Question regarding tours offered by O

Okay, I am getting the message that one should arrange their own tours rather than going on O's tours. Is my interpretation correct?

If so who do you recommend for getting a private tour? We are doing the Athens to Istanbul tour May 11/2011 on the Nautica. We have book several days ahead in Athens and booked days after in Istanbul. Yes, one we are using O's bookings but the latter we are not. We are using a boutique hotel that was recommended to us by friends.

I have read through several pages on Oceania but could not find a particular thread on the entire cruise.

Thanks for the help.

Private is definitely the way to go IMO. Groups of 6 - 8 are best. No busloads, no guide holding a big sign, no name tags -- and you usually get to see things that the cruise line tours do not cover.

First, go to the roll call for your cruise. You may get suggestions there and find others to share tours with you.

If it is too early for an active roll call, go to the boards that cover the ports you will be visiting. You can use the search function "private tour (guide) Istanbul e.g." to get recommendations. Half the fun is searching and planning.

You can also look on the roll calls for any other cruises that follow the same or similar itinerary. See what those folks have come up with -- you will get lots of ideas.

Laraine

Are these boards on Cruise Critic or do I need to go to another board? I have been having problems with Cruise Critic since we restarted up the computers after our move at the beginning of the month.

Thanks.

All on CC

When you go to the home page of the boards, you will see a section on roll calls (go to Oceania roll calls) and then another section on ports (go to Europe).

Okay, I am getting the message that one should arrange their own tours rather than going on O's tours. Is my interpretation correct?

 

If so who do you recommend for getting a private tour? We are doing the Athens to Istanbul tour May 11/2011 on the Nautica. We have book several days ahead in Athens and booked days after in Istanbul. Yes, one we are using O's bookings but the latter we are not. We are using a boutique hotel that was recommended to us by friends.

 

I have read through several pages on Oceania but could not find a particular thread on the entire cruise.

 

Thanks for the help.

You should look at the excursions O is offering to give you an idea of what can be done at each port and the time frame it can be done in.

If you then look at each port you are visiting and google the name of the places nearby that interest you you will find thousands of links from what to do to tour guides, transport etc. Ask questions in the ports section of CC and sign up for your roll call also on CC

If you are interested in DYI private tours you should really look at booking your own hotel pre cruise as well.

When I looked at O's choice of hotels for our cruise I found them to be quite limiting in that you could find better hotels much cheaper in a location of your choosing. Try looking at Trip Advisor for hotels.

Also the prices O were charging was 4 times the going rate on the same hotels website for the same room on the same days!

We have only used Oceania's tours on three continents and generally have been VERY happy with them.

You should look at the excursions O is offering to give you an idea of what can be done at each port and the time frame it can be done in.

If you then look at each port you are visiting and google the name of the places nearby that interest you you will find thousands of links from what to do to tour guides, transport etc. Ask questions in the ports section of CC and sign up for your roll call also on CC

 

If you are interested in DYI private tours you should really look at booking your own hotel pre cruise as well.

 

When I looked at O's choice of hotels for our cruise I found them to be quite limiting in that you could find better hotels much cheaper in a location of your choosing. Try looking at Trip Advisor for hotels.

 

Also the prices O were charging was 4 times the going rate on the same hotels website for the same room on the same days!

In order to see what O is offering I guess I will have to fill in the guest information. The website does not give me much information yet. We have booked but not filled in the guest information due to the fact that we just sold our previous house and had to move quicker than we were expecting. I am still looking for papers that we need as I packed them in a safe spot and have not found the safe spot yet. I have a feeling it is in a box in the bedroom that we have not have time to unpack yet.

We did not use O's choice for Instabul but decided that since it is our 25th wedding anniversary we would take advantage of their offer of pickup, a tour and a five star hotel. Yes, I know I could get it cheaper but when we are arriving after traveling for over 18 hours to get there I would just rather be picked up and pampered without worrying about the fact that I spent more money than I needed to.

In order to see what O is offering I guess I will have to fill in the guest information. The website does not give me much information yet. We have booked but not filled in the guest information due to the fact that we just sold our previous house and had to move quicker than we were expecting. I am still looking for papers that we need as I packed them in a safe spot and have not found the safe spot yet. I have a feeling it is in a box in the bedroom that we have not have time to unpack yet.

