Azamara to build new ships ?

On Quest last week, both the Hotel Director (Captain's Table) and Cruise Director (disembarkation talk) made no secret of the fact that Azamara will "very shortly" announce an order for "multiple" new ships. The ships will be similar in size as Quest and Journey but carry slightly fewer passengers to allow for larger staterooms (specifically, larger bathrooms).

Floris

Thanks Floris! Looking forward to the announcement. :)

How was your cruise?

Are they trying to compete with Oceania, or Seabourn/Silversea/RSSC? Or something in-between?

If true, very big news. The product makeover of the current two ships could be a dry run/test marketing for the new ships.

That's very interesting, but one has to wonder if they are having some difficulty filling the two present ships, how will they be able to fill the new ones??

Honestly, these were my first thoughts as well. Especially since Mr. Pimentel advised in the Q &A that there were no such plans.

If this rumor is true, it’s great news. But with ships sailing only at 60 or 70% occupancy I do not see any logics in building new ones (so creating extra beds)

Let's wait and see if the good news comes out :)

That's very interesting, but one has to wonder if they are having some difficulty filling the two present ships, how will they be able to fill the new ones??

A new ship could be much more enticing than the current older ships and thus easier to fill (and be more economical to operate). You can't predict the future by looking at the present.

I wonder if the new builds are replacement ships as opposed to additional ships?

If they happen, I imagine they would be replacements although there would have to be a transitional period. Probably the same thing will happen at Oceania, Seabourn, etc. although they all have to claim they are keeping their older ships to ensure a smooth transition and continual bookings. Why would any of them operate older, fuel inefficient ships longer than they have to?

Why would any of them operate older, fuel inefficient ships longer than they have to?

The current ships are only 10 years old ... newer than some in Celebrity's and RCI's fleets.

Floris' comment re larger staterooms makes me wonder if they are gearing the new builds towards the North American market, and perhaps sending the current ones to an RCI European subsidiary such as Celebrity did with Zenith (and Horizon?) when it went to Pullmantur.

Obviously the above is not official, but anybody who has cruised with John Howell knows that he wouldn't menion something like this to a fully packed Cabaret Lounge if there wasn't some truth to it. He's been part of the X and Azamara family for a very long time, and actively helped design and launch the Azamara brand. I assume that the new ships will replace the current ships, but that's just my personal opinion. As to Azamara not selling out its cruises: our 24 night Singapore to Athens cruise was 100% sold out.

We were also on the same sailing as Floris but got a slightly different message from Cpt. Carl Smith at the second cruise critic get together that I was at. He said to us (as someone specifically asked this question) that while Azamara would love to add more ships, they had to first ensure that the Journey and Quest were sailing full and making a profit. He went on to say that the reality is that over the last year or so, nobody (he seemed to imply cruise lines in general) had made money. As the Journey and Quest are Azamara's "bread and Butter" the ships have to do well before any plans are put in place for new ships. He did say that any new ships would be of a similar size to the Quest and Journey to allow for access in the smaller ports and allow for docking in ports where the bigger ships an't go. He said that the next year or so would determine when and if new ships were added to the fleet.

I guess time will tell.

Deb.

We were also on the same sailing as Floris but got a slightly different message from Cpt. Carl Smith at the second cruise critic get together that I was at. He said to us (as someone specifically asked this question) that while Azamara would love to add more ships, they had to first ensure that the Journey and Quest were sailing full and making a profit. He went on to say that the reality is that over the last year or so, nobody (he seemed to imply cruise lines in general) had made money. As the Journey and Quest are Azamara's "bread and Butter" the ships have to do well before any plans are put in place for new ships. He did say that any new ships would be of a similar size to the Quest and Journey to allow for access in the smaller ports and allow for docking in ports where the bigger ships an't go. He said that the next year or so would determine when and if new ships were added to the fleet.

 

I guess time will tell.

Deb.

That to me sounds more like it (not that I am doubting the previous poster on this topic, just that this seems more reasonable to me).

Hi Everyone !

While I have no reason to doubt what Floris heard, and I want to believe it, I have my doubts anything is imminent. As I asked the question to Mr Pimentel, and he clearly said that Azamara had no current plans to build new ships.... I will believe it, when I see the Press Release. With that said, the Cruise industry is extremely tight-lipped about newbuilds, so anything is possible.

A positive thought : In Late 2007, I was told that Azamara already had designs drawn up for 2 new ships, which were to be slightly larger than Journey and Quest. If there is a chance of Azamara building new ships, the recent strength in the US Dollar vs the Euro, might swing the pendulum in Azamara's favor. Let's hope there is something to it. Time will tell.

