Dolebludger

As I see it, here’s the problem, The Retreat Hosts are not given a written list of their duty requirements. And there is nobody on board to enforce these requirements. Retreat Hosts should be given written duty requirements, and on-board enforcement should be provided Repeat violation of the requirements should result in deportation. And Celebrity should be fined for advertising that the Retreat Hosts provide services they are not required (in writing) to provide. Because if they are not required to provide a service in writing, chances are they won’t provide it.

Comparing posts 556 and 557, it appears that there is no consistency on ships and cruises for SS service (butler replacement) on Celebrity. I may be a bit off, but when a poster reports a good experience and another reports a bad experience,I believe them both. Celebrity is a rather large line with a good number of ships. I see no evidence of proper management among the ships and itineraries. As to “Retreat Hosts” and their duties, it appears that they have no job descriptions and nobody to enforce performance thereof. I think this may be the cause of “service problems” in the Retreat. Of course, with fares running above lux lines, it matters little to me now, as I am booking elsewhere due to price alone.

At least in the Retreat, Celebrity is not offering anything close to a bargain fare. In fact, in a recent comparison of lux cruises I found Regent to be less costly, and to offer more perks. One of these perks particularly important to me is the included use and restocking of the mini fridge. Also, the additional perks included shore excursions and specialty restaurants. Air and pre-cruise hotel and transfers were also included. But air is economy (we don’t do that), hotels haven’t been rated well recently, and transfers are a bus — so we took credits and booked our own. This made Regent’s fare even lower than similar in the Retreat. There are no bargains in the Retreat, period.

We are like Lena 11033 (post 395 above) in that we usually cruise Regent, and will only cruise MSC in the YC. In fact, we will only cruise Celebrity in the Retreat — or did before the fare price hikes. No more! Our YC experience was quite good, though it was several years ago. So I will carefully read your review to learn how it is now.

I too am eager to read the final comparison. I must confess that it would be impossible for me to be objective. If I had been in a 161 square foot inside room with strange noises on a 5000 passenger ship, I probably would have jumped overboard! But there are more reasonably sized ships with a YC. We were on one (Divinia) with a nice balcony room and had a great time. You may not have read the post here about problems with drinks when booked on the Retreat. The drink package there covers drinks up to $17. So Celebrity raised drink prices to $19+ and surcharged guests for the overage (plus tip, of course) so I hope your review covers your experience with that situation, along with the included drink situation in the YC.

On 700 pax ships, it is very organized. But, of course, on those small ships, the entertainment may not be up to the quality of that on a large ship. But port access is great.

Thing is, you can never expect disembarkation and embarkation lines to be as short on a 2500 pax ship as on a 1000 pax ship (like Viking). And never take a 5000 pax ship if you want to get off and on easily at ports. We like to take ships about 70o pax or less on cruises where port access is important.

Yes, one reason many of us cruise in the Retreat, YC, or Haven is to avoid the mob in the MDR and other places. But on a ship as large as the Seaside, the YC dining and lounge might seem a little ‘mobbed even though the main ship would be worse. We found the YC on the smaller Divinia to be fine. And the still smaller Retreat on the Eclipse and Equinox to be great too. But our favs are ships with under 1000 total pax. To us, large ships do not cut it — whether on the main ship or in a premium lux part if the ship.

Well, we have to do so, because the Celebrity contract limits jurisdiction to FL courts, and most of us do not live there. For us, litigation in FL would cost more than a victory would be worth. So Celebrity (and other lines) get away with things it wouldn’t in Colorado courts. Until somebody knocks down the jurisdiction in FL courts provision, Celebrity (and other cruise lines) can get away with many things. So we have to rely on the track record of each line concerning cutting of benefits after booking. Right now, Celebrity’s track record does not look good, while that of other lines look better.

I think it is good, when I order something like a cruise several months out, that I can know what to expect and that there will be no additional negative changes to surprise me. And I am not alone. Example: McDonalds is successful. Not because their burgers are especially good, but because you can walk into McDonalds anywhere in the world and know what you will get. In the world of marketing, this is known as “duplication” or “standardization” . The problem now with Celebrity, with the current bunch of changes, is that those booking months ahead several months can have no idea what to expect. And there seems to be a new change every week on Celebrity, none to the advantages of guests. Scary for this consumer.

I liked the posts above contrasting what used to be good business practices to what they are now. Management goals used to be establishment of regular, repeat customers, and working to expand that base. Regulars cost less to keep (massive advertising isn’t required) and a strong repeat base produces reliable, predictable revenues in the long term which aids long term planning. Now, all that matters is meeting or exceeding quarterly revenue goals, without regard for impact on the longer term. Often, changes and actions that improve quarterly revenues have an adverse impact in the long term. In Celebrity’s case, there is probably pressure on quarterly revenues. While ships are sailing pretty full, many are using FCCs from the pandemic. These produce no new fare revenues. So it looks like Celebrity is panicking — trying to raise current revenue even in little, silly things (I.e., the cookie fiasco). And now the little silly thing is to surcharge guests who have bought AI drink packages. And Celebrity has raised Retreat fares above its real competition, which is the high premium and lux lines. Hopefully, these panic moves will all go the way of the cookie fiasco. And hopefully, Celebrity will stop making panic moves and cuts. Until it does, we all would do well to shop around other lines and select one with some confidence that we will get what we book. In the military we all were taught “don’t panic — that never works out well”. Perhaps those in charge at Celebrity were never taught this — or have forgotten it.

cve, were you asked for your card when you bought the drinks at WCB? Also, what’s the deal with the additional tip? Many are cruising with “grandfathered” included tips. Others are cruising with pre-paid tips. So the tips on overpriced drinks seems strange.