 

We did not use O's choice for Instabul but decided that since it is our 25th wedding anniversary we would take advantage of their offer of pickup, a tour and a five star hotel. Yes, I know I could get it cheaper but when we are arriving after traveling for over 18 hours to get there I would just rather be picked up and pampered without worrying about the fact that I spent more money than I needed to.

There I three things you need to know:

#1 You will need to "fill in" the guest information on your booking in any case. Your cruise documents wont be issued, unless you do. You might as well get it done ASAP.

#2 The contracts for the tour operators are reviewed annually, so information about specific tours generally becomes available 6 to 8 months out (but NEVER more than a year out).

#3 Since this cruise will celebrate a special occasion, and since you want to be taken care of when you arrive in Athens, why not book an Acropolis View Room at the Grand Bretagne?

Their Concierge will arrange for a driver to meet you at the airport with an ASSISTANT who will actually meet you with a cart and remove your luggage from the Airline carousel, load the car while you get settled in, and get the bellboys sorted out at the hotel.

BTW, this will still cost you less than you are paying now.

http://www.grandebretagne.gr/

I second the Grand Bretagne -- and reserve a table for a special dinner in their spectacular dining room with Acropolis view.

The Grand Bretagne is perfectly located as well. Great suggestion, StanandJim.

You can have your TA book the best room at the Grand Bretagne and have them pick you up at the airport in a Mercedes and it will still cost far less than doing it through the cruise line. Think about it for a minute. This is a cruise line. If they book your hotels they will make money on it. Their profit comes from the higher price they charge you (per person, not per room) than what the hotel charges. Just makes no sense.

+1 - totally agree. We were fortunate to have booked using Starwood points and were upgraded to a junior suite in high season no less - love those *points!:D

I second the Grand Bretagne -- and reserve a table for a special dinner in their spectacular dining room with Acropolis view.

 

The Grand Bretagne is perfectly located as well. Great suggestion, StanandJim.

I agree that points are great and can go a long way. I had 3 cards with points I did not even know existed. When I started looking around, I discovered the points and had enough for 3 nights at a 5-star hotel in Rome. Fabulous pre-cruise stay!

I also calculate the difference between what I would have spent on an O excursion and what I do spend after studying the region, downloading Rick Steves podcasts when possible, and touring on my own. Then we use those funds for post-cruise days.

Okay, I guess it is back to the travel agent again. We are already paying the deviation fee for the airfare so it should not make any difference if we use their hotel or not. What about the ride from the hotel to the ship?

Okay, I guess it is back to the travel agent again. We are already paying the deviation fee for the airfare so it should not make any difference if we use their hotel or not. What about the ride from the hotel to the ship?

It's a twenty minute cab ride in typical Athens traffic. We always have the concierge secure a cab so that when we send down the luggage it goes right into the car.

Service at the Grand Bretagne is heaven.

Back to the question of O tours-we did the Athens to Istanbul cruise last year and used O tours-they were wonderful.There were never huge numbers on the tours and the guides were excellent! We did the 4 day trip to Cappadocia region of Turkey and it was incredible! Only 8 of us on the tour and the guide Muget, had been the official tour guide for Bill Clinton. We are doing Scandinavian Splendours in 2011 and plan to use O tours again, except maybe for St.Petersburg (where I understand you can't do back to back half day tours) Whatever you do I'm sure you'll enjoy your cruise!

We usually do a combination of O tours and our own depending on the port and what we want to see. I have enjoyed all of O's tours - husband just did one in Gothenburg, Sweden, for mackeral fishing and had such a good time he said he would have paid twice as much for it. We do our own thing most of the time. We have joined some tours set up by other passengers, some were okay, several were awful. We probably will stay away from those unless there are special circumstances. My advice is to do whatever makes you feel most comfortable and meets your needs. Do your port research and see what feels like a fit. Never mind what anyone else says or does.

Just keep in mind that if enough people don't sign up for a tour, it can be cancelled. This happened to us twice on O.

We did the Athens to Istanbul cruise and were glad that we had our own guides for Ephesus and Istanbul. You'll see more, be more comfortable, and will probably spend less. We learned this after using Alla for our private tour guide in St. Petersburg.

