruising board. Honestly, I didn't think it did, but when you hit us with the "did you see the picture" back in Post #76, I assumed that you thought it mattered.

I think what graphicguy is saying is that a) the reports from the OP don't reflect the personal experiences of others, nor does the OP offer a reasonable explanation for the difference, and b) that you have to be skeptical when "facts" are carefully curated and only released to promote a particular viewpoint. Yes, we all saw the receipt in post #1. But then we had to wait until post #44 for the onboard account photo. Did you look at the receipt pic that was posted with the onboard account pic? It is dated 27SEP, yet none of the charges shown in the onboard account pic share that date? Seems that some people only see what they want to see while others would rather see everything before passing judgment.

That is also inconsistent. On NCL, access to Cruise Critic is open and free to everyone...you don't have to use any of your Wi-Fi for Cruise Critic. There are a handful of sites that NCL allows you to visit without using your minutes. The Internet Cafe Manager can fill you in on the current listing.

That point would only be valid in a world where "discretion" and "optional" were the same thing. Technically, going against the grain an removing the charge would be the exact opposite of being discreet.

The reason not to focus on it is simply because our focus doesn't matter in this instance. NCL collects the DSC. The also collect the fare, the taxes, the cost of an excursion, the cost of a specialty meal, the cost of a watch from the gift shop, the cost of a spa treatment, the cost of a go kart ride, etc...and none of us has any idea what-so-ever of exactly how the money collected for any of these items is distributed after we pay it. No idea at all. Yet, we don't have endless threads about it like we do with the DSC. Why? Why do we pontificate about it to the extreme? We spend far more money on other things with one iota of care about where that money goes, but for some reason we have to know how much the busboy gets everyday? Our priorities are simply out of whack.

One of the tools used in marketing is using words with multiple meanings. Words like "Free". When you have the UBP, you are "free" to order drinks without the worry of getting a large bar bill at the end of the cruise. You have "free"dom from worry. Marketing causes many people to only see "free" as in $0 cost. I agree that it appears that this person doesn't even have the drink package, and therefore should change the thread title. What I really find odd is that there are TWO VAT charges. A 20% VAT on the drink cost AND another 10% VAT on the gratuity.

Maybe it is just me, but it seems like you'd expect a basic DSC question out of a newbie, NOT however, out of someone who has been on Cruise Critic for 15 years. I guess that there are some cruisers out there who keep their attention focused on every nickel and every dime.

Just an FYI, but the post you're questioning is nearly 9 months old. In case the poster doesn't return to address your question, here are a couple of posts confirming that this actually does happen.

Dup, sorry

I dunno. The VIFP loyalty program is designed to reward loyalty as measured by nights onboard. Which I believe it does in a fair and honest manner. (The decision on an economical inside vs an expensive suite is the cruiser's to make). If you want to be rewarded for the money you spend, then do all of your spending through the CCL credit card where they reward you for exactly that. You spend 3x what the other guys spends, and you get 3x the rewards. Again, in a fair and honest manner. You can have both. The funny thing about loyalty programs is that when they are successful, they will result in many people reaching the upper level status tiers. All of those Platinum and Diamond cruisers just means that Carnival has many repeat customers...which is exactly what their loyalty program is designed to create. All of this carping from people reminds me of a bunch of students, all who have received an "A" on an exam, arguing with the professor to find out who has the better "A". 🙄

When you overly "hedge" your argument, it simply raised red flags as to its accuracy. You want to paint the "all countries" picture, but when you hedge it with "practically", "other than", and "unless...otherwise" your point loses all substance. But NCL actually CAN offer the service. Not their fault when a governmental authority imposes a tax. But tax or no, the service IS still available to the guest. You suggest they should increase the price of the Free at Sea. By how much exactly? Isn't having each guest pay their fair share of the VAT the simplest and fairest answer? If not, what do you propose that would be more fair to the guests? The fact that a VAT can be imposed, along with the fact that the guest is responsible for its payment, is noted TWICE in the T&G of the Free at Sea packages. The guest agrees to those terms at the time of purchase. So isn't NCL already making their customers "aware of this at the earliest opportunity, including when buying the package"? If the customer doesn't read the published T&Cs is that NCL's fault or does the customer have any responsibility at all?

I don't see how the location for the source of the article matters at all. Laws are applied based on the location of the journalist. What we are talking about here is a US based company, sailing under a Bahamian flag, in Spanish/EU waters (which, the UK is not a part of). If the ship is operating under the jurisdiction of the Spanish government, then their laws apply. No different than if I buy an item in Washington County I only pay 6% sales tax, but if I buy it in Allegheny County I have to pay 7%. Don't be a jagoff about this..yinz should know better.

Well, it seems that you and I agree on one thing, but that aside... What are you actually saying here? You've admitted that you like to leave the casino to get your own drink from the Atrium Bar. So you have to approach the bar, order your drink from the bartender, and then tip the bartender once he makes your drink. However If you place an order with a server, the server goes to the bar, orders your drink from the bartender, the bartender makes your drink, and the server brings it to you then somehow you'll tip the server but not the bartender? Is the level or quality of work performed by the bartender somehow diminished? Why would the bartender deserve a tip in one example and not the other? Do you always nickel and dime like this?

Fair enough. Neither you or I ever suggested that someone can't spend their money how they want. Now you say there are plenty of brands/companies that you've had a similar reaction to? IOW, this is a repeating pattern? Perhaps you might want to consider the possibility (again, possibility) that this repeating condition could be more "you" then it is "them". I've only ever stated that I don't understand why someone would outright dismiss an entire company simply because of their personal dislike for a small percentage of that company's offerings. (and for some reason it seems to bother you that I have that opinion to the point where you feel you have to repeatedly counter it). Somehow, I doubt that any of us can find a company where we like 100% of everything they offer. So NCL has a couple of ships you don't like, but you like their other ships. Easy to just sail the ones you like and avoid the ones you don't.

That is awesome, but not the own you think it is. Looking past the fact that "sailed all of the other ships" and "sailed just about every ship" are NOT the same things, lets agree that you've sailed NCL a lot. Likely because you enjoy the experience. (at least up until the Prima class ships). Since you've got such a positive experience out of 90% of the fleet, it just makes it even more silly that you would walk away from something you enjoy simply because of a small minority of ships that you don't have to sail on. NCL offers a wide variety so that everyone can find something that they like, not so that everyone will like everything. If there is a restaurant on a ship you don't like, you simply don't eat there...go to the other restaurants that you do like. You don't stop eating because 100% of the offerings don't appeal to you. Again, I don't get the all-or-none, my way or the highway, stance.