Let me clarify something here. I don’t expect spirits that sell in stores for maybe $1K or more per liter to be on any cruise line’s included list. Here’s an example. We drink lemon drop martinis, made from Grey Goose or Kettle One vodka plus lemon cello (any brand). We also drink Prosecco — the brands that sell from $15 to $25 per bottle. Also craft beer locally, but no ship has those, so Heineken or equivalent is fine. Now, if these drinks are included in the premium package that comes with the Retreat, we don’t have a personal problem with the drinks. But if they are surcharged, this alone is a deal breaker. I can get these included on Regent. But of course, the Retreat deal is already broken, as on Regent we get $1K room credit, some included excursions, included specialty restaurants, full included room service, included tips, included use of mini fridge contents which are restocked daily, and (best of all) a lower fare that for a SS.

I will not pay retreat prices and have to bring my own wine.

When I refer to Celebrity’s competition as being the lux lines, I was referring to the Retreat. Once, it was a 99% alternative to a lux line at about 60% of the cost. Not now. Other categories on Celebrity seem to be fully competitive in price and inclusions with other mass market lines. For those who want to book at that level, Celebrity is something that should be considered. We used to book at that level. Then we discovered that we were spending much more in “extras” and coming home in a bad mood. So we switched up, cruised less, and stayed home when we couldn’t foot the bill (which happened a lot).

I could list a number of businesses that made bad moves, putting the short term over the long term. They include JC Penney, Pier One, Bed Bath and Beyond, Sears, and too many others to list. They have one thing in common. They are no longer with us. It took a while, but they went under. It seems like every day, I read about changes in Celebrity’s program, usually negative for guests, and often after guests had paid for the cruise. This is no way to ”run a railroad”, or a cruise line. We are not booked on Celebrity and won’t be until (unless) this stuff stops.

I liked the posts above contrasting what used to be good business practices to what they are now. Management goals used to be establishment of regular, repeat customers, and working to expand that base. Regulars cost less to keep (massive advertising isn’t required) and a strong repeat base produces reliable, predictable revenues in the long term which aids long term planning. Now, all that matters is meeting or exceeding quarterly revenue goals, without regard for impact on the longer term. Often, changes and actions that improve quarterly revenues have an adverse impact in the long term. In Celebrity’s case, there is probably pressure on quarterly revenues. While ships are sailing pretty full, many are using FCCs from the pandemic. These produce no new fare revenues. So it looks like Celebrity is panicking — trying to raise current revenue even in little, silly things (I.e., the cookie fiasco). And now the little silly thing is to surcharge guests who have bought AI drink packages. And Celebrity has raised Retreat fares above its real competition, which is the high premium and lux lines. Hopefully, these panic moves will all go the way of the cookie fiasco. And hopefully, Celebrity will stop making panic moves and cuts. Until it does, we all would do well to shop around other lines and select one with some confidence that we will get what we book. In the military we all were taught “don’t panic — that never works out well”. Perhaps those in charge at Celebrity were never taught this — or have forgotten it.

People, we are not much in the way of wine drinkers. I drink beer and wife drinks cocktails on cruises. So, while I do understand wine drinker’s anger over pricing favorite wines over Premium package limits , my personal concern is what beers and cocktails (if any) have been ‘surcharged” over premium package..I asked this before, but didn’t see a comprehensive answer. So I ask, does this mess of pricing popular wines oner premium limits go to wine only, or does it impact beers and cocktails as well ?..

One thing I haven’t see reported — have there been price increases in beers and cocktails so as to remove them from full coverage with the Premium package?

S to S, I have certainly enjoyed your review of these two cruises. I look forward to your summary review of your comparison of the two.

I guess the question is, are you being surcharged for it?

All this is unfortunately very true. Celebrity has missed the demographic of those choosing the Retreat. Cruisers who so chose have been motivated by the fact that the Retreat offered much the same experience as smaller lux ships at what was a lower fare, while also offering access (when desired) to activities and features of a large ship. And the key was the inclusion of products and services in an uncrowded environment. Sad to see it go.

The reason I asked is that, the two cruises on which we visited the Retreat Lounges, I don’t recall seeing a drink menu with prices.

Just a question here. Has anybody actually been surcharged for a drink in the Retreat Lounge?

Of course, there is nothing we can do about all the cuts in service and inclusions, and fare increases, except "vote with our wallets" and book cruises on lines that still offer value. It can be done.