Below is a Cruise Critic link to the best discussion I've seen on tour guides in Ephesus and Istanbul. Be sure to read to the end. So many people shared their experiences.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1221993

You will pay less and usually get a lot more for your money with a private guide. The guide can tailor the tour for you, you can linger where you want to, and you will usually get to see places the ship doesn't even know about! Last year, for example, on the Amalfi coast our guide took us to lunch (a feast) at the home of a restaurant owner in a small town on the mountain with a view overlooking the water. Unbelievable experience. Friends of ours went to a local Sicilian winery - not offered by the ship. You are really limited in your options if you rely only on the ship's tours.

The private guides also add a lot of local flavor to the experience. You learn about them and get their perspective on local life. WIth a larger tour you lose that personal experience.

The only time I take a ship tour is if the distance from port to the destination is far and I am worried about missing the ship. For example, in Livorno we overpaid to take the ship's bus (no tour) to FLorence (2+ hours away). We were afraid that a taxi (which would have been much cheaper) might have gotten stuck in traffic on the way back.

If you are new to this, why not join a private tour that someone on your roll call is organizing? You don't have to do the research and you will get the unique experience.

Okay...I am in on this a little late...Please excuse me...I was away on a cruise!!

Here's my take:

There is no hard and fast rule on the "way to go"...

There are good points and bad points to all methods of touring in ports...

First, note that ALL cruise lines tend to use the same tour providers in most ports. Cruise lines do not really provide tours. They contract with local providers to supply the tours and each port has particular local providers capable of handling the demands and requirements of the cruise lines. So, for the most part, the shorexes you get with Oceania are really the same shorexes you get with Celebrity...or HAL..or Princess...or whoever...

If there's a big difference, it's usually due to:

1) The length of time in port on the particular itinerary,

2) The day of the week or time of year, and, most importantly,

3) The size of the ship.

These are the factors that dictate or limit what the cruise line can offer. The problem with a 600 passenger ship is that if, say, only one-third the people onboard go with the ship's excursions, you are limited with how many variations you can practically offer.

Let's take a particular port...say, Tallinn, for example (I was there last week on a Celebrity Eclipse cruise and did a shorex)...A good number of people onboard have never been to Tallinn and want a fairly straightforward city tour...Say 75% are in this "boat"...Say the other 25% wishing to do a shorex want something different (We'd been before and, on our cruise, opted for a 7 hour excursion that visited the nearby town of Rakvere and its castle along with Tallinn's Upper Town...but others may have wanted a tour to the Songfest grounds...or a purely bus-based tour...or something else)...If you only have 200 people on shorexes and 150 have opted for the standard Tallinn walking tour, you only have 50 people left to place into shorexes...You cannot practically offer 8 or 10 other choices...maybe only one or two...And, what if you offer three choices, but only six sign up for one of them? You likely cancel it...it's not worth the bus and the guide and so on...

So, the smaller the ship, the fewer the choices and the greater the risk...

That said, for a lot of folks, the shorexes are a good option...It's safe and easy...You don't have to deal with the logistics or locate the guide or find tour-mates...You sign up, you pay, you go...They make sure everything is in order, that you get back to the ship in time, etc.

There are also drawbacks...You don't have as much (or any) control over the itinerary and timing as you do on a private tour...You see a lot less because everywhere you go, you wait for 40 people to get on and off a bus...

Private tours ARE the "way to go" for a lot of us...provided:

1) You can find tourmates to help defray the cost,

2) Your tourmates are likeminded as to pace and itinerary

3) You can find a good, well-reviewed and reasonably priced guide

A great example of how well this can work out is my Rotterdam tour to Amsterdam last week...

The cruise line (in this case, Celebrity) had a number of offerings for the 9 am to midnight Rotterdam stop...but NONE of them went for more than 8 hours (and the drive to Amsterdam was an hour to an hour and a half in each direction). The most ambitious shorex included only a canal boat ride and 2 hours of free time in Amsterdam. None visited the Anne Frank House or the Van Gogh Museum--likely for the fear of getting a busload or busloads of people through those crowded spots within the time planned...