Thanks Andy for sharing your thoughts on this. Together with the reading of DebsUK, who apparently does have a different reading with regards to what was shared on board, I suppose we can conclude this “NEWS” is only a rumor or interpretation by Floris. Thereby I feel that the ship’s management would not share this news with their guests without being 100% sure and with a press release ready to go out.

It would have surprised me if Azamara really would start building some new ships right now. In my opinion they have enough work to do and energy to focus on the current transition towards the Club and especially in filling up the ships.

Yes, this particularly cruise on which Floris was sailing might have been fully booked. This was offered; at least over here in Europe, for such a bargain that even staying home would have been more expensive.;) Based upon other comments and availability we can conclude that Azamara can use a little more occupancy at the end.

Let’s truly hope they’ll get this all in order and that there will be enough potential to really start building some new ships !!!:)

It would still not surprise me if there were a rebranding of other Ships in the RCI and Celebrity Fleets to Azamara. Although larger it is a far cheaper way of doing it......

Brian

It would still not surprise me if there were a rebranding of other Ships in the RCI and Celebrity Fleets to Azamara. Although larger it is a far cheaper way of doing it......

 

Brian

Hi Brian !

I've been saying this for a long time. Before newbuilds come, I believe there's a greater chance of Mercury or perhaps an RCI ship moving to Azamara. While that may not be the perfect solution, it would be a far less expensive way for Azamara to expand. I have to wonder about the validity of building new ships, when we hear reports of ships that arent sailing full. To me, its like the chicken and the egg theory. Wouldn't RCI want to see full ships, before they invest a Billion dollars or more in Azamara ? From a financial standpoint, one would think so.

About the only thing going for newbuilds is the ultra rapid decline in the Euro vs the US Dollar. It's hitting 14 month lows this morning. If the Euro keeps falling, It may spur many lines to jump on newbuilds. Azamara could then be one of them. Only time will tell.

Andy, do you really think the dollar versus the euro will be of that impact or importance ?

I believe the current decline will only be temporarly as the USA is more in dept than any other continent in the world. I suppose cruiselines will not take any gamble on this, do you ?

I think that the bottom line here is that despite what Floris was told ( and I have no question but that that was what he was told), no one really knows what is going to happen. Part of this is due to the fact that people have been told all sorts of things, all over the map, since the re-branding was originally announced.

I suspect we'll have to await an official announcement from Azamara and then perhaps, even take that with a grain or so of salt.

I think what they are and were talking about (we were on the East Asian itineraries and heard some of the same comments) was a sort of concept ship, just as the car industry has concept cars. They will never be made as first imaged, but elements in their design will be used either in updates or down the road in new cars. If an industry doesn't do this it will find itself far behind when market opportunities do present themselves.

Andy, do you really think the dollar versus the euro will be of that impact or importance ?

 

I believe the current decline will only be temporarly as the USA is more in dept than any other continent in the world. I suppose cruiselines will not take any gamble on this, do you ?

Hi Spirit !

Yes, I think it matters. I'm not saying Azamara places orders at todays prices (though Princess did 2 days ago), but if the Euro goes into a freefall, it could easily spur some orders.

It depends on where you think the Euro is headed. While I certainly respect your opinion about it being temporary, I feel that without some sort of multi-national intervention in troubled regions such as Greece, the storm could easily spread throughout Europe. We will see where it goes, but I'm nervous.

It appears that the world economic tsunami is far from over. It is plausible that another three to five years may be needed before there will be widespread, sustained growth again. One hopes for the best but should be cognizant of the possibility of the worst.

The shipyards were lucky in locking in the present buidling contracts (not yet completed) just before the economic tsunami. The years to come may plausibly be their payback time, in low orders, depressed prices and mass lay offs. Afterall, how can anyone expect to be immune forever? Perhaps it is just a time lag effect (ship building contracts to finished products take years), which may become more evident in the years to come!

There is also goverment subsidies involved in some European ship yards in one way or another,also if the euro is weak the raw material costs will go up so it doesnt follow that it will be cheaper just a thot

As with most tsunamis, the second wave is worse than the first. And it appears that the second wave has begun.

On Quest last week, both the Hotel Director (Captain's Table) and Cruise Director (disembarkation talk) made no secret of the fact that Azamara will "very shortly" announce an order for "multiple" new ships. The ships will be similar in size as Quest and Journey but carry slightly fewer passengers to allow for larger staterooms (specifically, larger bathrooms).

 

Floris

well there is obviously a disconnet between what the hotel director is being told by his boss Mssr Pimentel and the head honcho of RCCL, Richard Fain.

Fain and the RCCL board have no intention of ordering any new ships right now. They will complete the construction and delivery of the last two Celebrity ships and the Allure and then focus on paying down debt, not incurring additonal debt by ordering small, very expensive ships.

You only order new ships when your existing ones are full and posting profits, neither of which Azamara is achieving.