So, absent any shorex that fit my desires, I found an excellent, well-recommended guide capable of getting a group from Rotterdam to Amsterdam and arranged a tour for 12 that did a canal boat ride, visited the Van Gogh Museum, then split into two groups--one going to the Rijksmuseum, the other to the Portuguese Synagogue and Jewish Museum (for which our guide arranged for a separate guide) then reconnecting for a walking tour, visit to a historical Canal House and gardens, walking tour through the older sections and Red Light District (these latter parts including yet another specialized second guide) and a visit to the Anne Frank House before the drive back to the ship in Rotterdam. 13 hours. It all worked like clockwork with pre-arranged museum entries bypassing the lines. It wasn't easy putting it all together, finding the guide, getting commitments from fellow cruisers on the roll call, etc. But, it worked out perfectly...and we were able to do it for approximately 135 Euros per person including all admissions, not including lunch...Not really out of line with the shorex prices...

Of course, some ports have lots of local tour companies and it's easy...Other places have few...and what there are can be expensive...

My advice is to to check out what Oceania--or any cruise line--offers...See if it fits your desires exactly...if so, consider it...

Otherwise, check out your roll call and see what people are discussing...If there are groups being formed and one wants to do what you want...and there are guides or tour companies available, definitely consider joining one of those...

If you want to do a lot of work and take some personal risk, maybe do the research and try to put together your own group...But, take it from me, it's not easy (I put together groups and tours for Malta, Tunisia, Israel and Kusadasi for our Nautica cruise last summer and for Berlin, St. Petersburg and Rotterdam for our cruise this year)...You take some personal risk...Some guides require a deposit of some sort and you usually end up fronting it...You have to worry about people flaking out on you...Then, you might find out the tourmates that sounded great on the roll call are not all that in person...maybe they have walking/mobility issues...

Of course, when it works, it works...

Good luck...

Terrific post with excellent examples. Should be helpful to the OP and

others.

For me, personally, you couldn't get me on a bus with 30-50 people to do a shore excursion! LOL Fortunately I travel with like-minded friends and even when we travel alone we have managed to meet terrific excursion mates on CC. We've made some new friends that way. An added bonus.

You will pay less and usually get a lot more for your money with a private guide.

One more note.

This is not necessarily true...

SOMETIMES you pay less...

But there are lots of variables. Guides and transportation in some ports is fairly cheap, in others it's not. It almost always also depends on the number of people in your group. A private tour for two (except in Kusadasi, from my experience) will generally cost considerably more...A tour for four will cost a little more...

Six to eight people is typically the break even where the cost starts going the other way...

Of course, IMHO, it is often worth paying more...We needed to bump our group size to 12 to make reasonable economic sense in Rotterdam...In Kusadasi, we paid less than comparable shorexes doing a tour for just the two of us in 2006...last year, we could have one the same and got no added cost benefit even though we had four...Pricing can be different...Some local providers in some markets charge for the tour--and you divide it however many ways you have...others in other markets charge by the person

St Petersburg agencies will typically quote costs per person based on the size of the group...say $450 pp for a group of 4, $380 for 6, $350 for 8, $330 for 10, $320 for 12--diminishing returns for larger groups...In Italy, OTOH, we've had guides charge 600 euros for a van that seats up to 10...It doesn't matter if you have 2 people or 10, it's the same 600 euros...

Shore excursions typically include lunches and admissions fees while with private tours, those costs are usually extra...So, always make sure you are talking "apples and apples" when comparing prices...

Oh, one other note: in some countries--notably Italy--most "guides" you see recommended and used really aren't licensed to be guides...they are really just "drivers"...Italian law restricts what they can do--they cannot accompany you into sites such as the Vatican or Pompeii or other churches, museums or archaeological sites...So, for these, you need to hire an additional licensed guide...This also impacts which tours they "recommend"--they always push the Amalfi Coast tours since they can do most of it from the driver's seat...Of course, they have most people here convinced this is the best use of your time in this area...IMHO, it is not--Pompeii is by far the top attraction in the area...Capri has the most spectacular vistas...but the "drivers" will never push those (Of course, the Amalfi Coast tour--we've taken it as well--is still not bad)...

Again, good luck...

After a bit of research if the port is unfamiliar to us to find out what is a "don't miss" sight, we start off with the ship tours. If we find one or more that go where we want to go, leave us a little time for exploring on our own, and are reasonable in cost versus what we could do on our own, we pretty much stop there and take the ship tour.

A perfect example was Rio de Janeiro. We knew what we wanted to see -- Sugar Loaf, the Christ statue at Corcavado, a glimpse of the city ("window shopping" through a vehicle window, and a quick look at Ipanema Beach. The ship arrived in time to take a tour to Corcavado the first afternoon. We were not interested in immersing ourselves into the city after dark, so we enjoyed the ship that night. We disembarked the next morning and took the combination ship tour/airport transfer that carried our luggage in the coach while we toured the city, rode the cable car to the top of sugar Loaf and got out for a brief stroll along Ipanema Beach. It fit our needs perfectly, the bus was only half full, their was both a driver and a good guide, and we were entirely satisfied, regardless of the cost.

If the ship tours don't seem to fit as well, we will explore on our own, or arrange a private tour. None of the "group" private tours we have taken have really worked out well for us, some for the reasons Steve mentioned, mostly incompatibility in terms of things we want to see of sometimes, personality. It has worked out well for us on tours where we had previously met the others. We met a couple from Nova Scotia on our first cruise who happened to also be on our second; we had a great day with them in Barcelona, going to the Palau Musica for a performance, riding the HoHo bus and walking Las Ramblas -- but we already knew each other.

Sometimes a private tour is the only way to go. In Valparaiso, we had to get to the Santiago airport. Oceania offered a transfer/tour combo that included a stop at a winery, something we wanted to do, but it was a winery that specialized in white wine, and we prefer red -- specifically, among Chilean wines, almost anything from the Concha y Toro winery. We learned that winery was located about 30 Km south of Santiago, when we were approaching from the north from Valparaiso. We got a lucky recommendation from Leonid on the Oceania forum for an independent guide. We toured Valparaiso, had lunch overlooking the Pacific at a fabulous restaurant, the were driven to the winery, where we had an excellent tour -- and got to see the real Casillero de Diablo, the Cellar of the Devil, where 150 years ago, Don Melchor hid among the casks and made devil-like sounds to frighten his field workers from stealing the wine.

They got us back to the airport well on time, in a luxury model sedan similar to a Mercedes, with a private driver and a guide who had just returned to Chile from college in New York, all (including a fat tip, they were so good) for less than the cost of two people on the bus.

It all starts with research and knowing -- or finding out -- what you want to see.

Thanks everyone. We don't go until next May so I have plenty of time to look at O's offerings as well as other private tours. We have done private tours when sailing other ships as there was 5 of us and the cost was prohibitive using the ship's tour versus doing it on our own.

Neither my husband or I are into shopping, so when in Egypt and Israel we want to see the historical sites and not shops. We are spending 3 days ahead in Athens and will do that on our own and we have added 3 days in Istanbul afterwards when we will be on our own. We found a different hotel that is within walking distance of all the major sites, so with a Rick Steeves guidebook, we will do it on our own. We also know that we do not want to ride a camel (been there, done that) so that eliminates one of the standard tour options.

We did take everyone's advice about booking hotels on our own and yes it made a huge difference to the cost even after factoring in the transportation from the airport to the hotel and from the hotel to the pier. I am avidly reading the travel blogs before I go back to teaching my uni students this fall when I will be spending my time marking and preparing new material.

Thanks everyone. We don't go until next May so I have plenty of time to look at O's offerings as well as other private tours. We have done private tours when sailing other ships as there was 5 of us and the cost was prohibitive using the ship's tour versus doing it on our own.

Neither my husband or I are into shopping, so when in Egypt and Israel we want to see the historical sites and not shops. We are spending 3 days ahead in Athens and will do that on our own and we have added 3 days in Istanbul afterwards when we will be on our own. We found a different hotel that is within walking distance of all the major sites, so with a Rick Steeves guidebook, we will do it on our own. We also know that we do not want to ride a camel (been there, done that) so that eliminates one of the standard tour options.

We did take everyone's advice about booking hotels on our own and yes it made a huge difference to the cost even after factoring in the transportation from the airport to the hotel and from the hotel to the pier. I am avidly reading the travel blogs before I go back to teaching my uni students this fall when I will be spending my time marking and preparing new material.

I've done a little cruising in this part of the world including a Nautica cruise last summer that hit most of these same ports...so, if you don't mind, allow me to give you some port-specific advice:

Athens (Piraeus), Greece: Can be done on it's own, of course...but with three days there, I would really recommend hitring a taxi/guide for one of those days and touring the Pelopenese (Mycenae, Corinth, Epidaurus, Etc.)--some really incredible archaeological sites--even better than Athens proper...and Taxi/guides are not all that expensive here...even for just two people...We hired one in 2006 to do just this tour for only 250 euros...

Volos, Greece: The one port on your itinerary we haven't been to.

Aghios Nikolaos (Crete), Greece: Her, like us, you only have a short day...Private guides here really don't pencil...We just took the ship's shorex to the Palace of Knossos (the area's main attraction)...It also ensures you will get back to the ship for that early sailing...

Alexandria, Egypt: Many on our ship used this stop combined with Port Said to do an overnight in Cairo. But there is a dilemma here. The ship doesn't get in until 11:00 am...By the time you disembark and take the three hour drive into Cairo and check into a hotel, most of the day is shot...Still, many on our cruise did this to see the night "light show" at the Pyramids and to maximize their time in Cairo. We thought it a little expensive and decided to do a shorex of Roman Alexandria. Alexandria was nobody's favorite port--dirty and overcrowded and not as much to see as some might imagine. The "Library", BTW, is not the ancient wonder--it's a modern library...Thye Roman shorex has the main ancient sites...

Cairo (Port Said), Egypt: Here we booked a private van for 6 through Oceania...the price was very good and, divided by six, came out to less than the shorexes. We had them take us to Memphis, Sakarra and the Pyramids at Giza...Remember, it's a 3 hour drive each way from here as well!!! Do NOT attempt to tour Egypt "on your own"...not that safe. The shorexes--and our van as well-- are provided with a police escort.

Haifa, Israel

Jerusalem (Ashdod), Israel: You hit the jackpot here...When we did it, we only had one day from Ashdod--two is much better...We hired a guide for a party of six who met us in BOTH Ashdod and in Haifa. The country just isn't all that big...Even though some will recommend an "overnight" in Jerusalem, I don't think it's really all that necessary--it just isn't that far back to the ship. I would recommend using one of the days in Ashdod to do a comprehensive tour of Jerusalem and the other to visit Masada and the Dead Sea. there's just so much in Jerusalem...and Masada is incredible!

From Haifa, there are many options...We made the focus of our tour Megido and Caesarea...

Megido is the archaeological site upon which James Michener based his epic novel "The Source"...archaeologists uncovered something like 27 layers of civilizations here...it is also the legendary site of the "final battle"--Har Megido (Mt. Megido in Hebrew) has been translated as "Armageddon"...Caesarea is the ancient Roman port city built by Herod...another archaeological marvel...Of course there are other options as well...another great archaeological site that can be reached from here is Beit She'an...or one could go to the Galilee and the ancient city of Sefad or even to the Golan Heights.

One thing to consider in Israel in trying to form a private group for tours is the specific interests of prospective tourmates--There may be very different sites of interests to Christians than to Jews...Some may prefer ancient archaeological sites while others might want to see more modern things. Be very aware in forming a grou as to what everyone's interests might be.

Limassol, Cyprus: Here we had trouble finding a reputable private guide so we went with a shorex from the ship. Not all that excititing. Toured Pafos and some archaeological sites.

Rhodes, Greece: We made the mistake of doing a non-thrilling half day shorex to Lindos. The ship docks right across the street from the main gates of the city of Rhodes--which is pretty nice. Do your research and tour this on your own.

Ephesus (Kusadasi), Turkey: A guide is a must. Ephesus is a considerable distance from the port. We've visited twice and each time hired EKOL Tours. A tour for TWO is cheaper than any of the ship's shore excursions. With similar hours, we did an Ephesus tour with the visit to the Terrace Houses-Do not miss...EKOL....or any other local guide...can customize a tour for you.

Istanbul, Turkey: Yes, you can tour on your own...but we've hired guides here for at least a day each time we've visited since they are not all that expensive in Turkey and the commentary is worthwhile...But, also note that cross from the Hagia Sophia, there is a little booth that sells tours...Consider the half day boat tour up the Bosphorus...We've also done the tour of the Dolambache Palace from here...Other sites--the Blue Mosque, Hagia Sophia, Cisterns, Topkapi Palace are all short walking distance...I assume you are staying in the Sultanhamet...We stayed last time at the Sari Konak--extremely convenient! and...a lot of restaurants in the area...The time before we stayed at the Conrad...and although it was five star elegance, it was not convenient to anything...Also, consider the dinner show at the Orient House...

Have fun...